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| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 2:48pm On Aug 09, 2011 |
KEEP Lying. This is what the Hans Wehr dictionary also says.  The passage Surah 3:54 is given below in Arabic  Notice Allah refers to himself as "Khayrul-Makereen" which correctly translated means "Allah is the greatest of all deceivers." This is verified by looking up the root letters (Meem, Kaaf, and Rah) in an Arabic Dictionary such as Al-Mawrid:  If one still doubts the meaning of the term, consider Abu Bakr’s testimony to the deceptive character of Allah taken from the "Successors of the Messenger" by Khalid Muhammad Khalid, p. 70:  For those of you who don’t read Arabic Abu Bakr, though promised paradise by Allah and his apostle, while weeping says, "By Allah! I would not feel safe from the deception (same Arabic word) of Allah, even if I had one foot in paradise." The testimony of Abu Bakr is consistent with the Quran which tells Muslims that they should not feel secure against the Makr or deception of Allah. "Are they then secure from Allah's scheme (Makr)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's scheme (Makr) save folk that perish." S. 7:99 Pickthall The word translated "scheme" by Pickthall is the same Arabic word (Meem, Kaaf, Rah or Makr) which the dictionary tells us means deception. The Arabic of Surah 7:99 is given below.  Abu Bakr being a true believer in Islam could not feel safe from Allah’s deception (Makr) even though he was promised paradise by Allah and his apostle Muhammad! Because of the devastating implications of the phrase "Allah Khayrul-Makereen" one prominent Muslim apologist claimed Makereen has a different meaning when applied to the divine. Below are a few problems with this position. The passage says Allah is the greatest of all makereen. Makereen describes all members of a class of which Allah is the greatest member. If someone is the greatest member of a set they must be a member of that set. Therefore, this Muslim argument is logically impossible. Neglecting for a moment the logical impossibility of this explanation, let us consider the broader discussion of applying descriptive language to God. Typically adjectives change the strength of their character when applied to greater beings but not the basic character of the word. For example, the word "good" might be applied as an adjective to a dog, a man, and God. Certainly the word "good" became much stronger as it was applied to greater beings. None the less, the word "good" did not have a transformation of its basic character when applied to different types of beings. Good may mean something different in each case but in each case it was something good. If the word makereen becomes stronger in its meaning as applied to greater beings then the objection of the Christian becomes even stronger with that change. Again neglecting the logical impossibility of the apologist’s explanation, consider the logical consequences of the claim that words have a different meaning when applied to Allah. If the word makereen is transformed from something horrible to something good when applied to Allah then there is no analogy with its usage as applied to men. If this hermeneutical approach is correct then the phrase "no partners" when applied to Allah also has a meaning that is different from its normal sense but any different meaning results in the conclusion that Allah has partners. Thus shirk is a logical consequence of adopting this approach to interpreting the Quran. If words are allowed to radically change the basic character by the fact that they are associated with Allah then how could one ever have any revelation about Allah in human language? Before such a "revelation" could be understood it would be necessary that mankind would be given a new set of meanings for words when applied to Allah, and perhaps a new set of grammatical rules as well. Can one really call a book a "revelation" if the meanings of the words used in that book have no relation to their previously understood meanings? How is it that one would even know that a word applied to Allah has a radically different type of meaning that it has when applied to man? Could not such a bold assumption if not based in revelation, be considered an act of unbelief, an attempt to reject what Allah has revealed about himself? I know of no record of Muhammad telling us any secret new meanings of words. If one believes that these meanings were revealed after Muhammad then they are in effect saying that they believe in prophets after Muhammad with the authority to change the meanings of words in the Quran. The context of Surah 3:54 is Allah allegedly deceiving people to believe Jesus died by crucifixion when according to Islam he didn’t. We know from the New Testament that Jesus’ disciples believed that Jesus died from crucifixion. Since in Surah 3:55 Allah tells Jesus, "I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the day of the resurrection", Muslims who believe the Quran can rest assured that the New Testament has been accurately preserved. Otherwise they would have to believe that those who reject faith not only had superiority over the those who followed Jesus, but had it to such an extent that they were able to distort the New Testament, which would of course mean that Surah 3:55 contained a false statement and an empty promise from Allah. Historical accounts indicate that many of Jesus’ disciples and loyal followers were put to death for preaching that Jesus was crucified, died, was buried and rose from the dead. Hence it was not just the unbelievers that Allah deceived but the believers as well. Why would Allah deceive the loyal followers of Jesus, whom the Quran claims is a prophet of Allah? If Allah would deceive Jesus’ loyal followers regarding what they thought they saw and heard, how can we be sure he didn’t deceive Muhammad’s loyal followers concerning what they thought they heard Muhammad saying and saw him doing? Since it was the followers of Muhammad who compiled the Quran, Hadith and Sirat how can we trust their sense perception and memory given that Allah deceived the sense perception and memory of prophet Jesus’ loyal followers? How could Muhammad claim he was confirming that which was before him when Allah in Surah 3:54 is called the greatest deceiver and the Bible says that God cannot lie? The God revealed in the Bible portrays Himself as being truthful: "so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us." Hebrews 6:18 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" Numbers 23:19 Jesus told us who the greatest deceiver is: (Jesus speaking to the unbelievers) "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44 Contrast this to Surah 13:42. Note the word deceive (Meem, Kaaf, Rah) translated plotted and plotting: "Those who were before them plotted (root = Meem Kaaf Rah); but all plotting (root = Mem Kaaf Rah) is Allah's. He knoweth that which each soul earneth. The disbelievers will come to know for whom will be the sequel of the (heavenly) Home." S. 13:42 Pickthall  |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sweetnecta: 4:22pm On Aug 09, 2011 |
