Well, 2 wrongs cant make a right no doubt. It isnt right. But i must say i grew up in Kano and i have witnessed in several cases where xtians are infact slaughtered and dumped in wells and on the streets.
It is horrible! A faction of muslims just feel it is their duty to fight and kill for the prophet but this isnt right!
God does not ask us to fight for him as well so the killings are as demonic and criminal as those peformed by some notherners in the north, mayb we shud not discuss this in this friendly forum of ours, dont u think?

@otitoloju

All of your queries can be answered in two words: weak leadership.

America for example has 50 states + D.C.  Have you ever heard of any clashes between states in America?  I haven't.

Why is that?

1. Religion has no place in America.  You're free to practice any religion you want, but don't impose your will on anyone.  Anytime you hand religious fanatics enough power, you're asking for trouble.  And that includes any religion, not just Islam.  America knows this.

2. Laws are laws in America.  Laws are a joke in Nigeria.  And basically, whenever you have a system where lawlessness reigns supreme, chaos is never far behind.

My view of Nigeria as a whole is that Nigerians are inherently stubborn about accepting facts.  Perhaps ever more disturbing is that Nigerians are generally dishonest people.  Things that we take for granted, things that basically have become a part and parcel of our culture, are things that would trigger headlines in developed nations.  For example, bribery, cronyism, state laws based on religion, lying, cheating, etc.

Sorry Nigerians if the above hurts your feelings, but that is the truth.

I've never been a part of any of the above, and never will.  I prescribe the same to all Nigerians.  That is about the only way we can come out of the quagmire we're currently trapped in.

One last point about Nigerians is that we're extremely greedy people.  Everybody wants to live a flashy life.  That's why people steal in government, irrespective of the oath they took to always serve the interest of the people.  At the end of the day, the interest of the people comes dead last.

What is the answer:  a strong leader.  

[list]
[li]A leader who does not take dictation from religious, or past military leaders.  [/li]

[li]A selfless leader who himself has seen it all and done it all prior to ascending the leadership role.  A rookie may be enticed by material things.[/li]

[li]A fearsome leader who is not afraid of dying for the sake of Nigeria.  Because without a doubt, attempts will be made on such a leader's life.  Murtala is a good example.[/li]

[/list]

We've thus far not had such a leader, but we will.

But until we do, we won't stop talking about it.

Carried!!! Walk and never stumble babsis, because the gods are wise and the ground is aja aja!

Miracle on the mountain
confusion via iliya coal engine 2001

this debate is interesting, which of these scenarios deserves a riot and maybe killing of people.

a, a cartoon is published in denmark and Muslims in maiduguri attack and killed Christians leaving many injured

b, dead bodies of Ibo's brought back from the riot in maiduguri, Ibo's riot killing Muslims.

ask me, i will say option 'b' is a justified reason to react.

Neither scenario deserves the killing of innocent people.

I know that, but one is a better reason for a riot.

Suppose someone asks, "which do you prefer: should I kill your mother? or should I kill your father?" and you reply "don't kill either of them". And the person says, "I know, but one of them must be better dead." Would you reply by saying "ok, my mummy is better dead" or would you run to the police and say "someone wants to kill one of my parents!!"? There is nothing "better" in this story.

So I strongly condemn the barbaric murder of entirely innocent Nigerian citizens just because of their religion or tribe. It is barbaric regardless of the reasons ascribed to it. The reasons pale into insignificance when compared to the severity of the crime. If they were marching the streets, burning flags, jumping up and down and screaming for TV cameras that would be acceptable. But murder is not acceptable. It is a crime punishable by law. Both the Hausa killers and the Igbo killers should be tried and convicted.

When I was in OAU-Ife, some cultists from a South-Eastern Univerity came to my school and killed several student union leaders and innocent students who happened to get in the way. Almost all of those killed were Yoruba, if not all. Almost all their killers were from the South-East, if not all. So why didn't we start killing the South-Easterners in our school who were students like us?

The action has already taken place. And their is nothing that I can do about it.

When two people fight and you want to settle them, you have to know how it started and then you judge and then make peace.

