BlueRayDick:


I no just know wetin happen to that Zaidu, he used to play really well. I hope the DM guy can come back before this tournament ends

We can finally bin ndidi if yusuf can stay fit, his partnership with onyeka will cook

iamoyindamola:

We can finally bin ndidi if yusuf can stay fit, his partnership with onyeka will cook

Chai, but injury really deal with us in that middle o. Ndidi got injured and his replacement still got injured. I just hope that Yusuf guy gets another opportunity to showcase himself once more at least so that he can get opportunity to play for bigger clubs in the future

BlueRayDick:


Do u understand how time value of money works? Everything written in that article was talking about a discoverey made 26 years ago at the current exchange and inflationary rate as at that time.

What Abacha alone stole within 9 years dwarfs whatever u think any of the presidents stole between 1999 to 2024. Now Abacha had ministers who equally stole, state military administrators who stole their respective states dry, retired generals like TY Danjuma who had oil blocks alloted to them, in fact some GF's of military officers were billionaires. U think Buba Marwa just handed over as Military administrator in Lagos and few months after he floats an airline out of legit money ?

Some of the things u even read about looting under military does not even scratch the surface. There was no freedom of press so the few ones u see pressmen releasing is based on insider info/snitching which the press publish at the risk of their life and safety

Outside abacha, does anybody here have any idea what any democratic president has stolen?
Like any idea at all?

Iamoyindamola put it best. The military guys nor send because nothing fit happen plus the idea behind military was to not give any bleeps.
These democratic guys atleast want to keep up appearances for life beyond presidency.

But presidents are never ever probed.
We have talked about certain governors because they are not above probing and yet we still don't scratch the surface of stealing.

Buhari ordered the printing of 21 trillion naira which translates to 50billion dollars give or take and how much was stolen from just that alone.
Should we also talk about the oil theft that has been done by presidents too.
Again, I believe the military from top to bottom has been surpassed by politicians in democracy when it comes to stealing.

nihilistjnr:


Bro, have you heard of any individual making cash withdrawals direct from CBN vault?

Abacha wasn't remotely interested in masking his theft through inflated contracts.

Abacha was sending ismaila Gwarzo to withdraw billions of dollars in cash direct from CBN vault and depositing the cash in his son and Atiku Bagudu's bank accounts.

How much would you estimate abacha stole from Nigeria?

iamoyindamola:

Yes na
Military are very corrupt jare, but they don't hide it like these our useless politicians

Exactly.. They don't hide it.
Politicians dey hide shege and we have alot more in number stealing the country dry

liveLongNprospa:


Outside abacha, does anybody here have any idea what any democratic president has stolen?
Like any idea at all?

Iamoyindamola put it best. The military guys nor send because nothing fit happen plus the idea behind military was to not give any bleeps.
These democratic guys atleast want to keep up appearances for life beyond presidency.

But presidents are never ever probed.
We have talked about certain governors because they are not above probing and yet we still don't scratch the surface of stealing.

Buhari ordered the printing of 21 trillion naira which translates to 50billion dollars give or take and how much was stolen from just that alone.
Should we also talk about the oil theft that has been done by presidents too.
Again, I believe the military from top to bottom has been surpassed by politicians in democracy when it comes to stealing.

Emiefele is literally in jail right now. I'm not sure how you can compare theft in a dispensation that at least pays some lip service to the rule of law to an era where Abacha was using CBN as his personal kolo.

Abacha died almost 30 years ago, and they keep still finding loot that was hidden somewhere, and yet his family remain wealthy enough to remain political elite in Nigeria.

J don't think you truly understand who Abacha was.

nihilistjnr:


Emiefele is literally in jail right now. I'm not sure how you can compare theft in a dispensation that at least pays some lip service to the rule of law to an era where Abacha was using CBN as his personal kolo.

Abacha died almost 30 years ago, and they keep still finding loot that was hidden somewhere, and yet his family remain wealthy enough to remain political elite in Nigeria.

J don't think you truly understand who Abacha was.

And for every Meffy we have an Akpabio who is the senate president. Balling shege.
Abi na wike or current Cos to tinubu.
Guy the stealing since we gained democracy has long long surpassed the military especially that of abacha.

liveLongNprospa:


Outside abacha, does anybody here have any idea what any democratic president has stolen?
Like any idea at all?

