Bulldog:

let's shoot facts.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4396

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot.
So his (left) foot was cut off.
He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.)
He was brought a fourth time and
he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.
He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.
So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.

That's the mercifulness of allah and the wisdom of mohamed. And as we saw the bizzare punishments didn't change the man. Let it be noted also that he passed judgement even before he knew the man's crime.
On the contrary, in this is what jesus christ did in a similar situation.

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her". Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you? "."No one, sir, " she said. "Then neither do I condemn you, " Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin. " (John 8: 3-11).

Between jesus christ and mohammed who really showed mercy and forgiveness? Is allah really merciful and is mohammed really a prophet at All? From the two actions, which one made the sinner repent? Let's stop deceiving ourselves.

bashy_demy:

^^^ Hello Mr are you that daft? am telling you about every counties and there law you are saying one law is wicked and bad are you crazy or something? who is you to interprete there law for them, Nigeria Senate just pass some laws on Gay and some western fools are going against Nigeria Law are they going to make our laws for us? I told you in China if you are caught with Cocaine or Fraud its death sentence you said you dont care about China Law why did you then care about Arab law wetin concern you with there Law. Have they ever pork nose into any other countries law? its there Law and anybody that cannot live with it should pack out of the country Shikena

bashy_demy:

^^^ WHat happen to laws of every land? I believe every country have there own law and contitution that back them up, FOr example in China, If you wee caught with Cocain its death sentence no matter the son of who you are, If you are caught with Fraud its death Sentence. SO now tell me are they still un stone Age?

So if that country Law says if you thief they gonna cut of your hand then you thief what else did you want as punishment? isn't there constitution that back them up.

Bulldog:

I was expecting that and it came in so fast which means it has been stored elsewhere probably given to you by your imam because moslems as i know them doesn't think out of the box. Secondly what i usually used to reply those verses you quoted is "tell that to the jews", bus since i'm trying to show a muslem the light of CHRISTIANITY(and not the jewish tradition that most were even extinct and weakly aplied during the time of christ 0 century AD and we are in the 21century lol), i'll take the pain of bringing you to order.if you happen to read deutronomy well and not take quotes, you'll notice in deut 6:1 that moses said

"Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it"

and from chapter 6 to 11, he stated the law of GOD that even Jesus Christ admitted he didn't come to change and was writen on a tablet of stone placed in the ark of convenant. worthy of note also is that none of these offences are PUNISHABLE BY MAN BY THE ALMIGHTY GOD ALONE. Then moses added his own laws to the jews as was captured in Deut 12:1

"These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

dont be led astray brother. ANd i assure you NON of those "extreme" mosaic Laws are still practiced by the jews this day. So all that your laws of moses are like bull poo to me.

in matthew 15:3, jesus was refering to Exodus 21:17 and not telling the people to murder those that disobey their parents but obviosly your imam didn't let you start from verse 1. The statement came up when the pharisees told the apostles of jesus that they should be punished for not washing their hands and feet before meal as tradition demands and Jesus was like: why should they be punised for that while the pharisees aren't punished for not keeping the law in exudos 15:3 (matt 15:1-. also notice that moses was punished for the sin of not doing exactly what the lord told him in deut 34:4 and that raises a question mark as to the Quote in exodus 21:17 and hence Jesus Christ took his time to explain the laws in matthew 5,6,7. i've seen nothing near that in Islam. but before i show you that sharia cuts hands and not fingers, i'll like to bore you in my next post with the explanations of the laws of old by Jesus christ in my next post if you want to see the light. before that, what the Hell is allah and mohammed doing with peoples hands and feet anyway?.why cant he come cut it himself! and how is it different from the boko harams legacy two Young men amputated in zamfara for stealing
why would KIDS be taught on how to amputate and kill if not for future use as religious killers for allah muslim militants trained young