@Frosbel; you bring in the dictionary of arabic language compiled by a german or white european christians? why not used lisan dictionary? [lisani arabiya; this is an arab defining the language of his mother tongue]. it is ridiculous thinking you have shown here. it is similar to leaving aworerin magazine and you picked up german's spiegel to learn the meaning of iya. here are the meanings of Makr; Etymology of the Word Makara Sura 3:54 says that Allah makara. The Arabic word makara means to deceive, scheme, or plan. The Arabic Bible in Genesis 3:1 uses the same word for Satan. However, the Vand Dyck and Jerusalem Bibles use the root word hayala. This word "schemer" (maakir) is a very strong word which Wehr and Abdel-Nour define as "sly, cunning, wily". The Arabic-Arabic unjid defines it with khuda`a which means exactly the same thing (by Bill Campbell in his book The Qur'an and the Bible in the Light of History and Science p.217-218). it is interesting that you didn't say anything about 'planner'. is it not true that the disbelievers who were the enemies of Jesus, even from your varied bibles schemed or planned to kill him? or did they deceive to kill him [lol]? this will eliminate deceit, deception, since they were saying to Jesus that they were his friends and would not kill him. all their intentions were kept secretly away from Jesus as they schemed or planned [make your own choice because it is your god that was gored to death in the bibles, the same man Allah saved by making the scheme or plan of the enemies useless]. what shall we say Allah did to make the efforts of the disbelievers fail, since Allah knew it and He was not telling them? the only thing we can say is that He planned to make their scheme or plan of evil useless [the christians have the return to the sender police [the yorubas among you will say ki ibi pada si ori onibi]]. is this not the accurate way to look at it, since Allah is protecting the only party the disbelievers can hurt, and he is unable to know fully or prevent it, as you see the result in your bible. but in Quran, Allah says the end of this event is unlike what the bibles record; there is a happy ending for Jesus because unlike Yahweh, Allah protected him and then lifted him up to Himself, away from the earth where the disbelievers, the Jews will do him harm if they get him. a. Is Allah the best of Planners here when His plan was successful as expected, and the plan or scheme of the disbelievers truly failed? b. Or in your mind is Allah the best of Schemers here when there is no reason to scheme before the scheme of the disbelievers truly failed? c. Or worse in your mind, is Allah the best of Deceivers here when He was not the friends of the disbelievers lying to them to make their deceit failed? you have a choice, if only you understand english and choose the one that truly explain the outcome of the Quranic story. I know you live in England. So are some english born, who are not fluent in their mother tongue. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 4:27pm On Aug 09, 2011 |
You Muslims are just pathetic Liars , it is disgusting. I will post a translation later in the evening by an ARAB who states the obvious about Islam, which is DECEPTION, DECEPTION and DECEPTION. Oh by the way , did you read the comment in that other article today by that wonderful lady that says she was once a Muslim but has now left due to the twistedness of its prophet ? |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by vedaxcool(m): 5:02pm On Aug 09, 2011 |
frosbel: Fanaticism has never gotten anybody anywhere, your denial of Muslim sources of Translation in prefence to Christian sources, only makes your character questioonable and simply indicts the way you reason. i am pretty amaze the level of civility you display when you do not agree with people, so unless we accept the translation given by a German, of which i have shown one given by an English man, it makes us Liars? Only Foolish people will believe your Foolish Logics, You keep showing the bigotry that I know you with when you were still a brainless Zionist who accepted everything Isreal did as being Proper Code of Conduct according to the Bible. yet instead of re- examining why you swallowed foolery wholeheartedly you instead became an anti - islamic Extremist who label Muslims Liars for not accepting your source of evidence or of having a different understanding of it. Sweetnecta:  , May Allah reward you a thousand folds amin, How Fanatical can Frosbel? |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sweetnecta: 5:31pm On Aug 09, 2011 |
@Frosbel; « #30 on: Today at 01:42:52 PM » [Quote]^^ There are spiritual things that only a spiritual man can understand.[/Quote]this opinion applies only in the religion of christianity, or reality that every religion is of this opinion? [Quote]A man dead in his sins, is totally blind to the things of GOD.[/Quote]is this not what the jews will say about christians who adopts 3 gods and pick up what the jews rejected? making a teacher equal to his Maker? [Quote]But let us contrast Yahweh with ALLAH. Based on the verses quoted above, ALLAH personally lies and deceives.[/Quote]lied to whom and deceived whom? did He tell them they can killed Jesus and when He saved him Allah by that lied and or deceived the enemies of His messenger? Do you think at all? what did Yahweh or Jehovah did about the condition of Jesus? Lets go to the Bibles where we read that Jesus begged and cried so much in prayers. tearing up so much that his disciples noticed it. Yet after all of this, Yahweh made sure Jesus died in the hands of his enemies by hanging? Is Yahweh capable and loves Jesus? If that is not hatred, what is hate then? [Quote]This is not about my religion is better than your religion as I do not believe in religion. This is a mater of life and death, the eternal destiny of your soul. If you make a mistake here, you lose your soul, your only soul.