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The christian god is a massive hypocrite. He tells his followers to love and forgive their enemies, but guess who created an eternal torture chamber for his own enemies The christian god is a massive hypocrite. He tells his followers to love and forgive their enemies, but guess who created an eternal torture chamber for his own enemies ...

RussellRutherfo:
Thoughts of a man scared to receive the wages for his unrighteousness.

When your Uncle was arrested for being in an Igbo meeting (I don't know what became of the outcome) but what I am trying to emphasize is just as there are forces here in our physical realm that arrest and put individuals in places that they won't want to be in. How much the Spirit realm?!

Be on the safer side. Love and follow the LORD with all your heart and not like a foolish child against their parents egged on by some stubborn child on the street corner.

so wages of unrighteousness is burning somebody for eternity ... This attempt at mind control won't work

Spaxon:
Absolutely....

Lol... what I mean is that it's ok to not forget even after forgiveness.
Sorry....I should have made it clearer.

kingyakos:
How can a son of perdition make heaven?...
They can never make heaven.
Judas was the devil among the desciples of Christ and Christ is God in body form and Judas was the devil in body form.
Note that Judas and Peter committed same sin, betrayal and denial is same sin but Peter received prayer of atonement from Christ but Judas was already caused before his actions infact he was caused before he was born.
Judas is not of Original seed but of the serpent seed.

He was a follower of Christ too same goes for Demas, Ananias and Sapphire. So, don't say a believe cannot go to hell

Judas sin was that he committed suicide instead of asking for forgiveness like Peter did

phemmyfour:
He was a follower of Christ too same goes for Demas, Ananias and Sapphire. So, don't say a believe cannot go to hell

Judas sin was that he committed suicide instead of asking for forgiveness like Peter did

Bros we not talking about dead here, we talking about hell and where in the Bible stated that Peter ask forgiveness, even if he did, Judas also regret his deed .

hopefulLandlord:
Christians and their fear fuelled hell preaching again?

Hell always sounded like a cynical marketing ploy designed to make people afraid to leave or displease the particular sect. And it seemed to really kill empathy - 'god says they burn, they burn' doesn't make me think of someone being full of love and compassion and all that.

Eternal punishment for finite transgressions always seemed abusive to me. How can someone look at the idea of a being who would condemn people to that and call it love?

Even when I was a Christian Hell was just too weird for me to accept. Infinite punishment for finite offenses is an eye for an eye on steroids. Punishing people for disobeying nit-picky rules makes God an abusive parent. One reason often given for punishment is to teach the offender not to offend again, but if punishment is eternal then how can the offender benefit from this teaching? Jesus is supposed to be into forgiveness but forgiveness shouldn't involve eternal suffering. Hell isn’t redemptive, it isn’t leading to repentance, it’s simply pain for pain’s sake.

I love this quote: “Heaven and hell seem out of proportion to me: the actions of men do not deserve so much.”

and of course I get the rationalisation of hell by Christians saying its moral accountability and saying bad people go to hell;
that's nonsense and they know it!!!

If Yahweh is real and omniscient, that means he already decided that we're going to hell before he even created us. But if this omniscient deity allows for deathbed conversions, then it doesn't matter what kind of life you lead. You could be a brutal dictator who massacred tens of millions of people, yet still get into heaven if you tell Jesus you're sorry. Your victims could all go to hell for eternity if they never repented. That's how bleeped up Christian morality is.

Maybe Christians can answer a few questions for me. The Bible says that there is ONLY ONE way to get into Heaven: by accepting salvation through Jesus.

So it follows that the Christians who ran the Nazi death camps can get into heaven. But their 6 million Jewish victims must burn for all eternity in the pits of Hell. I've talked to many Christians about this and they just pretty much accept it.

My questions are:

1. How f***ed up do you have to be to believe Nazis can go to Heaven but their 6 million Jewish victims must burn? That's just sick. But Christians believe it. What the f*** is wrong with you people?

2. Why would ANYONE willingly worship a god that would act like that? Is it just a fear thing (better known as cowardice)? And

3. Even if you get into Heaven what makes you think you'll be safe with a psycho god like that running the place? What's to stop your god getting a wild hair up his ass one day and sending Christians to a place so bad it makes Hell look like an ice cream parlor? He used to like the Jews too. Or so the story claims. What makes you think you're safe?

