Truvelisback:
He felt that the two swords were enough perhaps He doesn't want it to look like they were going for war. He just wanted Moderation.

What does "no more of this " mean?

Truvelisback:
He did, not for himself but for Jesus. Jesus never wanted Peter to defend Him. Even when Pontious Pilate asked Jesus: Do u know that i save u from the hands of these people? Jesus told him that if He needed help, He would have asked His Father and He would have sent Him legions of angels for His sake.

So can you explain why none of the same Peter or the other apostles were ever said to have used swords for self-defence after that when they were being attacked and persecuted?

If Jesus actually asked them to have it for self-defence as you claim, did they misunderstand or were they disobedient to Jesus?

The natural sword is a symbol of the spiritual sword: the sword of the Spirit(Word of God), Ephesians 6:17. The sword Jesus was referring to isn't the natural sword, but the spiritual sword of the Spirit, which is the written Word of God(Logos). The Logos is divided into five(5) parts: The Law, The Prophets, The Gospels, The Epistles, and The Revelation. However, during the time of Jesus, only two(2) parts was concluded: The Law and The Prophets. The other three(3) parts were still in the making. When the disciples told Jesus that they have two swords, Jesus replied them, by saying, it is enough. Luke 22:36-38. Referring to the two concluded parts. Today, the written Word of God(Logos) is concluded. Children of God are in a better position to get more revelation from God. Shalom!

pastorkc4life:
The natural sword is a symbol of the spiritual sword: the sword of the Spirit(Word of God), Ephesians 6:17. The sword Jesus was referring to isn't the natural sword, but the spiritual sword of the Spirit, which is the written Word of God(Logos). ..!

Sweet!

And He said 2 Swords! John 8:17

pastorkc4life:
1. The natural sword is a symbol of the spiritual sword: the sword of the Spirit(Word of God), Ephesians 6:17. The sword Jesus was referring to isn't the natural sword, but the spiritual sword of the Spirit, which is the written Word of God(Logos).

2. The Logos is divided into five(5) parts: The Law, The Prophets, The Gospels, The Epistles, and The Revelation. However, during the time of Jesus, only two(2) parts was concluded: The Law and The Prophets. The other three(3) parts were still in the making. When the disciples told Jesus that they have two swords, Jesus replied them, by saying, it is enough. Luke 22:36-38. Referring to the two concluded parts. Today, the written Word of God(Logos) is concluded. Children of God are in a better position to get more revelation from God. Shalom!

1. So if what Jesus Christ didn't ask for them to purchase literal swords in that instance, then what you are insinuating is that the statements Jesus Christ made following the instruction were all lies?

2. Who gave you this idea for division of what you refer to as the Logos? God or men?

jesusjnr2020:
So can you explain why none of the same Peter or the other apostles were ever said to have used swords for self-defence after that when they were being attacked and persecuted?

If Jesus actually asked them to have it for self-defence as you claim, did they misunderstand or were they disobedient to Jesus?

From the topic abwnve, i asked: Why did Jesus tell His disciples to get sword? I assumed it was for that purpose otherwise, there wouldn't have been any reason for that. I wanna someone gives u a gun to keep with u or for use, what would be ur assumption? Be frank to urself. Leave religion or sentiment out of this.

Kobojunkie:
1. So if what Jesus Christ didn't ask for them to purchase literal swords in that instance, then what you are insinuating is that the statements Jesus Christ made following the instruction were all lies?

2. Who gave you this idea for division of what you refer to as the Logos? God or men?

I asked, for what purpose were the Swords meant for? U haven't given a concrete ans.

Dtruthspeaker:


Sweet!

And He said 2 Swords! John 8:17

Let's be realistic. Leave sentiment or religion out of this. If u see ur Pastor on the pulpit with an A.K 47 on his neck preaching, what would be ur assumption?

Truvelisback:
I asked, for what purpose were the Swords meant for? U haven't given a concrete ans.

I already did that by repeating exactly what Jesus Christ explained they were for. Only it seems you reject Jesus Christ's own answer for the reason why He asked them to get those swords. Notice a trend repeating itself again?

Truvelisback:
U never told US the reason for the Swords in their possession and u are here ranting.