[/Quote]read the above and convince yourself that you have not made a mistake? you cant fool me. [Quote]Reading the bible like a story book will only confuse you more and more till you start to behave like Muslims[/Quote]is the bible not a story book? Show me the gospel that Jesus preached based on the message he was sent on? Have you heard of red letter Bible? The red letter part is small and it what they say Jesus said. they say i said. no one is absolutely sure that he said everything in the red letter because one verse says God is not seen. another verse is telling us that Jesus is saying that he is God. You see lies and deceit in action, a plan to scheme? [Quote]"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks ( worldly wise ) foolishness;" 1 Corinthians 1:23[/Quote]who is the we but Paul? Is this your reason? You are suckered in, mehn. And after all of this, jews still holds the salvation of those who believe in the bibles. [Quote]"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:24[/Quote]was not the spirit, which is the holy ghost [lol] supposed to act just one time and you have said it acted on penticost? how is it acting after that day? was Jesus lying or those other people including you ae the liars? [Quote]" the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." - John 14:17[/Quote]if this true, there is no christian having that spirit because it addressed those 12 disciples and 1 of them died before the spirit arrived, lived in them and was buried in parts with each of them. this verse excludes you. [Quote]" For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." - 1 Corinthians 1:21[/Quote]Gabbbbage. corinthians writer was not even around at that time, unless he was the spirit which is another comforter? the spirit you are talking about is another comforter according to Jesus. That comforter, may be unique that it is the only comforter in history, since no one will claim he or she was a comforter before, so we may not from the bible know the nature of the 'another comforter'. but Jesus tells us his value system; 1] he will come after jesus is not here on earth. 2] he will be sent by God. 3] he will hear from God. 4] he will speak what he hears from God, this is commandment of God on him [because of this we know he can't be God, but a spirit commanded]. a] a prophet is a spirit from God, too. a] and you will know the true prophet carry spirit from God because all that he says must come to pass. 5] he will correct the people. a] i am thinking how bad can the disciple be needing correction right after Jesus was lifted on the day of penticost? 6] he will lead to all truth; what all truth did the ghost of penticost lead the disciples to? 7] he will teach you new things. a] what new things the ghost on penticost taught the poor student known as disciples? 8] he will remind them of what Jesus truly said. a] what did the disciples forget that they were reminded on penticost by the ghost that did not speak? 8] he will glorify or honor Jesus. a] how did the non speaking ghost did that on penticost? if these disciples had to fail so early after Jesus that they needed correction, how can we trust that they didn't fail again after penticost? After all Jesus said he will come back and we are still waiting and no disciple is alive now. Jesus said John was Elijah and John said thats not true. we know John was sinless. Jesus said there is a sign for a true prophet; if the prophet says Jesus is the christ. No prophet raised up again among the Jews. But the only prophet that came after Jesus in this world came with a book different from the bibles and says Jesus is the messiah, he leads to all things, showing things to come, teaching new thing and glorifying or honoring Jesus by saying his mother Mary is a honorable woman and Jesus is a true messenger of God. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 11:14pm On Aug 09, 2011 |
Are only religiously intolerant christians real believers? |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 11:29pm On Aug 09, 2011 |
frosbel: ."For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" – St. Paul, Romans 3.7 what kind of fool use a lie to explain another lie. mscheeeeew! You lie to yourselves and to others because honesty will crush your so-called faith |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 2:17pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
vedaxcool: that's odd. By virtue of the fact that christianity has existed for at least 1000 yrs BEFORE islam, whose sources of translation would be more reliable? |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 5:05pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
Bible condems lying in all ramifications.liars shall not enter God kingdon.1cor 6:9,10.People must know different between lie and hidding information.to avoid lying christian may remain silent or not giving specific information.JESUS did that when pilate asked him,are u king?regarding midwives in exodus account,they are not jews.they are egyptians.they did not live.they hid information.cleverly one can avoid lying in perilious situations by hid essential information.however if a christian lie,he should pray for forgiveness.lying is listed alongside fornication,murder as sins that incur death.Bible condems lying in all ramifications.liars shall not enter God kingdon.1cor 6:9,10.People must know different between lie and hidding information.to avoid lying christian may remain silent or not giving specific information.JESUS did that when pilate asked him,are u king?regarding midwives in exodus account,they are not jews.they are egyptians.they did not live.they hid information.cleverly one can avoid lying in perilious situations by hid essential information.however if a christian lie,he should pray for forgiveness.lying is listed alongside fornication,murder as sins that incur death. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sike(m): 5:51pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
frosbel: |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by yabadabado: 6:42pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