For your school issue their is no need to talk about that. Cult is Cult, they don't look at faces, it wasn't a riot, that is organized crime. Things some students have chosen to be involved with.Western students kill each other in their schools, just like eastern students, and some time they have cross border hit even people from the same village kill each other in school.

In a war people are the price of peace, let hope that more price won't be paid. That the heroes of this past riot (the dead one) would be the last.

About catching the culprit, i doubt that. I wonder who will be pointing who out. Who killed Bola Ige, not to talk of unpopular people.

Seun:



When I was in OAU-Ife, some cultists from a South-Eastern Univerity came to my school and killed several student union leaders and innocent students who happened to get in the way. Almost all of those killed were Yoruba, if not all. Almost all their killers were from the South-East, if not all. So why didn't we start killing the South-Easterners in our school who were students like us?

the issue in oau is cultism issue. so dont compare it to this one. more so, the killers are from different colleges from the west to the east. the target is the sug president but unfortunately they dealt with other guys which include africa, the 21 year old spoke guy. among those who are killed are 3 igbo guys, one of them my friends cousin. i went to their burial when they were buried at oau cemetary. so this is not the issue of races or ethnic and dont compare it to religion issue. this is purely assasination that went wrong.

I guess I got my facts a bit wrong. But anyway, I guess I have said all that can be said about the senslessness of the way of thinking that ascribes guilt by association. According to Thisday, the Onitsha death toll is now 100.

get your info right next time.

I voted 'Yes'. As a christian, the bible tells us not to kill, and not to revenge but to leave vengeance to God.

I don't think the onitsha crises was a christian vs. muslim one - if it was they would have killed Ibo muslims (just like northerners kill northern christians). From what I read in the papers, the violence was triggered by d sight of a luxurious bus bringing corpses of Ibos to owerri. The ibos then went on to retaliate. The govt. hasn't been sincere in clamping down on offenders in the past, so I can understand why the Ibos didn't leave it to them. The northerners had no reason at all to fight christians there, because many of them didn't know anything about the cartoon. They burnt over 30 churches with a priest in one. They burnt 13 children from 2 families in their houses. I think the Ibos are justified.

We should note that the Ibos didn't begin fighting the same day the northerners started killing christians. it was when they brought the bodies - they were fighting the relatives of those who killed their relatives. If the govt. and muslim society had done something concrete immediately the northern crises began, the Ibos might have not retaliated. But it was obvious the govt. wasn't going to do anything then. I wonder what they will do now.

Quote from Seun:
The muslims in Onitsha did not kill any Igbos or Christians, so the actions in Onitsha constitute gross injustice.  When you kill an innocent man or woman or child for one stupid , that is grossly unjureason or the otherst.


Men nothing against you Seun and no offense but every singly thing/word you said about this topic is bullshit! All you keep saying and preaching is one Nigeria, peace, and bringing some so called people to Justice! since when is justice practiced in Nigeria? when in Nigeria history had anyone involved in religious riot or killing brought to justice! did the Christians/Igbo in the north kill anybody? men to be honest with you, you sound smarter not saying anything![color=#006600][/color]

Like GL said this whole thing is not about christens/Muslims any more. it's about the hate the Hausa people have against the industrious hard working Igbos that's been going on for more than 60 years.

No body wants war, but if it's whats going to take for us to be free from the Hausa people, then I'm all for it. There's just so much we Igbos can take. And if tomorrow I'm called to fight for my Igbo land I'll be on the first flight to Nigeria believe that.

GL, if its not Christian/Muslim riot or crisis, where then did the luxurious buses got those corpses they brought to Owerri? Are they not innocent people/Christians  killed by northern Muslims over some stupid Cartoon?

Oasis,

sorry but I don't think your analysis is right. The issue here is just not weak leadership and the Nigerian situation can't be compared with the American one. Why?

1. America was originally a christian nation and was built on christian values.  While they believe in giving immigrants the opportunity to live happily in their country, they do not change their laws to please immigrants.  Nigeria is neither a christian or a muslim nation. We have to consider both religions in planning almost everything, and this isn't a very easy task.

