Full Of Grace And Truth- book by Watchman Nee

Cc

Chapter 1

There Is a God
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Ps. 14.1)
Without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.
(Heb. 11.6)
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, itspeaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be
stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in
his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin. (Rom.
3.19-20)


Today I would like to talk about a subject which may not be easy to deal with. I confess that this is only the second time in my life I have delivered such a message. And it is that which is stated in a fragment found in Hebrews 11.6 which declares that “he that cometh to God must believe that he is.” Moreover, I would also like to touch upon the words of Psalm 14.1: “The fool hath said in his heart, There
is no God.”

Actually the question of whether there is a God need not be answered, since the Bible never argues this point at all. The Bible takes for granted that men must believe in God because they have no reason not to believe so. It treats this matter as something already given.

Nevertheless, there is today in this world a class of people who consider themselves atheists. They say there is no God, neither
do they acknowledge there is a God who rules over all things. Such a contention seems to be quite popular these days and is warmly
welcomed by a large number of people. Those who say these things appear to have minds newer than the rest of mankind and an ability
superior to the general public; they therefore dare to assert such things. Before I attempt to burst their “intellectual bubble” let us
recognize the several different kinds of atheists there are. For although most atheists would probably not accept such a classification as will be presented here, we as more objective
observers are clearer than they themselves.

Atheists for Moral Reasons

Towards atheists of this kind there is no use saying anything to them nor arguing with them. All that is appropriate is to look at their lives, because their immorality speaks far more loudly than their words. They profess to be atheists not because they have convincing
evidences that there is no God, but because their lives are such that it is expedient for them to say there is no God. Their own moral state
keeps them from acknowledging that there is a God in the heavens and the earth. A bandit would like to believe there is no law enforcement; a bad student would like to believe there is no teacher; an unfaithful employee would like to be able to say there is no employer; and a wicked person would like to believe there is no law. This does not mean that they really do not believe that these things exist; it is simply that their own lives impel them not to accept these things at their face value. Yet if someone says to you, “I do not
believe in God, for there is no such person as God in my mind,” you may respond by asking: “Friend, how about your moral life?” Nothing at all need be said but to ask whether that person lives morally or immorally.

People may disbelieve God, but they cannot deny there is morality. Let me tell you frankly, that though I am still young, yet of the people whom I have met in these few years at least
ninety-nine out of a hundred atheists are questionable in respect of their personal morality. I have yet to meet an atheist who lives
somewhat morally. There are some in the audience who are older than I. May I ask you if you have ever met an atheist whose morality
is even slightly dependable? Whether asking fellow students, business associates, or friends, the atheists whom I have met are all
morally corrupt; so that they cannot believe in God. Allow me to assert a truthful word, that if ever God goes out of a person, immorality takes His place in that one.

There was a well-known experienced preacher in America whose name was R.A. Torrey. Once when he was preaching at a certain place, a college student came up to him and said: “Formerly I believed in God, but lately I do not believe any more.” “For what reason do you now not believe?” asked Mr. Torrey. “Well, after I entered college, my knowledge increased; therefore I do not believe any more. I read this book and that book, until I eventually read God
away,” replied the student. “Do not try to deceive me,” Mr. Torrey responded, “for I too was a college student. I have read many books
and I have a doctor’s degree. But I have not read God away. You must have some hidden reason, otherwise you would not have read
Him out of existence.” Then Mr. Torrey continued. “Let me ask you a question. Now that you do not believe in God, how about your moral life?” To which the student replied somewhat candidly, “I must confess that my morality now is not as good as before.” Whereupon Mr. Torrey concluded with a word that was indeed well￾spoken: “I need not argue with you, nor raise up many reasons as
proof to you. If you simply stop doing these bad things and begin to live more morally, God will immediately return.” How factual that is,
for many fail to believe in God not because they have good reasons to do so but simply because their multitude of sins hinder them from
believing. They are compelled to be atheists.

Stiff-Lipped Atheists

This group of people proclaims that there is no God, yet without giving any reason. They are so stiff-lipped that no one can reason with them. If you ask them why they do not believe in God, they have no reason to offer but nonetheless insist that they do not believe. How can you deal with such people? Having asserted that there is no God, they will not change their mind. You may talk with them for days and nights on end and may even convince them with
arguments, yet they will still staunchly maintain their position. Whatever reasons they may eventually give are dogmatic and arbitrary. Their responses are quite adamant. What ever can you therefore do with them? The fact of the matter is that their mind is usually quite empty, having no reason to give; but their lips
insistently declare there is no God. And hence we call them stiff￾lipped atheists. There is no way to reason with the above two types of atheists.

Another group can be found, though, that is not quite as hopeless as these. Unfortunately, however, they are rather small in number. Who are they? We call them—


Atheists for Intellectual Reasons

Who are these intellectual atheists? They are those who are open to reason. If you can prove to them with with sufficient arguments then
they are willing to accept your premise of God’s existence. For such people, there is the need of some reasoning, which indeed has value.
Yet how few there are of this kind of atheists in the world. Now I have no intention of arguing with them by marshalling many reasons
to prove that there is a God in the universe. For one thing, the Bible, as we said earlier, never deals with this question, but rather speaks of
the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and so forth. This alone indicates that the question of whether God exists need not be mentioned in its pages because it is a fact accepted by all concerned. The existence of God is an unshakable fact that has no need to be discussed.

How Dare You Say There Is No God?

