14 August 2011 Last updated at 07:47 ET

[size=14pt]BP 'cannot find skilled workers[/size]


A shortage of engineering skills in the UK could hamper growth at BP's North Sea operations, an executive has said.

In July, BP announced plans to invest £3bn in redeveloping two oil fields in the North Sea, a move that was expected to create hundreds of new jobs.

But Trevor Garlick, head of BP's North Sea operations, said the company could struggle to fill the available roles.


"Getting hold of the right people is a real issue for us," Mr Garlick told the Sunday Telegraph.

"We are hiring a lot of people, but we are also an exporter of a couple of hundred people to other regions [in BP]. We are a centre for recruiting elsewhere."

The rest of the company viewed its North Sea operations as a "training ground", with talented workers snapped up to fill posts overseas, Mr Garlick said.

Oil and gas companies are expected to create some 15,000 new jobs in the UK over the next five years, according to the latest research from the industry body Opito.

But it also said that more than half of the 144 companies surveyed cited attracting appropriately skilled staff as their number one challenge

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14521890

@topic,

And yet, a number of imbeciles will take to the streets in blind rage to destroy what others have built because they say they can't find jobs. I know a number of friends and former colleagues who were recruited right from Nigeria to fill vacant posts both in the US and the United Kingdom. It didn't matter that they were Blacks or Albinos. What matters most was their skills which make them relevant to the society they were going. The in-bred mentality in today's youths who feel they are entitled to every good thing of life irrespective of what they bring to the table is further going to lead to a fall in everyone's standard of living. May God help us.

Tayo-D:

@topic,

And yet, a number of imbeciles will take to the streets in blind rage to destroy what others have built because they say they can't find jobs.  I know a number of friends and former colleagues who were recruited right from Nigeria to fill vacant posts both in the US and the United Kingdom.  It didn't matter that they were Blacks or Albinos.  What matters most was their skills which make them relevant to the society they were going.  The in-bred mentality in today's youths who feel they are entitled to every good thing of life irrespective of what they bring to the table is further going to lead to a fall in everyone's standard of living.  May God help us.

First of all the WORLD is short of Engineers - they do not grow on trees you know. Your so called friends were recruited to become slaves and the Black British youngsters live in areas neglected by the British government - why because its expensive to educate them ok.  They would rather these young people live in poverty or get an unskilled, job with no future.  They are not gutless Nigerian kids they will stand up for their rights. 

[size=13pt]Why are these so called Engineers from Nigeria not developing the Nigerian economy? would it be fair to call them lazy or unpatriotic?[/size]

Look at it from the UKs perspective, would you do spend millions on young children from poor areas or employ middle-class, Bottom licking Africans who think the white man is GOD for half the price without paying a penny for their education?

nolongTing,

Your so called friends were recruited to become slaves and the Black British youngsters live in areas neglected by the British government - why because its expensive to educate them ok. They would rather these young people live in poverty or get an unskilled, job with no future. They are not gutless Nigerian kids they will stand up for their rights

How does one begin to address this stupid mentality that it is okay to drop out from school, smoke pot all day and expect to move ahead in life? You have a wrong attitude to life, my bro. When you are skilled and a professional, you do not work for others, but for yourself. The skills you acquire is what will position you for a great future. You can migrate to do whatever job you want while seeking the highest bidder for your services or starting your own business. That is the way to emancipation and not slavery.

Look at it from the UKs perspective, would you do spend millions on young children from poor areas or employ middle-class, Bottom licking Africans who think the white man is GOD for half the price without paying a penny for their education?

Tell me, who spends more to educate their people, the UK or Nigeria?

Tayo-D:

nolongTing,
How does one begin to address this silly mentality that it is okay to drop out from school, smoke pot all day and expect to move ahead in life?  You have a wrong attitude to life, my bro.  When you are skilled and a professional, you do not work for others, but for yourself.  The skills you acquire is what will position you for a great future.  You can migrate to do whatever job you want while seeking the highest bidder for your services or starting your own business.  That is the way to emancipation and not slavery.

Calm down Tayo I have an Ivy league education, I was talking about the plight of Black Youngsters in deprived areas of the UK. I am most definitely a skilled professional and I do work for myself lol! So I should be giving you advice. Those engineers should be entrepreneurial and develop their fathers land not come to Europe and America as servants - that is the way to slavery not emancipation.

In britain the system itself hammers into the heads of people from deprived background that they are not capable of highly skilled.Highly skilled professions like medicine,engineering,even law seems to be the exclusive reserve for rich and upper middle class.

British class system is effortlessly draconic.

redsun:

In britain the system itself hammers into the heads of people from deprived background that they are not capable of highly skilled.Highly skilled professions like medicine,engineering,even seems to be the exclusive reserve for rich and upper middle class.

British class system is effortlessly draconic.

Spot on, many Nigerians do not understand the social engineering that takes place in England, this leads them to jump to wild, ignorant conclusions.  often labelling young black people as lazy and unambitious - that assumption could not be more further from the truth.  The statistics show that young black males are among the best performers up to the age of 10 then afterwards its a downward spiral (when they start their secondary education). 

I teach maths voluntarily in my local area to help and some of the children are incredibly bright but were labelled as having learning difficulties in their school! So such labels can be used to stunt the intellectual growth of a child.  In addition to being seen as having learning difficulties, young black males tend to be labelled as violent and anti-social which usually leads to their exclusion from formal education.  I was lucky that my parents sent me to Nigeria when I was 11years and getting expelled almost on a monthly basis.  Then I returned and took FULL advantage of the educational system; but we cannot be too harsh in our judgement of the less fortunate. 

[size=15pt]"There were 307,840 suspensions (fixed term exclusions)at secondary level, a 5% drop on last year. Black Caribbean pupils were three times more likely to be permanently excluded than the school population as a whole."[/size]

I must also add that culture plays a big part, there is a difference between Black caribbean and Black African children.  Black Caribbean's have a higher percentage of single mothers who also have a higher propensity to have relationships with non-black males.  Whilst their African counter-parts tend to maintain a two parent household and do not mix with non-africans as much.  In fact Africans, especially Nigerians have less single mothers than the white population; this goes to prove that the Marriage institution is pertinent to the stable upbringing of a child.

@nolongTing,

Na wa for this your name sef.

Calm down Tayo I have an Ivy league education, I was talking about the plight of Black Youngsters in deprived areas of the UK.

What makes them deprived, lack of money, opportunity or the drive to do the hard work to take advantage of the system they live in?

I am most definitely a skilled professional and I do work for myself lol!

I'm happy for you.  So you will tell your fellow Blacks that the way to emancipation is not to riot but to make themselves economically viable.  Capitalism is the only system that places every tribe, race and religion on equal footing.  If as a Black man, you let an entrepreneur know that you will provide him with a ROI of more than double that of your competition, the investor will not care what your race or religion is.  He is after mullah, and does not care who makes it for him.  This is what we need to teach our people, instead of stoking racial sentiments.

So I should be giving you advice.

I'll take your advise like I do every other.  Like fish, I will eat the meat and spit out the bones.

Those engineers should be entrepreneurial and develop their fathers land not come to Europe and America as servants - that is the way to slavery not emancipation.

I worked for about 5 years as an Engineer in Nigeria before moving to the US.  The difference is very clear in terms of experience, exposure and technical education.  I have learnt a lot here than I believe I would have learnt staying in Naija, and Naija will be better for it if I choose to go back and continue my professional pursuit back home.