2. Religion DOES have a place in America, but Americans are generally not as religious as Nigerians. Nigerians are probably the most religious mixed society. By mixed society I mean where both christians and muslims are allowed by law to practice their religions.

3. Many of the muslims in America are immigrants, who left their countries due to harsh economic conditions and won't want to cause any trouble that would jeopardize their stay there. American citizens or children born to immigrants in the US, who are muslims, grow up learning to love their country and to uphold their country's values/laws above foreign ones. They learn to respect the beliefs of others, just as their beliefs and that of their immigrant parents have been respected even though they are a minority.
Muslims here are indigenes of Nigeria and have no reason to fear deportation. (see the case of northern muslims in lagos. I'm certain that if you take these northern trouble-makers to America and give them a good life there, they'll be very calm)

4. You can't compare the diversity in Nigeria with America, or any Western country. We've got over 250 different tribes, each with their culture, beliefs etc. In many cases, you can tell a person's tribe just from his/her physical appearance. That's how diverse we are. It isn't so with Americans - with exception of immigrants from other countries and these are usually very willing to become Americans. They traditionally have one religion, we have hundreds. You can't tell an American's state by his looks - only by accents.

Thus, I don't think u should compare the case of Nigeria with the US. I think Nigeria is doing a better job dealing with diversity than most other countries. Take China or India for example, their laws put christians' - even christian citizens - lives at risk. The Islamic states are very hostile to Christians. I read today of an Iranian refugee who ran from Iran after being sentenced to death for forsaking Islam.

I believe that even the US would have problems if they had our kind of diversity, and our kind of muslim fanatics. Note that the US had to investigate some of their muslim citizens (mostly immigrants) after September 11.

In Nigeria, everyone is normally free to live where he wants in peace - except for the northern states that have decided to make the north a purely muslim society. I don't have the statistics, but I'm quite certain that there are not societies with the same christian-muslim ratio as we have in the South-West of Nigeria that have the kind of religious tolerance we have here.

I think the problem we have in Nigeria is that the muslims in the north have decided to make Islam the culture of the northern part of the country. This doesn't go down well with christians living there. this is evidenced in their insistence on sharia rule in states that have christian residents. The South-West, on the other hand, is peaceful because south-western muslims respect the cultures of their land (which were there b4 Islam came) and the religions of their non-muslim neighbours. To them Islam is a religion, and possibly their way of life.


I must say though, that it seems that nowadays, in places where Christians are a majority everything goes well .e.g. Southern Nigeria, US, Canada, UK, South Africa etc. But in places where Muslims are a majority, Christians are persecuted .e.g. Northern Nigeria, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt etc. In fact, it seems christians are persecuted wherever they are a minority .e.g. China, India, Isreal etc.

All you keep saying and preaching is one Nigeria, peace, and bringing some so called people to Justice! since when is justice practiced in Nigeria? when in Nigeria history had anyone involved in religious riot or killing brought to justice!

Why don't we fight to bring those people to justice instead of killing innocent people?

1. America was originally a christian nation and was built on christian values.  While they believe in giving immigrants the opportunity to live happily in their country, they do not change their laws to please immigrants.  Nigeria is neither a christian or a muslim nation. We have to consider both religions in planning almost everything, and this isn't a very easy task.

America has more christians, but you're free to follow any religion, or lack of it thereof.  Atheists have successfully changed things in America related to religion.  For example, schools don't say prayers anymore, a response to pressure from atheists.  Atheists are fighting to remove in God we trust from the currency, etc.  Would that be possible if America were a christian nation as you put it?

2. Religion DOES have a place in America, but Americans are generally not as religious as Nigerians. Nigerians are probably the most religious mixed society. By mixed society I mean where both christians and muslims are allowed by law to practice their religions.

It's not about being religious.  It's about keeping religion and the government separate.  There are very religious people in America, and then there are agnostics who prefer to believe only things that are palpable, not spirits.