Suppose an atheistic friend comes to talk about this matter of God. He will no doubt say there is no Supreme Being. You may ask him
why and he may perhaps give you a reason or two. But whenever I am confronted with such a situation, I will usually not permit him to go on. I will frankly ask him: “Who are you who dare to say there is no God?” He may still want to continue with his argument but I will
stop him by reiterating the same question, for in such a conversation I wish to settle at the outset the credentials of the speaker. Yet I need
to ask him this: According to your own estimate, do you honestly believe you have the qualifications to decide whether God is? Or
may I put it even more bluntly: “Who do you think you are that you dare to say there is no God? What makes you so qualified to assert
such a statement? Are there not four billion people like you in the world? What then makes you an authority on this question? Why,
you do not even know about the things with which you have contact every day! Do you know, for example, how your fingernails grow?
Or how your heart beats? Do you know whether there will be rain tomorrow or whether you will eat your meal again the next day? You
have no real knowledge of these things. How then dare you say there is no God?
“Let me further ask you this: Do you know how big the earth is? But perhaps you are one of those who do not consider the earth as of
much consequence. Alright, do you know how big our solar system is? Probably you will regard this as not very large either. Then let me
ask you this: Have you the ability to bring the sun down that you may examine to see how big it is? Were it possible to excavate the
sun and empty it of its contents, how many earths would you be able to stuff into the sun? Actually, hundreds, thousands, even tens of
thousands of earths could be put into it and there would still be space left to be filled. For the sun can contain a million and a half planets
like our earth with much room left to spare!

And yet, as one astronomer has said, there are five billion other stars that are as large
as the sun of our solar system. So how big really are you, that you dare to claim there is no God?” Those who say there is no God ought to consider the following:
Astronomers tell us that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second! It is rather difficult for us to comprehend such speed. Yet
though light travels so fast, astronomers tell us that the light from some stars has traveled for two thousand years and has still not
reached the earth. For a person who is only six feet tall and who occupies less than a foot of ground to say there is no God is not only
absurd but most ridiculous.

Who Rules the Universe?

Though the universe is so immense, there are things within it so small that even a microscope cannot detect them. And however
microscopic they are, each of them has its definite organization, definite law, and definite order. How wonderful they are! Formerly
people considered the atom as the smallest unit. Later the scientist discovered electrons. Now they have found other particles even
smaller than electrons. Yet no matter how tiny they are, they all follow definite principles, laws and order. If there is no God, how did
their so intricate design come about? How could they have been made so precisely and accurately? There must be a God who designs
and rules, otherwise such beautiful phenomena of nature could never have happened. Only two alternative explanations are possible.
These things either came about by accident or they came about by design. If not by accident, they must have come into existence
through One who designs them. And if not by design, then they must have arisen by accident. Which is the right answer?

Is It by Accident?

To say that there is no designer to the universe and that all things were accomplished by accident is really asking too much of our
imagination! Some people have suggested that things simply happened through their contact with one another, resulting in the
universe as we know it. This theory I can hardly accept as plausible. I have never observed anything in the world that has resulted from
such chance. Let me tell you a true story. Once a certain person went to visit the
chief executive officer of a factory which produced a meat-grinding machine. This small machine can be seen in most butcher shops in
Shanghai. During their conversation together their talk turned to the subject of the origin of the universe. At one point the chief executive
remarked that in the universe there must be a God who was all wise and all mighty to have designed and built all things. But the visitor
sharply disagreed, declaring that there was no God in the universe and that everything came about by accident. Instead of arguing, the
executive invited his friend to observe how his employees built their meat grinders. “Please note,” the factory chief said, “that our small
meat grinder is made of eight different pieces. Now since you say that the universe has resulted merely from chance contact, would you please put these eight pieces and the appropriate screws into a wooden box and shake them up to see if by such an event it will
result in a meat grinder?” He knew, of course, that no matter how the visitor might shake them, such accidental contact would never
produce a machine. The officer continued by saying, “We have hundreds of workers in our factory. The most capable of them can
make 200 machines a day. Yet even if we were to go to the countryside to find and hire a dull woman who has never in her life
seen such machines, we could teach her to put one together in a very few days. But you may shake and shake this box of parts for a month
or for a year and still not be successful. It is simply impossible. Now if a small machine that is worth only a little over three dollars and
seventy cents cannot be produced by accident, how could such an immense universe have been made merely by chance contact? Is it at
all rational to believe that all the objects found in our universe came about by accident? The chairs which we were sitting on a moment
ago were made by a carpenter, who put it together in half an hour. But had this been left to chance contact, there would never have been
any chair for us to sit on today!”


I believe this story points up the fact that the universe, with such obvious order, symmetry and law, must have been designed by a
Designer. Even the dullest, most ignorant person in the world must acknowledge this. And therefore, a person who is not a fool will
believe in God. There is absolutely no valid reason for not believing in God.

The Witness of Conscience

What we have discussed here are merely external approaches to presenting evidence of the fact that God is. We would next like to
look at the subject from another angle. Can we, judging from human psychology, say there is a God? Recently, the National Geographical
Society of the United States sent people to many countries to study human society and geography, and the results of their investigation
were then published. What the study learned was that throughout every society—whether civilized or barbarous, whether progressive
or regressive—there was one trait which was common to all: they all believed that God exists. Truly, whoever they may be—even if the
most uncivilized tribes people—they know that there is a God. A person can be so dull as not to be able to think or reason, yet his heart
will tell him that there is a God. So many others, though, talk in opposition to their conscience.
A remarkable incident occurred in South America in 1925. One day a missionary passed by a forest and suddenly heard a cry for
help. He rushed towards the sound of the voice and came to the side of a river. He saw a man in a canoe being swept downstream. The
current was swift, and not far away the missionary could see a waterfall. If not rescued, this man would certainly be overwhelmed
by the waterfall. At that critical moment, the man in the canoe cried with all his strength, “Oh God, oh God, save me! Save me!” The
missionary quickly sized up the situation and was able to rescue the man.