Ọmọ drop your arrogance and come out openly to ask for knowledge from Jehovah's Witnesses, nobody will flog you for asking to know. Matthew 7:7

The Jews in the first century were planning a revolution against the Roman empire so most first century Jews were ZEALOTS, they're always in possession of daggers and swords anticipating the time when someone will lead them against Roman oppression.

Two Jews both claiming they're the Christ have tried it before Jesus but both of them were killed and all their followers scattered {Act 5:36-37} these two men lived about the time Jesus was a baby so when Jesus began his ministry he openly declared that both Theudas and Judas were thieves and plunderers {John 10:8} yet some of Jesus' disciples like Peter is still nursing the revolutionary movement even when Jesus told Peter that the Christ must suffer and die Peter immediately objects saying "God forbid" {Matthew 16:21-22} but despite the fact that Jesus called Peter "Satan" for the objection {Matthew 16:23} this man still nurse the ambition that someone must lead them against their oppressors.

So when Jesus now speak of SWORDS only two of his disciples are still keeping their swords while the rest have forgotten that ambition due to Jesus' teachings regarding love for enemies {Matthew 5:43-48} that's why our Master, Lord and King Christ Jesus told his friends that the two swords is enough {Luke 22:38} after all it's only just one they needed for the last lesson! Matthew 26:50-52

Go now and find the JWs the time left is short for all those proving stubborn.
Look i have warned you!

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ drop your arrogance and come out openly to ask for knowledge from Jehovah's Witnesses, nobody will flog you for asking to know. Matthew 7:7

The Jews in the first century were planning a revolution against the Roman empire so most first century Jews were ZEALOTS, they're always in possession of daggers and swords anticipating the time when someone will lead them against Roman oppression.

Two Jews both claiming they're the Christ have tried it before Jesus but both of them were killed and all their followers scattered {Act 5:36-37} these two men lived about the time Jesus was a baby so when Jesus began his ministry he openly declared that both Theudas and Judas were thieves and plunderers {John 10:8} yet some of Jesus' disciples like Peter is still nursing the revolutionary movement even when Jesus told Peter that the Christ must suffer and die Peter immediately objects saying "God forbid" {Matthew 16:21-22} but despite the fact that Jesus called Peter "Satan" for the objection {Matthew 16:23} this man still nurse the ambition that someone must lead them against their oppressors.

So when Jesus now speak of SWORDS only two of his disciples are still keeping their swords while the rest have forgotten that ambition due to Jesus' teachings regarding love for enemies {Matthew 5:43-48} that's why our Master, Lord and King Christ Jesus told his friends that the two swords is enough {Luke 22:38} after all it's only just one they needed for the last lesson! Matthew 26:50-52

Go now and find the JWs the time left is short for all those proving stubborn.
Look i have warned you!

Ask for knowledge from who? Lol. Just listen to urself. U should be the one asking knowledge from me. U have now accepted that the swords were meant for self-defence.

Truvelisback:
Let's be realistic. Leave sentiment or religion out of this. If u see ur Pastor on the pulpit with an A.K 47 on his neck preaching, what would be ur assumption?

Surely a man who is afraid of death which means that he is a man who knows that death is not good for him.

Which means he is a man who knows that he does not have Life.

Which means he is a man who is not with God.

Therefore, he is not God's pastor.

Truvelisback:
Good day, fellas. Why did Jesus tell His disciples to buy sword? According to the Book of Luke22:36-38. What kind of sword was Jesus referring abt? Is it the Physical sword or the Bible? Kobojunkie, this question is majorly for u and MaxinDHouse who against Christians' self-defence. How did Peter got the sword he had if it wasn't bought?

Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Yes I believe Jesus literally meant sword, however he didn't command them to use it.

Jesus was teaching an important lesson to the church because now the church would need to engage in warfare , this warfare is a spiritual one not a physical one.


2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

The scrupture is clear that the Christian warfare is not physical against flesh and blood but against demonic powers and principalities in the heavenly realm.

To tell you Jesus was not saying they should fight physically, they brought two swords and Jesus said it is enough, you know two swords is not enough to fight a battalion of soldiers so Jesus was not really saying they should fight physically but rather he used the sword as example to teach them to be ready.