ANOTHER PLAN TO START INTER-FAITH PALAVER, but on a more serious note, i have found out that most nigerians are atheist in denial , a lot of muslim would consider their sisters and brothers before others, eg, ministries, agencies, departments appointment[on a friday, the ministry of works of lagos state is usually in hibernating mode, because almost everyone in there is a muslim, which is as a result of d former commissioner-AREGBESHOLA, now governor,], same apply the christians, again , many christians/muslims have refuse to retire[downgrading their age], ahmed musa /ramon azeez etc[flying eagles 2011] were all maing alot of issue about their fasting plan, trying to show people say dem holy pass but these guy are all over age players, bottom line , we are a theiving bunch of pips, may God forgive us all |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by yabadabado: 6:44pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
PAR DON MA ENGLISH , IT TERRIBLE , but the gist ;is quit simple , nobody holy pass |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 7:19pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
D.i.c.k-measuring religious fa.g.g.o.t.s!!! |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by maasoap(m): 8:39pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
I don't know why some people always like to start the war they can't win. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 8:50pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
[flash=400,400] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_KTyOnEVlg?version=3&hl=en[/flash] |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by BetaThings: 10:00pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
frosbel:I know a lot of wonderful people who have being able to remove the yoke of christian falsehood and propaganda from their lives Pathetic Liars? You mean muslim or christian 1. This happened in CONGO. Christians cut it up and sent images around saying muslims did it in Jos to christians travelling from the SouthEast to the North http://www.france24.com/en/20100703-democratic-republic-congo-deaths-explosion-fuel-tanker-fire The emails were screaming - "In the name of Allah", "God Save Nigeria etc 2. A survey was done of both muslims and christians in Nigeria. They both wanted their religious laws implemented in the country. So what did a christian do? He came with this report on Nairaland that Only Muslims wanted their laws implemented https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-431142.0.html 3. Further down, he says there is no christian law Now, an ex judge of a court of appeal has also recommended the establishment of Christian Courts http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art201108105205245 A former judge of the Court of Appeal and Chairman, Council of Legal Education,Justice Moronkeji Onalaja, on Sunday advocated the establishment of ecclesiastical courts in Nigeria. Onalaja said, “If there is a breach of a Christian law for instance and you report to the bishop how is he going to determine whether he is innocent or guilty of the allegation? “As we have the Islamic law that is enforced by sharia courts in the country then we should allow for the agitation of ecclesiastical courts to be established in the country that would challenge the breach of Christian laws. I think the machinery should be set in motion.” 3 Christians have kept quiet about this. Imagine if this had been said by a muslim. it will divide the country, it will islamise the country etc 4[/b]Prof Soludo removed the Arabic inscription on N10, N20 and N50 notes and left them on N100, N200, N500 and N1,000. This is because he did not change the size of those notes. Now christians, including a member of the House of Reps who took up an advertorial on the matter, have been saying Lamido has reintroduced Arabic inscription on Nigerian currency. Fact is that the only thing that has changed is the the name Soludo has been replaced with Sanusi [b]5 Christians claim that Muslims do not give equal right to women. Fact is that the Bible forbids women from speaking in the church 6 Christians claim that Muslims call them infidels. Yet the Bible call non-christians infidels 7 Christians shuttle between the old and new testaments while arguing. They choose the one that is favourable to the argument at hand. Additionally, they start criticising other denominations or distinguish between orthodox and pentecostal churches 8 Christians claim that they advocate peace and forgive their enemies. The Wars or Religion, Saint Bartholomews DAy Massacre etc have given lies to this. Even in Nigeria, there was an incident at the Kaduna catholic church involving a reverend father who said he saw condoms in his church 9 Christians are quick to accuse muslims of trying to Islamise the country. Yet this is from the website of a church http://www.latterrainassembly.org/lra/aboutus.html We are a new society of persons unconditionally committed to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in every aspect of life and whatever it takes, we seek to exchange the values of the surrounding society and the world at large with the standards of God's Kingdom. 10Christians can tell any lie to make Islam look bad. you quoted Quran 9:2 above. Why did you skip verse 9:1. why did you stop at 9:2? You did because you wanted to present a false picture of Islam. Prior to WWII, the Germans and Russians signed a non-aggression pact. Later Germany attacked Russia. Now would you expect Russia to continue to honour that pact after being attacked. That is what the verse you quoted is all about. Even you, Frosbel, are fond of expounding principles that you cannot live by. You cautioned people for being abusive, yet you indulge in it as Truly pointed out https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-431142.32.html You said up there that you are will renounce your faith if the religion supports lying but you won't since the Bible is riddled with lies So what about Judges 1 : 19. Is it true or is it a lie? |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sweetnecta: 10:57pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