On the very next day, the missionary was again passing through this forest. But this time he saw hundreds of people gathered by the
riverside listening to a lecture. He went forward to learn what it was all about. There a man was speaking publicly on the subject of God.
In his lecture he marshalled numerous arguments to prove the non￾existence of God. After he finished speaking, he challenged the
audience by saying: “I have given you many reasons; if anyone believes otherwise and wishes to argue, he may do so.” The
missionary stepped onto the platform and spoke: “I do not know how to argue, nor am I going to give you reasons; instead, I will tell you
all a true story. Yesterday when I passed through the forest I heard a man crying for help, and he was repeatedly heard to cry out: “Oh
God, oh God, save me, save me!” I ran toward the sound and found a man sitting in a canoe, drifting rapidly towards the waterfall yonder.
His life was in terrible danger! I instantly rescued him and then sent him home. Let me today introduce to you that man. The one who
yesterday cried desperately, “Oh God, save me!”, is the very person who today has been presenting to you many so-called reasons for
proving that there is no God. Whether what I have said is true or not, you may ask him.”
Truly, the conscience of many people is such that before it is awakened they can raise many arguments against the existence of
God. But when they are dying or are in a very strait situation, they will then contemplate future consequences and thus their conscience
will tell them that God is. Today may quickly pass away. Today may seem so unimportant because you are still young. But the day that
you find yourself heading for eternity, your conscience will wake up and speak. I often say, conscience may slumber but it never dies.
When the time arrives, it will utter its voice. Nevertheless, it may already be too late.
In England there once was a father and a son who were ardent atheists. But the day the father was dying, he turned about on his bed
showing intense restlessness. The son noticed the situation. Fearing lest his father’s atheistic faith be shaken, he tried to encourage his
father with these words, “Father, hold on!” With tears on his face, his father cried out: “Hold on to what?” Since neither of them had God,
what could they possibly hold on to? But we thank God, we do have Someone to hold on to. We know whom we have believed. Will you who have heard this please listen to your inner voice? How frequently our mind is affected by outside influences and conceives erroneous thoughts, but the innermost voice is trustworthy, for it presents the real self.
I have researched and concluded that there is no born atheist. He is instead created by his environment. Our conscience is therefore
exceedingly precious. And hence it is good to follow it closely.

The Testimony of Answered Prayer

We have already seen how the immensity of the universe, the order of the universe, and the conscience of man all point to the fact
that God is. Let us look at the same subject from yet another viewpoint—that of the experience of Christians in their relationships
toward God. Christians may be regarded as people who know God most. So that their experiences may be offered too as evidence that God exists. From answers to our prayers—whether as manifested in the grace of forgiveness or in the special protection given—we may know that there is a God. Without God, how can there ever be a
Christian? In this connection, then, I wish to relate an experience of mine of
answered prayer—one which I have rarely told to people. It happened in January, 1926. At that time I was in a country place, and some brothers off in Foochow were preparing for an
evangelistic crusade. I had been invited to join them, but considering that they already had quite a few people for the crusade, I concluded that I was really not needed there. And hence I decided to preach in the villages. I invited six brothers to go with me. Two are now
helping Mr. Willis of Quausan Garden, Shanghai. One is in Pagoda, Anchorage. Two are in Amoy learning to fly, and the other is in
LienKiang. I mention their whereabouts because they were eye￾witnesses to what happened and can therefore corroborate what is said here. We took the steamboat and went to a town called Mayflower Village. It was a fishing community, and fishermen there earned a great deal of money. Now among the six who accompanied me, there was one who was a young brother around 16 or 17 years of age. He
had been expelled from school and his mother in desperation had brought him to me. During his first month under my care I had not
known how to deal with him. But in the second month, he was saved. And having now been saved, he greatly loved to work for God. So
that during the third month this young brother went along with us to preach the gospel in Mayflower Village. Now we had originally arranged with a school teacher whom we
knew to stay in his school. But when we arrived at the village, we were not allowed to stay in his school for he discovered that we had
come to preach the gospel. We searched till dark for a place to stay. Fortunately, an herbalist took us in and we settled in his attic.
In the evening, on January 7th, we ventured out to preach for the first time. An unusual atmosphere seemed to pervade the entire
village. The people were most courteous, but after listening to us a little while, they stopped us and walked away mumbling something.
When we asked them why, nobody would tell us the truth. We were extremely perplexed, for we seven discovered that all of us had had
the same experience. So we asked the herbalist, who was more frank with us—but even he would not discuss the matter with us.

On the following days we went out again to preach the gospel and to sell copies of the Bible. While doing so our young brother
committed a serious blunder one day. He became so impatient with the continual silent treatment that he took holdof a villager and
insisted on knowing what it was all about. “Don’t you know? We have too many gods here already,” blurted the villager, “and so we
are not able to accept any more gods.” Moreover, he continued, “We have a god here whose name is Ta-Wang∗. And every year in January we have a festival procession in his honor. You have therefore come at the wrong time, since the procession is going to be held on the 11th. We are all so busy in preparation that we cannot listen to you about your Jesus. Ta-Wang is so fabulous that ever since the Ching Dynasty and for over 200 years the day of the festival procession has always been clear. There has never been any rain!” Upon hearing such words, this young brother was so exasperated that he declared
there would be rain this year on the day of the festival procession. Immediately thereafter many young people of the village took this
remark up and broadcasted everywhere that a group of preachers had just asserted that there would be rain on the day of the Ta-Wang
festival procession. Within two hours, the whole village knew about it. People began to talk, saying that if there were rain, then our Jesus
is God; but that if there were no rain, then Ta-Wang is. When we others returned to the herbalist’s house, we learned about this episode. I told this youngbrother,“How could you have made such a declaration? You have no control over heaven.” “Well, let us go pray,” he answered. “Indeed, we may pray,” I said, “but will God answer our prayer? Is this according to His will?” Nevertheless we all commenced to pray. Though the supper was already prepared,
we had no heart to eat it. We prayed until all felt peaceful, void of any worry or anxiety. Every one of us seemed to be quite sure of God’s answer. Only then did we have our supper.

