Hello again everyone.

So I've been having a discussion about personal relationships with God recently, and I decided to open a new thread about this to get more opinions on the issue.

The idea of having a "personal relationship with God" is something that exists abundantly not only in Christianity, but in a couple of other religions as well. And a lot of people claim to have such relationship with a God of some sort.

So my question is really simple. If you indeed have a personal relationship with a God, then why do you need religious books? Why do you need the bible, Quran, Vedas, or any other religious book to know what God says, or what God wants?

In the personal relationships we have in our everyday lives, we talk to, and interact with these people personally. We know things about them, not because we read them somewhere, but because we've shared similar experiences with these people to know these things.

When we hear from our loved ones, or the people in our lives, we don't rely on third parties, or old novels they wrote to someone else. We converse with them directly.

Without any independent direct conversation, free from influence by religious scripture, how can you call your relationship with any God "personal"?

In addition to that, I also wanted to talk about people who use their "experiences" as proof for their relationship with God. This applies both to natural everyday experiences, as well as the ones people deem "supernatural"

For example, if you're really in need, and a good person comes in from nowhere and helps you, you'll claim God sent the person. If you get a job after months of trying, or get a promotion, or acquire some big win in life, you'll most likely attribute it to a God.

It doesn't just stop at the natural things. Even people with "supernatural"experiences make the same claim. A person could "die" and just when they're about to cross into the light, they see a bright light and hear a voice telling them it's not yet your time, and then they wake back up.

But which God exactly do these experiences prove? If you had these experiences, which God would you attribute these things to, in order to form a basis for a relationship?

Why would you attribute a good thing, or a supernatural miracle to the christian God instead of the muslim, or hindu, or egyptian one?

Without any religious books to make reference to, how would you interpret these experiences?

MaxInDHouse come, answer questions

Templee333:

MaxInDHouse come, answer questions

OK, have you now admitted that you're an atheist?
First admit publicly that you Templee333 is an atheist then i will answer him, until then the post is addressed to all those claiming "believers" including you!

MaxInDHouse:

OK, have you now admitted that you're an atheist?
First admit publicly that you Templee333 is an atheist then i will answer him, until then the post is addressed to all those claiming "believers" including you!

i don't know ur definition of "atheist". If,by atheist,you mean someone who don't believe in ur Jehovah,Awake,watchtower & all those cock and bull bible stories,yes i don't believe them. i only believe facts that can be proven, not stories.

Templee333:
i don't know ur definition of "atheist". If,by atheist,you mean someone who don't believe in ur Jehovah,Awake,watchtower & all those cock and bull bible stories,yes i don't believe them. i only believe facts that can be proven, not stories.

OP wasn't talking about Jehovah, Awake or Watchtower so defend your beliefs if you have one instead of calling out those having faith!

MaxInDHouse:

OP wasn't talking about Jehovah, Awake or Watchtower so defend your beliefs if you have one instead of calling out those having faith!

As the OP, I can confirm that I was talking about all gods, which also includes Jehovah. So now, you can go ahead and tell us why you need the bible or any other book to have a relationship with your God

Wilgrea7:

As the OP, I can confirm that I was talking about all gods, which also includes Jehovah. So now, you can go ahead and tell us why you need the bible or any other book to have a relationship with your God

I have no issue with you Mr Atheist it's the one who supposed to answer you but mentioned my name that i'm after.
As for you you're free to believe whatever you want it's your cup of coffee!

You can't have a real personal relationship with imaginary beings. The ones in your head are just an extension of you and cannot know what you don't know. Which is why the god never revealed anything people of those periods when those books were written didn't already know.

My simple challenge is still up, if you believe you have a relationship with the god, ask him to tell you my full home address.

I just want all you professed atheists to know that you're not alone there are many claiming believers but in reality they are atheists!

PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God is possible but it takes an organization of God's people to make such a relationship worthwhile.

I will respond to the OP but let those who often claim they have a personal relationship with their God in the absence of an organized group speak first!

OK let's talk about PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP!

It's the closeness between two persons that leads to personal relationship between them, this has to do with how much both parties know each other. So before two persons can build such a relationship they have to love each other from the heart, share the same feelings and pains. This requires a lot of sacrifices because the two must be ready to do whatever it takes for the happiness of each other.

Of course a layman will feel this can only be possible between two persons that can see each other but that's a lie it's also possible in fact more profitable when the other party is an invisible person!

To be continued.....

Holy Books are your Conversations with God.

Before two persons start a relationship on the internet or faceless social media like this it's the comments that draws each other to feel like getting closer a time will come each will begin to ask intimidate questions like their looks, hobbies, choices in colors, food and so on. The same is applicable to two persons that one is invisible, the visible will like to know so much about his/her invisible friend so that any time an invisible stranger comes around to impersonate his/her friend it would be easy to detect. And since the visible one can only give what is visible as contribution to their friendship he/she will also like to know what the invisible can contribute to their friendship so both of them will feel loved.