Lol! Stop barking like a rabid dog and go and convert every nation to atheism, single handedly.Pathetic fool.

jesusjnr2020:
He did that because instead of repenting when He spoke to them in plain language, they hardened their hearts against the truth as you are doing, so He took that away from them.

That's why you can't still understand the truth despite all your hearing and seeing. You need to repent first before you can.

Jesus was not sent to me but only to the lost sheep of Israel. He said so himself.
I can't believe you'd agree that Jesus could wish some not understand his message so as not to be forgiven!

Well, anything goes in the Bible.

AZControversial:
Lol... what I mean is that it's ok to not forget even after forgiveness.
Sorry....I should have made it clearer.

Won't that result to still nursing the hurting feeling of the offender?

Spaxon:
Won't that result to still nursing the hurting feeling of the offender?

You mentioned something about scars. And just like them, offenses come in varying degrees. Some, you'll forget. Others, you will not.
You can choose to ignore a scar but in truth, you'll almost never forget how it came to be.

If you're a Christian and you remember the story of the unforgiving servant, the lesson there is that God too will remind you of your offenses if you do not forgive your neighbour.

The essence of forgiveness is mainly to avoid revenge.
Remembering, however, doesn't always mean you still hold a grudge, it can serve also as a warning to you and ultimately.... the offender.

kingyakos:
Bros we not talking about dead here, we talking about hell and where in the Bible stated that Peter ask forgiveness, even if he did, Judas also regret his deed .

John 21:15–19 New International Version

15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”

“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

Judas committed suicide, he denied himself such opportunity

jesusjnr2020:
That's the reason why I emphasize the (keeping of) teachings of Jesus more than any other, because I know it would be the decisive factor at the end.

Just imagine how the pastor was so sure of himself that he was even arguing with an angel of God, yet he would have ended up in hell because he didn't keep Jesus' saying about forgiveness.

That's how many who are also sure of themselves today would be shocked to find out when they appeared before Jesus that their disregard for His teachings, as that of forgiveness would deprive them of entry into His kingdom.

That's why if Jesus says something once, i believe it ought to be heard twice. More so if Jesus says the same thing twice or more times, because then it means there would be no more excuses not to keep it.

Hence why I took His saying about forgiveness even more seriously, because even if He says something once, it is the Word of eternal Life to me, how much more twice?

Hence why at the beginning of my prayers, after asking for God to forgive my trespasses, I also ask Him to help me forgive those who have trespassed against me so that He would also forgive my trespasses.

Although it wasn't easy for me initially, I believe God has helped me significantly in this respect, because regardless of the extent to which my enemies offend me I don't pray for evil to befall them, or lay curses on them.

On the contrary when they have done something very offensive against me which I expect God to respond to because of who I am to Him, I would immediately intercede on their behalf, that He had mercy on them.

I pray for my enemies everyday (including those in this forum) as Jesus commanded me to do.

I can remember once after praying with a nairalander, she asked me why I was asking so much for mercy and forgiveness for others including our enemies. It didn't seem to go down well with her for obvious reasons, but i told her that it was what Jesus commanded for us to do.

Another nairalander, a brother here who had been ferociously attacked and falsely accused by his enemies here, told me that God said to him he was going to deal with all of them when his time was come.

But despite that I had suffered the same fate in the hands of those who attacked him, I pleaded with him to pray that God forgives them instead because they didn't know what they were doing just as Jesus had done. That wasn't a calculated response but a spontaneous one, because I have imbibed that culture to forgive my enemies their trespasses, and to pray for them as Jesus had taught us to do.

I'm not saying by any means it's easy to do, because it isn't easy at all, but the truth is that it doesn't have to be easy when one's life depends on it, in this case one's eternal life which is most important.

That's why I asked for God's help so I would do what He requires of us, so that after all is said and done, it wouldn't just be the single matter of unforgiveness that spoils all the work i've done on His behalf, and renders it meaningless.

Hence my gratitude to God, that something as difficult as the forgiveness of those who trespass against me, which is something He demands of me, is a quality I have been able to imbibe.

I hope for the sake of your eternity, you are able to do the same.

God bless.