Why did Jesus tell his disciples to buy swords?

Truvelisback:
Ask for knowledge from who? Lol. Just listen to urself. U should be the one asking knowledge from me. U have now accepted that the swords were meant for self-defence.

YES they're learning from you Sir!

Steep:


Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Yes I believe Jesus literally meant sword, however he didn't command them to use it.

Jesus was teaching an important lesson to the church because now the church would need to engage in warfare , this warfare is a spiritual one not a physical one.


2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

The scrupture is clear that the Christian warfare is not physical against flesh and blood but against demonic powers and principalities in the heavenly realm.

To tell you Jesus was not saying they should fight physically, they brought two swords and Jesus said it is enough, you know two swords is not enough to fight a battalion of soldiers so Jesus was not really saying they should fight physically but rather he used the sword as example to teach them to be ready.

Well, what u have just said is good and possibly an assumption because Jesus didn't tell them what to do with the swords. I also assumed it is for protection or self-defence because they followed Jesus whereever He went to with the Swords. Now, i wanna ask u, if u see ur pastor on the pupit with an A.K47 over his neck preaching in the church, what would be ur assumption?

Dtruthspeaker:


Surely a man who is afraid of death which means that he is a man who knows that death is not good for him.

Which means he is a man who knows that he does not have Life.

Which means he is a man who is not with God.

Therefore, he is not God's pastor.

The Swords Jesus told His disciples to get, are they different? Or where afraid of death too?

Truvelisback:
Well, what u have just said is good and possibly an assumption because Jesus didn't tell them what to do with the swords. I also assumed it is for protection or self-defence because they followed Jesus whereever He went to with the Swords. Now, i wanna ask u, if u see ur pastor on the pupit with an A.K47 over his neck preaching in the church, what would be ur assumption?

self defense is legal and approved personally but when it comes to the preaching of the gospel God's will supercedes human desire.

If my pastor weld an AK 47 over his neck and preaching I would assume it is for self defense.

But however such action can turn people away from the gospel.

Take for example Stephen who was killed because of the gospel did you think Stephen was foolish for not defending himself? No, why? Because sometimes God's call may lead us losing our life in line of duty but if it is not the will of God the best thing is to leave that location.

Truvelisback:
The Swords Jesus told His disciples to get, are they different? Or where afraid of death too?

Remember I said it was symbolic as to what is to come, up here.

Steep:
...If my pastor weld an AK 47 over his neck and preaching I would assume it is for self defense.

Say the truth and shame the evil. It proves your pastor does not trust in God therefore, he is not of God.

"To have respect of persons is not good:"

Every True Follower of God knows That The Law is, "He that would save his life will loose it"

And here we see your pastor saving his life. It therefore means he has not God!

That is just the simple Truth!

Dtruthspeaker:


Say the truth and shame the evil. It proves your pastor does not trust in God therefore, he is not of God.

"To have respect of persons is not good:"

Every True Follower of God knows That The Law is, "He that would save his life will loose it"

And here we see your pastor saving his life. It therefore means he has not God!

That is just the simple Truth!

Bro, God will not do everything for u. There are things u must do for urself.

Steep:
self defense is legal and approved personally but when it comes to the preaching of the gospel God's will supercedes human desire.

If my pastor weld an AK 47 over his neck and preaching I would assume it is for self defense.

But however such action can turn people away from the gospel.

Take for example Stephen who was killed because of the gospel did you think Stephen was foolish for not defending himself? No, why? Because sometimes God's call may lead us losing our life in line of duty but if it is not the will of God the best thing is to leave that location.

True, i get ur point. According to TenQ, based on that Bible passage, said they had the swords for self-defence because Jesus was abt to depart from them. The point i disagree with him was that, he said it's not for Physical self-defence but Symbol of spiritual Self-defence.

Dtruthspeaker:


Say the truth and shame the evil. It proves your pastor does not trust in God therefore, he is not of God.

"To have respect of persons is not good:"

Every True Follower of God knows That The Law is, "He that would save his life will loose it"

And here we see your pastor saving his life. It therefore means he has not God!