Iamoyindamola put it best. The military guys nor send because nothing fit happen plus the idea behind military was to not give any bleeps.
These democratic guys atleast want to keep up appearances for life beyond presidency.

But presidents are never ever probed.
We have talked about certain governors because they are not above probing and yet we still don't scratch the surface of stealing.

Buhari ordered the printing of 21 trillion naira which translates to 50billion dollars give or take and how much was stolen from just that alone.
Should we also talk about the oil theft that has been done by presidents too.
Again, I believe the military from top to bottom has been surpassed by politicians in democracy when it comes to stealing.

Presidents don't get probed but u can trace whatever was stolen under their administration to whatever ministry/agency that disbursed the funds.

Today there's a probe involving the CBN governor, there are reports of how he released FX when he ought not to, how he diverted FX to his allies and croonies etc. There was a probe into the arms scandal that involved former NSA Dasuki Sambo and we saw how some people even got credited to offer spiritual prayers for insecurity, how dem Dokpesi got funds from NSA office, How they diverted the funds to prosecute Fayose's reelection etc.

All of these are traceable because we are in a democracy. The only written rule in democracy is that the president will be allowed to walk while his underlining's are pressed for either refund of looted funds or forfeiture of properties they acquired with the proceeds.

In military government nobody probes anybody or anything. Shey na u civilian wan go probe a general that diverted funds? U go write petition today, u will go missing the next day.If any opposition party enters today and want to know how much Buhari government stole, they will probe and know....They will only avoid rocking the boat by not docking Buhari himself. At least we say Buhari government moved against Jonathan's Wife money but yet Jonathan was never docked.

The question u should be asking is How much does anybody know Abacha's ministers, state military administrators and senior military officers that worked with him stole? If u don't know it how do u want to claim current politicians can out steal them?

liveLongNprospa:


How much would you estimate abacha stole from Nigeria?

The guy withdrew at least 3.6 billion dollars cash from CBN in the 90s. Abacha was involved in every coup thay ever happened in Nigeria so he was already chopping from early. We've not even discussed kickbacks from oil companies and other foreign investors.

You're genuinely questioning how much Abacha stole?

Abacha literally made himself the SOLE presidential candidate of the FIVE different political parties that were contesting presidential election to be held a few months before he died.

You genuinely think anybody that has come since can compete with him?

Brah you must be really young. Don't say this thing outside sha.

Abacha was your favourite dictator's favourite dictator - the only African nigga that looted his country this bad was Super Frankie Macias of Equatorial Guinea.

nihilistjnr:


The guy withdrew at least 3.6 billion dollars cash from CBN in the 90s. Abacha was involved in every coup thay ever happened in Nigeria so he was already chopping from early. We've not even discussed kickbacks from oil companies and other foreign investors.

You're genuinely questioning how much Abacha stole?

Abacha literally made himself the SOLE presidential candidate of the FIVE different political parties that contesting presidential election to be held a few months before he died.

You genuinely think anybody that has come since can compete with him?

Brah you must be really young. Don't say this thing outside sha. Abacha was your favourite dictator's favourite dictator - the only African nigga that looted his country this bad was Super Frankie Macias of Equatorial Guinea.

How much do you estimate abacha stole?
I'm not talking about his dictator stories.
I'm talking bar.
How much do you estimate he stole?

nihilistjnr:


Emiefele is literally in jail right now. I'm not sure how you can compare theft in a dispensation that at least pays some lip service to the rule of law to an era where Abacha was using CBN as his personal kolo.

Abacha died almost 30 years ago, and they keep still finding loot that was hidden somewhere, and yet his family remain wealthy enough to remain political elite in Nigeria.

J don't think you truly understand who Abacha was.

He clearly does not understand that Abacha's family has been balling since 1998 till date and they are not broke despite all that has been recovered from them. His son has even been contesting for Kano governorship seat for a while now . No be leaf or paper he dey spend to mobilize o, na funds.

BlueRayDick:


Presidents don't get probed but u can trace whatever was stolen under their administration to whatever ministry/agency that disbursed the funds.