@Davidylan; « #39 on: Today at 02:17:13 PM » [Quote]Quote from: vedaxcool on Yesterday at 05:02:15 PM Fanaticism has never gotten anybody anywhere, your denial of Muslim sources of Translation in prefence to Christian sources, only makes your character questioonable and simply indicts the way you reason. i am pretty amaze the level of civility you display when you do not agree with people, so unless we accept the translation given by a German, of which i have shown one given by an English man, it makes us Liars? Only Foolish people will believe your Foolish Logics, You keep showing the bigotry that I know you with when you were still a brainless Zionist who accepted everything Isreal did as being Proper Code of Conduct according to the Bible. yet instead of re- examining why you swallowed foolery wholeheartedly you instead became an anti - islamic Extremist who label Muslims Liars for not accepting your source of evidence or of having a different understanding of it. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin, May Allah reward you a thousand folds amin, How Fanatical can Frosbel? that's odd. By virtue of the fact that christianity has existed for at least 1000 yrs BEFORE islam,[/Quote]at least a 1000 years? Is this not a lie? Can you give us the 1st year of christianity and give us the first year of Islam, and see if a 1000 years exist between them? Liar. this is true. your statement is truly an obvious lie. thats 'ODD'. not really odd coming from your mouth. [Quote] whose sources of translation would be more reliable?[/Quote]being earlier is not always being factual, or even reliable. otherwise the world will still be flat today. but we know that to an obviously ignorant mind, looking at the world from his apartment, he sees a flat floor, and he concludes 'the world is flat'. there is google satellite that says differently; the world is not flat, pally. and monumental act of doltishness like your about being earlier to mean being right[er] will not be condoned. @Laalamed« #40 on: Today at 05:05:21 PM » [Quote]Bible condems lying in all ramifications.liars shall not enter God kingdon.1cor 6:9,1[b][/b]0.People must know different between lie and hidding information.to avoid lying christian may remain silent or not giving specific information.JESUS did that when pilate asked him,are u king?regarding midwives in exodus account,they are not jews.they are egyptians.they did not live.they hid information.cleverly one can avoid lying in perilious situations by hid essential information.however if a christian lie,he should pray for forgiveness.lying is listed alongside fornication,murder as sins that incur death.Bible condems lying in all ramifications.liars shall not enter God kingdon.1cor 6:9,10.People must know different between lie and hidding information.to avoid lying christian may remain silent or not giving specific information.JESUS did that when pilate asked him,are u king?regarding midwives in exodus account,they are not jews.they are egyptians.they did not live.they hid information.cleverly one can avoid lying in perilious situations by hid essential information.however if a christian lie,he should pray for forgiveness.lying is listed alongside fornication,murder as sins that incur death.[/Quote]Jesus said; whoever calls a man 'fool' will enter hell. Later, Jesus said to a people or a person 'you are a fool'. Where is Jesus by the mouth of Jesus from the two biblical verses above? If christians do not lie, they will say hell forever. this is your book. read it. Did jesus lie, if he is not an inmate of Hell? The christians will have search their consciences if the bible is true and Jesus is true. Jesus promised a hearing talking Another Comforter to accomplish some few roles after him. Did the ghostly fire on the day of penticost accomplish them that day, since the ghost never came back to the disciples, again? Did Jesus lie or the it it the Bible Writers and Christians are the liars, or no one lied? please answer or proof that no one lied. John said he was not Elijah or Messiah or That Prophet [please where is that prophet prophesied in OT that the Jewish scholarship was able to ask John this?]. Jesus he was not Elijah, but John was Elijah [John already said he was not Elijah. So he and Jesus disagreed with each other there. who is telling the truth? Please me know because either way the Bible has contained a lie or statement of ignorance], Jesus said he was Messiah and he was not that Prophet [please tell me if that prophet ever came since no one came as a prophet among the children of Israel after Jesus?]. Are there no lies in my analysis of the biblical verses and events above? |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by BetaThings: 11:22pm On Aug 10, 2011 |
Sweetnecta:SN, I strongly advise against debating someone who is so rude as to write the name of Allah in small letters. It is pointless and you should really desist. We shall see who will wail on the day of resurrection. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sweetnecta: 12:58am On Aug 11, 2011 |
@Frosbel; « #32 on: Yesterday at 02:48:04 PM » [Quote]KEEP Lying. This is what the Hans Wehr dictionary also says.[/Quote]lying is deceiving, scheming, plotting, planning, etc. Which one is most appropriate since you thing i am not telling you te truth, if you have to replace lying with one othe these? [Quote]The passage Surah 3:54 is given below in Arabic[/Quote]the passage was talking about disbelievers future action. right? against Jesus or against righteousness i will take it. right? shall we then say that these disbelievers were deceiving Jesus about their intention to harm him, if you say Allah then deceives the deceptive disbelievers? How did the disbelievers deceived Jesus, if you can explain it? Were they friends of Jesus and showing him clean teeth smiling, telling him we will not hurt you, we will protect you, we give you our words, pledging allegiance to you, oh prophet of God? If this is not the case between Jesus and the evil disbelievers who were not his disciples, then deception, deceiving, deceit, deceiver will be the wrong sets of words. how about scheming since they hated his guts? It will better but planning is the best since their agenda is a plan, that they intended to carry out, being his enemies and never say they were his friends [they would have been deceiving or scheming if they were his friends; Judas deceived, schemed, planned because he was a friend, but the jews by and large were his enemies]. We see now that Allah cant be the greatest of Deceivers in this verse. how about the greatest of Schemers? no, because Allah was not on earth with them, Jesus His Slave was with a message that the disbelievers hated. wile the schemed or plan, Allah knows their evil intent already, so all He does was to enact a plan, not schemes since He is All Knowing to derail their efforts, as Only He can, the reason Jesus depended on Him. I depend on Him, too. Scheming connotes that you hide the truth even when you should have revealed it, because asked. Deceiving is when the opposite what was expect is done. Planning is