@nolongTing,

In fact Africans, especially Nigerians have less single mothers than the white population; this goes to prove that the Marriage institution is pertinent to the stable upbringing of a child.

Now that is the conclusion of the whole matter!!!! I will vote for you if you campaign for office with full intention to address this social problem. People blame the White man while ignoring the social factors that add to the whole wahala. A stable home is integral to building a stable society!

Tayo-D:

@nolongTing,

Na wa for this your name sef.

I know, I chose the name based on Nigerian slangs but what do i know lol!

Tayo-D:


What makes them deprived, lack of money, opportunity or the drive to do the hard work to take advantage of the system they live in?

I am not making excuses for all of them but remember they have no idea, or should i say direct experience with the real poverty and deprivation in Africa - its all relative.

Tayo-D:

I'm happy for you.  So you will tell your fellow Blacks that the way to emancipation is not to riot but to make themselves economically viable.  Capitalism is the only system that places every tribe, race and religion on equal footing.  If as a Black man, you let an entrepreneur know that you will provide him with a ROI of more than double that of your competition, the investor will not care what your race or religion is.  He is after mullah, and does not care who makes it for him.  This is what we need to teach our people, instead of stoking racial sentiments.

First off I am African not Black; and again you sound confident and ambitious but would you be so upbeat if you was raised in a concrete jungle with no father, a mother that was barely around, gangs and cops eager to lock you up? You probably was raised in Nigeria by a good family within a stable community with no experience of racism. Have you heard of henry louis gates? You should check out a documentary he made about African Americans youngsters, he sounded just like you until he decided to investigate the matter further.

Tayo-D:

I'll take your advise like I do every other.  Like fish, I will eat the meat and spit out the bones.
I worked for about 5 years as an Engineer in Nigeria before moving to the US.  The difference is very clear in terms of experience, exposure and technical education.  I have learnt a lot here than I believe I would have learnt staying in Naija, and Naija will be better for it if I choose to go back and continue my professional pursuit back home.

good point, you are one of the lucky ones.

Tayo-D:

@nolongTing,
Now that is the conclusion of the whole matter!!!! I will vote for you if you campaign for office with full intention to address this social problem. People blame the White man while ignoring the social factors that add to the whole wahala. A stable home is integral to building a stable society!

ha! ha! I don't think i could survive the poli[b]tricks[/b] of Nigeria But on a serious note I agree with you the Family is key.

The pressure of western world is not family friendly,even the humble africans are gradually falling prey to the epidemic of broken homes.

The key factor in parenting is understanding the fundamentals,it doesn't matter whether you are a single mum or dad,once you no what is vital in life,you will pass it on to your offspring.

The problem with white parenting is that they pass on hatred,segregation,racial barriers and classifications to their children which they in turn carry on to the nest generation.The circle never seems to break because children are taught wrongly.

@nolongTing,

So what or how do we solve this problem?  Is the solution in riots and hatred for the community that does its best to sustain and give dignified lives to dead weights?  Where are the African leaders in the UK? Who will address this problem tackling it head-on?  The govt can never take the role of the father or mother in the home.  About time we figured that out and face the real problem.

This is one of the main reasons I hate socialism.  It leads to the eventual breaking of homes and family.  It gves the notion that the govt is all in all and the social fabric that hods the family together is broken through its practice.

Tayo-D:

@nolongTing,

So what or how do we solve this problem?  Is the solution in riots and hatred for the community that does its best to sustain and give dignified lives to dead weights? 

I could write ten pages on that where do I start? Lol! The solution would be to slow down the economic cuts and invest in the deprived areas – but they won't!

The government scrapped a payment called the ema (educational maintenace allowance) which was a payment for college students.  Although education is free for college education to prepare for university or a job; many poor students from poor background relied on this payment. They went on a peaceful demonstration and the government still cancelled it.

The government tripled university fees!

The government is going to cut benefits to unemployed people.

The government reduced the police force.

The point is the government is making so many cuts to public sector this kind of unrest was inevitable.  Remember there were riots over the university fees last year. Mainly white middle-class kids vandalised Trafalgar square and attacked the future king of England; was there this much outcry? but when black kids are involved – its a serious problem.

There are many other social solutions issues to do with assimilation and culture.

Tayo-D:

Where are the African leaders in the UK? Who will address this problem tackling it head-on? 

Its the usual mix of pastors, ex-criminals who have reformed and conformist politicians – hopeless.  Mix this with celebrity role models such as millionaire rappers and footballers earning £250,000 per week and we have a complete mess.

Tayo-D:

The govt can never take the role of the father or mother in the home.  About time we figured that out and face the real problem.

This is one of the main reasons I hate socialism.  It leads to the eventual breaking of homes and family.  It gves the notion that the govt is all in all and the social fabric that hods the family together is broken through its practice.

I could not agree more, the African parents need to adopt an African approach to raising their children whilst the government needs to give them the freedom to do so.

@nolongTing,

I think we agree more than we disagree. I will however like to address some of the things you mentioned.

The government scrapped a payment called the ema (educational maintenace allowance) which was a payment for college students. Although education is free for college education to prepare for university or a job; many poor students from poor background relied on this payment. They went on a peaceful demonstration and the government still cancelled it.

I don't know much about the UK system so my response is based partly on what I read here from you. What is the purpose of ema? Someone (not your father or mother) provides you with free college education and you think they have not done enough? Where is the shared responsibility? Where is the family structure to take up the slack?

The government tripled university fees!

This does not make sense. What likely happened is that government removed the subsidies. This translates to an increase in the fees. Hey, even the govt is broke. If many of those broke-asses get off theire lazy bottoms and do some work, the same govt will have enough to attend to other needs. There are more dead weights than people doing the heavy lifting. This is bound to happen.

The government is going to cut benefits to unemployed people.

What have these unemployed provided into the government coffers? You should only reap where you have sowed. Drawing on unemployment when you did not contribute to it is immoral in my opinion. As long as you are not disabled, I see no reason why you can't find a job that will sustain you and keep you from being a social miscreant.

The government reduced the police force.

This must be budget related as well. Did you ever go on riot in your house when your parents cut benefits due to hard times? Many families - hard working families for that matter are cutting back because of the economic climate. To think those who contribute least to make the system work are now working hard to pull it down is preposterous in my opinion.

The point is the government is making so many cuts to public sector this kind of unrest was inevitable. Remember there were riots over the university fees last year. Mainly white middle-class kids vandalised Trafalgar square and attacked the future king of England; was there this much outcry? but when black kids are involved – its a serious problem.

So the govt cuts are not directed primarily at the black or economic low-end communities. This validates my points even more.

There are many other social solutions issues to do with assimilation and culture.

This I agree with. I believe the entire European community is looking at this and wondering it's about time they scrutinize their immigration policy. What's the point of allowing so many people in who are not ready and willing to assimilate? The riots no doubt will fuel anti-immigration sentiments.

Tayo-D:

@nolongTing,

I think we agree more than we disagree.  I will however like to address some of the things you mentioned.
I don't know much about the UK system so my response is based partly on what I read here from you.  What is the purpose of ema? Someone (not your father or mother) provides you with free college education and you think they have not done enough? Where is the shared responsibility?  Where is the family structure to take up the slack?

lol! ema is a grant - payment of about £35 per week to students from very poor backgrounds. Like I mentioned earlier there is a high incidence of single mothers on benefits so:

1. Just leave them to take care of themselves
2. invest in the young ones.

You choose 1. I choose 2.

