The Bible is not the inerrant word of God but a compilation of writings by men at this time.

Ok, So God was suppose to come out and pick up a pencil to write. Am sure you believe people are inspired, like you are now by some . . . I dont know

However, the book of Thomas and the book of the Gnostics were left out of the Bible on purpose by Constantine.

There too many versions of lies. One said the book of Barnabas was left out by the same Constantine. And the book of Barnabas says, Jesus and Judas look so much alike that even the disciple and the people who arrested Jesus could not tell the difference. So it was Judas that was crucified.
The other book said Jesus was an Homosexual. Another said he was not but had a wife and kids. And so on. . .
These are all sect,cultist, who felt threaten by his ministry and are as desperate as these fellows  

People also did not live as long so the notion of spending one's entire life with the same person was not so difficult when life ended at 30 years old instead of 90 or 100.

Whats this about.  . . Evidence

The bible causes alot of harm to people.  For example, women stay in abusive marriages because they believe the bible is against divorce.

The bible is against divorce. It discourages it, because then, with the excuse of adultery, men dispose easily their spouse as they so please,sampling ladies. (sometimes it was engineered). There is no such thing as a perfect marriage. The best of marriages were called so because those involved in it tolerated, loved, forgave, And when it comes to a brute husband been abusive, she could stay away. The bible says you can divorce for reason of adultery for the stubbornness of you, so might do it for wickedness of the husband.

Christians are the most widely know religious group to take aspets of the religion of the people they wish to control and add it to thier own religion to make it more favorable to the outsiders.

Was Constantine a christian when he took such decision? Why did he do it(for his empire),,thought he needed to agree with the christians to win them over? Many of the suggestions he made were opposed and the debate went on for a long while(years)
Chritianity is not some difficult complex ritual way of life. It simply a way of life which encourages you to love your neighbour the way you would expect to. So imbibing some simple lifestyle which it does not harm any and making you live peacefully with others is a good. Thats why people easily adopt it.

many of the acient books that painted the true picture of Jesus, as a normal man with wife and children were deliberately left out. Instead Constantine the great opted for versions that painted Jesus as the devine son of God.

This so called many books were books written by anti-christ like you to infiltrate the book for confussion. The decision to let those books out were not solely that of Constantine, it was in agreement with the christians he needed in his empire (since he knew their number was fast increasing)
One of such other book is THE SEVEN BOOKS OF MOSES, which was never written by Moses, but a magical book. Even the gray message will tell you so.
Another version of story is; Constantine solely determined Jesus' divinity. Well, Constantine himself later became a christian, JUST LIKE YOU TOO ARE GOING TO BE . .  

bros1234:

if at the end I am wrong by believing in the bible and its teachings, of course, I lost nothing

That's where you are wrong, and I am not surprised you didn't even notice. You would have lost a lot - spending your whole life believing in fairy tales is as if you never existed in the real world but rather in the realms of fantasy; like Alice in Wonderland. Say hello to the Mad Hatter.

Everyone cannot live in reality, it is too much to handle.  Religion helps many people to deal with life and cope with anxiety, just like drugs, alcohol, and sex do for others.  That is why religion is called the opiate of the people and why so many are afraid to let it go.  

Yes the modern KJV version of the bible is a Big hoax there are many dodgy ideas about it, It was re written and many part of the original Bible was taken out from it that is why this Modern day Bible which Many so called Christians fool them selves carrying are so full of contradiction , My people if you wanna see the real Bible go to Israel and ask for it it is written is Hebrew ancient language, so how come it was re written to English, that is the work of King James  of England to take over the world, i see the reason its a book to use to Capture slaves from Africa, and take over the world.telling you heaven and earth, while the average white man is in earthly heaven and the black man i in hell on earth,

see the contradictions.