Today there's a probe involving the CBN governor, there are reports of how he released FX when he ought not to, how he diverted FX to his allies and croonies etc. There was a probe into the arms scandal that involved former NSA Dasuki Sambo and we saw how some people even got credited to offer spiritual prayers for insecurity, how dem Dokpesi got funds from NSA office, How they diverted the funds to prosecute Fayose's reelection etc.

All of these are traceable because we are in a democracy. The only written rule in democracy is that the president will be allowed to walk while his underlining's are pressed for either refund of looted funds or forfeiture of properties they acquired with the proceeds.

In military government nobody probes anybody or anything. Shey na u civilian wan go probe a general that diverted funds? U go write petition today, u will go missing the next day.If any opposition party enters today and want to know how much Buhari government stole, they will probe and know....They will only avoid rocking the boat by not docking Buhari himself. At least we say Buhari government moved against Jonathan's Wife money but yet Jonathan was never docked.

The question u should be asking is How much does anybody know Abacha's ministers, state military administrators and senior military officers that worked with him stole? If u don't know it how do u want to claim current politicians can out steal them?

as an aside -

a letter bomb was sent to dele giwa. It was addressed from the state house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dele_Giwa

that is what happened to anyone who had the temerity to investigate the govt durig those times.

izzou:
China no come play.

Since Africans can't think for themselves, help them think

150 Megawatt plant in exchange for unfettered access to your minerals

Elllllll-Hoeee-Elĺlllll

That English Unfettered access

E just be like make person just voluntarily sign contract that will take person back to slave trade era. Just like the way European Slave traders give African slavers Mirror and other petty items to collect African slaves to work their plantations.

TemporaryHansel:


Even at that, do you believe Monie point processed transactions worth $150 billion?

It's more than possible. It's called velocity of money in economics and is used as a indicator by central banks that consumption is taking place in the economy rather than tightening of belts or savings.

The same N1 can pass from civil servant to mechanic to street vendor to landlord etc within a year. Same money but different transactions. So the same N1 can account for N3 of transactions in the example above.

liveLongNprospa:


How much do you estimate abacha stole?
I'm not talking about his dictator stories.
I'm talking bar.
How much do you estimate he stole?

The problem with discussing with you sometimes is your tendency to try and argue without facts and/or understanding.

Do you understand the gravity of being able to withdraw billions of dollars (at least 3.6 of them) in cash from the CBN vault?

Not wire transfer. Not as payment for inflated contracts. But to be able to send somebody to CBN and withdraw billions of dollars in CASH?

Abacha was the undisputed ruler of Nigeria. He ran Nigeria like it was his household. If you're asking for estimates of how much Abacha stole so you can compare to any politician that's come since, then you truly lack an understanding of what the Abacha regime was. It was a kingdom. Abacha OWNED everything in Nigeria.

Atiku Bagudu, Abacha's bagman literally cut a deal with Obasanjo who was so desperate to withdraw some of that money back, that a person who should have been locked up for life, ended up with all charges dropped, became a governor, and Is now a minister in the Tinubu government.

GloriousGbola:



as an aside -

a letter bomb was sent to dele giwa. It was addressed from the state house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dele_Giwa

that is what happened to anyone who had the temerity to investigate the govt durig those times.

Exactly. The few people doing investigative journalism are doing so at the risk of threat to their life and their loved ones.

nihilistjnr:


The problem with discussing with you sometimes is your tendency to try and argue without facts and/or understanding.

Do you understand the gravity of being able to withdraw billions of dollars (at least 3.6 of them) in cash from the CBN vault?

Not wire transfer. Not as payment for inflated contracts. But to be able to send somebody to CBN and withdraw billions of dollars in CASH?

Abacha was the undisputed ruler of Nigeria. He ran Nigeria like it was his household. If you're asking for estimates of how much Abacha stole so you can compare to any politician that's come since, then you truly lack an understanding of what the Abacha regime was. It was a kingdom. Abacha OWNED everything in Nigeria.

Atiku Bagudu, Abacha's bagman literally cut a deal with Obasanjo who was so desperate to withdraw some of that money back, that a person who should have been locked up for life, ended up with all charges dropped, became a governor, and Is now a minister in the Tinubu government.

i am trying to recall if abuja law school was set up because gumsu abacha did not want to go to lagos law school

https:///AishaYesufu/status/1751916294255886356?s=20

atiku no send anybody

where is tht person taht said nigerians are wicked?

https:///Row_Haastrup/status/1751903819334668762?s=20

liveLongNprospa:

You honestly think abacha stole more than OBJ or Buhari or even will top Tinuke?