Tayo-D:


This does not make sense.  What likely happened is that government removed the subsidies.  This translates to an increase in the fees.  Hey, even the govt is broke.  If many of those broke-asses get off theire lazy bottoms and do some work, the same govt will have enough to attend to other needs.  There are more dead weights than people doing the heavy lifting.  This is bound to happen.

Thats a good point the government has subsidised the education for decades and now they are trying to emulate the American system (I am sure you are familiar with).  So I hate to agree with you but they had to raise the fees to:

1. maintain the competitiveness if UK universities
2. save money
3. reduce the incentive for youngsters to see university as a right rather than a priviledge; there are so many graduates working in supermarkets it ridiculous, they should have embarked on vocational studies instead.

However unemployment is rising and they have not expanded the provision of vocational education - where is the hope and future for the young?

Tayo-D:

What have these unemployed provided into the government coffers? You should only reap where you have sowed.  Drawing on unemployment when you did not contribute to it is immoral in my opinion.  As long as you are not disabled, I see no reason why you can't find a job that will sustain you and keep you from being a social miscreant.

This must be budget related as well. Did you ever go on riot in your house when your parents cut benefits due to hard times?  Many families - hard working families for that matter are cutting back because of the economic climate.  To think those who contribute least to make the system work are now working hard to pull it down is preposterous in my opinion.

lol! let me guess you are not a fan of Obama lol!

Tayo-D:


So the govt cuts are not directed primarily at the black or economic low-end communities.  This validates my points even more.

Well, the black community will be affected more by the cuts, also bear in mind that the British establishment carried out an investigation and concluded that the country is "institutionally racist", implying that most institutions have employees that engage in "unwitting racism".  This means that they are racist without even knowing it; but i guess this dose not wash with you dose it? i can see you shaking your head saying nonsense! lol!

Tayo-D:

This I agree with.  I believe the entire European community is looking at this and wondering it's about time they scrutinize their immigration policy.  What's the point of allowing so many people in who are not ready and willing to assimilate?  The riots no doubt will fuel anti-immigration sentiments.

Anti-immigration is fuelled by the politicians on a regular basis - its a constant theme in Europe and it reaches fever pitch around election time.

Are you sure you are Nigerian? lol! whose side are you on?  I would say we are on the same tangent however you prefer a more hardline approach whilst i think its better to show more compassion.  Why do I think this way? I think its a better approach to keep the boat sailing whilst preparing the society at large for the more streamlined approach you favour.  The British government need to implement the cuts more slowly - they have been advised to do so but they want to get the country out of the red asap.

@nolongTing,

Are you sure you are Nigerian? lol! whose side are you on?

Thoroughbred through and through.  You can't mistake the accent

I would say we are on the same tangent however you prefer a more hardline approach whilst i think its better to show more compassion.

This so-called compassion is what has brought the society to this point.  The government is not about compassion.  It is an institution with delegated power to force compliance with societal laws.  The govt is meant to ensure there is justice, and remember, justice is blind.  It does not consider people's race, color or background to mete out judgment.  It is folly in my opinion to think the govt should be used as a vehicle to mete out compassion. That is the role of the Red Cross and other organizations.

Why do I think this way? I think its a better approach to keep the boat sailing whilst preparing the society at large for the more streamlined approach you favour.

The truth is that politicians make decisions to favor them in the next election.  Why should we leave people's lives in the hands of those who do not think further than the next election cycle?

The British government need to implement the cuts more slowly - they have been advised to do so but they want to get the country out of the red asap.

Addicts are best helped most times by getting them to go "cold turkey".  While I know the situation is not as simplistic as may have been potrayed by either of us, any attempt to maintain the status quo at this point is only going to lead to anarchy, a la Greece.

Tayo-D:


This so-called compassion is what has brought the society to this point.  The government is not about compassion. 

Every action has a reaction, if you do not give the under-class the opportunity to become upwardly mobile – society will pay the price.

Tayo-D:


It is an institution with delegated power to force compliance with societal laws.  The govt is meant to ensure there is justice, and remember, justice is blind.  [b]It does not consider people's race, colour or background [/b]to mete out judgment.  It is folly in my opinion to think the govt should be used as a vehicle to mete out compassion. That is the role of the Red Cross and other organizations.

You are either naïve or being cynical if you think ones social standing and ethnicity has no bearing on the outcome of justice.  You are living in a country which judges everybody by the melanin in their skin and then their wallet, did you not know that? 

With all due respect America and Nigeria have more social problems than England.  In the US most African Americans have been dumbed down with “over paid”, “under educated” celebrities, where are the African American leaders in America?  Have you not noticed that “Black” is a dirty word for the new black political class? There are no African American billionaires in America now except Oprah a woman,  and all the Billionaires have been entertainers – glorified jesters. 

African Americans are 12.6% of the population yet there are only 6 African American ceos of fortune 500 companies – thats less than 1%.  Do you still think race and colour dose not matter? In 2010 it was revealed that 1 in 5  Black people living in London were stopped and searched by the police between 2007-2008 – they admitted that they targeted ethnic minorities http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8567528.stm I know its a similar story in America. What about welfare and African Americans?

Lets be realistic politicians will implement policies to gain votes and popularity and that usually means catering for the majority. In the US that happens to be White people.  Obama is a setup, he has sleepwalked African Americans in America into doom, Africa and African Americans are worse off under that skinny coconut.  What future do African Americans have in America? You guys are next mark my words, Obama is already preparing the army to deal with the unrest and as usual it will all be blamed on African Americans.  I just hope that by then you have stopped your daily doses of WHITE media propaganda and learnt the game.

Tayo-D:


It is folly in my opinion to think the govt should be used as a vehicle to mete out compassion. That is the role of the Red Cross and other organizations.

You seem to be transfixed with the word “compassion”, are you not a christian? Whats wrong with it? Politics is not just a business entity, by compassion I mean that the working class and under class must not be neglected otherwise the cost to society will be greater in the future. 

You advocate discriminating against the 'have nots' in society and taking the moral high ground – in politics such favouritism will spell doom.  You should know that professionalism means you do the right thing and remain objective.

If there is no compassion in government why do the western governments have welfare states? why do the western governments dish out aid every year to the so called Third world? Why are the western governments implementing a so-called no-fly zone over Libya under the cover of “we need to protect the citizens”,  maybe we should switch this conversation to digital circuits instead – politics is not logical Tayo.

Tayo-D:

The truth is that politicians make decisions to favour them in the next election.  Why should we leave people's lives in the hands of those who do not think further than the next election cycle?

Who are “we”? I think this applies to all people regardless of colour or race. 

Tayo-D:

Addicts are best helped most times by getting them to go "cold turkey".  While I know the situation is not as simplistic as may have been portrayed by either of us, any attempt to maintain the status quo at this point is only going to lead to anarchy, a la Greece.

I never portrayed the problem as simplistic, please point out where I did so. My point is that the situation is complex and whilst a more sustainable social program is being devised the underclass need to be catered for. Otherwise, there will be more unrest on a much larger scale.  The welfare given to these individuals is subsistence income, without it they will have to turn to crime which will be a much greater cost to society.

Comparing Greece and the UK is a false comparison, the Greek politicians are worse than those in Nigeria – they were corrupt plain and simple.

