brainpulse:
Communism, capitalism, socialism, federalism etc systems are not the problem, the problems are the people operating the system. if you try any system outside Nigeria, it ill work but inside Nigeria it will surely fail.
Why? Nigerians build the system around thereselves, friends, political members and families not studying the intricacy of the environment and the people, and this will surely fail. But when a system is built to have colossal and formidable structure having the generality of the people in mind will surely last and work even though it mail fail, but ultimately will rise again.

E.g- Nigeria senate will only make laws btw 1 week that will enrich their pockets, but will take 2 terms ( 8 years) on a law that will touch peoples life and strengthen the system.

Every known economic system that has worked in other countires when same brought to Nigeria will not work again. WHY? Because it would have been hijacked by some one that will change and change it to suit only his family system and political affiliates. its BAD.

brainpulse:
For example when and Operating system is built round one function or application without flexibility to other applications , it fails and it becomes obsolete with time no matter the strength of technicalities of the OS.

Nigeria problem is not with the system but those operating the system. it is built by our leaders around theirselves.

Our leaders do not know any operating system of government they are just concerned with looting for there children, children's children and children children children, political fathers and fatherares, god and devil fathers etc.
Its disheartening.

mikolo80:
dunno what you going on about, capitalism works just fine in Nigeria

ektbear:

And how does capitalism violate bolded? Nobody is better than anyone else before the eyes of the law where I live. Just some are wealthier than others. No hereditary monarchs, titles, etc.

I think this is a separate issue from deciding on an economic system.

okadaman2:


That was my point.

----------------///////--------////---------

@ekt_bear, Yes that is true, but the golden goose matters to those benefitting from the eggs, which will always be a small minority, that is why we get fierce class struggles across history, capitalism will not solve it better than communism, that was my point. Best you can do as a country is to shift the poverty overseas, but for the world as a whole no change has really occurred, people just got richer somewhere, while some new folks got poorer.

There is an implicit assumption in your point that poor folks are the sick and lazy ones, I don't think it's that simple. I'm not sure there will be any noticeable change in Macro wealth distribution if everyone has the same chance and abilities, actually it will bring the world to an end quickly I think.

ektbear:
@okada_man: I think everyone benefits from the eggs that the top 10% lays. If a guy in the top 10% starts a business, he'll inevitably hire many folks in that bottom 90% to work for him. If his business goes under, not only does this rich man suffer, but so do all of those that he employs.

I am not saying that poor people are all sick or lazy. My point is that there is some fraction of people who no matter what you do, no matter what economic system you run, there will be some people who consume far more from society than they produce.

I'm mostly trying to debunk this idea of everyone being "equal." It isn't really true at all. The guys in the top 10%, almost everyone would want to add them to their country. Otoh, the guys at the bottom 5% are mostly burdens.

okadaman2:
Communism has never really been practiced, we never got to that stage yet, most of the countries we commonly refer to as Communist are not really communist, they were on the road there but not there yet or never got there.

People like Mao and Lenin, Stalin latched on to Karl Marx's political tool -revolution- as a means to bring about a communist classless state, but they never finished the job, they got stuck in the uncomfortable brutal stage, the inevitable struggle and anarchy before calm. We got Leninism, Maoists, Stalinists e.t.c

They never got to the calm. Maybe there is no calm

Lovesdaisied:


No it doesn't.

The high crime rate and lax morals in the political scene are an offshoot of Nigeria's capitalist system.

okadaman2:
I think capitalists are the ones thinking they have a nice fair and equal system that guarantees equity for all if you just try.

@ ekt_bear, no, not everyone, very few benefit from the eggs laid. We get this illusion that we will all die if companies collapse and innovation will vanish in the absence of capitalism.

I'm not convinced at all, capitalism can encourage innovation, but you need resources to truly innovate. Imagine how many dreams die slowly everyday without the resources to power them. I'm taking about dreams, innovation and inventions amongst the poor and lowly world majority with little access to the resources; land, capital, natural resource locked up in the developed world for their own exclusive use either by sheer force or subtle manipulation and control.

That is similar to the same situation during feudalism, the same situation Karl Marx was trying to solve. If the rich landowners give up control, we will all die? No! we will have the chance to spread the resources to power innovation to more people.