Happy Sunday. If person offended you, and he did not ask for forgiveness from you, do you forgive them? Hmm I thought the issue of forgiveness comes when I refused to forgive my neighbor if he is begging me for forgiveness? Please clarify me here.
Slalom

Mftivi:
pay no attention to this thread, john 3:16 God so loved the world he gave his only son whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. It says who believes not who does not sin, it's impossible not to sin as a man that's why Jesus died so that not sinning won't be the qualification but faith in Jesus hence the reason Jesus told the thief who was hung beside him that he will take him to paradise just because the thief asked!

This verse you quoted is another debate we had, and one ex-Christian said verses in the Bibe are not words of God! He said think about it, if it was God telling us He would have said: “For I love the world so much that I gave my….” But the statement seems like someone was talking on behalf of God! We ask who? And he said [the] Apostles; it’s a matter of belief but many Christians are now doubting whether or not to believe these Apostles simple because they claimed to have received inspiration to write on behalf of God!

phemmyfour:
Your work colleague left a part out.

There must be Repentance, followed by forgiveness and then Acceptance (Believer)

Forget no 3, without 1n2

What’s the whole point then? He could have remained in Heaven and simply ask that we seek forgiveness and simply just forgive us… why come only to be ridiculed, disrespected, humiliated and die in the hands of the humans he has absolutely divine control over?

olawonder:
What’s the whole point then? He could have remained in Heaven and simply ask that we seek forgiveness and simply just forgive us… why come only to be ridiculed, disrespected, humiliated and die in the hands of the humans he has absolutely divine control over?

Without shedding of blood, atonement for sin isn't complete

Heb9:12
Infact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

olawonder:
This verse you quoted is another debate we had, and one ex-Christian said verses in the Bibe are not words of God! He said think about it, if it was God telling us He would have said: “For I love the world so much that I gave my….” But the statement seems like someone was talking on behalf of God! We ask who? And he said [the] Apostles; it’s a matter of belief but many Christians are now doubting whether or not to believe these Apostles simple because they claimed to have received inspiration to write on behalf of God!

You don't even understand the scripture

That was Jesus talking about God's plan to Nicodemus

At least, if you want to argue, understand the scripture first.

Wao

jesusjnr2020:
Unforgiveness has taken even some of the least expected souls to hell.

Only a few of such ones have been fortunate to have escaped hell, just because they were given a second chance to make amends.

One of them was the founder of the RCCG, Rev Josiah Olufemi Akindayomi. After he first died, he was told his portion was hell because of the same unforgiveness. So it took another opportunity of life, for him to come back do the right thing, and forgive those who trespassed against him as Jesus had instructed, for him not to end up there.

Another was a pastor who goes by the name of Daniel Ekechukwu. Below is an excerpt of his own testimony after he was sent back to earth from hell to warn men that hell was real:

"The angel said to me, 'Daniel, if the book of your life was to be closed today, this would be your portion.' This was completely shattering news to me. I said to the angel, 'No. I am a pastor. I am a child of God. I am born again. And I have preached all over this country.' The angel said sternly, 'Enough, Daniel. On the way to the first hospital you were asking God to forgive you. But you would not forgive your wife. Therefore your sins have not been forgiven. It is a matter of reaping what you have sown. You cannot show unforgiveness to your wife, and reap forgiveness from God.'
'I realized that the judgment was true for me, because I was angry with my wife, and I believed. God judged my heart so the angel said to me that, since I did not forgive my wife, I was not forgiven. I was crying, and said, "See how I destroyed my soul." While I was shouting and crying, I was afraid, and was covered in my own tears. I experienced panic because of the horror of Hell. If God wanted to send me to Hell, then nothing could prevent Him. While we were discussing this thousands of people were being sent to Hell.'"

Now these are instances we only came to know about because they were given a second chance to right their wrongs, so just imagine how many pastors and christians that we don't know about, who are in hell today just because they did not heed the sayings of Jesus concerning forgiveness?

God bless.

phemmyfour:
John 21:15–19 New International Version

15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”

“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

Judas committed suicide, he denied himself such opportunity

I love u is not same as forgive me. The fact is that Peter sin for denying Christ but his sin was atoned for by Christ on the Cross but Judas was a son of perdition, in other words he was of the devil among the desciples of Christ so there is no forgiveness, no atonement for the devil and his seed.

kingyakos:
I love u is not same as forgive me. The fact is that Peter sin for denying Christ but his sin was atoned for by Christ on the Cross but Judas was a son of perdition, in other words he was of the devil among the desciples of Christ so there is no forgiveness, no atonement for the devil and his seed.

comprehension= 0

phemmyfour:
comprehension= 0

Spiritual insight=0

And what if there was no Hell?

phemmyfour:
You don't even understand the scripture

That was Jesus talking about God's plan to Nicodemus

At least, if you want to argue, understand the scripture first.