just that, a process to achieve a goal, objective. in this case Allah has decreed that Jesus will not be killed by humiliation of being hung because the jews in their occult lives of Kabala, etc believe that a person hung to death on the tree has his soul cursed. do you then expect Allah to not protect His Messenger [as] with the best of protections so that the plans of the disbelievers will come to nothing? If you want to make call the effort of the disbelievers a deception of the disbelievers to Jesus, please proof it. Why is it a deception but not a plan? [Quote]Notice Allah refers to himself as "Khayrul-Makereen" which correctly translated means "Allah is the greatest of all deceivers." This is verified by looking up the root letters (Meem, Kaaf, and Rah) in an Arabic Dictionary such as Al-Mawrid:[/Quote]Why is not the greatest of planners? By the way the greatest is also Akbar like in Allahu Akbar {Allah is the Greatest}, Kabira like in uluwan Kabira [greatest haughiness]. you can now see that greatest has many arabic word, and makr has many english meaning, frosbel? [Quote]If one still doubts the meaning of the term, consider Abu Bakr’s testimony to the deceptive character of Allah taken from the "Successors of the Messenger" by Khalid Muhammad Khalid, p. 70:[/Quote]will the proper term be plan of Allah, since the Quran has laid out the road map to success or not success if you do not follow it? i will read the below piece that you have mentioned. [Quote]For those of you who don’t read Arabic Abu Bakr, though promised paradise by Allah and his apostle, while weeping says, "By Allah! I would not feel safe from the deception (same Arabic word) of Allah, even if I had one foot in paradise."[/Quote]is that a better read if it says; By Allah i would not feel safe from the plan [same arabic word] of Allah, even if i had one foot in paradise? [Quote]The testimony of Abu Bakr is consistent with the Quran which tells Muslims that they should not feel secure against the Makr or deception of Allah.[/Quote]They should not feel secure against the plan [makr] of Allah [because if they slip they may just die on that slip 'act'. Allah warns that believer should not die unless on the state of Muslim; the last act should be that of Muslim, not act of disbeliever]. the bracketed should explain that deception is inappropriate but rather plan is the correct word. [Quote]"Are they then secure from Allah's scheme (Makr)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's scheme (Makr) save folk that perish." S. 7:99 Pickthall[/Quote]Are they them secure from Allah's plan [makr]? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's plan [makr] save folk that perish. S 7 verse 99. [Quote]The word translated "scheme" by Pickthall is the same Arabic word (Meem, Kaaf, Rah or Makr) which the dictionary tells us means deception. The Arabic of Surah 7:99 is given below.[/Quote]are scheme and deception the two words that means makr? how about plan? What is the word for plan? Fosbel, you are a liar if you can't find another word for makr. You are also a liar if plan is also Makr. [Quote]Abu Bakr being a true believer in Islam could not feel safe from Allah’s deception (Makr) even though he was promised paradise by Allah and his apostle Muhammad![/Quote]No one should feel safe from the plan of Allah and Allah does not have to deceive anyone because He is Lord God capable in all respects. he is different from Yahweh who is incapable according to your bibles. He is different from Jehovah who is 3 and the power must also be 1/3 of the original if this is true. [Quote]Because of the devastating implications of the phrase "Allah Khayrul-Makereen" one prominent Muslim apologist claimed Makereen has a different meaning when applied to the divine. Below are a few problems with this position. The passage says Allah is the greatest of all makereen. Makereen describes all members of a class of which Allah is the greatest member. If someone is the greatest member of a set they must be a member of that set. Therefore, this Muslim argument is logically impossible.[/Quote]it will be impossible to read that the enemies of Jesus who were not disciples or people willing to agree with him, in their willingness to kill him deceived him, rather that make their plan to kill him. Or you prefer that it is a better english sentence that the enemies of Jesus deceived to kill him and Allah then deceived to save him? But He saved him, frosbel. You are terrible soul. Nothing good is coming from you up till now. [Quote]Neglecting for a moment the logical impossibility of this explanation, let us consider the broader discussion of applying descriptive language to God. Typically adjectives change the strength of their character when applied to greater beings but not the basic character of the word. For example, the word "good" might be applied as an adjective to a dog, a man, and God. Certainly the word "good" became much stronger as it was applied to greater beings. None the less, the word "good" did not have a transformation of its basic character when applied to different types of beings. Good may mean something different in each case but in each case it was something good. If the word makereen becomes stronger in its meaning as applied to greater beings then the objection of the Christian becomes even stronger with that change.[/Quote]let the christian rejoice in their failure. i for one weep for them. I weep for them in the same sense that Muhammad [as] stood when the funeral procession of a jew passed by him. He stood up for the soul regretfully destined for hell fire and could have been destined for paradise if only that Jew had followed the messenger [as] in Madina with him, the same way Jewish Rabbi turned Muslim Abdallah AbdulSalam [ra] in Madina. You have the Quran in your community. That represents Muhammad, because it was the word he heard from Allah and he poke it to mankind, and only believers accept it. Is makr to only mean deception, or scheme, but not plan? how do you figure when Yahweh says He regretted? Is that to mean the greatest regret? The greatest regret will be in Hell fire. Bible is wrong, and so are the christians. They are not satisfied with their conditions and their book versions, but they must plan [makr], or scheme [makr] but I will not say deceive [makr] the muslims to become like them. Shame on you frosbel on your plan [mark] to deceive [makr]. but we know your scheme [makr]. inchaAllah Allah will protect us by His plan [makr] against you. He does not have to deceive [makr] you about His ability, and there is no scheme [makr] hidden from you. You know now. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sweetnecta: 1:01am On Aug 11, 2011 |