If they die, they free up resources for me and mine, capitalism is not as wonderful as people make it out to be and it's collapse will not necessarily end the world.

francis247:
No country has fully achieved socialism let alone its highest state, communism. The society has & shall evolve from communalism to slavery to feudalism to capitalism to socialism and to communalism. Nigeria is yet to fully achieve feudalism (according to critics) let alone capitalism as we are yet to manufacture from start to finnish that which is needed to develop our economy. Nigeria, though better than most of its counterparts, is gradually underdeveloping. Our economy depends on buying and selling. Crude oil is exported, the proceeds are used to import 'the already manufactured' by capitalists nations; agriculture is dying, we are still importing rice, untill mechanized farming is given the necessary boost, unemployment rate reduced, (recent report released shows that about 100,000 Nigerians apply for visa to america weekly, not to mention other western countries; while they are developing we are underdeveloping) we'll remain in the realm of feudalism (farming with hoes and cutlass, eating from hand to mouth) far from capitalism let alone socialism, then communism.

pleep:
thats facism.

. . .i wish i had made this topic "Nigerian* style communism: why not" because i think people are misunderstanding what i'm trying to get at.

[size=5pt]*like Chinese communism, or cuban communism. a liberal flexible interpretation that fits a particular society.[/size]

havoc37:
No. And capitalism is a system where everyone has a chance to succeed or fail (in America anyway). Communism is a system where everyone automatically fails.

ojesymsym:



If america and britain was practicing communism, de wud have packaged it in a fine wrapper that capitalism would have seem from the deepest pits of hell. I do not think we have to copy and paste in everything, our cultures are different so we shd b able to do ours d way it suits us.

IG:

Seconded.
I think that is what China is experimenting and they seem to be succeeding. People are allowed to get rewarded for their hardwork but the society doesn't ignore those that fail to make it. My problem with capitalism is it's soullessness. It treats poverty as the fault of the poor.

MyJoe:

I agree with you capitalism is soulless - one has only to take a look at the pyramid scheme called "stock market", a larger-than-life system where people make money, not from goods and services, but from pieces of paper! But where are the shining examples to point to to make the case for communism? So I agree with you that a mixed system is better. But China is no shining example of that. In a few years from now, maybe once the generation that personally knew Mao is gone, the Chinese will stop pretending to be "communist". The unfortunate thing is that what the Chinese are building is the American-type capitalism that you describe as "soulless", not the people-oriented "mixed" social democracy you find in Europe, particularly the Scandinavian countries.

Ibime:
Isolationism has its benefits. It can be a good incubation period for a country to build capacity. See the case of pre-WW2 Japan and America for the benefits of isolationism.

Communism also builds up expertise and social values. Communist countries once liberated often have competitive advantage over their rivals in terms of human capacity.

I believe a few years of communism can benefit a new country in its early stage of development.



Smh just Smh





Would Nigeria be better off under communism?



most definitely not
imagine subsidy on garri or pepper and see how quickly we descend into anarchy




If we were communist, we would still export crude oil, meaning 90% of our budget would be intact. . .


who budget epp




The question is what has our current system (laissez-faire corruption) added to us beyond oil revenue?



functioning markets.
transport system.
water delivery as govt own has failed
.housing.
i doubt you understand capitalism




If only for the extermination of corruption,



name one non corrupt communist country


one

i dare you



education of a lost generation;


name one well educated communist country



and re-integration of social miscreants who now pose security problems,




you prefer they threaten world peace as all communist nations do




I say Nigeria would benefit from a few years of communism. Not to mention building local capacity.

logica:
I hope all of you commenting know the difference between Communism and Socialism.

In most cases, we have Socialist states and not Communist states (such as China).

http://www.marxmail.org/faq/socialism_and_communism.htm



More reading here:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_socialism_and_communism



That is perhaps the most important difference.

logica:
Also, many countries including the UK and several countries in Europe operate a combination of Capitalism and Socialism. Why else do you think you have "Free Health Care" if not for a Socialist ideal?

Claus:
Capitalism is not the cause of Nigeria's problem, and Communism is DEFINITELY NOT the solution.

A system is only as good as the people that run it.

hbrednic:
capitalism is evil,no to communism YES TO SOCIALISM

brainpulse:
Communism, capitalism, socialism, federalism etc systems are not the problem, the problems are the people operating the system. if you try any system outside Nigeria, it ill work but inside Nigeria it will surely fail.
Why? Nigerians build the system around thereselves, friends, political members and families not studying the intricacy of the environment and the people, and this will surely fail. But when a system is built to have colossal and formidable structure having the generality of the people in mind will surely last and work even though it mail fail, but ultimately will rise again.