As we ate together, we told the herbalist that we all knew that on the 11th when Ta-Wang would have his procession there would be
rain. “In my opinion,” responded the herbalist, “it will not rain. And I would advise you not to carelessly assert otherwise. For first of all,
among over 2,000 families living in Mayflower Village, almost all the men live by the sea. Would they fail to know the weather? Why,
they are able to forecast it quite a few days ahead. But secondly, please consider my little shop. I live by keeping this shop. Hence
please do not implicate me in this affair.” Nevertheless, we all felt peaceful about the situation and were full of assurance that God had indeed answered our prayers. On the next day, the 10th, we went out again. Not only this young brother again said there would be rain on the 11th, we now alldeclared it. But when we tried to sell the villagers the Gospel
booklets and preach to them, we were refused on both counts. They simply said, “Let us wait till the 11th. If it rains on that day, then
Jesus is God; but if it does not rain, then Ta-Wang is god.” Surprisingly, on the night of the 9th we had received a promise from 2 Kings 2.14: “Where is Jehovah, the God of Elijah?” For this with which we were today confronted concerned the glory of God similarly to that of Elijah’s time. On the night before the 11th, we
prayed again. We knew that in the event there was no rain forthcoming, we would never again be able to preach to the ten thousand people of Mayflower Village. The door of the gospel would forever be closed. One or two of our brothers, weaker in faith, cried out: “If only God would send rain tonight!” We all slept in later than usual the next morning. As I lay by a
small window, the light of the sun shone on my eyes. I thought, What should we do?, for the sun was out. So I knelt down and started to
pray. Later, as one by one the brothers woke up, all knelt down to pray: “O God, this is the day to show forth Your glory. Please send
the rain to prove that You are God.” We all prayed most earnestly.

Then we realized our weakness, for why should we be praying in this manner since God had already answered? We all went downstairs to
eat our breakfast. Being the leader of the team, I tried to boost their spirits by telling the brother responsible for our food that he did not
need to prepare our picnic lunch because it would rain today and we would not be going out. We then gave thanks for our breakfast food. Suddenly, one brother continued to request that God keep His faith in
us. As we finished our first bowl of congee∗
, all at once we heard a few drops on the tiles. Looking at one another, we knew in our hearts
what it meant. We went for our second bowl of congee. I asked the others whether we ought to pray. One brother answered, “Why not
ask God to send a downpour, thus proving He purposely sent the rain and not that it is due to chance?” So we prayed once more. As we
finished praying, the sky began to turn pitch dark and the rain came down in torrents.
After we finished our breakfast, we stood at the door of the little shop watching for the procession. The festival procession was
originally planned for 9:00 in the morning, but rain poured down without stopping from 9 to 11 o’clock. According to tradition, the
procession could not be postponed more than an hour. So the villagers reluctantly carried the Ta-Wang idol outside. The rain was
truly heavy, and by this time the water stood two to three feet deep in the streets. And as Ta-Wang was being carried out of the temple, one
of the carriers fell into the water after only a few steps. Ta-Wang did too, breaking three fingers and one arm and twisting its head. The
people picked up the idol, adjusted its head, and marched on. Even so, many young people now followed behind and began shouting:
“Woe is Ta-Wang this year! Woe is Ta-Wang this year!” As they did so, the rain became heavier and heavier. So much so, that the procession had to stop. With the result that Ta-Wang had to be carried to the family shrine of the Chens.
Subsequently, some village elders went to seek divination from Ta-Wang, and quite ingeniously they came up with the conviction that Ta-Wang had not intended to come forth at all today, but that instead it would do so at eight o’clock in the evening of the 14th. While the old people of the village accepted this verdict, the young
people protested by asking why Ta-Wang should fall today and break
his arm and fingers. At lunch time, we asked God to clear up the sky so that we might
go out and preach in the afternoon. Having faith in God, we also asked Him to send rain on the evening of the 14th. The work that
afternoon was so successful that we quickly sold all the Gospels we had carried.
Since we had to return home on the morning of the 15th, we petitioned God to give us good weather on the 12th, 13th, and 14th—
so that we might labor for Him—but to rain during the evening of the 14th so that all people still in doubt might unquestionably know that
Ta-Wang was in fact no god. As anticipated, the sky was clear on the 12th, 13th, and 14th. Whereupon we decided to hold an evangelistic
meeting on the evening of the 14th at the herbalist’s shop—for by this time the herbalist had believed in the Lord (and even up to this
moment he remains a good brother in the Lord). And as might be expected, during the evening of the 14th it began indeed to rain. We
could see many people waiting at the front of the herbalist’s shop. Once again we climbed to the attic to pray, asking God to rain even
heavier. Praise the Lord, the rain grew heavier and heavier! And when the villagers carried Ta-Wang out, a number of people fell several times. Many young people shouted, “God is and not Ta￾Wang.” Needless to say, the work in that village was most successful. And before dawn on the 15th, we left for home. How truly thankful we were to God. The answers to our prayers are countless. And this in itself is
enough to prove that God is. Our spiritual experience is one of the best evidences for the existence of the living God