Yes, I don’t understand the scriptures… it’s definitely no for everybody because for me it’s too complicated and contradictory. So I stick to being a Muslim, simple enough and my heart is filled with contentment and peace!

phemmyfour:
Without shedding of blood, atonement for sin isn't complete

Heb9:12
Infact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

At what point did God decided this? What happens to all of the humans who sinned before the blood of Christ was used for the later progenies’ sins?

olawonder:
At what point did God decided this? What happens to all of the humans who sinned before the blood of Christ was used for the later progenies’ sins?

lol, animal blood were used according to the law. So, those under the law then were saved by the law
But animal's blood wasn't good enough in God's eye, hence he sent his only begotten son...and his blood replaced the blood of an animal as atonement for sin for both saved under the law and under the grace.


Leviticus 17:11

11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

olawonder:
Yes, I don’t understand the scriptures… it’s definitely no for everybody because for me it’s too complicated and contradictory. So I stick to being a Muslim, simple enough and my heart is filled with contentment and peace!

Then stick to your religion instead of arguing about what you don't understand.

I would rather follow this path than go for a violent religion in the name of defending their god...a dead one for that matter

I want to be unforgiven

phemmyfour:
lol, animal blood were used according to the law. So, those under the law then were saved by the law
But animal's blood wasn't good enough in God's eye, hence he sent his only begotten son...and his blood replaced the blood of an animal as atonement for sin for both saved under the law and under the grace.


Leviticus 17:11

11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

Good luck!

Someone with unrightful baptism will go to hell fight, mark 16 vs 15-16

Elock1:
so wages of unrighteousness is burning somebody for eternity ... This attempt at mind control won't work

Try explaining to an ant that a human being is placed on life imprisonment in Kirikiri.

It makes no sense to an ant as their reality knows no concept of prisons and cells but this is a reality that can not be overlooked in the human realm if we are to have a sane and just society. The Spirit realm too has theirs and it currently makes no sense to you as a human till you get to that stage.

RussellRutherfo:
Try explaining to an ant that a human being is placed on life imprisonment in Kirikiri.

It makes no sense to an ant as their reality knows no concept of prisons and cells but this is a reality that can not be overlooked in the human realm if we are to have a sane and just society. The Spirit realm too has theirs and it currently makes no sense to you as a human till you get to that stage.

this isn't logical at all

And so whose laws (religion) Is the right path to liberation from eternal damnation?. . Thats the big question.

Topics like this leaves us going back and forth.

olawonder:
This verse you quoted is another debate we had, and one ex-Christian said verses in the Bibe are not words of God! He said think about it, if it was God telling us He would have said: “For I love the world so much that I gave my….” But the statement seems like someone was talking on behalf of God! We ask who? And he said [the] Apostles; it’s a matter of belief but many Christians are now doubting whether or not to believe these Apostles simple because they claimed to have received inspiration to write on behalf of God!

God wrote no verse himself except the 10 commandments which moses broke.

Elock1:
this isn't logical at all

And so whose laws (religion) Is the right path to liberation from eternal damnation?. . Thats the big question.

Topics like this leaves us going back and forth.

Simple.

The one who lived perfectly.
None other than Jesus Christ of the Bible.
If He lived it perfectly then what He all said must be true.

Can't be Muhammad. He lived so filthy that any sane person can be quite sure that he receives eternal damnation till date.

Princewell2012:
Happy Sunday. If person offended you, and he did not ask for forgiveness from you, do you forgive them? Hmm I thought the issue of forgiveness comes when I refused to forgive my neighbor if he is begging me for forgiveness? Please clarify me here.
Slalom

Sorry about the late response...

On this particular occasion Jesus didn't mention that to show that it's regardless whether they asked for forgiveness or not.

The major objective of this teaching, as someone rightly pointed out here, is for us not to be vengeful, so it's irrespective of what our offenders choose to do.

We cannot do their part for them, we can only do ours which is to forgive. Theirs is to repent.

Jesus after giving this teaching, also led by example by forgiving those who offended Him without their asking for forgiveness or repenting of what they had done to Him, so we ought to follow His example.

God bless.