America is a free land.  Religion has no place in government whatsoever.  In fact, look up this statement on the Internet: separation of church and state.  It's the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution.  If it's the law, it must be true, right?

I'm certain that if you take these northern trouble-makers to America and give them a good life there, they'll be very calm)

True.  More importantly, the American society is a positive atmosphere where people think of nothing but progress.  That kind of disposition rubs off on people.  Nobody talks about religion here, unless a catholic priest molests a boy, or muslims blow up something.

4. You can't compare the diversity in Nigeria with America, or any Western country. We've got over 250 different tribes, each with their culture, beliefs etc. In many cases, you can tell a person's tribe just from his/her physical appearance. That's how diverse we are. It isn't so with Americans - with exception of immigrants from other countries and these are usually very willing to become Americans. They traditionally have one religion, we have hundreds. You can't tell an American's state by his looks - only by accents.

You keep harping on the immigrants point.  The whole of America is a nation of immigrants.  You can't stake a claim to America anymore than the next guy.  The distinction is usually only in first generation, second generation, third generation, etc.  But all Americans are immigrants.  The true Americans are the native Indians.  All Americans are equal.  The only thing a naturalized American can't do is become the president.  But even that is going out the window very soon.  Look at Arnold Schwarzenegger: Austrian -> rich movie actor -> governor of mighty California -> and maybe American president one day.

You couldn't be more wrong about diversity.  Every tribe is represented in America.  Every country, every tribe.  Go to Los Angeles, you'll find mini cities of: spanish, chinese, russian, afro-americans, africans, caucasians, middle easterners, native Indians, jews, mixed races, etc.  The diversity in America is astounding.  You only have 250 tribes in Nigeria, America has every tribe.  

With the exception of gangbangers, this mishmash of people get along just fine.  We're all black in Nigeria, but we can't get along.

Thus, I don't think u should compare the case of Nigeria with the US. I think Nigeria is doing a better job dealing with diversity than most other countries.

Ah c'mon now.  That is an absurd statement.

When it comes to a diversity, America is it.  No question about it.

Religion, tribalism, greed, selfishness, etc, is what is dividing us in Nigeria.  Learn the facts.

If religion is de-emphasized in Nigeria as it is in America, things would change drastically.  That means no more Sharia in any state.  Every citizen in the counry would live by the constitution of the federal republic of Nigeria.

But who's going to make that happen?  A strong leader.

Listen, people are people.  Be they Nigerian, American, Iranian, Chinese, whatever.  There is a trick to making things work.  America is a shinning example of a society that works.  All we need to do is ask how they did it, and be prepared to adopt those principles.  I've got you started.  Take it from there.

Why don't we fight to bring the murderers or their sponsors to justice instead of killing innocent people?

What are you doing Seun?

You're getting really childish now, spamming your own forum.

Nigerian religious riots continue

About 10,000 are still sheltering in an army barracks in Onitsha
Violence is continuing across Nigeria where religious riots have claimed more than 100 lives this week.
A number of deaths were reported and churches and shops burned on Friday in the towns of Kontagora and Potiskum in the north and Enugu in the south-east.

Some 10,000 people are still sheltering in barracks in the south-east town of Onitsha after violence there killed 80.

Nigeria's 120m people are about equally divided between northern Muslims, and Christians and animists in the south.

The violence began last weekend with demonstrations by Muslims in the north against cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad. More than 30 Christians were killed in riots in two mainly Muslim towns.

More than 80 people were then killed in Onitsha in two days of reprisal attacks by crowds of Christians armed with machetes.

Burned market

On Friday at least two people were killed in the northern town of Kontagora by machete-wielding Muslim mobs. At least four Christian churches were torched, Red Cross officials said.

Dozens of people were arrested in Potiskum in the north-east, where Muslim youths burned shops, churches and houses.


Police have struggled to keep the violence under control

At least four people were killed there, residents said.

In mainly Christian Enugu, Christian youths attacked Muslims. One motorcycle taxi driver was reportedly beaten to death and a mosque burned.

Authorities in Onitsha say 10,000 people, mainly Muslims are still taking refuge in an army barracks.