So just as our comments makes us feel like seeing the person behind it's the Holy book that draws us closer to it's Author that's why the Author must proved to be of fine qualities like LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS GENTLENESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL {Galatians 5:22-23} without these qualities no sane individual will like to know or become a friend of a person whose attributes negates the above!

To be continued.......

MaxInDHouse:


I have no issue with you Mr Atheist it's the one who supposed to answer you but mentioned my name that i'm after.
As for you you're free to believe whatever you want it's your cup of coffee!

but i was calling ur attention to an opportunity to advertise ur religion,don't u know u should be thanking me?

orisa37:
Holy Books are your Conversations with God.

How exactly is a book the same as a conversation?

How can a collection of written text about other people's experiences with a God equate to having a one on one conversation with said God?

MaxInDHouse:
Before two persons start a relationship on the internet or faceless social media like this it's the comments that draws each other to feel like getting closer a time will come each will begin to ask intimidate questions like their looks, hobbies, choices in colors, food and so on. The same is applicable to two persons that one is invisible, the visible will like to know so much about his/her invisible friend so that any time an invisible stranger comes around to impersonate his/her friend it would be easy to detect. And since the visible one can only give what is visible as contribution to their friendship he/she will also like to know what the invisible can contribute to their friendship so both of them will feel loved.

So just as our comments makes us feel like seeing the person behind it's the Holy book that draws us closer to it's Author that's why the Author must proved to be of fine qualities like LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS GENTLENESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL {Galatians 5:22-23} without these qualities no sane individual will like to know or become a friend of a person whose attributes negates the above!

To be continued.......

In the beginning, you talked about how 2 strangers can converse one on one, and get to know each other over time.

In the second paragraph, you begin to talk about holy books.

Since when did a holy book equate to a personal, one on one conversation? Please note the use of the word “personal"

Why does personal relationship have to hinge on a book? What sort of a relationship is built on vague one-way texts?

MaxInDHouse:
OK let's talk about PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP!

It's the closeness between two persons that leads to personal relationship between them, this has to do with how much both parties know each other. So before two persons can build such a relationship they have to love each other from the heart, share the same feelings and pains. This requires a lot of sacrifices because the two must be ready to do whatever it takes for the happiness of each other.

Of course a layman will feel this can only be possible between two persons that can see each other but that's a lie it's also possible in fact more profitable when the other party is an invisible person!

To be continued.....

This is very funny.
So you mean it's more preferable to have a personal relationship with an invisible person?

The numerous victims of Yahoo boys would never agree to that.

I think it's about time you started investigating the "invisible person"behind your holy book.

One is easily scammed when they don't know the true identity of the person they're relating with.

So this advice of yours is not good enough. You can only profit more by having a personal relationship with a visible person .
In a way, your Bible has told you that below

orisa37:
Holy Books are your Conversations with God.

Who were the persons that wrote the holy books?

Templee333:
but i was calling ur attention to an opportunity to advertise ur religion,don't u know u should be thanking me?

Meaning you have no religion: ATHEIST. Shey!

Wilgrea7:

In the beginning, you talked about how 2 strangers can converse one on one, and get to know each other over time.
In the second paragraph, you begin to talk about holy books.
Since when did a holy book equate to a personal, one on one conversation? Please note the use of the word “personal"
Why does personal relationship have to hinge on a book? What sort of a relationship is built on vague one-way texts?

When two persons can see each other visibly communication is made easy but in the case where one is invisible then they have to find other means of communication which is texting and reading just as we're both doing right now!

triplechoice:

This is very funny.
So you mean it's more preferable to have a personal relationship with an invisible person?
The numerous victims of Yahoo boys would never agree to that.
I think it's about time you started investigating the "invisible person"behind your holy book.
One is easily scammed when they don't know the true identity of the person they're relating with.
So this advice of yours is not good enough. You can only profit more by having a personal relationship with a visible person .
In a way, your Bible has told you that below

You only need to as why i said it's more profitable instead of concluding for me!

There are many faithful Witnesses in ancient times who enjoyed PERSONAL relationship with God:
Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, David, Elijah, Jeremiah, Daniel and Jesus of Nazareth.
Each of them had a personal relationship with God but something makes their joy incomplete: an organization with which they can relate!
God promised that when His message to human is complete and perfected millions across the globe will each enjoy a personal relationship with Him through His complete message.
Then all of them will relate as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4} and it will seem as if they're speaking the same language! Zephaniah 3:9

MaxInDHouse:


You only need to as why i said it's more profitable instead of concluding for me!

Here below is what you advised.

MaxInDHouse:


Of course a layman will feel this can only be possible between two persons that can see each other but that's a lie it's also possible in fact more profitable when the other party is an invisible person!

In the above, you emphasised that it profits more when you have a personal relationship with an invisible person. Yes or no?

But 1 John 4.20 says, before you can profit from that, you must have a very good personal relationship with a "visible person", if not you're wasting your time.

I didn't conclude for you.

If you don't know how to live harmoniously with those you can see, there's no way you can do that with an invisible person you can't see.

It's what your Bible has adviised ,but you think otherwise.

MaxInDHouse:


When two persons can see each other visibly communication is made easy but in the case where one is invisible then they have to find other means of communication which is texting and reading just as we're both doing right now!