Abacha stole much more than subsequent Presidents but other arms of Government did not

There were no Senators, HOA at State and National level to dip their hands in the pie; and Governors moved in fear of Abacha while LGA moved in fear of Governors who were military men

In Nigeria unfortunately, the more people in Government, the more stealing and overall our current system has stolen much more than Military, just not on Presidential level

LiveLongNprospa

This is what Abacha was doing as early in his regime as 1994

The decree removing the jurisdiction of the courts – the Federal Military Government (Supremacy and Enforcement of Powers) Decree, No. 12 of 1994 – effectively blocked the legal challenge by the NLC and oil union executives against their dismissal by the government: on 23 August Justice Mamman Kolo in the Federal High Court, Lagos, ordered them reinstated until their case was heard; on 31 August Justice Roseline Ukeje said that the dissolution of the union executives contravened international labour conventions but on 7 September said she could make no ruling because the court no longer had jurisdiction.

After local human rights groups and Wole Soyinka, the writer and Nobel prizewinner, initiated legal challenges to the legitimacy of General Abacha's government, the authorities seized Wole Soyinka's passport on 22 September to prevent him from leaving the country to address international conferences.

On 12 September General Abacha dismissed the Attorney General and Minister for Justice, Dr Olu Onagoruwa, after he publicly said that the decrees swept away Nigerians' liberties and had been promulgated without his knowledge.

On 28 September General Abacha dropped the pretence that civilians had any power within his government and increased the size of the Provisional Ruling Council to include more senior military commanders, excluding all civilian government ministers and allowing observer status only to the Secretary to the Government and the new Attorney General. The next day the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Baba Gana Kingibe, continued to proclaim the government's commitment to democracy in a speech to the United Nations General Assembly in which he confirmed Nigeria's bid for permanent membership of the UN Security Council.

On 17 October General Abacha dismissed the Minister of Finance, Kalu Idika-Kalu, who had apparently opposed fixed and unrealistic exchange rates for the Nigerian naira, the military government's lack of financial discipline and a 300 per cent fuel price increase

Abacha decreed that court had no jurisdiction to judge him, sacked the AGF, sacked the finance minister.

That's the kind if person you want to ask how much he stole?

Ibime:


Abacha stole much more than subsequent Presidents but other arms of Government did not

There were no Senators, HOA at State and National level to dip their hands in the pie; and Governors moved in fear of Abacha while LGA moved in fear of Governors who were military men

In Nigeria unfortunately, the more people in Government, the more stealing and overall our current system has stolen much more than Military, just not on Presidential level

To be honest, I'm not even sure I agree with this. Abacha moved an estimated 5 billion dollars that we know of in the 90s. By the time you account for inflation, then acvount for asset theft as well,, afor example the Oil blocks awarded to Abacha family that I think FG recently paid them 1 billion dollars to settle...

You may be surprised at just how much that one man stole.

nihilistjnr:


To be honest, I'm not even sure I agree with this. Abacha moved an estimated 5 billion dollars that we know of in the 90s. By the time you account for inflation, then acvount for asset theft as well,, afor example the Oil blocks awarded to Abacha family that I think FG recently paid them 1 billion dollars to settle...

You may be surprised at just how much that one man stole.

Civilian government has too many people stealing with impunity compared to the military.

Per head the soldiers might steal more but there are just too many heads involved in the civilian government.

nihilistjnr:


To be honest, I'm not even sure I agree with this. Abacha moved an estimated 5 billion dollars that we know of in the 90s. By the time you account for inflation, then acvount for asset theft as well,, afor example the Oil blocks awarded to Abacha family that I think FG recently paid them 1 billion dollars to settle...

You may be surprised at just how much that one man stole.

but what he needed all these money for?

What kinda greediness is that ?

nihilistjnr:


To be honest, I'm not even sure I agree with this. Abacha moved an estimated 5 billion dollars that we know of in the 90s. By the time you account for inflation, then acvount for asset theft as well,, afor example the Oil blocks awarded to Abacha family that I think FG recently paid them 1 billion dollars to settle...

