*shrug*

I am sure that they value your opinion as much as I do. So needless to say, they will continue talking

igbo boy:

you bring up yankee, how many times have you heard opposition bring up such a silly idea- oh dont travel by bike after 4pm and such? Your analogies are always warped.

That's a good one . . .  yeah, how many times we don hear opposition say something as silly as that and get cheered by the people? That would be real food for people like Steven Cobert, all that week, if it ever happens! That senator no go ever forget him face. ROFL

if will save peoples lives and properties nights travell should be banned completely!!

You obviously are only after the ACN nomenclature. Being your personal business doesn't mean it cannot be addressed as part of a dire security situation?

You PDP lovers are bi-polar just because of what you are after. When GEJ locked down Abuja and ordered businesses to shutdown after 6pm due to the fear of Boko Haram not one word was heard from you guys. You might say that is an emergency situation, but the fact is the PDP government told you where you could eat & drink, and at what time. If that is not your personal business, according to your statements below, then nothing is.

igbo boy:

Delving into peoples business is not the role of any opposition party, If they were talking about how to jump start economy, provide jobs and such i would say yes they are in the right, But when it comes to whether i want to travel at night or day by bus it does not concern ACN at all, Yes we know the dangers of traveling in Nigeria at night but that is people's personal business if they want to risk their lives,

you bring up yankee, how many times have you heard opposition bring up such a silly idea- oh dont travel by bike after 4pm and such? Your analogies are always warped.

You too dey find trouble. What is the difference between your last statement and my third phrase about the value of night travel to travellers, including lack of congestion at night. So, why do you have to give it as a hint to me

On your second statement, I don't know if accidents are more likely at night than during the day, but it probably goes both ways. Yes, the roads are deserted at night, but the lack of light means that those gullies (called roads) are likely to eat up your car b/4 you realize it.

As for the notion that it is general knowledge in Nigeria that travellers, particularly private ones, avoid travel at night there is no concrete data - just like with almost everything else. However, unless you are unaware of what is going on in Nigeria it is a FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE FEARFUL OF BECAUSE THEY PERCEIVE AN INCREASED CHANCE OF BEING ROBBED. Whether that is really the case or not depened on many other things. That people have the perception is however not in dispute. For example, during a recent trip to eople talked about that danger on a personal level on at least two occassions. There was even someone headed to Ilesa from Lagos, who on getting to Ibadan at 7pm decided it was not worth the risk to keep going, prefering to sleep in Ibadan to take off early the next day.

You keep asking about concrete data, but fail to realize that the data would only capture what actually happens - not necessarily how people feel about it and how they are preventing it. We call this problem "selection bias". In other words, if a lot of people already take themselves out of night travel then comparing data on robbery events between day and night travel may suggest to you that you are likely to get robbed during the day than at night - because the number of potential night events has been reduced before the data could ever be collected. So in this case familiarity with people's fears might actually tell you more about what is going on.

As for pointing out that not only ACN suggested this solution, it was not an excuse - as it was right there in the story that the FRSC has being advising commercial travellers to avoid night travel, confirming the fact that this is a general fear & thought process in Nigeria.

What we can add to the situation is not to seek to shut up the ACN - who more than any other party actually thinks about people's welfare issues (at least from my viewpoint) - but to contribute to the discussion on finding a real solution.

Kobojunkie:

I take it you do not have answers but are simply trying to offer more irrational arguments for what ACN suggested here, huh??  And I am also guessing you are of the assumption that attacks probably happen more at night than in broad day light on Nigerian roads .   

I don't know how well you know Nigeria but attacks and accidents happen during both night and day on our roads. My own experience was in broad day light and there was no other car stopping to help even at that.  There's really not been any data presented in over the last 20 years to show that the situation is worse at night than in the day --- no, not by even the FRSC. And if the FRSC is serious, it would at least start by addressing the main reasons why the attacks remain possible on our roads.