@betathings;« #49 on: Yesterday at 11:22:23 PM » [Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:57:40 PM @Davidylan; « #39 on: Today at 02:17:13 PM »at least a 1000 years? Is this not a lie? Can you give us the 1st year of christianity and give us the first SN, I strongly advise against debating someone who is so rude as to write the name of Allah in small letters. It is pointless and you should really desist. We shall see who will wail on the day of resurrection.[/Quote]thanks my brother. Ramadhan karim. i shall. Salaamualaykum wa Rahmatullah. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by BetaThings: 3:41am On Aug 11, 2011 |
^^^^^ Wa alaykum salaam, wa Rahmatu Llah wa baraka tu Hu Wa ayakum |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 5:52am On Aug 11, 2011 |
Jon.Bee: |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by vedaxcool(m): 8:09am On Aug 11, 2011 |
davidylan: It is very clear that you are either not replying what i wrote or you hardly understood what was being replied, I was referring to the dictionaries translating the Arabic words Makra, which i indicated that Muslims dictionaries of Translation of Arabic can not be overlook to satisfy Christian Fanaticism. the issue 1000 yrs does not creep up at all. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 10:17am On Aug 11, 2011 |
^^ You people just cannot stop lying, can you ? Must you keep lying to support your religion, what ever happened to TRUTH !!!!!!!! |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sweetnecta: 11:29am On Aug 11, 2011 |
@Frisbel: Must you lie to keep propping up yhe dead corpse religion, against Islam? dead man doesn't talk. when something has lost its value, you can say 'dead 'thing' walking' this morning i was reading Suratul Rad {Thunder], and verse 33 and 42 have Makr in them. I present them along with the beautiful story of human reality in it. Please in the Makr, the translator used plot and plan, please used any of the words you prefer and be consistent in each verse. Then read it to yourself before you post it for the whole world to see your english scholarship. its not technical writing but is almost in a religious way. [Quote]13:33 Then is He who is a maintainer of every soul, [knowing] what it has earned, [like any other]? But to Allah they have attributed partners. Say, "Name them. Or do you inform Him of that which He knows not upon the earth or of what is apparent of speech?" Rather, their [own] plan has been made attractive to those who disbelieve, and they have been averted from the way. And whomever Allah leaves astray - there will be for him no guide. 13:34 For them will be punishment in the life of [this] world, and the punishment of the Hereafter is more severe. And they will not have from Allah any protector. 13:35 The example of Paradise, which the righteous have been promised, is [that] beneath it rivers flow. Its fruit is lasting, and its shade. That is the consequence for the righteous, and the consequence for the disbelievers is the Fire. 13:36 And [the believers among] those to whom We have given the [previous] Scripture rejoice at what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], but among the [opposing] factions are those who deny part of it. Say, "I have only been commanded to worship Allah and not associate [anything] with Him. To Him I invite, and to Him is my return." 13:37 And thus We have revealed it as an Arabic legislation. And if you should follow their inclinations after what has come to you of knowledge, you would not have against Allah any ally or any protector. 13:38 And We have already sent messengers before you and assigned to them wives and descendants. And it was not for a messenger to come with a sign except by permission of Allah . For every term is a decree. 13:39Allah eliminates what He wills or confirms, and with Him is the Mother of the Books. 13:40 And whether We show you part of what We promise them or take you in death, upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account. 13:41 Have they not seen that We set upon the land, reducing it from its borders? And Allah decides; there is no adjuster of His decision. And He is swift in account. 13:42 And those before them had plotted, but to Allah belongs the plan entirely. He knows what every soul earns, and the disbelievers will know for whom is the final home. 13:43 And those who have disbelieved say, "You are not a messenger." Say, [O Muhammad], "Sufficient is Allah as Witness between me and you, and [the witness of] whoever has knowledge of the Scripture."[/Quote]further, the who chapter, or just i posted here. Allah mentioned disbeliever [Pagans, Christians, etc about partnership the invented] report back to us. make your own makr known or unknown to us. we are only humans. Allah knows about you. I pray that receive guidance before too long. Amin. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Nobody: 12:05pm On Aug 11, 2011 |
Yeah Islam is full of life , physical but not spiritual. Totally DEAD Spiritually. Keep believing a LIE. That's your decision. I have made my point for all to see. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by islamrules(m): 12:36pm On Aug 11, 2011 |
One funny thing about this thread/post is: Christians now are getting vulnerabilities and lies in the quran. Before muslims used to read the bible change it meanings to critisize christianity. Christians were ignorant of quran and hadiths. But now things has changed, I even saw a debate on Youtube between the two. I was surprised the way christians were quoting quran in arabic. There is no more secret anywhere. I used to wonder about some lies in the quran when I was a muslim. But I was afraid of allah then but now im now with Jehovah. I even met a christian who is a quran/arabic scholar last month. Lol, christian keep it up, keep digging. I can give you suras you can go and study and see fakeness at the fullest. Any muslim quran scholar here want to compete with me. Request for my email, I break ur quran from head to toe and u will see u have bin a monkey since all these days. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Ayoobscom(m): 12:37pm On Aug 11, 2011 |