Bulldog:

lol. some entertainment that is. Other places has their law as a group or a country or even a congregation and none and i repeat none of them  is made without taking the people into consideration, or does any of them goes past the domain to which it is applied. Islam is a religion and not a country!  if the various religions in nigeria are to apply their own laws over nigeria and every state is to have their own laws as islam has done, what will the nation be like? Yeah the nigerian government took a bold step towards the prohibition of same sex marriage and the christian community applauded them for that because the punishment was both rational and humane. If muslims where to pass a law on that, is most likely to stipulate that the sex organ of the offenders will be cut off or that hot iron be forced up their sex organs/canals and that's inhuman and evil! for the record, i'm not "pork nosing" into the affairs of islam because it's reeks of blood and evil, i'm only concerned because my brethens are persecuted by mindless set of people that doesn't value life but rather is set up "to steal, to kill and to destroy" just like the boko harám and their allies are doing for allah! Am concerned that in  ignorance people that are supposed to have imparted positively  to nigeria as a country are wasting their lives for a non existent promises.
Islam claim to be peaceful yet see what the quran says about other religions and that's what the boko harám you are denying are doing. If you have a quran(which i doubt) read Q.5: 51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya' to one another'c this is real falacy because in the Bosnia and Kosovo crisis Christian countries, waged war against another Christian country, to liberate Muslims. Many Jewish doctors volunteered to help the Kosovar refugees, despite the fact that during the WWII, the same Albanian Muslims took sides with Hitler
and helped him in his holocaust against the Jews that nearly wipe them from the face of the earth. So brother  grow up and stop swimming in deception.  christianity stand 4 the truth and islamic doctrines are evil

7.) we muslims have laws to abide by in an islamic state.you must not steal.if you steal dont complain that your hand would be cut off[b].in shia islam,fingers are chopped off and not the entire hand.[/b]in the bible likwise,stealing another man can warrant the death penalty.

bashy_demy:

Punishment for a disobedient son in the Bible
Deuteronomy 21:18-21:

  18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

  19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

  20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

  21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

LagosShia:

story story!

1.) Jesus convinced his audience he was not against the law thus he said he came to "fulfill" the law.

2.) he made reference to the death penalty for those to be stonned for cursing their parents and said they should suffer the death.

3.) the old testament and the new testament are both believed by christians to be "inspired" and the "word of God".

4.) i dont know what question mark Moses according to you being punished by the Lord places on exodus 21:17? is that fabrication?

5.) these laws are not found in the Quran.they are found in the bible.

6.) there is not one verse that promote stonning in the Quran.stoning is a judeo-christian traditional even if you claim that you no longer follow it.if you do not follow the laws in your holy book which you believ was inspired by God himself,then that by any means does not make your religion better than another religion which also have similar laws.you have rebelled against the bible,its laws and tradition and you want muslims too to be like you towards the laws believed to be inspired by God.

7.) we muslims have laws to abide by in an islamic state.you must not steal.if you steal dont complain that your hand would be cut off.in shia islam,fingers are chopped off and not the entire hand.in the bible likwise,stealing another man can warrant the death penalty.

Bulldog:

wow, i must say that the renumeration of sentences in your post is abundant in word count but lack content.do you think with your brain or with your spinal cord?:

1.Jesus convinced the audience he wasn't against the law but that he came to fulfiil it. how many people did jesus kill to fufill the laws that require killing, stoning and all that you stated which he came to fulfill? just name one

2. He made reference to death penalty for those to be stoned to death for cursing their parents and said they should sufer death. this shows you dont actually read my post but rather you extract the falsity that has been used to fill your head and paste it randomly. Again, how many people were killed by jesus christ for that sin?? name just one?

3.nobody is doubting that:-S. but if you have brains, from the quotations in my last post, which ever word that is directly from GOD is quoted thus and a reported speech of another person is a reported speech so try to improve in your english language too.

4. Num 20:12

And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. SOmetimes it' an honour to show you have a mind of your own. i read the bible and i understand, that's the essense of jesus christ sending the holy spirit that lives inside us and teaches believers.

5.Very true. If it was in the Koran/quran, why am i condemning it. worst things resides in the quran and is still practiced to this day. and from my previous example, mohammed condemns even before knowing the offence.