For pete's sake  . . . do you drive at night? Yes or no!!!By your understanding, do you think that your chances of getting into an accident increases at night, than during the day?  Please at least answer one question.

hint: Even Nigerian roads are deserted at night and so the roads are more open for drivers to ply at night than in the day.

koruji:

On your second statement, I don't know if accidents are more likely at night than during the day, but it probably goes both ways. Yes, the roads are deserted at night, but the lack of light means that those gullies (called roads) are likely to eat up your car b/4 you realize it.

So, instead of the FRSC to provide the lights, calling on people to suspend their night travels seems wiser to you?? /-:

koruji:

As for the notion that it is general knowledge in Nigeria that travellers, particularly private ones, avoid travel at night there is no concrete data - just like with almost everything else.

Where did you get this from?

koruji:

However, unless you are unaware of what is going on in Nigeria it is a FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE FEARFUL OF BECAUSE THEY PERCEIVE AN INCREASED CHANCE OF BEING ROBBED. Whether that is really the case or not depened on many other things. That people have the perception is however not in dispute. For example, during a recent trip to eople talked about that danger on a personal level on at least two occassions. There was even someone headed to Ilesa from Lagos, who on getting to Ibadan at 7pm decided it was not worth the risk to keep going, prefering to sleep in Ibadan to take off early the next day.

Excuse you? This FACT of yours has been a fact for about 20 years now. Stop pushing this as if it only became noticed two minutes ago, or when ACN opened it's mouth on this.

Again, during my college years in Nigeria, that has been the case . . . so I am not sure what this FACT will do here to help your cause on this. ACN opening it's mouth 20 years later, to decide to curbing the people's movement will be the best way to go about tackling a problem that has persisted in the last 20 years is, for lack of a better word, dumb.

koruji:

You keep asking about concrete data, but fail to realize that the data would only capture what actually happens - not necessarily how people feel about it and how they are preventing it. We call this problem "selection bias". In other words, if a lot of people already take themselves out of night travel then comparing data on robbery events between day and night travel may suggest to you that you are likely to get robbed during the day than at night - because the number of potential night events has been reduced before the data could ever be collected. So in this case familiarity with people's fears might actually tell you more about what is going on.

WHAT? If People FEEL bad about night travel then they DON'T Travel at night. Night Travel is not compulsory. However, their FEELINGS ought not to be used to HAMPER the movement of those who do not share the same fears. Is that is not clear enough?

There is NO SUCH THING as 'selection bias' in this. Night travel has never been for all -- it's been a choice -- it has always been just for those who have no problems with it. I chose to travel by night myself because it seemed a faster and more efficient way to getting around considering the bad roads in Nigerias. You don't just impose laws on a section simply because of the FEARS of another section, without making sure DATA/EVIDENCE backs up these fears. That is just moronic.

koruji:

As for pointing out that not only ACN suggested this solution, it was not an excuse - as it was right there in the story that the FRSC has being advising commercial travellers to avoid night travel, confirming the fact that this is a general fear & thought process in Nigeria.

What we can add to the situation is not to seek to shut up the ACN - who more than any other party actually thinks about people's welfare issues (at least from my viewpoint) - but to contribute to the discussion on finding a real solution.

FRSC is the body in charge of ensuring our roads are safe for our travellers. It is not for the FRSC to REFUSE to carry out it's duties but instead restrict people's movements instead.

To add to what makes sense, not encourage the senseless, OK?? This suggestion is senseless, and as Nigerians we ought to be against anything that curbs the freedoms of the people. Not seek ways to IMPOSE silly rules on people when the Problem is nowhere connected to them in the first place.

Dear Kobojunkie,

Hope this meets you well. I write on this 7th of August in the year of our Lord 2011.

First of all, it is my considered opinion that your reply to my earlier commentary makes too many assumptions about what I think about ACN's suggestions - and of course ignored the fact that you were the one pointing out the obvious to me. You didn't have to tell me or given me a hint about why night travel is of value to those who do it, particularly since those same reasons are among the ones I put up right in my original post about why the ACN suggestion is at best a short term idea.