The nigerian or african family structure has also broken down for the most part, leaving us in the same situation as our black, non-african counterparts.

At this rate, i hope africans wont have to start calling on melanasian blacks for assistance with value systems and also marriage.

Nice discussion btw Tayo & nolong. I agree with both of you - to different degrees When Tayo said this:
 

Tayo-D:

This so-called compassion is what has brought the society to this point.  The government is not about compassion.  It is an institution with delegated power to force compliance with societal laws.  The govt is meant to ensure there is justice, and remember, justice is blind.  It does not consider people's race, color or background to mete out judgment. It is folly in my opinion to think the govt should be used as a vehicle to mete out compassion. That is the role of the Red Cross and other organizations.

 
I agree, the govt should function objectively . . . but the problem is

nolongTing:

You are either naïve or being cynical if you think ones social standing and ethnicity has no bearing on the outcome of justice. You are living in a country which judges everybody by the melanin in their skin and then their wallet, did you not know that? 

  . . . although I will not go to the extent of saying this prejudice is rampant & widespread and is the main issue that 'prevents' blacks/AAs from advancing into diverse kinds of professional fields of occupation.

With all due respect America and Nigeria have more social problems than England.  In the US most African Americans have been dumbed down with “over paid”, “under educated” celebrities, where are the African American leaders in America?  Have you not noticed that “Black” is a dirty word for the new black political class? There are no African American billionaires in America now except Oprah a woman,  and all the Billionaires have been entertainers – glorified jesters. 
African Americans are 12.6% of the population yet there are only 6 African American ceos of fortune 500 companies – thats less than 1%.  Do you still think race and colour dose not matter? In 2010 it was revealed that 1 in 5  Black people living in London were stopped and searched by the police between 2007-2008 – they admitted that they targeted ethnic minorities http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8567528.stm I know its a similar story in America. What about welfare and African Americans?

And I will argue black people are the ones - for the most part - dumbing ourselves down. While it is true that as long as it is human beings that operate the system, there will always be prejudice - this excuse will no longer suffice, especially with all the great strides the country has made over the last half century - I mean as Tayo said, a black man from a broken home with a drunk for a father is president afterall.

  Turn on BET and see what black people are telling black children to aspire to be. The 'black leaders' for the most part do not help either. They seem to me to forever foster this sentiment of 'oppression' from the 'white man' - thereby breeding generation after generation of angry youth who just fold their arms waiting for reparations in one form or another. And when there is an accomplished black like Cosby who dares to criticise the culture, they are immediately attacked as 'sell-outs' or 'uncle-toms'. In the schools I've been to, the AA kids are never known to populate the libraries or spend after hours with professors. Is it the system that is forcing them to be lazy and unambitious? It is true some racist employers will pick Richard Smith over Jaquan Shaheem, so we thank God that companies abound - if company A is stupid enough to overlook your 4.0 gpa and shiny work experience because of the arrangement of vowels in your name, best believe company B will not. The times I've personally experienced racism I can count on one hand - and hell, I live in the Northeast! lol

Someone (I think Tayo and you agreed) attributed society's problem to the breakdown of the family unit - I could not agree more wholeheartedly. A poor black kid from a single family home (we still have the highest % of this if I'm not mistaken) . . . he grows up with limited, undisciplined values - and this is reflected in his relationships with school, jobs, authority and the society as a whole. In a way I don't blame him - he's merely re-enacting all he knows, what he's been taught, thereby perpetuating the endless cycle. Of course some smart ones break free and acheive things - and we can point to them as an example that your history does not have to define your destiny.

Lets be realistic politicians will implement policies to gain votes and popularity and that usually means catering for the majority. In the US that happens to be White people. Obama is a setup, he has sleepwalked African Americans in America into doom, Africa and African Americans are worse off under that skinny coconut.  What future do African Americans have in America? You guys are next mark my words, Obama is already preparing the army to deal with the unrest and as usual it will all be blamed on African Americans.  I just hope that by then you have stopped your daily doses of WHITE media propaganda and learnt the game.

Honestly, I don't blame Obama for the black community's coronation of him as their savior. Did he send anybody to throw common sense to the wind, and believe that a single man will waltz into office and wave about his magic schtick and transform America into a nubian paradise?    This is part of why I say we must hold ourselves accountable, and stop passing the buck to everyone else but ourselves. Obama is president to ALL americans - not just the black ones, that is the oath he swore. He cannot be expected to show favor to blacks over other races - no more than it would've been right for Bill Clinton to favor his own skin-kind at the expense of blacks. This is where AA's continue to stumble and miss the mark.
 

You seem to be transfixed with the word “compassion”, are you not a christian? Whats wrong with it? Politics is not just a business entity, by compassion I mean that the working class and under class must not be neglected otherwise the cost to society will be greater in the future. 

You advocate discriminating against the 'have nots' in society and taking the moral high ground – in politics such favouritism will spell doom.  You should know that professionalism means you do the right thing and remain objective.

If there is no compassion in government why do the western governments have welfare states? why do the western governments dish out aid every year to the so called Third world? Why are the western governments implementing a so-called no-fly zone over Libya under the cover of “we need to protect the citizens”,  maybe we should switch this conversation to digital circuits instead – politics is not logical Tayo.

  I think I understand Tayo's discomfort with the word 'compassion' when used in the context of this subject. I also understand your classification of the Welfare programs as 'compassionate'. The problem lies in the rampant abuse of the system by certain people of all races by the way, who would rather receive a handout than work for food. Certain people who believe that they're entitled to a piece of somebody else's pie. Certain people who will riot in the streets and burn down their own neighbor's properties simply because they're angry they're not as rich as they would like to be.

  The problem is a large portion of this camp has been thrown under the umbrella of 'compassion' - thereby smearing groups of poor/disabled/elderly people who genuinely need help from the govt (and by the govt I mean us) and lumping them all together with these cheats. And then when a person of conservative persuation speaks against this - he/she will probably be accused of 'not caring for the poor'. I'm not sure but I think Tayo believes the govt. should hands off completely, I won't go that far  I think it has its place - and needs desparately to be fixed as so many needy people are going without because the leeches are sucking where they do not belong. It just breaks my heart cos with what the govt is taking in - it can take care of the needy, disabled, out of work etc population ten times over if we just fixed the leaks.

My point is that the situation is complex and whilst a more sustainable social program is being devised the underclass need to be catered for. Otherwise, there will be more unrest on a much larger scale.  The welfare given to these individuals is subsistence income, without it they will have to turn to crime which will be a much greater cost to society.

What would you define as the parameters for a person to be classified as a member of the 'underclass'? People who have basic necessities such as food, shelter and healthcare surely cannot fall under this category? And I'd your comment on whether/why you believe the UK system systematically handicapps minorities from advancing.

Comparing Greece and the UK is a false comparison, the[b] Greek politicians are worse than those in Nigeria[/b] – they were corrupt plain and simple.

I thought they said Naija no dey carry last? I spent a bit of time in greece last year, and my overall impression led me to believe that their 'attitude' problem is just as bad as their economic one.

@nolongTing,

Every action has a reaction, if you do not give the under-class the opportunity to become upwardly mobile – society will pay the price.