Why Do Christians Ignore These Rules In The Bible?
« on: August 19, 2009, 10:54 PM »

Peace to you all!
I ‘ve got this thing that has been poking my mind for a long time, its got to do with how Christians ignore or disregard some important rules in the bible (as if all rules are not important). I mean there are quite a few verses I stumbled upon that many Christians don’t follow and when I asked a self professed pastor why, do you know what he told me? “Those are rules for the old days, they don’t apply to the present day”. Can you imagine a pastor telling me that? So I mentioned these verses:

- Deuteronomy 28:15:
But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee

- Matthew 5:17-20:
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. New International Version

Well, he ran away after checking the verse cos he couldn’t give me an answer, but there are many other questions I have like; why women don’t cover their hair (like the Muslims) even in church as ordered in the verse:

- I Corinthians 11:6:
So if a woman does not cover her head, she should cut off her hair. If it is a disgrace for a woman to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her own head. ISV
Women are not allowed to speak in Church, but women have gone as far as becoming pastors today, Why? The Bible clearly states that:

- I Corinthians 14:34-35:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

When Christmas comes around, many Christians all over the world set up Christmas trees in their houses when it clearly states that they shouldn’t in the following verse:

- Jerimiah 10:2-5:
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

So if anybody has a very sensible and reasonable explanation as to why these rules are ignored today, I’d be glad to hear it. And please no “Those are barbaric rules of the old” crap please, ity clearly says that the rules will never change in the Bible.

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe."

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks, all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

In 2004, a British philosophy professor, Antony Flew, who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century concluded that there is a God. At age 81, after decades of insisting that belief is a mistake, concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature.

A typical debate between theists and atheists go something like this:
The atheist side typically presents the position that belief in God is immature, and that God is a provable or disprovable hypothesis for why things are the way they are, which, they argue, can be easily disproved:

[1] Evolution eliminates the need for a creator,
[2] Double blind tests prove that prayer doesn't work,

[3] Psychology has demonstrated that human beings often mistake random pattern for meaningful purpose,

[4] Observation shows that we are an insignificant spot in the midst of a vast chaotic universe,

[5] and the death of a single innocent child makes the belief in a benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient God absurd, or even offensive.


The theist side then responds with arguments to rebut these points:

[1a] The universe is too fine-tuned to be an accident,
[2a] Without a loving God there are no objective standards or source of values,

[3a] The very fact that we can comprehend the workings of physicality with our minds demonstrates the existence of a purposeful creator.

[4a] Insignificant as our portion of the universe, modern science show Earth to be the only provable place with life;

[5a] In all suffering and heartache their is human growth and value, and God's Wisdom is far superior to human greed and selfish desires for comfort and ease;

Atheists then counter that there is absolutely no objective, quantifiable proof that God exists, that religion is ignorant of, uninterested in or dismissive of modern science, and that to believe in something without proof is inherently dangerous, especially when one thinks that he is acting on divine authority. The theist responds, and so on.


The debate about the existence of God hits a brick wall because there is an essential misunderstanding about the nature of God: None of the proofs that atheists are looking for, or any counter argument from the theists, would be adequate proof.

In the Peubla debate, Michael Shermer said that he'd find convincing proof, "if you could have God grow new limbs on amputees from the Iraq war, by Christian soldiers, praying for them to be healed. This has not happened even once. Apparently God can not do even what amphibians can do."

But even if this did happen, it would not prove to the atheists the existence of God, but they would instead say this proves that there is some kind of regenerative force or energy that responds to the right kind of conscious thought.

The truth is that nothing, absolutely nothing can prove the existence of God. Its either you believe or you don't. However, if all wise, all knowing scientist did not write the bible and God's existence is false, how did we come by religion, bible and the 'tales'? Who wrote the bible? What force holds the universe? What happens when we die? and finally, if you claim that there is no God, how do you explain your existence? Evolution? I sure know I didn't evolve from a freaking monkey or some primitive mammal,

logica:

That's where you are wrong, and I am not surprised you didn't even notice. You would have lost a lot - spending your whole life believing in fairy tales is as if you never existed in the real world but rather in the realms of fantasy; like Alice in Wonderland. Say hello to the Mad Hatter.

What exactly is the "a lot" that i would have lost? The ability to live in sin without the need for moral or spiritual restraint? Any tangible thing you think i would miss?

Luxzy:

At age 81, after decades of insisting that belief is a mistake, concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature.

Senility or did he see God? Why one is more realistic?

Luxzy:

Who wrote the bible? What force holds the universe? What happens when we die? and finally, if you claim that there is no God, how do you explain your existence? Evolution? I sure know I didn't evolve from a freaking monkey or some primitive mammal,

Watching educative channels will answer all your questions in one. If you don't know who the authors of the Bible were (as there were many - for one several of the Old Testament chapters were written by Moses for instance), then you might as well just keep quiet.

davidylan:

What exactly is the "a lot" that i would have lost? The ability to live in sin without the need for moral or spiritual restraint? Any tangible thing you think i would miss?