How We Can Meet God


If, then, there is a God, what must we therefore do? For it is not enough merely to believe that there is a God. We need to read Amos
4.14, which commands us all to do this:“Prepare to meet thy God.” Let me ask, Are you prepared to meet God? Since you know there is a God, how can you be negligent about Him? Are you currently able
to meet God? I hope none among us will be confused by the false assumption of the atheist. The first thing you must do is prepare to meet your God. Yet how can we meet God? There is but one way—through believing in the Lord Jesus. Why is this so? Because God shows grace in Christ. Outside of Christ, we are all condemned. “And might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and he [the Lord Jesus] came and preached peace to you that were far off [the gentiles], and
peace to them that were nigh [the Jews]: for through him [Christ] we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father” (Eph. 2.16-18).
Please notice also this passage: “In whom [Christ Jesus the Lord] we have boldness and access in confidence through faith in him” (Eph. 3.12). How can we meet God? The Bible tells us that we have boldness to approach God through believing in Christ Jesus. One very important thing which keeps us from meeting God is our sin. Sin hinders us from seeing God’s face; sin makes it impossible
for us to meet Him. But God has prepared for us a way to resolve the problem of sin, and that is, that the Lord Jesus has borne our sins on
the cross for us. He died for our sins. He was scourged and judged in our stead. Jesus was crucified because of you and me. On the ground of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, all who believe in Him can meet God with boldness because “the middle wall of
partition” (Eph. 2.14) has already been broken down and the problem of sin has thus been solved. So that we can now meet God without
any fear. I must tell you that one day every one of you must meet God. And you may either be accepted as one of God’s people or be
rejected as one of His enemies. What you need to do is to accept the Savior. Do not be an atheist but become a Christian. I beseech you to believe in the Lord Jesus and accept Him as your personal Savior. Remember that one day you shall have to meet God: there is just
no way to escape His face other than to hide in the Lord. If you do not hide in Christ today, it will be too late to try to hide when you
shall meet God one day. All therefore who are willing to accept the Lord should do so now without delay. Perhaps some may not quite understand how the blood of Christ can lead us to God. Our own conscience is a good way to explain it. Let us assume that in a judicial case, sin is presented before the court.
A witness, even the precious conscience in our heart, steps forward to bear witness to the fact that we have sinned. Now many dare not
think of God because of their evil conscience. They are afraid of God, and hence they do not want to have anything to do with Him.
Yet we need not be afraid since we have the Lord Jesus as Mediator. The Lord Jesus left the beautiful and glorious heaven to come
down here in order to bring us there. He suffered on earth that we might have peace with heaven. He died that we might have life—and was rejected that we might be accepted. We may now lay down our load of sins because the Lord Jesus has already been judged for us.
We may approach God through faith in Him. How terrible a thing it is for anyone not to believe that Christ has already borne all his sins
on the cross. May all of us open our hearts to accept the Lord Jesus. For in so believing, God shall be to us no longer a judge but instead a
beloved Father.

GraceAndPeace:
[u]People may disbelieve God, but they cannot deny there is morality. Let me tell you frankly, that though I am still young, at least ninety-nine out of a hundred atheists are questionable in respect of
their personal morality. I have yet to meet an atheist who lives somewhat morally. There are some in the audience who are older
than I. May I ask you if you have ever met an atheist whose morality is even slightly dependable? Whether asking fellow students,
business associates, or friends, the atheists whom I have met are all morally corrupt; s

You have used your personal experience to generalise that 99,,% of atheists are immoral. You're forgiving since you admit you're still young .Your experience is not enough.

My late father was an atheist. He never lived his life recklessly and was known to be a very honest person.


His friends who were atheist too that I know, also displayed the same character traits; they were honest people who also never lived life recklessly.

Most of the atheist I have met offline try to live an honest life

They don't look for trouble or brother you with their non belief. It is only here on Nairaland you see such things and it's because they want you to consider what you believe since they were once like you.

Christians are usually shocked to find out that the good and honest man they have known and doing business with doesn't believe in God. The next thing they say after the shocked has died down, usually goes like this,, "ah you're too good not to believe in God. You're supposed to be a Christian." " No no no. God will arrest you very soon" and blah blah blah


The idea that people are atheists because they want to live anyhow is simply not true.
Most atheists are people who detest lies. They don't want you to lie to them and they try not to lie to you .

And it's exactly for this reason they reject your religion that is based on lies and not because they want to live an immoral life or the ridiculous idea that they don't have God in them.


Don't get me wrong. There are atheists whose behaviour leaves much to be desired. Those ones have fallen for the pitfall of thinking that atheism gives one the licence to live life anyhow ..It has nothing to do with their non belief but how they have personally chosen to live their lifes.

Instead of focusing on atheist,you should be more worried for your follow Christians who don't follow strictly the moral code of your religion. They're lots of Christians who can't be regarded as Christians.

Those ones, don't they accept God exist? Or maybe they know your God doesn't exist and since they lack the courage to break away from the religion, they remain and pretend.

FYI, I am not an atheist. You can describe me as irreligious or agnostic.I don't attach any label to my self.

GraceAndPeace:
A bandit would like to believe there is no law enforcement; a bad student would like to believe there is no teacher; an unfaithful employee would like to be able to say there is no employer; and a wicked person would like to believe there is no law.

Loads of horse crap.
The law exists, teachers exist and employers exist. Those who go against the rules laid down by these people acknowledge their existence. Atheists would not want to "believe" your sky daddy exists, they just don't believe the sky fairy exists. It's the same way you don't believe Zeus or Santa exists.
Not everybody wants to be a Bible thumping, sky fairy worshipper and that's fine.
The rest of the write up is pointless because Atheists are people who do not believe in a god. Any other thing is useless and irrelevant.

triplechoice:


You have used your personal experience to generalise that 99,,% of atheists are immoral. You're forgiving since you admit you're still young .Your experience is not enough.

My late father was an atheist. He never lived his life recklessly and was known to be a very honest person.


His friends who were atheist too that I know, also displayed the same character traits; they were honest people who also never lived life recklessly.

Most of the atheist I have met offline try to live an honest life

They don't look for trouble or brother you with their non belief. It is only here on Nairaland you see such things and it's because they want you to consider what you believe since they were once like you.

Christians are usually shocked to find out that the good and honest man they have known and doing business with doesn't believe in God. The next thing they say after the shocked has died down, usually goes like this,, "ah you're too good not to believe in God. You're supposed to be a Christian." " No no no. God will arrest you very soon" and blah blah blah


The idea that people are atheists because they want to live anyhow is simply not true.
Most atheists are people who detest lies. They don't want you to lie to them and they try not to lie to you .

And it's exactly for this reason they reject your religion that is based on lies and not because they want to live an immoral life or the ridiculous idea that they don't have God in them.


Don't get me wrong. There are atheists whose behaviour leaves much to be desired. Those ones have fallen for the pitfall of thinking that atheism gives one the licence to live life anyhow ..It has nothing to do with their non belief but how they have personally chosen to live their lifes.