You may be surprised at just how much that one man stole.

You better believe it 100%

Which civilian Government can build a whole new City (Abuja), 3rd mainland Bridge and 3 refineries? That means there was still major money left after President has taken his cut. To build common 2nd Niger Bridge, civilian Government never fit reason am well for 25 years, compare that to a project like 3rd mainland Bridge or Abuja which were built at the same time by Babangida

In 1990 or so, my uncle who was Commissioner for health got the Governor of Rivers State sacked for asking him to pad his health budget by N100k. Common N100k oh, he let Babangida know and Babangida sacked the Governor. Governors were in absolute fear of President and were not doing too much, only President and top generals and their boys were chopping

afrodoc2:


Civilian government has too many people stealing with impunity compared to the military.

Per head the soldiers might steal more but there are just too many heads involved in the civilian government.

I'm not even talking per head.


I'm arguing that Abacha vs all the politicians that have come since in Abuja, is not even clearcut in favour of the Abuja gang.

Abacha thieving was next level.

Ibime:


You better believe it 100%

Which civilian Government can build a whole new City (Abuja), 3rd mainland Bridge and 3 refineries? That means there was still major money left after President has taken his cut. To build common 2nd Niger Bridge, civilian Government never fit reason am well for 25 years, compare that to a project like 3rd mainland Bridge or Abuja which were built at the same time by Babangida

In 1990 or so, my uncle who was Commissioner for health got the Governor of Rivers State sacked for asking him to pad his health budget by N100k. Common N100k oh, he let Babangida know and Babangida sacked the Governor. Governors were in absolute fear of President and were not doing too much, only President and top generals and their boys were chopping

I'm not disputing that.

What I'm saying js that I'm not sure Abacha's individual loot is less than the combined efforts of the contemporary looters of the last say 25 years.

That guy was a demon.

Ibime:


Abacha stole much more than subsequent Presidents but other arms of Government did not

There were no Senators, HOA at State and National level to dip their hands in the pie; and Governors moved in fear of Abacha while LGA moved in fear of Governors who were military men

In Nigeria unfortunately, the more people in Government, the more stealing and overall our current system has stolen much more than Military, just not on Presidential level

This is the same thing happening in the middle East. There is corruption, but since it is a monarchy the rate of lifetime theft is not the same as rate of term theft

nihilistjnr:


I'm not disputing that.

What I'm saying js that I'm not sure Abacha's individual loot is less than the combined efforts of the contemporary looters of the last say 25 years.

That guy was a demon.

This is my believe too. The fact that he can withdraw millions of dollars from CBN vault with no checks and balances, no court that can challenge him is enough for one to imagine the level of looting he undertook with few of his trusted military guys helping themselves to the crumbs.

I am very sure if Abacha had not looted as much as he did, even some of these present day politican like Ibori would not have been emboldened to steal like they did. U know there's a way u will just sit in ur caban as a Niger Delta governor like Ibori and u will be deeply vexed that Abacha a northerner looted that much from crude oil proceeds found in ur backyard

nihilistjnr:


I'm not even talking per head.


I'm arguing that Abacha vs all the politicians that have come since in Abuja, is not even clearcut in favour of the Abuja gang.

Abacha thieving was next level.

It is less. The guy na real titan of corruption but in the period you mentioned we are talking about hundreds of senators, thousands of reps, thousands of commissioners, local government chairmen, hundreds of ministers, thousands of ward councillors, okantable special advisers, senior special advisers, PAs etc.

Military government was smaller and cheaper to run. Corruption included.

nihilistjnr:


I'm not even talking per head.


I'm arguing that Abacha vs all the politicians that have come since in Abuja, is not even clearcut in favour of the Abuja gang.

Abacha thieving was next level.

Nah, you'll be shocked that Abacha stealing may not even be triple of GEJ or OBJ

Senate of today alone will cancel Abachas stealing, leaving HOA and the other arms of Government to subsume far and above the military era

There is a reason I spoke about PTF doings with Buhari as Chairman. That was under Abacha Government. Money for projects been still plenty to go around after Abacha and his men took their cut

If care is not taken, an LGA Chairman of today can slap a military Governor of those days based on levels