I will consider losing the real essence of life as a total loss. "Living in sin" is a phrase I find amusing though. I am not a saint, but I have found myself more honest and living a cleaner life than quite a number of church-going, Bible-thumping "believers". But indeed I have no shackles, and I live without fear. If you really want to know how much you would lose I can only use an analogy - it's like a moth's pupa dying within its cocoon before it could metamorphose, and then thinking it had a good life. The adult moth can only shake its head in sympathy.

Jesus died for your sin! Yeah right, he was crucified mercilessly. Like every forerunner who has come forth to spread morality. (And God who is supposed to know the future and the past was so upset with what we did to his son, that Jesus has to utter the now famous "Father forgive them for they know no what they do"). Now they say he died for our sins. You mention any person in history that has come to preach the way of simpliciy that hasnt been asasinated or killed. Ghandi shot, Muhamed Killed, Martin luther king shot, John the baptist-beheaded. The list goes on and on and on till the break of dawn *Bursts into Rap song*

logica:

I will consider losing the real essence of life as a total loss. "Living in sin" is a phrase I find amusing though. I am not a saint, but I have found myself more honest and living a cleaner life than quite a number of church-going, Bible-thumping "believers". But indeed I have no shackles, and I live without fear. It's like a moth's pupa dying within its cocoon before it could metamorphose, and then thinking it had a good life. The adult moth can only shake its head in sympathy.

be specific, what is this "real essence of life"?

davidylan:

be specific, what is this "real essence of life"?

If you read my whole post and you didn't get it, I can't help you.

logica:

If you read my whole post and you didn't get it, I can't help you.

Again you're simply being deceptive, more atheistic games. too many big words that in the end mean nothing.
What exactly is the "essence of life"? What does it mean? Living without "shackles" to what exactly? What does the pupa stand to lose by dying earlier? The right to Be Intimate, marry, have kids, drink beer, enjoy sundays off?

you live without shackles so do i, you live without fear so do i . . .

What exactly is this "essence of life"? It is NOT in your post.

davidylan:

too many big words that in the end mean nothing.

I am sorry if my English proved too difficult for you to grasp. I am in no way being grandiloquent.

davidylan:

Living without "shackles" to what exactly? What does the pupa stand to lose by dying earlier?

OK I will help you a bit. When you are shackled by ignorance, things are not easy to grasp anyway. So now you know what shackles I speak of. The same shackles that make some spend the better part of their lives shouting "Halleluyah" when they should be making good use of that time to help humanity progress. I don't live in fear while your WHOLE life is a mass of fear - which is actually the crucible in which your faith simmers. And you ask me what shackles? Ask me again. What does the pupa stand to lose by dying earlier? Jezuz! No wonder you don't get it!

Who ever invented religion should be credited with being the biggest conman that ever lived. Still beats me how he managed to con so many people.

logica:

I am sorry if my English proved too difficult for you to grasp. I am in no way being grandiloquent.

The use of highfalutin words doesnt help the discussion. Too many atheists couching their empty rhetoric with flowery words.

logica:

OK I will help you a bit. When you are shackled by ignorance, thinks are not easy to grasp anyway. So now you know what shackles I speak of. The same shackles that make some spend the better part of their lives shouting "Halleluyah" when they should be making good use of that time to help humanity progress. What does the pupa stand to lose by dying earlier? Jezuz! No wonder you don't get it!

1. How do you know i am "shackled by ignorance"? Ignorance of what? How does that "ignorance" affect me? Does that "ignorance" prevent me from having kids, a great job, a good house, perhaps a nice azure boat for leisure maybe, great car . . .? Does that "ignorance" prevent me from socializing with friends, enjoying movies, enjoying s[i]e[/i]x or taking camping or fishing trips?
Exactly what is this "ignorance" that you talk about?

2. So i am "bound" because i take 2 hrs out of 24 hrs x 7 days to pray in church VOLUNTARILY? I am in chains because i choose to spend a few mins of my time daily to pray and thank God for life? So because i have perhaps only 23 hrs and 30 mins in a day (i have to shout hallelujah), i am unable to help humanity progress?
And you who is quite free of this need to shout hallelujah have moved humanity forward how many feet?

This post is a complete joke.  

davidylan:

And you who is quite free of this need to shout hallelujah have moved humanity forward how many feet?

Definitely more than you, and a few of your friends added. But how will you know?

logica:

Definitely more than you, and a few of your friends added. But how will you know?