Instead of focusing on atheist,you should be more worried for your follow Christians who don't follow strictly the moral code of your religion. They're lots of Christians who can't be regarded as Christians.

Those ones, don't they accept God exist? Or maybe they know your God doesn't exist and since they lack the courage to break away from the religion, they remain and pretend.

FYI, I am not an atheist. You can describe me as irreligious or agnostic.I don't attach any label to my self.

My dear, no one is trying to condemn you or anyone, in short its because we love all men that we present the truth to them.

Its unfortunate that your Father died an atheist. But who knows, he may have changed his mind before passing on. You can't say how far he went with his beliefs.

Truly I agree with the author of this book that there are indeed Atheists for moral reasons and for other reasons. Its possible that all the atheists you know belong in the later category but the fact that there are immoral atheists cannot be overlooked also.

Many people including atheists are hateful, vengeful, malicious, dubious, perverts, etc And judging by appearance may not look so at all.
But one thing that would always bring their sins to the surface is their conscience. No matter how hidden ours sins are, the conscience would always speak them out.

Some people appease the voice of their conscience by performing religious dead works that have no spiritual foundation.

Others(mostly atheists) handle it by questioning the authority of the conscience, which is God.

Someone may appear good and still not be good. You can only see their outward behaviours/modifications. And you think you know them enough?

kingxsamz:


Loads of horse crap.
The law exists, teachers exist and employers exist. Those who go against the rules laid down by these people acknowledge their existence. Atheists would not want to "believe" your sky daddy exists, they just don't believe the sky fairy exists. It's the same way you don't believe Zeus or Santa exists.
Not everybody wants to be a Bible thumping, sky fairy worshipper and that's fine.
The rest of the write up is pointless because Atheists are people who do not believe in a god. Any other thing is useless and irrelevant.

You see, just like the author, I cannot argue with you. And its simple, you, the real you knows that there is God but you are suppressed by the so called intellectuality of the world.

There is you, poor you who knows there is God and then on the other side(right on top of you) there is reasoning, commanding you to only accept what your senses see.

How to get you to free from this oppressor is the reason for this book. No one is trying to get you to believe there is God. You already know there is God.

Now what, do we pray for a little shakening in your life? so your oppressor "Sense reasoning"
releases his grip on you.

Chapter 2

How a Good Man Goes to Hell

And he spake also this parable unto certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and set all others at nought: Two men went up into the temple to
pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the
week; I give tithes of all that I get. But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but
smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner. Isay unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather
than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled; but he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke
18.9-14)

This passage of Scripture gives us a parable, one which is spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ himself. In the parable, the Lord says that
two men go into the temple to pray: one is a Pharisee, the very best of men; the other a publican, the worst of men. Surprisingly, though, the result of their prayers is that the worst (the publican) is justified, whereas the best (the Pharisee) is condemned! What is meant by the term “justified”? It means that as a verdict of the court a man is declared not guilty. Not being justified means that he is declared by the court as guilty and thus must be punished. To be justified is what we believers commonly accept as our “being saved.” To put this in even plainer language, being justified signifies a going to heaven,
while not being justified denotes a going to hell. Consequently, what the Lord Jesus announces here is that a good man goes to hell but a
bad man goes to heaven.

We always reason that a good man goes to heaven and a bad man goes to hell. But the Lord Jesus declares just the opposite! Do not be shocked as though this were a new teaching, however. For let it be clearly understood that if there is anyone in heaven, he must (apart from the Lord Jesus) be a sinner. In heaven you cannot find nor see a good man. All in heaven are sinners! And in hell? Lots of good men are there! Do not comfort yourselves by thinking you will not go to hell because you are good. Let me tell you, many like yourself are
already in hell. And some who are there are even better than you are!

According to man’s logic, a bad person should go to hell as well as a good person. But in trusting in the Lord Jesus, the bad as well as the good may go to heaven. In the parable before us, however, the Lord Jesus Christ declares that a good fellow goes to hell but a bad fellow goes to heaven. For the way it works out in such a manner is that if you reckon yourself as righteous and better than the average person, then according to the
word of the Lord Jesus, a good man may go to hell; but if you humble yourselfand acknowledge yourself as sinful, you need not
despair of not being worthy to be saved, for according to Jesus, a bad man may go to heaven. Let us first notice just how good is this man in the parable who perishes, and then proceed to discover why such a good man goes to hell.

GraceAndPeace:


My dear, no one is trying to condemn you or anyone, in short its because we love all men that we present the truth to them.

Its unfortunate that your Father died an atheist. But who knows, he may have changed his mind before passing on. You can't say how far he went with his beliefs.

Truly I agree with the author of this book that there are indeed Atheists for moral reasons and for other reasons. Its possible that all the atheists you know belong in the later category but the fact that there are immoral atheists cannot be overlooked also.

Many people including atheists are hateful, vengeful, malicious, dubious, perverts, etc And judging by appearance may not look so at all.
But one thing that would always bring their sins to the surface is their conscience. No matter how hidden ours sins are, the conscience would always speak them out.

Some people appease the voice of their conscience by performing religious dead works that have no spiritual foundation.

Others(mostly atheists) handle it by questioning the authority of the conscience, which is God.

Someone may appear good and still not be good. You can only see their outward behaviours/modifications. And you think you know them enough?

Why are you deflecting? You asked a question and I responded by letting you know that it's not true that 99% of atheists are what you think. Instead of taking it from there, you want to run away.This is not good enough and it shows you want to engage in deceptive arguments.


The person who died foolishly believing that your religious God exist is the one who has died unfortunately. My father never died unfortunately. You say you are young and lack experience. So I will forgive for showing lack of respect for the dead.

Maybe when you grow up you would know better and dump your religion after knowing the lies in it.

At the moment, you're speaking from the position of indoctrination.You have been indoctrinated to believe that your rellgion is the only true one and unfortunately an indoctrinated religious person lacks the awareness to know that they have been brainwashed. So whatever I say would not make sense to you. That's how your brain works under indoctrination.