Two, I put the idea of "selection bias" in simple terms hoping that you will not see this as somebody giving you an excuse. However, to you there is "no such thing as selection bias in this". FYI, this concept is a formal one among those who deal in statistics and this kind of situation, in which unmeasured actions can change the nature of your the data, is precisely where it is applicable. You are the one being moronic because you fail to take the time to find out more about a concept you might not be aware of, rather than dismiss it out of hand.

Third, if it was my cause to defend the ACN statement I would not have posted the article in the first place, knowing fully well there are people waiting to take advantage.  Instead, I am convinced that [size=14pt]open and honest debate is the only way we will find good solutions to our problems [/size] - people should not be afraid to state their opinion, even if silly, as long as they are prepared to change it in the face of evidence. I hope that people will be more honest in their commentaries, and pay attention to othersviewpoints when they make their own comments, instead of hanging on to one point without yielding, even when they are saying exactly the same things. An important part of any discussion, I am afraid, is to figure out the intention of the commentator in interpreting their comments. In this case, you have attributed wrong intentions to my comments - hence you addressing my comments from completely wrong angles.

Finally, it seems that you were just asking if anyone has concrete data to support this "fact", but you are now actually saying that it has been a fact for 20 years. Go and preach to the FRSC & the Nigerian people, not me. My very first post made it clear that I do not believe the ACN proposition as a sustainable solution, if at all, & I am sure they are prepared to re-adjust their thinking as long as we are moving towards a solution to the real problem. I commend the fact that ACN is not numb to the issue simply because "it has being a FACT for 20 YEARS". Certainly, neither you nor I nor PDP brought up the issue, even though a serious one - so we really have no right to be knocking ACN for paying attention to something that we seem to have accepted as a fact of life. That is the basis for my commendation, not the suggested solution.

Go back and read the very first post carefully if all these are not obvious - and you will find out that much of your complaints about what I have said about this issue holds zero water - I am aware that this suggestions annoys you every time someone says it, but you see to read posts with jaded eyes.

Yours NLDly
koruji - ESQ. (Attorney for the Nigerian Cause)

Kobojunkie:

So, instead of the FRSC to provide the lights, calling on people to suspend their night travels seems wiser to you?? /-:
Where did you get this from?
Excuse you? This FACT of yours has been a fact for about 20 years now. Stop pushing this as if it only became noticed two minutes ago, or when ACN opened it's mouth on this.

Again, during my college years in Nigeria, that has been the case . . . so I am not sure what this FACT will do here to help your cause on this. ACN opening it's mouth 20 years later, to decide to curbing the people's movement will be the best way to go about tackling a problem that has persisted in the last 20 years is, for lack of a better word, dumb.

WHAT? If People FEEL bad about night travel then they DON'T Travel at night. Night Travel is not compulsory. However, their FEELINGS ought not to be used to HAMPER the movement of those who do not share the same fears. Is that is not clear enough?

There is NO SUCH THING as 'selection bias' in this. Night travel has never been for all -- it's been a choice -- it has always been just for those who have no problems with it. I chose to travel by night myself because it seemed a faster and more efficient way to getting around considering the bad roads in Nigerias. You don't just impose laws on a section simply because of the FEARS of another section, without making sure DATA/EVIDENCE backs up these fears. That is just moronic.


FRSC is the body in charge of ensuring our roads are safe for our travellers. It is not for the FRSC to REFUSE to carry out it's duties but instead restrict people's movements instead.

To add to what makes sense, not encourage the senseless, OK?? This suggestion is senseless, and as Nigerians we ought to be against anything that curbs the freedoms of the people. Not seek ways to IMPOSE silly rules on people when the Problem is nowhere connected to them in the first place.

um . . . goodluck with all that but again, I stand in agreement with everyone else who sees this as nothing but a silly attempt by ACN party.