E.g- Nigeria senate will only make laws btw 1 week that will enrich their pockets, but will take 2 terms ( 8 years) on a law that will touch peoples life and strengthen the system.

Every known economic system that has worked in other countires when same brought to Nigeria will not work again. WHY? Because it would have been hijacked by some one that will change and change it to suit only his family system and political affiliates. its BAD.

brainpulse:
Communism, capitalism, socialism, federalism etc systems are not the problem, the problems are the people operating the system.[b]
It is the ppl that pick a faulty system (socialism that encourages laziness)


[/b ] if you try any system outside Nigeria, it ill work but inside Nigeria it will surely fail.[b]

Where has communism worked? North Korea?
Cuba?
Russia?
China?
Venezuela?
Where?

[/b ]
Why? Nigerians build the system around thereselves, friends, political members and families not studying the intricacy of the environment and the people, and this will surely fail. But when a system is built to have colossal and formidable structure having the generality of the people in mind will surely last and work even though it mail fail, but ultimately will rise again.
[b]
Plenty grammar
Nothing said


[/b ]
E.g- Nigeria senate will only make laws btw 1 week that will enrich their pockets,[b]
Example of socialism


[/b ] but will take 2 terms ( 8 years) on a law that will touch peoples life and strengthen the system.
[b]
Human nature
Why should they pass law that will hurt them


[/b ]
Every known economic system that has worked in other countires when same brought to Nigeria will not work again. WHY? [b]
Cos the system was not brought to Nigeria
All the ones that were brought succeeded



[/b ]Because it would have been hijacked by some one that will change and change it to suit only his family system and political affiliates. [b]
Human nature to survive


[/b ]its BAD.[b]
No just human


[/b ]

okadaman2:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/

^^

Karl marx's prediction and theory is not necessarily a fixed destination, it is cyclical. When you see it that way, you will not spend too much energy fighting for one theory over another.

UN via guardian.co.uk

^
Capitalism will never make everyone rich, actually I don't think it can enrich more than a few single digit % of the world at a time. The little progress we've made across the world is just a result of increase in wealth creation in the developing world. China, Asia, Latin America, which of course took some wealth away from the developed world. We are essentially shifting wealth around. That to me is redistribution too, unfortunately it goes to a few people too while the bottom poor remains extremely large.

Capitalism will not make things fair. The world is not fair. Communism won't either. A combo might help but we will need to keep tweaking.
[b]

I think capitalism is fair as fair can be
You provide Value you valued
You useless you're done away with

[/b ]
You will probably like capitalism when it's working for you and communism when it's not. Russia was a joint super power when it had communism, now it's a shadow of it's former self. America will eventually kill herself if she fails to reign in runaway excessive capitalism too[b]
No
The fittest will survive and the Weak eliminated


[/b ], if that happens, then people will demand more socialism, then the cycle continues.

oshanka:
Communism is an economic stunting approach to provide for all yet loses all in d process of redistributing wealth, I am not much of a fan of capitalism either but it seems to bring out the best in individuals economically,while downplaying d illegit modes employed by some to accrue so much.

Illegitimate is not capitalism
That is theft
Not same thing

That said my view of the best system for the african continent and Nigeria in particular is Social Welfarism
All na socialism


[/b]where government provides basic infrastructures and amenities[b]



[/b ] and offers it to the people at little or no cost, like is operated in most scadinavian countries, imagine 24hr electrity,[b]
Ppl will waste it


[/b]free education to the university level
[b]

Many will go and be wasting admission and bed space

,free health care


Hypochondriacs will full there and many will die on queue
Ask NHS


and a good rail network.


Research social mta subway in new york and capitalist Japanese subway
Your eye will clear


With social welfarism and nigerians ingenuity in business with hardwork,


Once you start taxing hard workers to give wasters the hard work stops while the lazy never don't care and continue to mooch


[/b]things will surely be brighter, A figment of social welfarism was all "Awo" did that propelled the west almost a decade ahead of other regions [b]

Ahead in what
Do we look ahead in anything

[/b]and made him a hero from his region, [b]

Who no like free sontin?