Would you get a reply from God if you texted him?

triplechoice:

Here below is what you advised.
In the above, you emphasised that it profits more when you have a personal relationship with an invisible person. Yes or no?
But 1 John 4.20 says, before you can profit from that, you must have a very good personal relationship with a "visible person", if not you're wasting your time.
I didn't conclude for you.
If you don't know how to live harmoniously with those you can see, there's no way you can do that with an invisible person you can't see.
It's what your Bible has adviised ,but you think otherwise.

You quoted me out of context!

Now where do you want to keep this part of my post?:

MaxInDHouse:
I just want all you professed atheists to know that you're not alone there are many claiming believers but in reality they are atheists!

PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with God is possible but it takes an organization of God's people to make such a relationship worthwhile.

I will respond to the OP but let those who often claim they have a personal relationship with their God in the absence of an organized group speak first!

So without an organized people in whose midst LOVE, JOY and PEACE {John 13:34-35} reigns personal relationship with God won't go smoothly for a human being.

That's why God's word nullifies the claim of any personal relationship with God when you can't present a group of worshipers with whom you share the same line of thought in Love!

triplechoice:

Would you get a reply from God if you texted him?

It's through praying that we can communicate with God i only used texting as an illustration!

MaxInDHouse:


Meaning you have no religion: ATHEIST. Shey!

if that is what u want to hear, YES,i have no religion. Is that what u call atheist? In that case i'm not afraid of being labeled "atheist".

MaxInDHouse:


When two persons can see each other visibly communication is made easy but in the case where one is invisible then they have to find other means of communication which is texting and reading just as we're both doing right now!

The idea of 2 persons not being able to see each other makes progressively less sense, when you consider a God who's supposed to be omnipresent, and omnipotent. Sure, I cannot see him, but he can very well see me (assuming he exists). Plus, he has the ability to reveal himself in ways that would make me know he exists.

According to your Bible, he's certainly not mute. He can talk. That's how he communicated with Moses, and Abraham, and Joseph. This is also accompanied with signs. The bright light with Paul. The burning bush with Moses.

Your God certainly seems to have the ability to show himself in a way that the recipient would clearly know it's him. So why is he silent then? Why is he hiding?

On to the next point. Even though we're separated by hundreds of miles, and communicate through texts, the messages are still very much direct. That's why we have platforms like whatsapp, calls and other direct online communication channels.

Even here on nairaland, a general forum. When you mention my name or quote me in a response, like I am doing now, the response is aimed directly at me. And in real time.

It would be incredibly stupid, if I went back to your posts from years ago, when we clearly haven't met, and somehow, used the conversations between you and someone else, as the basis of our friendship.

Relationships, be it friendships, or even enmity, come from shared mutual experiences. No matter how much I read about you, or how much you read about me, It does not equate to a friendship. Friendship or relationships can only come from direct personal connections, and nothing about the bible is direct, or personal.

The only people who can claim to have such connections are the ones you read about. The stories you read about in your bible. Those are the stories of other people's personal connections. Just as it is impossible to base my friendship/enmity with you on your old responses to other people, you cannot similarly base your relationship with this "God" on his old conversations with other people.

I'll say it again. Information about somebody is NOT equal to a relationship with them.

MaxInDHouse:


You quoted me out of context!

Now where do you want to keep this part of my post?:



So without an organized people in whose midst LOVE, JOY and PEACE {John 13:34-35} reigns personal relationship with God won't go smoothly for a human being.

That's why God's word nullifies the claim of any personal relationship with God when you can't present a group of worshipers with whom you share the same line of thought in Love!

Please focus on what I drew your attention to in your comment.

It's not about your organisation, but whether it's possible to have a more profitable personal relationship with an invisible person without having it first with a visible person


Your Bible says personal relationship with a visible person is the first step and key to having any kind of good personal relationship with an invisible person.

Are you rejecting that?

Modified. Ok, I get you now. Only members of your organisation are your brothers. Your blood brother who doesn't belong there is not your brother.
Did the Bible make any such distinction in 1John 4:20

Templee333:
if that is what u want to hear, YES,i have no religion. Is that what u call atheist? In that case i'm not afraid of being labeled "atheist".

Good!
So stop stalking me claiming you're in support of some Christian religion rather tell all of them that you have no religion: atheist!

Wilgrea7:

The idea of 2 persons not being able to see each other makes progressively less sense, when you consider a God who's supposed to be omnipresent, and omnipotent. Sure, I cannot see him, but he can very well see me (assuming he exists). Plus, he has the ability to reveal himself in ways that would make me know he exists.

Can you see me now?
Does that mean i don't exist?
Come on! God can see us but it we that can't see Him.

MaxInDHouse:


Can you see me now?
Does that mean i don't exist?
Come on! God can see us but it we that can't see Him.

Now you're just trying to be shady.

Like Dtruthspeaker, you've resorted to selective quoting, while ignoring the rest of my response where your argument has been clearly debunked.

I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. When you've actually read the whole of my response, and can come up with a reasonable counterargument, I'll be happy to engage.