Muslims believe Christians don't know the truth and it's also due to their own indoctrination.

Think about this and start to question your beliefs to be sure that what you believe is actually the correct thing before trying to give it to others.

You said someone may appear good but may not be really good . Why don't you also consider it the other way round. Someone may appear bad to you ,but may not be really bad; The atheist you consider bad may not really bad ,but your religious beliefs has caused you to regard them as bad people.

GraceAndPeace:

You see, just like the author, I cannot argue with you. And its simple, you, the real you knows that there is God but you are suppressed by the so called intellectuality of the world.

There is you, poor you who knows there is God and then on the other side(right on top of you) there is reasoning, commanding you to only accept what your senses see.

How to get you to free from this oppressor is the reason for this book. No one is trying to get you to believe there is God. You already know there is God.

Now what, do we pray for a little shakening in your life? so your oppressor "Sense reasoning"
releases his grip on you.

Again, atheists are Atheists because they do not believe in a god/gods. Same way you don't believe in other fairytales. It's as simple as that. Your whole write up is a waste of time.

How many pints of Actavis did Op take

How will you simultaneously create a thread to describe atheists, while still getting the very definition of an atheist wrong?

Wilgrea7:
How will you simultaneously create a thread to describe atheists, while still getting the very definition of an atheist wrong?

isn't that what you people do when read the Bible and wrongly say rubbish things?

You atheists are very mad! When you attack us, you refuse to take correction and now you are complaining about not taking correction! Very funny.

kingxsamz:


Again, atheists are Atheists because they do not believe in a god/gods. Same way you don't believe in other fairytales. It's as simple as that. Your whole write up is a waste of time.

People who do not believe in a thing do not spend time and energy attacking that non-existent thing.

But once an atheist sees any thing God, boom, he goes nuts! violently berserk shaking and cursing and everything.

Which shows that is a person with a very very big problem with God. Like one who God don do am very strong thing!

Dtruthspeaker:


People who do not believe in a thing do not spend time and energy attacking that non-existent thing.

But once an atheist sees any thing God, boom, he goes nuts! violently berserk shaking and cursing and everything.

Which shows that is a person with a very very big problem with God. Like one who God don do am very strong thing!

Well, unless the actions of the adherents of these non existent things affect the everyday life of those who don't believe in it. It's common sense. Not sure you thought your comment through.

Dtruthspeaker:


People who do not believe in a thing do not spend time and energy attacking that non-existent thing.

But once an atheist sees any thing God, boom, he goes nuts! violently berserk shaking and cursing and everything.

Which shows that is a person with a very very big problem with God. Like one who God don do am very strong thing!

Atheists don't go berserk when they see things about God. I've addressed this fallacious reasoning in my thread "why I as an atheist spend my time debating religion"

Wilgrea7:

Atheists don't go berserk when they see things about God. I've addressed this fallacious reasoning in my thread "why I as an atheist spend my time debating religion"

I give it to you that you are one of the few who stay at a moderate tone while asking reasonable and probing questions.

But your problem is that you do not know that there is an end to asking question eg you may ask what are numbers? and I may answer something we use for counting. Then you ask what is counting? Ha! I did not think I was talking to a person who does not know counting. So I must leave. Let another person go through the stress of teaching you counting.

So, that is how I have seen you execute your atheism but for your other brothers and sisters, it is madness galore.

kingxsamz:


Well, unless the actions of the adherents of these non existent things affect the everyday life of those who don't believe in it. It's common sense. Not sure you thought your comment through.

In here, they do not affect your daily living, for you already know that when you see "religion section" you automatically know that those "adherents of these non existent things" will be here, but yet, you come in and go berserk.

People who do not believe in programming or fashion or investment never go to those sections. That is how it works.

But for you guys to be here displaying unreasonable and bewildering behaviours, tells us everything, which is how God has dealt with you people and that you people are just here seeking revenge against Him.

And since you can not attack Him, therefore you attack any one who is alligned with Him in proof of Deep Hatred and Personal Vendetta as Tamaratonye and co always do.

Dtruthspeaker:


In here, they do not affect your daily living, for you already know that when you see "religion section" you automatically know that those "adherents of these non existent things" will be here, but yet, you come in and go berserk.

People who do not believe in programming or fashion or investment never go to those sections. That is how it works.

But for you guys to be here displaying unreasonable and bewildering behaviours, tells us everything, which is how God has dealt with you people and that you people are just here seeking revenge against Him.

And since you can not attack Him, therefore you attack any one who is alligned with Him in proof of Deep Hatred and Personal Vendetta as Tamaratonye and co always do.

I'm not reading all that.
And no, I don't go "berserk" or whatever you mean by that. I enjoy the arguments.
And when I log out, I go on with my life. Doesn't mean I'm thinking about sky fairies.
Same way you came into this thread to argue with atheists. So?

kingxsamz:

I'm not reading all that.
And no, I don't go "berserk" or whatever you mean by that. I enjoy the arguments.
And when I log out, I go on with my life. Doesn't mean I'm thinking about sky fairies.
Same way you came into this thread to argue with atheists. So?

You have done your part of berserkness even though these days you have been moderate. But you have done your own berserking.

Dtruthspeaker:


You have done your part of berserkness even though these days you have been moderate. But you have done your own berserking.

I don't know what you mean by "berserk" because at the end of the day it's just words and arguments on the internet.
Nairaland isn't as interesting as it used to be, so you won't see me arguing much here, unless on Twitter. Like I said, I enjoy the arguments.