The BBC's Alex Last in Onitsha says the Muslim Hausa market was the epicentre of the violence and is now a blackened mess of rubble, burned-out cars and contorted metal.

Many people were killed as they tried to cross a bridge. Witnesses said bodies were tossed into the river below, he reports.

The situation is now calm but the town is in shock.

In mainly Muslim Kano in the north, the spiritual head, the Emir of Kano, Ado Bayero, called for calm in a radio address.

"I call on all Muslims of this great city to remain calm and co-exist peacefully. We should not allow some flimsy misunderstandings to result in killings and destruction," he said.

Relations between Muslims and Christians - and the country's many ethnic groups - have long been tense.

More than 10,000 people have been killed in communal clashes since 1999.


BBC/ NEWS /AFRICA /NIGERIA

Thanks you oasis! this problem that we are talking about killing and slaughtering like it is sand, the main question is WHAT IS/WAS THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE MATTER?

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=12146

Check the
Cartoon Gallery

blood 4 blood

Its a pity, so that is the cartoon that is causing death in my country.

Someone should tell them that a Mosque was bombed in Iraq by fellow Muslims.

I think they should take there war there.

@ EVERYBODY

Has any one considered that this is actually good for naija. -- **its calls attention for dialogue which is what you do in a struggle for power**

For things to get better, they most often do get worse first.

So, perhaps, since the dialogue has been started *again*- b/w Xtians & Xlems - Since it has become apparent what is at stake,

maybe now the killings will stop and then we can all sit at the table.

Ibo's r only human, right or wrong, you cant just keep hitting a man on his face and expect him to accept it. Revenge is sometimes necessary - it gives you a --- aha - instant gratification. so, either them fundermantalists up north check their B.S once and for all, or we can just expect this 'll happen again.

well, there's another way, give everyone a gun and lets have the old texas style justice, *trespass on my property (like you wan come burn me house) and I 'll blow your dome off -- nuff siad!

For me I feel some organisation fuel this thing. The cartoon was drawn in 2005 in Demark

Why don't we fight to bring the murderers or their sponsors to justice instead of killing innocent people?

The Ibo's has done justice  in the Nigeria style.

Why fire 4 fire now. God / Allah did not ask them to kill?. Islam came out of Christianity the way Christianity came out of Jewish religion.

I think it was W williams who said "if we do not attack criminals, with weapons as effectively as their own, they will destroy us".

That said, I do hope that there wont be a next time. But if such killings were to occur again in the North, the ibo's need to take the battle to the Hausas. Oh yeah we ve beat them before on their own soil, we can do it again.

Divide what country? Hell no, they want one Nigeria, we will give them one Nigeria. They are stuck with us.

What we need to do is to mobilise a website or some grass root organisation that will help warn Ibo's of future attacks.

If the Ibo's were prepared, reprisal killings will not take place in the East. (By the way, they dont live in da east bc they love ibo's. They are there for Economic reasons.) We would have been able to fight back and really send those fanatics to their grave so that they can enjoy fourteen virgin MEN shoveling earth into their grave.

To those who lost loved ones in this mess, my heart goes out to you regardless of your ethnicity.

To the Ibo's who fought for their own brothers, I feel your pain and I probably would have done the same if my relative was killed.

To the muslims fanatics who spilled innocent blood, your own is coming. "Oneday, monkey go go market and e no go return". I hope your meeting with Mohhamed will be arranged sooner than later.

To those of you who are quick to pass judgement at the barbaric nature of the reprisal killers, let's have this conversation again when you loose a loved one in this kind of mess. If your not a Nigerian, I dont blame you. You will never really understand what I m talking bout. if only you were there in the 80's when we thought that dis ppl will attack and kill of us bc we are not muslims. and they almost did.

To our peace loving Christian and Muslim brothers, it s time to rise up against these religious fanaticsm. They are on the verge of destroying this planet but we cannot let them. Time to fight back for our freedom.

Seun, It s ok to be politically incorrect sometimes. You must be a perfect human being or you are really not telling us how u feel.