The key word here is "opportunity", not hand outs. History, both in the UK and the US suggests the hand-outs have become the problem. Like Bill Cosby commented about Section 8, it was designed for you to move in, move up and move out. Experience however shows that people have moved in to stay for the rest of their lives. I used to own properties that I rented out here in the US. I had a number of section 8 tenants that were able bodied. In most cases, you will find the tenant, her mother and even her daughter all on Section 8. It has become a generational curse even though it was designed to be a blessing.

I always like to say that the road to every destructive government program is paved with good intentions.

You are either naïve or being cynical if you think ones social standing and ethnicity has no bearing on the outcome of justice. You are living in a country which judges everybody by the melanin in their skin and then their wallet, did you not know that?

Call me a dreamer. A fellow dreamer called Martin Luther King Jr also dreamt for the day when no one will be judged by skin color or race, but by the content of their character. Seriously, the ideal is for the govt to be color-blind in all facets of its operations. I'm sure you've seen the statue of lady justice. She holds a scale on one hand to judge, a sword to execute justice and is blindfolded to eliminate favoritism based on race, religion or social status.

The government starts to get it wrong when it treats its citizens preferentially based on religion, tribe, race or status. The government must only recognize its citizens as individuals and every action must be taken to ensure that the individual freedom is not impeded.

You seem to be transfixed with the word “compassion”, are you not a christian? Whats wrong with it? Politics is not just a business entity, by compassion I mean that the working class and under class must not be neglected otherwise the cost to society will be greater in the future.

Compassion as used in popular parlance today means the ability of a politician to play "Mr Nice Guy" with other people's money. Compassion in my dictionary, means a voluntary action of an individual or organization to give up its resources to help those less fortunate without seeking anything in return. The government in almost all cases never meets this criteria.

If there is no compassion in government why do the western governments have welfare states? why do the western governments dish out aid every year to the so called Third world? Why are the western governments implementing a so-called no-fly zone over Libya under the cover of “we need to protect the citizens”, maybe we should switch this conversation to digital circuits instead – politics is not logical Tayo.

Those aids are not for naught. They are usually given to promote or protect the giving nation's interest. Why does the US keep doling out money to Isreal and Pakistan every year when there are many more nations that are worse off? The US does it for it's self interest and not out of compassion. What about Libya? You think Obama cares for anybody in Libya? His actions were based on the need to promote himself and project the US as a fore for good in the region. Why didn't he interfere with Syria that has killed far more civilians in a few months than Ghadafi has done in power for decades? You call that compassion?

I never portrayed the problem as simplistic, please point out where I did so. My point is that the situation is complex and whilst a more sustainable social program is being devised the underclass need to be catered for.

I didn't insinuate that you simplified the problem. All I meant to say is that this matter is more complex than can be handled with this back and forth over the www. And by the way, every government intervention over the years has always compounded and not alleviate the problem. It's time to seek a new direction.

@topic,

After posting my last reply, I came across the following piece by Tyler Perry. It kinda dovetails to what we are talking about.  Anyway, I don't care if it does or not, the piece blessed my heart so much and I'm off to discuss it with my two little boys.  Who knows, one day, they may be required to deliver not only their parents, but the society as a whole.  We need deliverers.


A few days ago, I was in the car on my way to set when we stopped at a red light. I looked up from my script and saw a father walking across the street holding his son’s hand. The child couldn’t have been more then 2 or 3years old, this kid was giddy with joy. I watched this man and his son go into the park and start running and playing. The light changed and as we drove away, I turned around in the back seat to watch them until they were out of sight. My eyes filled with water, I thought to myself, this is really a strange reaction. I was thinking, why did I have such a strong emotional reaction to this father and son? It didn’t take long for me to realize that it was because I never had those kind of experiences, never knew that kind of unconditional joy, never knew what it felt like to be wanted and adored as a child.

Which made me think of this question. I wonder if the man I called 'Daddy' as a child, knew then what he knows now, would he have treated me any differently? If he had known, the little boy that depended on him for food and shelter would grow up to be a man that he would have to depend on for food and shelter, would he have made different choices? I realized that my emotion to that moment was about this man loving his child in the purest sense. No matter what the future holds for that little boy, he will always have that moment with his daddy loving him, for him.

There is an old song written by the Gaither’s called, MARY, DID YOU KNOW? It’s a beautiful song asking Mary, the mother of Jesus, the question, “Did you know that her baby boy would come to save the world?” The lyrics go on to ask, “Mary did you know that when you kissed the little baby, you kissed the face of God?” My favorite lyric is this one, “Mary, did you know that the child that you delivered will soon deliver you?” That last line makes me think of my own mother. Before she died she often said to me that she had no idea that her little baby boy would be able to take care of her the way I did. I get so much joy knowing that I could and I did. That lets me sleep at night. Mom, I thank you! You helped me be able to do that. God bless you!

I want to leave you with these questions. It’s for every parent, the good and the bad. DO YOU KNOW who is in your house? DO YOU KNOW whom you're raising, and will the child that you delivered, have to deliver you in your old age? Think about it, and know that when you kiss that innocent face of your child, you kiss the face of God.

God Bless, talk soon.

http://mobile.tylerperry.com/messages/2011-08-15.php

Nonsense,i thought god predestined jesus to be whole and a deliverer. Why cant he make he make d youths to deliver their people without fuss? You believe too much that why u are making out urself as a redneck when all u are is a sheep being led to the alter,a sheep in the midst of wolves that could be turn apart with a minute trigger of hunting instinct.

redsun:

Nonsense[b],i thought god predestined jesus to be whole and a deliverer[/b]. Why cant he make he make d youths to deliver their people without fuss? You believe too much that why u are making out urself as a redneck when all u are is a sheep being led to the alter,a sheep in the midst of wolves that could be turn apart with a minute trigger of hunting instinct.

Please take Jesus out of this equation. He is the deliverer indeed.

Is he? With all these neo nazis post u are seeing on this forum these days,telling u how fu.cked up and brainwashed u are as a creature,u still believe in dem bull,shit. What u hear from one oyinbo is what every oyinbo think of u. They think u are stu,pid for listening to them and not having ur own original views of life.

redsun:

Is he? With all these neo nazis post u are seeing on this forum these days,telling u how fu.cked up and brainwashed u are as a creature,u still believe in dem bull,poo. What u hear from one oyinbo is what every oyinbo think of u. They think u are stu,pid for listening to them and not having your own original views of life.

Huh?

^^^^^

"Huh?" is indeed the appropriate response to redsun's last two posts.

JeSoul:

Nice discussion btw Tayo & nolong. I agree with both of you - to different degrees When Tayo said this:

I agree, the govt should function objectively . . . but the problem is

. . . although I will not go to the extent of saying this prejudice is rampant & widespread and is the main issue that 'prevents' blacks/AAs from advancing into diverse kinds of professional fields of occupation.

And I will argue black people are the ones - for the most part - dumbing ourselves down. While it is true that as long as it is human beings that operate the system, there will always be prejudice - this excuse will no longer suffice, especially with all the great strides the country has made over the last half century - I mean as Tayo said, a black man from a broken home with a drunk for a father is president afterall.

Turn on BET and see what black people are telling black children to aspire to be. The 'black leaders' for the most part do not help either. They seem to me to forever foster this sentiment of 'oppression' from the 'white man' - thereby breeding generation after generation of angry youth who just fold their arms waiting for reparations in one form or another.

oh! what the heck, 480 years of slavery, decades of colonialism, decades of economic exploitation, no compensation, its all an excuse lets forget about it and make sure Jews get compensated and teach our children to mark the end of the Shoah.