6.this ignoble act happened very recently and wasn't associated with either christianity nor judiasm, click the link for the story: a man partially buried and stoned to death in somalia by muslims
DO YOU KNOW THAT IN THE WHOLE OF THE BIBLE THE JEWS LEGALLY STONED ONLY 3 PEOPLE TO DEATH AND 5 IN MOB ACTION? DO YOU ALSO KNOW THAT IN THE BIBLE CHRISTIANS HAVEN'T STONED ANYONE TO DEATH AND THAT'S FOR A PERIOD OF ABOUT 6000 YEARS! YET IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS ALONE MUSLIMS HAS STONED ABOUT 50 PEOPLE TO DEATH? although the christians and jews have a difference in belief because jews didn't belief that jesus was the savior GOD promised of old but they worship the same GOd and believe that he alone is judge. Heb 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

7.My problem with muslem is that muslims make blind arguments.what you saw in the picture from zamfara, is it a finger or hand?
laws indeed! you cut off a persons hand and you still expect the person to repent and be useful. even if he repents, how useful can he get? Dont be deceived islam is evil

LagosShia:
he didn't because he was not in
charge of implementing the laws.he
did not have political power and
leadership.if he tries to,he would be
convicted of trying to undermine
roman authority.that was the case when the woman accused of adultery
was brought to him by the jews.the
jews wanted his verdict so they could
stone the woman and then accuse
Jesus of passing judgement in the
land.that would have given him an autmatic death sentence by the
romans.but Jesus was wise enough to
repel their strategy to trap
him.

LagosShia:
example of how Jesus upheld the mosaic old testament law: Exodus 21:17 "Anyone who curses his father or
mother must be put to death". Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour
thy father and mother: and, He that
curseth father or mother, let him die
the death"

LagosShia:
do you believe your god "inspired"
everything in the bible or not?

LagosShia:
you are wrong.not only was
Muhammad (sa) of high character but
also those around him.i can cite you
the example of Imam Ali (as) his son-
in-law.Imam Ali (as) knew who his
killer is going to be through prophecy and the information that was given to
him by the Prophet (sa) before the
Prophet's (sa) demise.people asked
Imam Ali (as) to kill the man so that he
will not kill him.but Imam Ali (as)
refused and said an innocent man cannot be killed.he said until the man
who was his servant commit the
crime,the servant is innocent and
free.then the servant struck him on the
head while Imam Ali (as) was
praying.yet still,Imam Ali (as) ordered that his servant who had struck him
must not be killed until he himself dies
as a result of his strike.and when he
dies,the servant should also be struck
once with a similar strike.he even
warned his cousins while he was bleeding for about 3 days not to spill
the blood of innocent people.so the
justice system of Islam and the
examples we have from the Prophet
(sa) and the Ahlul-Bayt (as) are
unparallelled.

example of how Jesus upheld the mosaic old testament law: Exodus 21:17
"Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".

Matthew 15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death".

LagosShia:
my friend both you and the jews can
feel free to abandon your laws and
religion and make it the way you
desire.you can worship your likes and
dislikes.by no way does that make
your religion better.you can deny in 60,000 or million years no one was
stonned by christians

LagosShia: #1 on: December 27, 2011, 04:59 PM » one thing i would
tell anyone is that Islam is not
responsible for these acts and anyone who carried this act cannot at all think
he is a Muslim.he is not a Muslim.as a
Muslim,the deaths of these innocent
people was not done or carried out in
my name or the name of my God or
the religion of Islam.these acts were carried out by evil men who got no
conscience and do not fear God.this is
not what religious people do.
these acts are only aimed at tarnishing
the reputation of muslims and loading
bullets into the guns of the evil minded missionaries like frosbel to condemn
Islam and make it look that Islam is
responsible. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/
topic-832290.64.html#msg983203

LagosShia:
Islam is beauty when applied
properly.for example,you dont cut
people's hand for theft when the
greatest theif in the state is the
governor who is more deserving to
have his fingers chopped.you also dont cut someone's fingers when you
know he was stealing to feed
himself.in Islam,society has the
responsibility to ensure no one sleeps
hungry.if that cannot be implemented
firstly to ensure everyone can at least have food to eat,then you cannot
chop someone fingers for theft if he is
stealing to eat.theft and its punishment
is supposed to deal with greed and
criminals.responsible as part of their
evangelization and propaganda to win the war for converts.it is like an
opposition party attacking the
president everytime a policeman
commits a crime.