That is just the simple Truth!

Why will I think he does not trust God? I am not shallow, I understand the word of God.

Truvelisback:
From the topic abwnve, i asked: Why did Jesus tell His disciples to get sword? I assumed it was for that purpose otherwise, there wouldn't have been any reason for that. I wanna someone gives u a gun to keep with u or for use, what would be ur assumption? Be frank to urself. Leave religion or sentiment out of this.

True... so His disciples should know why for them not to use the sword for self-defence on any occasion. Or perhaps you're saying you know more than them why that was.

Truvelisback:
He felt that the two swords were enough perhaps He doesn't want it to look like they were going for war. He just wanted Moderation.

Do you know how they carried those swords? They were usually hidden under the garment. So, it would never have looked like they were going to war even if they all had carried two swords each.

FxMasterz:


Do you know how they carried those swords? They were usually hidden under the garment. So, it would never have looked like they were going to war even if they all had carried two swords each.

That means it was for self-defence.

jesusjnr2020:
True... so His disciples should know why for them not to use the sword for self-defence on any occasion. Or perhaps you're saying you know more than them why that was.

The Bible never told us whether it's for self-defence or not but from the scenerio, it is obvious that it is for Self-defence.

Steep:
Why will I think he does not trust God? I am not shallow, I understand the word of God.

You still refuse to shame the evil.

Truvelisback:
Bro, God will not do everything for u. There are things u must do for urself.

True!

But, there are very many many things we must no do at all because we understand and trust god eg, revenge, taking what is not your due (aka living honestly). being humble always even though the world would make it difficult.

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.

Isaiah 31:1
Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help

Isaiah 31:1
Verse Concepts
Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help
And rely on horses,
And trust in chariots because they are many
And in horsemen because they are very strong,

Truvelisback:
True, i get ur point. According to TenQ, based on that Bible passage, said they had the swords for self-defence because Jesus was abt to depart from them. The point i disagree with him was that, he said it's not for Physical self-defence but Symbol of spiritual Self-defence.

How!?
When!?

Truvelisback:
That means it was for self-defence.

That passage has many meanings. Anyone the Holy Spirit communicates to you carries a great message.

1. Jesus Christ's instructions to them to sell their garments and buy swords literally means defend yourselves. This defence could be physical or spiritual.

2. Jesus' command to Peter to sheath his sword means Jesus doesn't need physical defence at that time. He told Peter that "He could ask His Father for legions of Angels." The only reason why He didn't do that was that the Scriptures must be fulfilled.

3. Additionally, Jesus taught us self restraint in that passage. Peter and another disciple were armed but they were told not to use their arms. A situation whereby you have the power to do something but you discipline yourself not to do it even though you're under pressure.

4. Jesus actually didn't need those swords for that particular occasion. However, the disciples might need it in Christ's absence.

5. In the king James version, after Peter struck the servant's ear, Jesus said "Suffer it thus far." Meaning, don't take it further than this. He allowed Peter to fight until one ear was cut before cautioning him. Afterwards, He didn't say "Peter, what you've done is bad." But rather, He said "Put a limit to it here." Yeah, He wisely taught us self defense.

6. Jesus didn't say "He who fights with the sword dies by the sword." Rather, He said those who live by it would die by it. Meaning, we're not supposed to live by the sword, carrying it about like Peter did. Our life should not depend on it. However, in extreme situations where one's life is in danger, one must defend himself, either physically or spiritually.

We could take a clue from Acts of Apostles 23:23 where the high priest ordered Paul to be smitten. Paul immediately responded, "God shall smite thee, you whitewashed wall." This is a form of self defense. No sin was recorded against Paul for this. And in that passage, Paul was never smitten. He rightly defended himself.

In summary, don't live your life hoping to defend yourself carrying your sword about. Depend on God for your protection, but whenever occasions warrant, you're to run away, and if running can't help, you're free to defend yourself. You're not committing any sin.

The only reason why the Apostles never run or defended themselves before their matryadom is because they all had a foreknowledge that it was God's will for them to depart. Also, most of them were killed by government order. No one takes a sword against government even when wrongly sentenced.