JeSoul:

And when there is an accomplished black like Cosby who dares to criticise the culture, they are immediately attacked as 'sell-outs' or 'uncle-toms'. In the schools I've been to, the AA kids are never known to populate the libraries or spend after hours with professors. Is it the system that is forcing them to be lazy and unambitious?

Bill cosby? Is he that so called black conservative? Can you tell me what he is trying to conserve please?

JeSoul:

It is true some racist employers will pick Richard Smith over Jaquan Shaheem, so we thank God that companies abound - if company A is silly enough to overlook your 4.0 gpa and shiny work experience because of the arrangement of vowels in your name, best believe company B will not. The times I've personally experienced racism I can count on one hand - and hell, I live in the Northeast! Lol

Fascinating, so people cannot see what colour you are?  Maybe racism is just in black peoples imagination.

JeSoul:

Someone (I think Tayo and you agreed) attributed society's problem to the breakdown of the family unit - I could not agree more wholeheartedly. A poor black kid from a single family home (we still have the highest % of this if I'm not mistaken) . . .

Yes I agree but Africans have a lower proportion of single mothers.

JeSoul:

Honestly, I don't blame Obama for the black community's coronation of him as their savior. Did he send anybody to throw common sense to the wind, and believe that a single man will waltz into office and wave about his magic schtick and transform America into a nubian paradise?    This is part of why I say we must hold ourselves accountable, and stop passing the buck to everyone else but ourselves. Obama is president to ALL americans - not just the black ones, that is the oath he swore. He cannot be expected to show favor to blacks over other races - no more than it would've been right for Bill Clinton to favor his own skin-kind at the expense of blacks. This is where AA's continue to stumble and miss the mark.

All American president's favour White people at the expense of AAs including Obama, its the way the system was built; the AAs built the presidential palace and white people called it the WHITE house – its a symbol of the system.

JeSoul:

    I think I understand Tayo's discomfort with the word 'compassion' when used in the context of this subject. I also understand your classification of the Welfare programs as 'compassionate'. The problem lies in the rampant abuse of the system by certain people of all races by the way, who would rather receive a handout than work for food. Certain people who believe that they're entitled to a piece of somebody else's pie. Certain people who will riot in the streets and burn down their own neighbor's properties simply because they're angry they're not as rich as they would like to be.

  The problem is a large portion of this camp has been thrown under the umbrella of 'compassion' - thereby smearing groups of poor/disabled/elderly people who genuinely need help from the govt (and by the govt I mean us) and lumping them all together with these cheats. And then when a person of conservative persuation speaks against this - he/she will probably be accused of 'not caring for the poor'. I'm not sure but I think Tayo believes the govt. should hands off completely, I won't go that far  I think it has its place - and needs desparately to be fixed as so many needy people are going without because the leeches are sucking where they do not belong. It just breaks my heart cos with what the govt is taking in - it can take care of the needy, disabled, out of work etc population ten times over if we just fixed the leaks.

Every action has a reaction, the social unrest is a result of unfair social engineering – if you show a lack of compassion towards the 'have nots', be prepared to foot the bill for the damage.  I thought that individuals of a so-called
“conservative persuation” were catholics who believe in justice, fairness, charity and have the strongest sense of morals.

JeSoul:

What would you define as the parameters for a person to be classified as a member of the 'underclass'? People who have basic necessities such as food, shelter and healthcare surely cannot fall under this category?

Underclass? Well google gives me: The lowest social stratum in a country or community, consisting of the poor and unemployed.  But in a modern context I would define it as “a group of the poorest, uneducated, individuals who have been excluded from mainstream societal activities which inturn severly impedes their chance of upward social mobility”.

Tayo-D:

@nolongTing,
The key word here is "opportunity", not hand outs.  History, both in the UK and the US suggests the hand-outs have become the problem.  Like Bill Cosby commented about Section 8, it was designed for you to move in, move up and move out.  Experience however shows that people have moved in to stay for the rest of their lives.  I used to own properties that I rented out here in the US.  I had a number of section 8 tenants that were able bodied.  In most cases, you will find the tenant, her mother and even her daughter all on Section 8.  It has become a generational curse even though it was designed to be a blessing.

I agree with you all people need to be given the opportunity to achieve their aspirations.  Section 8? that must be unique to the U.S system and I would not quote Billy if I were you, I think its best to save that for the comedy section.  But when it comes to opportunities do you think that everyone gets a fair crack of the whip?

Tayo-D:

I always like to say that the road to every destructive government program is paved with good intentions.
Call me a dreamer.  A fellow dreamer called Martin Luther King Jr also dreamt for the day when no one will be judged by skin color or race, but by the content of their character.  Seriously, the ideal is for the govt to be color-blind in all facets of its operations.  I'm sure you've seen the statue of lady justice.  She holds a scale on one hand to judge, a sword to execute justice and is blindfolded to eliminate favoritism based on race, religion or social status.

You are pretty emotional for a guy with no compassion lol! As far as I know Lady Liberty was a gift of friendship from the French to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of Americas independence from the English. Not sure what this has to do with poor, deprived people. Lol!

I think any logical thinking person would be able to see that MLKs dream was impossible, one would have to be colour BLIND not to see another human beings skin colour.  Vision shapes our mind, so keep dreaming.

Tayo-D:

The government starts to get it wrong when it treats its citizens preferentially based on religion, tribe, race or status.  The government must only recognize its citizens as individuals and every action must be taken to ensure that the individual freedom is not impeded.

They must but they will not – what incentives are their for them yto do so? Being fair to ethnic minorities and other under-priviledged groups is a vote loser.

Tayo-D:

Compassion as used in popular parlance today means the ability of a politician to play "Mr Nice Guy" with other people's money.  Compassion in my dictionary, means a voluntary action of an individual or organization to give up its resources to help those less fortunate without seeking anything in return.  The government in almost all cases never meets this criteria.

I think that you are allergic to the word compassion, but yopur heroes Obama, Clinton, Bush and Regan used it

Tayo-D:

Those aids are not for naught.  They are usually given to promote or protect the giving nation's interest.  Why does the US keep doling out money to Isreal and Pakistan every year when there are many more nations that are worse off? The US does it for it's self interest and not out of compassion.

What about Libya?  You think Obama cares for anybody in Libya?  His actions were based on the need to promote himself and project the US as a fore for good in the region.  Why didn't he interfere with Syria that has killed far more civilians in a few months than Ghadafi has done in power for decades?  You call that compassion?

Yes the exploitative, ruthless ways of U.S.A incorporated are obvious, my point was put in a cynical manner to point out that they claim its for compassionate reasons but its not. Well, if so, why do you choose to believe they have a fair system? Why not explain the invisiblity of AAs in corporate America? Why not explain the absence of leadership in the AA community? Why choose to dream about the impossible?

Tayo-D:

I didn't insinuate that you simplified the problem.  All I meant to say is that this matter is more complex than can be handled with this back and forth over the www.  And by the way, every government intervention over the years has always compounded and not alleviate the problem.  It's time to seek a new direction.

What is your proposed solution in a nutshell?

Tayo-D:

@topic,

After posting my last reply, I came across the following piece by Tyler Perry. It kinda dovetails to what we are talking about.  Anyway, I don't care if it does or not, the piece blessed my heart so much and I'm off to discuss it with my two little boys.  Who knows, one day, they may be required to deliver not only their parents, but the society as a whole.  We need deliverers.