I don't know how well you know Nigeria but attacks and accidents happen during both night and day on our roads. My own experience was in broad day light and there was no other car stopping to help even at that.  There's really not been any data presented in over the last 20 years to show that the situation is worse at night than in the day --- no, not by even the FRSC. And if the FRSC is serious, it would at least start by addressing the main reasons why the attacks remain possible on our roads.

There is NO SUCH THING as 'selection bias' in this. Night travel has never been for all -- it's been a choice -- it has always been just for those who have no problems with it. I chose to travel by night myself because it seemed a faster and more efficient way to getting around considering the bad roads in Nigerias. You don't just impose laws on a section simply because of the FEARS of another section, without making sure DATA/EVIDENCE backs up these fears. That is just moronic.

My responses were typed in English --- if you have a particular phrase or statement you do not understand, it makes more sense that you ask me for clarification than attempt to play [b]TWISTER [/b]with my words.

On my comment on selection bias, again, I believe it does not apply in this case. One does not pull a "selection bias" argument out of thin air.


The 50 people who died last week on Abuja roads, didn't die because it was night time but because the FRSC refused to do it's job. I just found out that one of our church members had a family among the dead -- a 26 year old man, who died, not because it was night time(accident seemed to have taken place just before dawn), but because the roads are not safe.

I am not sure what you are arguing, but I see now, that you are fishing and really, don't bother trying to change my mind .  .  . you have never been able to do that before now, so why think you can now.

Lol @ FRSC providing light. Is it even possible for a road agency to provide light on highways in a country where the general public don't even have lights in their homes? Well, knowing the poster, such absurdity is expected.

I used to drive from california to vegas at night and trought that almost 300 miles stretch and 4 hours drive, the only time you see lighs is when you hit major cities and after that, its back to darkness, but even with the darkness, you are not going to be robbed or get swallowed by some huge pot hole.

In a country like ours, traveling in day time is dangerous talk less at night. I don't even think you need the government to tell you anything about the daders associated with night time traveling in nigeria, this is really common sense

I just came into makurdi from abj this evening and there was and accident, along lafia akwanga, the fact that it was already getting too dusk, it made it difficult to loc some of the victims not to talk of when its night. Yes it is not totally feasible to suspend temporarily not to talk of ban, hpowever, it is not impossible and also not a bad suggestion bearing in mind that it may give the opportunity toprepair these roads and thus make travelling and indeed patrolling easier for any security and other agencies. But it is outrightly a disservice to brand any suggestion made towards reducing the possibility of uncompromisingly dangerous contact with danger either as armed robbers or pot holes as dumb. . It is still possible for this to happen in ther day but lesser carnage and better response by security agencies could be purchased.

The fact that yopu dislike or hate something or someone or a group should not mean you discard every and anything from it. A broken down clock is still correct twice in a day. We should stop playing politics with lives of people.

For those who are probably too young to know,at one time, a good portion of our highways were well lit, with very well maintained roads -- especially the highways between major destinations.  .  There was a time when you could drive from Lagos to Enugu is just less than 5-6 hours, if you wanted to.    You could leave Lagos at 11am and make Kwara state before 4pm(even with all the stops along the way). 

There was a time when getting the police to accident scenes did not take hours -- there were police posts not too far from the highways, and they came running to the scene in matter of minutes(remember there were no cell phones back then). The FRSC did a better job once upon a time maintaining the highways in safe mode for us, at one time. 

However, when the authorities started neglecting their duties, our roads fell to disrepair, and travel times became longer and longer, night travel began to make more and more sense to a lot of people. 

So, let's not pretend BECAUSE IT IS NIGERIA it should always be WRONG and never close to RIGHT! Politicians anywhere else, even right there in Nigeria, get slammed when they make ridiculous suggestions. If this had been the PDP, I know quite a lot of those fishing here would be condemning the suggestion, out-rightly. I don't see why people feel the need to offer up EXCUSES or build pity-pads because particular Nigerian group like ACN are responsible for this.