LagosShia:
but the barbarity
done in the name of christianity and
the witsch burnings cannot be
concealed.furthermore,take the Lord's
Resistance Army in Uganda who are fighting for the implementation of
biblical laws in uganda.how do you
think the pope or a christian clergy or
system can rule a country and
implement laws to fight crimes? they
would either have to take biblical laws or pretend "forgiveness"

LagosShia:
so please,when you talk
dont talk blindly against Islam which is a set of ideas and principles.talk
against the people who dont follow
islam properly and implement its laws
as it should be.even i as a muslim
would support you if you condemn
the wrongs of muslims and you do not attribute their wrongs to islam.it
becomes very disgusting and
irrational when everytime a muslim
does wrong christians hold the
religion

Judek2:

One of the things I enjoy in this forum is that, It shows Muslims as ignorant students and makes us their teachers. But the complaints of the teachers is,"My students are so loose in understanding a simple Comprehension".

Lets review the verses
Matt.15-1
Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees,which were of Jerusalem,saying,
2) Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3) But Jesus answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4) For God commanded,saying, Honour thy Father and thy Mother: and, He that curseth Father or Mother,let him die the death.
5) But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift,by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
And honour not his Father or his Mother, He shall be free. Thus have ye made the covenant of God of none effect by your tradition.

They wanted to accuse the disciples of not keeping the law,but Jesus quoted that verse to them as they dont keep it either.
This is wise,if they keeps all the law,then they are right,but when they dont keep them and points fingers on others who dont keep them too,they are hypocrites.
Its like,"if my disciples must wash their hands according to the law,you must start killing those that curses their Father and Mother also,but since you no longer practice the law,why try to judge them according to the law?".

So tell me,did Jesus sanction it to them or rebuked them?
And tell me any verse where Jesus exhibited that statement?

sino:

@judek2&bulldog
what you guyz are saying is that, since jesus asked the phraises why they dont follow the law of God it means he didnt accept the law? And mind you jesus came to fulfil the law(mathew 5:17-18). Tell me guyz how did jesus fulfil the law of God? Let me paint anoda scenario for u to get it straight, inspector to coporal: why did you collect twenty naira dont you know its against the law of the land?
coporal: oga na, i saw u to collect ghana must go from that politician yesterday na
inspector: ok, carry on Talking of hypocrites,
A good question lagoshia asked"do you believe that all in the bible is inspired by God? If you say no then it's not worthy of being called a holy book of God.
the Qur'an was inspired by God in a span of 23years, you can get a copy to read that God is the one talking in the Quran, not someone hallucinating or a group of historians.

Bulldog:

I have a koran and the hadiths and if you read my post , it has quotations from both. I can tell you with authority and proofs evident in my posts that the hallucinations of those historians are inspired by a divine authority and is far more superior to what your allah have to say in the quran. Dont be deceived mohammed made all those things up. He already has the documentaries of the jews and their laws (the old testament) and the "hallucinations" of the christians (the new testament) since islam came way after both (approximately 6centuries after christianity). All he has to do is twist the facts in the old testament and formulate lies about jesus christ and his apostles in the new testament to form the monumental lie called the quran.

sino:

well please provide proof to your statement.
only if you claim to know more than your bible scholars. Example, dr. W. Graham Scroggie of the moody bible institute, chicago says in his book titled: is0the bible the word of God, "yes, the bible is human, though some, out of a zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men, and bear in their style the characteristics of men."

Bulldog:

hahahaha , you have a very little mind. Koran is originally in arabic(correct me if i'm wrong please) does that mean that the language of allah is arabic? Isn't it through mohammed who wrote it down that the word allegedly passed through? The many translations of koran including the english, french, Isn't it men that translated it? The translations aren't the processing by men?. Think again friend and then come up with something else more realistic.

sino:

1. i wIll enlighten you dear bulld6g
2. Sino said he will enlighten you
3. Bulldog will be enlightened by sino
of the three above sentence, which can be attributed to me?
now open your mind and read carefully, language is a means of communication and to an extent a form of recognising where you are from but you dont say a black man speaking chinese is from china.
you dont attribute that which is God to man & man to God. I think that is were christianity got it all wrong.