A few days ago, I was in the car on my way to set when we stopped at a red light. I looked up from my script and saw a father walking across the street holding his son’s hand. The child couldn’t have been more then 2 or 3years old, this kid was giddy with joy. I watched this man and his son go into the park and start running and playing. The light changed and as we drove away, I turned around in the back seat to watch them until they were out of sight. My eyes filled with water, I thought to myself, this is really a strange reaction. I was thinking, why did I have such a strong emotional reaction to this father and son? It didn’t take long for me to realize that it was because I never had those kind of experiences, never knew that kind of unconditional joy, never knew what it felt like to be wanted and adored as a child.

Which made me think of this question. I wonder if the man I called 'Daddy' as a child, knew then what he knows now, would he have treated me any differently? If he had known, the little boy that depended on him for food and shelter would grow up to be a man that he would have to depend on for food and shelter, would he have made different choices? I realized that my emotion to that moment was about this man loving his child in the purest sense. No matter what the future holds for that little boy, he will always have that moment with his daddy loving him, for him.

There is an old song written by the Gaither’s called, MARY, DID YOU KNOW? It’s a beautiful song asking Mary, the mother of Jesus, the question, “Did you know that her baby boy would come to save the world?” The lyrics go on to ask, “Mary did you know that when you kissed the little baby, you kissed the face of God?” My favorite lyric is this one, “Mary, did you know that the child that you delivered will soon deliver you?” That last line makes me think of my own mother. Before she died she often said to me that she had no idea that her little baby boy would be able to take care of her the way I did. I get so much joy knowing that I could and I did. That lets me sleep at night. Mom, I thank you! You helped me be able to do that. God bless you!

I want to leave you with these questions. It’s for every parent, the good and the bad. DO YOU KNOW who is in your house? DO YOU KNOW whom you're raising, and will the child that you delivered, have to deliver you in your old age? Think about it, and know that when you kiss that innocent face of your child, you kiss the face of God.

God Bless, talk soon.

http://mobile.tylerperry.com/messages/2011-08-15.php

yes I know every single individual in my house lol! Like I said earlier you are very emotional – May GOD bless you and your family. 

@nolongTing,

I agree with you all people need to be given the opportunity to achieve their aspirations.  Section 8? that must be unique to the U.S system and I would not quote Billy if I were you, I think its best to save that for the comedy section.  But when it comes to opportunities do you think that everyone gets a fair crack of the whip?

Not at all. This is not an ideal world and we cannot expect everything to be ideal. Even in Nigeria, your chances of being treated fairly is as remote as it is over here. Your tribe, tongue and religion could affect your chances. I know that from experience.  This is why I like Capitalism.  It is the lowest common denominator for every man, whereas you are valued not based on your skin color, but on what you have to contribute to the society. By and large, those who are able to contribute the most get rewarded the most. 
When I came to the US, all the report I got was how they discriminate and how I will not be able to practice my vocation because I was African and I didn't get an education here.  That proved not to be the case.  I demonstrated to my first employer what I bring to the table and they offered me the job.  I got my first job the same week I received my work permit.  I worked there for just 6 weeks after which I moved on to bigger and better things.  Even now, I get calls from all over the country and sometimes the UK to consider various offers.  Even if these folks are racists, they cannot ignore what I can do for them, and I know what my worth is when it comes to negotiations.  We do not live in a fairy tale world, but we live in a materialistic one where value is placed on what you can do.

You are pretty emotional for a guy with no compassion lol! As far as I know Lady Liberty was a gift of friendship from the French to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of Americas independence from the English. Not sure what this has to do with poor, deprived people. Lol!

It's the symbolism.  Justice should be administered without regard to your station in life. Whether you are poor, rich, white or black should not have bearing on how justice is served.  That is how the government is meant to operate in my opinion.

I think any logical thinking person would be able to see that MLKs dream was impossible, one would have to be colour BLIND not to see another human beings skin colour.  Vision shapes our mind, so keep dreaming.

This same argument applies to tribalism.  I pride myself in the fact that racism or tribalism does not affect my judgement of people.  I am Yoruba and I had a Yoruba driver back when I was working in Naija. I vividly remember his conversation with me one time regarding how I equally employ both Hausas and Igbos without caring for their tribe.  He said people from others tribes will not reciprocate such gesture. Of course I disagree with him, but this just shows how prejudice works in every nation on earth.  MLK's dream is about prejudice.  It may be impossible to attain, but it is the ideal we should strive for.

They must but they will not – what incentives are their for them yto do so? Being fair to ethnic minorities and other under-priviledged groups is a vote loser.

This is exactly why I said the govt should not be involved with social engineering in form of welfare.  It is all about the votes.  What incentives do the Democrats have to do the right thing when they know that the more people they keep on welfare, the better chances they have at the polls?  They have institutionalized poverty because it gives them political advantage.  The purpose of welfare to them is not to get you independent, but to make you dependent on them.  This is morally wrong even though you think it is compassion (that word again, ).

I think that you are allergic to the word compassion, but yopur heroes Obama, Clinton, Bush and Regan used it

Compassion, compassion,  compassion,   compassion,   compassion,   compassion,   compassion.  See, I said the word several times.  I can't be allergic to it now.

Yes the exploitative, ruthless ways of U.S.A incorporated are obvious, my point was put in a cynical manner to point out that they claim its for compassionate reasons but its not. Well, if so, why do you choose to believe they have a fair system? Why not explain the invisiblity of AAs in corporate America? Why not explain the absence of leadership in the AA community? Why choose to dream about the impossible?

Perhaps the problem with the AA community is that they have been made to believe for so long that their salvation lies in the federal government. Remember when Obama was newly elected as President, and various AAs basically expect him to build them houses, kitchens, bathrooms and literally pay them just for being AAs.  Years of psychological abuse has made them to turn their eyes of deliverance away from themselves and towards the government.  The leadership that is needed is in the home.  Unfortunately, we live in a system where the over bearing government has put itself forward as an alternative to a father in the home.  The motto has become: "Is there anything missing in your life? Don't worry, there is a government program for that." Government programs have taken the place of fathers, leaders, providers, mentors etc.

What is your proposed solution in a nutshell?

In a nutshell, reduce the size and influence of the government on our lives.  The more the government grows and is strengthened, the weaker other institutions that should undergird the society become.

yes I know every single individual in my house lol!

Thank God for you. You are the kind of leaders we need today.

Like I said earlier you are very emotional

Actually I am. God, family and nation inspire deep sentiments in me.

May GOD bless you and your family.

Amen! And may He bless you and yours too!

Tayo-D:

@nolongTing,
Not at all. This is not an ideal world and we cannot expect everything to be ideal. Even in Nigeria, your chances of being treated fairly is as remote as it is over here. Your tribe, tongue and religion could affect your chances. I know that from experience.  This is why I like Capitalism.  It is the lowest common denominator for every man, whereas you are valued not based on your skin color, but on what you have to contribute to the society. By and large, those who are able to contribute the most get rewarded the most. 

I can see your point, I actually think that Capitalism is the best system we have at present.  To be honest with you racism has not held me back at all, I have mastered the system and burn the midnight oil.  However, what I have learnt is that in the west individual success for a black person is not enough. No matter how positive you are, no matter how good a parent you are, those achievements are constantly undermined by negative press.  In the west we are grouped together as 'BLACKS',  and as a result we will suffer the consequences together as BLACKS, regardless of our ethinic background or social standing.