But you dont know do you? You're just guessing right? Grasping desperately for straws aye? What did your philosophy teacher tell you about making assumptions you have no proof of?

davidylan:

1. How do you know i am "shackled by ignorance"? Ignorance of what? How does that "ignorance" affect me?

The ignorance is affecting you so badly right now, as it's the worst kind - I call it self-assured ignorance. I think "eyes wide shut" captures it better if oxymorons appeal to you.

davidylan:

But you dont know do you? You're just guessing right?

Trust me I know for sure. You are just a kid having fun. Real issues are being discussed here.

logica:

The ignorance is affecting you so badly right now, as it's the worst kind - I call it self-assured ignorance. I think "eyes wide shut" captures it better if oxymoron appeal to you.

ok now you're just making things up now are we?  
How do you even know i am a serious christian who reads his bible or prays? you're not sure now are you? I could just be an agnostic who cares little for faith and never attends church? But you dont know that right? you're just assuming i'm "ignorant" because i cant see the illogic in your increasingly incoherent viewpoint?

What "ignorance" are you talking about? How is it "affecting me badly"? Ignorance prevents you from writing anything more than one-liners? I'm lost here . . . are you even responding to the thread anymore? Are you increasingly looking like a drowning rat desperately grasping at straws to stay afloat?

I think you'll do well to read your own signature carefully.

logica:

Trust me I know for sure. You are just a kid having fun. Real issues are being discussed here.

By "real issues" you mean exactly what?  
Making incoherent logical fallacies?

logica:

I think you'll do well to read your own signature carefully.

Ok you can no longer defend your incoherence so its on to ad hominems? typical atheist game.

davidylan:

logical fallacies?

They call that tautology.

davidylan:

Ok you can no longer defend your incoherence so its on to ad hominems? typical atheist game. 

LOL. Anybody following this thread knows who the incoherent one is. Try as you may in obfuscation it doesn't work here. You went from talking in definite terms to hypothesizing - "what if I am an agnostic just fooling around".

logica:

They call that tautology.

We're left with nitpicking grammar now? typical atheist game. UnCloth their flowery language and its suddenly obvious that the emperor has no clothes.

davidylan:

We're left with nitpicking grammar now?

I wouldn't expect you to know the difference between grammar and logic. From the logic of the sentence, a pointer to the person forming them emerges.

logica:

LOL. Anybody following this thread knows who is incoherent one is. Try as you may in obfuscation it doesn't work here. You went from talking in definite terms to hypothesizing - "what if I am an agnostic just fooling around".

That's not the issue my dear . . . the issue is your own wrong assumptions and inability to answer a straight question.

logica:

I wouldn't expect you to know the difference grammar and logic. From the logic of the sentence, a pointer to the person forming them emerges.

Oh dear . . . the typical atheist game. Obfuscate, equivocate and when that doesnt work . . . just use ad hominems.
Mazaje, chrisbenogor, evil brain . . . and the list goes on and on and on . . . all one and the same. Same tactic, same misplaced sense of importance, same fruitless game.

davidylan:

Oh dear . . . the typical atheist game.

And guess what; I am agnostic, not atheistic. Who's the joke on now?

logica:

And guess what; I am agnostic, not atheistic. Who's the joke on now?

Blind as a bat, thick as a tree. Read back, at no point have i discussed anything that has to do with you or your beliefs. I have only been responding to YOUR own claims. So why would the joke be on me? what joke?

davidylan:

Blind as a bat, thick as a tree. Read back, at no point have i discussed anything that has to do with you or your beliefs. I have only been responding to YOUR own claims. So why would the joke be on me? what joke? 

You are obviously a standard issue mo.ron. Not less than 3 times did you refer to my "atheist tricks" (when I am not atheistic but agnostic). And then turned around and accused me of making assumptions. Once again, who's the joke on now? They really should start a "Joker of the day/week" award. You should be the 1st recipient.

logica:

You are obviously a standard issue mo.ron. Not less than 3 times did you refer to my "atheist tricks" (when I am not atheistic but agnostic). And then turned around and accused me of making assumptions. Once again, who's the joke on now? They really should start a "Joker of the day/week" award. You should be the 1st recipient.

Agnostic - an atheist with no courage in his convictions.
What's the diff? One says there must be no God, the other says i'm not sure but everyone else who believes in God must be senile.

Truly the mark of the utterly confused.