FxMasterz:


That passage has many meanings. Anyone the Holy Spirit communicates to you carries a great message.

1. Jesus Christ's instructions to them to sell their garments and buy swords literally means defend yourselves. This defence could be physical or spiritual.

2. Jesus' command to Peter to sheath his sword means Jesus doesn't need physical defence at that time. He told Peter that "He could ask His Father for legions of Angels." The only reason why He didn't do that was that the Scriptures must be fulfilled.

3. Additionally, Jesus taught us self restraint in that passage. Peter and another disciple were armed but they were told not to use their arms. A situation whereby you have the power to do something but you discipline yourself not to do it even though you're under pressure.

4. Jesus actually didn't need those swords for that particular occasion. However, the disciples might need it in Christ's absence.

5. In the king James version, after Peter struck the servant's ear, Jesus said "Suffer it thus far." Meaning, don't take it further than this. He allowed Peter to fight until one ear was cut before cautioning him. Afterwards, He didn't say "Peter, what you've done is bad." But rather, He said "Put a limit to it here." Yeah, He wisely taught us self defense.

6. Jesus didn't say "He who fights with the sword dies by the sword." Rather, He said those who live by it would die by it. Meaning, we're not supposed to live by the sword, carrying it about like Peter did. Our life should not depend on it. However, in extreme situations where one's life is in danger, one must defend himself, either physically or spiritually.

We could take a clue from Acts of Apostles 23:23 where the high priest ordered Paul to be smitten. Paul immediately responded, "God shall smite thee, you whitewashed wall." This is a form of self defense. No sin was recorded against Paul for this. And in that passage, Paul was never smitten. He rightly defended himself.

In summary, don't live your life hoping to defend yourself carrying your sword about. Depend on God for your protection, but whenever occasions warrant, you're to run away, and if running can't help, you're free to defend yourself. You're not committing any sin.

The only reason why the Apostles never run or defended themselves before their matryadom is because they all had a foreknowledge that it was God's will for them to depart. Also, most of them were killed by government order. No one takes a sword against government even when wrongly sentenced.

Bravo!

MaxInDHouse:
Funny enough no sane believer can say Jesus supported the use of weapons when he:

©Never used weapons against anyone.
©Never killed anyone.
©Controls all the natural forces.
©Controls all spirit beings both good and evil.
©Always flee from attacking lesser beings.
©Asked his disciples whom he never taught how to use weapons to get one each.
©Told eleven men that two (physical) swords is enough.
©Rebuked a disciple who wanted to fight back in self defense.
©Angrily used the Archangel's voice only for all his enemies to fall dead.
©Cured one of his attackers whose ears got cut off.
©Surrendered his life on a torture stake.

So what exactly does he meant by the sword?

In the spirit realms it's the TRUTH uttered that kills evil beings not weapons {Revelations 19:15} Jesus referred to the Bible as TRUTH {John 17:17} Apostle Paul referred to God's word as SWORD of the spirit {Ephesians 6:17} he concluded that the Bible is like a double edged sword! Hebrews 4:12

Since Christians must not kill anyone not even their enemies {Matthew 5:43-44} and they're not to fear death in the hands of enemies since their resurrection is certain {Matthew 10:28} Apostle Paul concluded that Christians aren't fighting against flesh and blood {Ephesians 6:12} so we don't need physical weapons.

So our weapon is the BIBLE which each and every one of us must purchase a full copy with this weapon we will always conquer Satan the same way Jesus Christ did when he kept quoting this book saying:
It is WRITTEN: Matthew 4:4
It is WRITTEN: Matthew 4:7
It is WRITTEN: Luke 4:8

This is the reason why true disciples of Christ today know as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES all have a complete Bible each even if a JW has nothing he must be a proud owner of a copy of the Bible: our SPIRITUAL SWORD! Luke 22:36

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

Do u think Jesus would have accepted or prefer those sufferings and humilation from those lunatics, if not for His mission to save mankind with His spotless Blood? No! That was why He was referred as The Lamb of God. A Lamb can't fight or defend Itself. They could treat Him that way he came as a Lamb. Now, He is The Lion of Tribe of Judah.