There's a lot to unpack here but I'd tackle every single one

GraceAndPeace:
Atheists for Moral Reasons

Towards atheists of this kind there is no use saying anything to them nor arguing with them. All that is appropriate is to look at their lives, because their immorality speaks far more loudly than their words. They profess to be atheists not because they have convincing evidences that there is no God, but because their lives are such that it is expedient for them to say there is no God. Their own moral statekeeps them from acknowledging that there is a God in the heavens and the earth. A bandit would like to believe there is no law enforcement; a bad student would like to believe there is no teacher; an unfaithful employee would like to be able to say there is no employer; and a wicked person would like to believe there is no law. This does not mean that they really do not believe that these things exist; it is simply that their own lives impel them not to accept these things at their face value. Yet if someone says to you, “I do not
believe in God, for there is no such person as God in my mind,” you may respond by asking: “Friend, how about your moral life?” Nothing at all need be said but to ask whether that person lives morally or immorally.

People may disbelieve God, but they cannot deny there is morality. Let me tell you frankly, that though I am still young, yet of the people whom I have met in these few years at least
ninety-nine out of a hundred atheists are questionable in respect of their personal morality. I have yet to meet an atheist who lives
somewhat morally. There are some in the audience who are older than I. May I ask you if you have ever met an atheist whose morality
is even slightly dependable? Whether asking fellow students, business associates, or friends, the atheists whom I have met are all
morally corrupt; so that they cannot believe in God�. Allow me to assert a truthful word, that if ever God goes out of a person, immorality takes His place in that one.

There was a well-known experienced preacher in America whose name was R.A. Torrey. Once when he was preaching at a certain place, a college student came up to him and said: “Formerly I believed in God, but lately I do not believe any more.” “For what reason do you now not believe?” asked Mr. Torrey. “Well, after I entered college, my knowledge increased; therefore I do not believe any more. I read this book and that book, until I eventually read God
away,” replied the student. “Do not try to deceive me,” Mr. Torrey responded, “for I too was a college student. I have read many books
and I have a doctor’s degree. But I have not read God away. You must have some hidden reason, otherwise you would not have read
Him out of existence.” Then Mr. Torrey continued. “Let me ask you a question. Now that you do not believe in God, how about your moral life?” To which the student replied somewhat candidly, “I must confess that my morality now is not as good as before.” Whereupon Mr. Torrey concluded with a word that was indeed well￾spoken: “I need not argue with you, nor raise up many reasons as
proof to you. If you simply stop doing these bad things and begin to live more morally, God will immediately return.” How factual that is,
for many fail to believe in God not because they have good reasons to do so but simply because their multitude of sins hinder them from
believing. They are compelled to be atheists.

This is filled with so much misconceptions that I'm starting to think this Mr Torrey of yours wouldn't last 1 minute in a debate with me or at least would find me a more formidable opponent than the low hanging fruit atheist he used as example. This is not a brag.

No! We don't believe in a god, nor do we believe in sin (which is usually defined as not adhering to the god's wishes). We aren't rebelling against God anymore than we are rebelling against Santa Claus.

Do you not believe in Zeus because you're actually rebelling against him? How about Odin, Thor or Krishna? Like most people, you don't believe in these gods because you aren't convinced they are real, not because there's some rules of theirs you don't like, and somehow trying to pretend they don't exist frees you from them. It would be silly to think I could exempt myself from Nigeria law by pretending that the Nigeria does not exist.

We don't believe in a god because we haven't
received sufficient, good-quality evidence that one exists.


If All I Wanted To Do Was Sin, I’d Sin And Ask Forgiveness
If all I wanted to do was sin, I’d just claim the title of “Christian” and do it. I mean, atheists are among the most hated groups where I live. So if I wanted to sin, I wouldn’t be an atheist. I’d be one of those liberal Christians so I could still get all the, like, respect a Christian gets, and then I’d “sin” and praise God for forgiving me. Because here’s the deal — in your system, even if I was a serial killer, if I genuinely asked for forgiveness at any point, God would forgive me. We atheists don’t have that. When we do something that hurts somebody else, we can’t go to a nonexistent God and ask for forgiveness and feel better about it. No. There’s no God; the primary offense wasn’t to God — it was to that person, and we have to make amends with that person, and there are absolutely no take-backsies granted by imaginary friends. So in that way, being an atheist is harder than being a Christian who can just go up to God and ask for forgiveness.

[quote author=GraceAndPeace post=117261728]Stiff-Lipped Atheists

This group of people proclaims that there is no God, yet without giving any reason. They are so stiff-lipped that no one can reason with them. If you ask them why they do not believe in God, they have no reason to offer but nonetheless insist that they do not believe. How can you deal with such people? Having asserted that there is no God, they will not change their mind. You may talk with them for days and nights on end and may even convince them with
arguments, yet they will still staunchly maintain their position. Whatever reasons they may eventually give are dogmatic and arbitrary. Their responses are quite adamant. What ever can you therefore do with them? The fact of the matter is that their mind is usually quite empty, having no reason to give; but their lips
insistently declare there is no God. And hence we call them stiff

GraceAndPeace:
Stiff-Lipped Atheists

This group of people proclaims that there is no God, yet without giving any reason. They are so stiff-lipped that no one can reason with them. If you ask them why they do not believe in God, they have no reason to offer but nonetheless insist that they do not believe. How can you deal with such people? Having asserted that there is no God, they will not change their mind. You may talk with them for days and nights on end and may even convince them with
arguments, yet they will still staunchly maintain their position. Whatever reasons they may eventually give are dogmatic and arbitrary. Their responses are quite adamant. What ever can you therefore do with them? The fact of the matter is that their mind is usually quite empty, having no reason to give; but their lips
insistently declare there is no God. And hence we call them stiff￾lipped atheists. There is no way to reason with the above two types of atheists.

Lmao! this is word for word how many atheists see religious people lol

hopefulLandlord:
...Do you not believe in Zeus because you're actually rebelling against him? How about Odin, Thor or Krishna? Like most people, you don't believe in these gods because you aren't convinced they are real,..

And no normal person even stops to argue against them at all. Not even if we are dashed data.

But not so with you supposed atheists you all just must show yourselves even proven here.

You do not even know that it is highly abnormal!