Tayo-D:

When I came to the US, all the report I got was how they discriminate and how I will not be able to practice my vocation because I was African and I didn't get an education here.  That proved not to be the case.  I demonstrated to my first employer what I bring to the table and they offered me the job.  I got my first job the same week I received my work permit.  I worked there for just 6 weeks after which I moved on to bigger and better things.  Even now, I get calls from all over the country and sometimes the UK to consider various offers.  Even if these folks are racists, they cannot ignore what I can do for them, and I know what my worth is when it comes to negotiations.  We do not live in a fairy tale world, but we live in a materialistic one where value is placed on what you can do.

You are an inspiration and what the young ones need to hear and see.  The direct beneficiaries of this are your sons.  I hate to put a dampner on it but again you are lucky! You don't just wake up and get a good QUALITY education; your power is your knowledge.  I believe what you are saying because that is how the system works – its all about your skills.  Like the Americans say: “If it don't make money it don't make no sense”.  

But my point is the government can EASILY do better but they have chose not to.  There is no point in crying over spilt mil and begging them to help, the solution is simple Black parents need to invest more in their childrens education.  The investment can be time if they are not rich. Can you imagine a situation whereby a black child born in England finishes school and cannot speak English properly or read? Thats what we have here, its pathetic. What else do these black parents need to see to take action?  Its making us all look BAD.

During the riots they showed footage of a shopping center (a mall), the looters looted electrical goods shops, cloth shops, shops selling trainers (sneakers) but left a book shop (Waterstones) with hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of books.  The shop did not even have a scratch on it lol! That book shop was their solution. 

Thats why I said we need to show compassion (don't wince lol!)  to those black people who are genuinely helpless and let the others face the consequences of their actions. By being compassionate to them we are bing compassionate to ourselves by avoiding the constant, collective embarassment of their actions.

Tayo-D:

It's the symbolism.  Justice should be administered without regard to your station in life. Whether you are poor, rich, white or black should not have bearing on how justice is served.  That is how the government is meant to operate in my opinion.
This same argument applies to tribalism.  I pride myself in the fact that racism or tribalism does not affect my judgement of people.  I am Yoruba and I had a Yoruba driver back when I was working in Naija. I vividly remember his conversation with me one time regarding how I equally employ both Hausas and Igbos without caring for their tribe.  He said people from others tribes will not reciprocate such gesture. Of course I disagree with him, but this just shows how prejudice works in every nation on earth.  MLK's dream is about prejudice.  It may be impossible to attain, but it is the ideal we should strive for.

I'm Yoruba too, I think Lagos exemplifies the progressive and accomodating nature of Yoruba people.

Tayo-D:

This is exactly why I said the govt should not be involved with social engineering in form of welfare.  It is all about the votes.  What incentives do the Democrats have to do the right thing when they know that the more people they keep on welfare, the better chances they have at the polls?  They have institutionalized poverty because it gives them political advantage.  The purpose of welfare to them is not to get you independent, but to make you dependent on them.  This is morally wrong even though you think it is compassion (that word again, ).

Very well said. 

Tayo-D:

Compassion, compassion,  compassion,   compassion,   compassion,   compassion,   compassion.  See, I said the word several times.  I can't be allergic to it now.

well done! Lol! 

Tayo-D:

Perhaps the problem with the AA community is that they have been made to believe for so long that their salvation lies in the federal government. Remember when Obama was newly elected as President, and various AAs basically expect him to build them houses, kitchens, bathrooms and literally pay them just for being AAs.  Years of psychological abuse has made them to turn their eyes of deliverance away from themselves and towards the government.  The leadership that is needed is in the home.

I could not agree more.

Tayo-D:

Unfortunately, we live in a system where the over bearing government has put itself forward as an alternative to a father in the home.  The motto has become: "Is there anything missing in your life? Don't worry, there is a government program for that." Government programs have taken the place of fathers, leaders, providers, mentors etc.
In a nutshell, reduce the size and influence of the government on our lives.  The more the government grows and is strengthened, the weaker other institutions that should undergird the society become.

I agree, and the best way to do so in my humble opinion is to go back to the African system of collectively raising our children – “it takes a village to raise a child”.  For example I was listening to an african parent whose child was caught up in the rioting.  He said: “Me and my wife were at work, we work two jobs a day”, “we raised our children better than that”.  Well in an African system the community would have looked out for his child until he returns. But in the west with overbearing, government legislation if another African adult cautions her in public, he/she may get arrested for child abuse or harrasment.

Tayo-D:

Thank God for you.  You are the kind of leaders we need today.

Thanks for the kind words 

Tayo-D:

Actually I am. God, family and nation inspire deep sentiments in me.
Amen! And may He bless you and yours too!

Ami o! 

nolongTing:

I can see your point, I actually think that Capitalism is the best system we have at present.  To be honest with you racism has not held me back at all, I have mastered the system and burn the midnight oil.  However, what I have learnt is that in the west individual success for a black person is not enough. No matter how positive you are, no matter how good a parent you are, those achievements are constantly undermined by negative press.  In the west we are grouped together as 'BLACKS',  and as a result we will suffer the consequences together as BLACKS, regardless of our ethinic background or social standing.

You are an inspiration and what the young ones need to hear and see.  The direct beneficiaries of this are your sons.  I hate to put a dampner on it but again you are lucky! You don't just wake up and get a good QUALITY education; your power is your knowledge.  I believe what you are saying because that is how the system works – its all about your skills.  Like the Americans say: “If it don't make money it don't make no sense”.  

But my point is the government can EASILY do better but they have chose not to.  There is no point in crying over spilt mil and begging them to help, the solution is simple Black parents need to invest more in their childrens education.  The investment can be time if they are not rich. Can you imagine a situation whereby a black child born in England finishes school and cannot speak English properly or read? Thats what we have here, its pathetic. What else do these black parents need to see to take action?  Its making us all look BAD.

During the riots they showed footage of a shopping center (a mall), the looters looted electrical goods shops, cloth shops, shops selling trainers (sneakers) but left a book shop (Waterstones) with hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of books.  The shop did not even have a scratch on it lol! That book shop was their solution. 

Thats why I said we need to show compassion (don't wince lol!)  to those black people who are genuinely helpless and let the others face the consequences of their actions. By being compassionate to them we are bing compassionate to ourselves by avoiding the constant, collective embarassment of their actions.

I'm Yoruba too, I think Lagos exemplifies the progressive and accomodating nature of Yoruba people.

Very well said. 
well done! Lol! 

I could not agree more.

I agree, and the best way to do so in my humble opinion is to go back to the African system of collectively raising our children – “it takes a village to raise a child”.  For example I was listening to an african parent whose child was caught up in the rioting.  He said: “Me and my wife were at work, we work two jobs a day”, “we raised our children better than that”.  Well in an African system the community would have looked out for his child until he returns. But in the west with overbearing, government legislation if another African adult cautions her in public, he/she may get arrested for child abuse or harrasment.

Thanks for the kind words 

Ami o! 

what the f.ok are you doing here now you st.u.pi.d muva f.ok.er? This topic is beyond your basic comprehension level. Now go back to the ROMANCE section and talk about your PINK panties you smelly tranny!