I think at the end of the day the decision remains in the hands of the people because after all its a democracy. Having said that a better idea on the part of government would be to regulate night time travel by making insurance mandatory with such high premiums (reflected in night time ticket prices) that travelers may think twice. This I feel will be a win win situation. If you are desperate to travel (at night as most business men do) you probably can afford to pay the extra it would take for government to provide the extra security. No doubt this would put government (not known for accountability and propriety) under more strain so it can be handled by a private sector interface. Just an idea.

koruji:

You obviously are only after the ACN nomenclature. Being your personal business doesn't mean it cannot be addressed as part of a dire security situation?

You PDP lovers are bi-polar just because of what you are after. When GEJ locked down Abuja and ordered businesses to shutdown after 6pm due to the fear of Boko Haram not one word was heard from you guys. You might say that is an emergency situation, but the fact is the PDP government told you where you could eat & drink, and at what time. If that is not your personal business, according to your statements below, then nothing is.

UNa analogies dey baffle me!!! na ekiti state university u go (I sure)? You are comparing an event that is a National security problem (the boko haram menace) to ACN saying people should not travel at night (for what reason?)

typical ACN warrior, when pesin castigate ACN una go say na PDP hahaha, but u are right sha i sure aint no ACN, PDP? tufiakwa

Reference:

I think at the end of the day the decision remains in the hands of the people because after all its a democracy. Having said that a better idea on the part of government would be to regulate night time travel by making insurance mandatory with such high premiums (reflected in night time ticket prices) that travelers may think twice. This I feel will be a win win situation. If you are desperate to travel (at night as most business men do) you probably can afford to pay the extra it would take for government to provide the extra security. No doubt this would put government (not known for accountability and propriety) under more strain so it can be handled by a private sector interface. Just an idea.

Did you think this one through? I mean why should Government mandate travelers pay such a fee? How will having mandatory insurance money that will probably go to pockets of the same goons-in-power help reduce the plagues on our highway? What impact would such a mandatory insurance premium really have on the problem, which remains high robbery and accidents, all a result of our corrupt and inept leaders not willing to do the job for which they were hired for?

I mean the problem here is GOVERMENT HAS FAILED the people --- it is the duty of the FRSC to ensure the roads are safe for people to travel. So why are you suggesting PEOPLE for charged a fee for incompetence, and gross ineptitude, on the part of the FRSC and our Government??

If ACN had come up with a plan to sue the FRSC for letting the people down year after year, after year, that would have made more sense. Suggesting that people be restricted yet again as a result of incompetence on the part of government is moronic.

What analogy is baffling you? You said the government should step into your personal business - u didn't say, except bla bla bla. . .

I point out to you that indeed the government can, has, and will continue to control what you consider to be your "personal business" then you start issuing qualifiers.

Why not take your blinders off. I already anticipated your objection and answered, so who went to ekiti state university and who is carrying fake made in in Aba certificate

igbo boy:

UNa analogies dey baffle me!!! na ekiti state university u go (I sure)? You are comparing an event that is a National security problem (the boko haram menace) to ACN saying people should not travel at night (for what reason?)

typical ACN warrior, when pesin castigate ACN una go say na PDP hahaha, but u are right sha i sure aint no ACN, PDP? tufiakwa

koruji:

What analogy is baffling you? You said the government should step into your personal business - u didn't say, except bla bla bla. . .

I point out to you that indeed the government can, has, and will continue to control what you consider to be your "personal business" then you start issuing qualifiers.

Why not take your blinders off. I already anticipated your objection and answered, so who went to ekiti state university and who is carrying fake made in in Aba certificate

so u want me to explain everything for you to the barest minimum? are u a tata/baby? Common sense i guess is not common.

Well if that is the job of the govt i believe we can both agree ACN is not the government, When they control Aso rock, senate or the House then they can write their laws until then they should sharap and let Bros J do im work.

Aba made certificate BTW has more credibility than any oluwole certificate from that part of the country