I'm happy comming across this opportunity to share my personal experience. my parents (father and mother) were quarreling while i was 14 and my father set my mother packing out his house, I couldn't help but crying and didn't know what to do as this must not happen, "my father divorce my mother God forbid' i said to myself.elder ones were confused so they all kept quiet. The second day my father made the second pronunciation "woman i said get your things and go what are you still doing in my house?''Jade ninu ile mi,keru e I was there i witnessed everything. As a brilliant,disciplined and thoughtful young boy i recited prayed to ALLAH then a thought occured to me -what i'm going to do?.Honestly of all my fathers 16 children i was his favorite, not only for the fact that i always came first in the class but also for my motivational roles on the farm/i always say something that makes us work impressively on the farm.every farmer loves a child that works with passion. As i was saying i thought of lying, but what kind of lie will make my father change his mind, his furry burns beyond control, I went to meet him it was exactly 7:30 pm i entered his room and the next thing i heard"yes who is that?" i said Daddy its me, 'Ehen! i quietly went down on my two knees."Ehen! what is it?" i have never seen my father so raged that he could not even reckon with his favorite son. my lips shaking i became dumb and mute, And i said father i just came to deliver a message from my mom,,.she sent me to you, "Ok what is the message" i responded "SHE SAID SHE'S VERY SORRY that it will never happened again" with tears rolling down my chick. My father remained quiet awhile and ask''she said this and i nodded YES !YES! he then held my hands, i looked into his eyes and said she cried throughout the night whereas she slept all through.My dad said its alright. As soon as i left his arms, i ran quickly back to my mom, i met her with equal furry,crying and parking her things, i stood by the door and said mom! i'm coming from Daddy with a message, ''what silly message have you from that mad man. And i responded i met dad crying alone,he said he's sorry and never wanted you to leave.the clothe she was folding fell from her hand and she hopped me close to herself and promise me its alright. And later they found out my lies and summoned me and my brothers, i will never forget their prayers and the respect my lies earns me in our family, i remained the nitch that stiched a falling building.and their prayer has started manifesting one by one, I graduated b4 my brothers, i got a good job, that day my father said something i will never forget, Allah has shown us the leader in our midst, this boy is the last born and the crown of all, and this is exactly what i'm today, Alhamdulilah, i work with telecom So lying in this case cannot be a sin and is synonymous to the instances in the Holy qur'an. Everybody cannot be Muslim nor Christian, if so why did Allah created paradise and hellfire? this is what i usually ask myself, so far so good, i'm learned islamically and westernally, and have never seen any truth like the HOLY QUR'AN and a role model worthy than the Holy Prophet muhammed SAW. So @frosbell live and let live, @frosbell you are supposed to be fasting instead of questioning the gospel truth that lies are sometimes unavoidably employed to tactically rescue a deadly situation and other cases like in war or making your wife to love you more, so stop ranting and wasting bandwidth Ramadam Kareem to muslim brothers and sisters.!Jazakalah |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Sweetnecta: 12:55pm On Aug 11, 2011 |
this story above is so touching, it brought the Quran alive, walking, talking, consoling the heart of those who meet it. I brought back Muhammad [as] on the mimbar in the mosque in Madina, with all the hundreds of 1000s of the companions [rs] listen to him and absorbing everything. They benefited then. We benefit today, as freshly as they were then. We live Islam, with greatness of Iman. islam is amanah [trust] in our hands. Allah has spoken. His messenger [as] displayed the best of noble quality. We are all grateful to Allah for it. may Allah continue to increase you. Amin. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by islamrules(m): 1:00pm On Aug 11, 2011 |
Ayoobscom Ur kind of lie is acceptable. If somebody point a gun at u and ask a question that you know if you speak the truth, the person will pull the trigger. That type of lie is for ur death or survival. Now see this type of "Lie" When I used to attend Ile Kewu/Madrasat. My mallim told us that when Amstrong (Astronout) landed on space/moon, he heard some thing like a song/call from the comet and he later zoomed his binocular towards the direction where the sound was coming from, he later realized that there was a mosque on comet and the sound is call for prayer (allahu akbar call for asalat). Then I was in secondary school, I was still naive. When I later had access to research/science document (thank God for internet), I even read one book written by Armstrong. Now I realize that comet is composed of chemical substance. There is no validity in the cock and bull story. I even did research on Comets and stars. This is one of million lies these people spread about islam everyday. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by vedaxcool(m): 1:18pm On Aug 11, 2011 |
frosbel: Can you point where I lied? Fanatic you never cease to amaze me. |
| Re: Are Muslims Permitted To Lie? by Ayoobscom(m): 2:45pm On Aug 11, 2011 |
@islamrules If at childhooh your Mallam lie to you and you grow up to find out the truth.Your mallam may have lied just to improve your Iman. Your Mallam may have committed a sin if the lie was to tarnish other religion, eg, cooking a lie about christianity to discourage you No matter how i agree however to whatsoever is disgusting about lying in every forms of definitions of individuals or circumstances there's nothing on this earth is as horrible as BAD INTENTION I have read bible a lot and this is my finding ; Bible lost its true wordings to refurbishing and manipulatory inclusions and ommission which ordinarrily shouldn't be in any contrariness to the HOLY QUR'AN, what is said by God will forver be superior to what is written by human's (poets) I have asked 45 questions about Bible and nobody has been able to answer one, instead they become dangerously nervous and dumb. Live and lets live.period, |
No.........3......who???? / Atefeh Sahaaleh; "protecting" Muslim Women By Hanging! / What Qur'an Says About Jesus
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