[/b]But all still boils down to a responsive goverment who understands the yearnings of its people.[b]
Only free competition can give you responsive govt
Socialism breeds CAbals


[/b]ple at little or no cost[b]

Plenty of cost to the hard workers who Pay heavy taxes

, like is operated in most scadinavian countries, imagine 24hr electrity,free education to the university level,free health care and a good rail network. With social welfarism [b]
Socialism
Pancake doesn't make a woman fine



[/b]and nigerians ingenuity in business with hardwork,things will surely be brighter, A figment of social welfarism was all "Awo" did that propelled the west almost a decade ahead of other regions and made him a hero from his region, But all still boils down to a responsive goverment who understands the yearnings of its people.

brainpulse:
For example when and Operating system is built round one function or application without flexibility to other applications , it fails and it becomes obsolete with time no matter the strength of technicalities of the OS.

Nigeria problem is not with the system but those operating the system. it is built by our leaders around theirselves.

Our leaders do not know any operating system of government they are just concerned with looting for there children, children's children and children children children, political fathers and fatherares, god and devil fathers etc.
Its disheartening.

Dsage1:
@poster,cummunism can never work effectivly in a country lik Nigeria.1stly,majority of her citizens lack commitmnt toward d managemnt of public property,2nd,diversify culture&ethnic group.3rdly,it may eventually lead to oligarchy,dictatorship&authoritarian leaders.4th,it cant work in d corrupt society.I tink,mixes economic are better 4 Nigeria.The economy of USA is mixed in nature,it's d misinterpretation of USA capitalist system by their imitators dat result to globa economic meltdown.No country country can achiev extremely by operating either capitalism/communalism alone but mixed economy.The economy of most developed countries of today are mixed&not solely d capitalism/communism.

nora544:
Communism will not work and all countries who have the communism at that time have big problems and look how many countries leave the comminism.

I come from a country what was very poor after the war but the people work and the government make there work, we have a good social system our schools are free also the univerities and we live good and we are one of the rich countries in the world now, our economy is better than the economic from USA.

I know a country we have a border to this country and i know what happen with this country how bad the economy was, they have the same problem after the war but this country was occupied from Russia and so they have the communism there and they want to change it 1955 but Russia didnot want it and so many people from this country leave.also when they know it could be dangerous. They have so many economic problems, and so many people from this country come to my country for work, and it will take time until they have the same economic than my country.

A minister from my country and the minister of this country make that the communism went away from most of the countries of east Europa they open the border and that was the start for better life in this countries.

USA is not that good and wounderfull country, i know that USA always look what could help them, they don't look at other countries, i know what they make with Iraq, with Afghanistan. First America give Sadam from Iraq money that he fight against the Iran and than when they feel the need the oil then they break with him.

My country also have troubles with America, when a man who was Secretary from the Uno, who help Arab countries and work against Israel, what happen to him when he wants to get president from my country, than America remember his past, why at that time and not before.

You will see so many poor people in America and only few are very rich the same than in Nigeria.


America's poor way better than most country's rich


Nigeria should look at the countries in Europa not UK and America. How we make it here, what we make that the people have work,  what we have for economy, there are only few countries look at this countries and Nigeria should make it in this way, the young people should work together and not speaking i am Yoruba or Ibo, or edo or Hausa, we are Nigerian like we say we are from, . In my country we have also different tribes but this is no problem we are ,
100 years ago we where the biggest country in Europa but every tribe want there own country so they break away and no since we have Europa union we belong together or they want to come to the Europa union.

I know Nigeria a little bit but when the people work together and and they work that they make that the name of Nigeria gets a better sound in the world and people work together than Nigeria could be the best country in Africa.

logica:
I don't think it is about "people being equal" but rather "people are CONSIDERED equal". Basically what that means is there is no class, and therefore no prejudices or favorites. The leader is on the same class as any peasant. But of course this is Utopian. This is an idealized concept. But due to the fact that human beings are supposed to make this happen, it cannot happen.

The idea is a capitalist state should strive towards achieving the "ideal" of Communism, by passing through the phase of Socialism. Therefore Socialism is the intermediate state of this progression, since it has characteristics of Communism and Capitalism.

The main problem with Communism (actually Socialism - there is a reason it's USSR and not USCR) was that it was hijacked by a bunch of psychopaths in the first real trial (Russia) and they gave it a bad name, and of course due to human fallibility it became a farce. Indeed Communism can never truly exist, but you can only tend towards it.

Sunofgod:
Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Fascism,Blah, Blah Blah.

How about 'Africanism'?

Why must we look to a foreign system to progress as a people's?

Corruption can be found in all the above systems. No matter whats implemented in Nigeria there will be a tendency by a few to dominate the majorrity.