do_me:

The issue of instant fine for a traffic offence is done all over the world. In Europe and North America you are issued a ticket and then asked to pay a fine.When this happen you have two options,
1) You either pay up or
2) You refuse to pay and the issuing authority will then they take you go to court for traffic violation.
. . .

   
   
You had it right until you confused yourself with your “instant fine” proposition. There is no such thing as an “instant fine” in the US.

When you are given a citation for traffic violation in the US, the citation is equivalent to being booked in a police station and released on your own recognizance. It is also a notice that a summons will be issued for you to appear in court to defend yourself against the traffic-violation charge. But a citation is never an “instant” fine. Only a court can impose a fine. It just so happens that traffic violations are minor misdemeanors for which most jurisdictions across the US have a set schedule of monetary fines. The fixed amount you see on the summons is there for judicial expediency. It is the equivalent of a plea bargain offer, but it is not an instant fine.

After you're given the citation, a summons to appear in court is sent to you by mail. That summons is the official charge of traffic violation, which has been recorded in court, and a date is set for you to defend yourself before the court. If you decide that your time in lost wages or productivity is worth a lot more than the court appearance will cost you, or you simply don't want to be bothered with a court appearance, you pay the fine. This is what lawyers call intrinsic admission of guilt. By paying the fine and waiving your right to defend yourself in court, you are essentially pleading guilty as charged before a court and accepting the attendant punishment. But in most jurisdictions across the US, the guilty plea also earns you a detrimental notation on your driving record, which your auto insurance company will seize as an opportunity to increase your premium.

Pifa:

You had it right until you confused yourself with your “instant fine” proposition. There is no such thing as an “instant fine” in the US.

It's quite possible some counties in the US have this provision, or I was a target of racial discrimination. I never really confirmed, but I was pulled over in a county in Wisconsin. I was issued a ticket and the officer asked me to pay on the spot. I found this odd even though I knew I was guilty, but I didn't even have enough cash on me. He told me I could pay with my credit/debit card and told me I had to either pay or follow him to the station. I can't quite recall whether the payment didn't go through or something but he eventually let me go with the ticket. I simply didn't bother to find out if what he did was permitted but I simply decided it might have more to do with the fact that my car was not registered in Wisconsin than my race. But I don't think it was because I was way above the speed limit (since I wasn't) because in some counties/states you get arrested if you are way above the speed limit.

logica:

It's quite possible some counties in the US have this provision, or I was a target of racial discrimination. I never really confirmed, but I was pulled over in a county in Wisconsin. I was issued a ticket and the officer asked me to pay on the spot. I found this odd even though I knew I was guilty, but I didn't even have enough cash on me. He told me I could pay with my credit/debit card and told me I had to either pay or follow him to the station. I can't quite recall whether the payment didn't go through or something but he eventually let me go with the ticket. I simply didn't bother to find out if what he did was permitted but I simply decided it might have more to do with the fact that my car was not registered in Wisconsin than my race. But I don't think it was because I was way above the speed limit (since I wasn't) because in some counties/states you get arrested if you are way above the speed limit.

 

If that’s true, then it might have violated your

1) Fourth Amendment rights – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
2) Fifth Amendment right - No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
3) Sixth Amendment right– Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel.
 
Municipalities might seize property without due process because they know they are unlikely to be challenged in court. Municipalities can levy a fine for violating an ordinance, but the accused also has the right to challenge that fine in court, or through the body that is granted the power to levy the fine. Usually, people pay these types of fines because it is more expedient for them to do so than fight it in court. That's what municipalities count on.

Take for example the property-forfeiture law some municipalities have against men who are caught patronizing pros.titutes. Some towns will confiscate an offender’s automobile without so much as a court proceeding. But how many patrons of pros.titutes will challenge such seizure in court? In this case, some municipalities count on shame to dissuade the alleged offender from challenging the forfeiture law (i.e. conviction without trial) in court.

The reason I didn't probe further was the fact that he eventually let me go with the ticket. If I had been arrested and locked up, or the payment on my card had gone through, then you bet I would have taken him up in court.

do_me
Posts: 66

Offline

Re: Court Nullifies LASTMA Powers To Impose Fine On Offenders
« #18 on: Yesterday at 05:04:43 PM »
The issue of instant fine for a traffic offence is done all over the world. In Europe and North America you are issued a ticket and then asked to pay a fine.When this happen you have two options,
1) You either pay up or
2) You refuse to pay and the issuing authority will then they take you go to court for traffic violation.
When Road safety(FRSC) started in the early 90s, when they issue you a ticket they tell u that if you refuse to pay u can have your day in court(I don't know if they still do this).
Likewise LASTMA cannot force you to pay or impound your car indefinitely.
The mistake they made with this driver in question is that they allowed him to take them to court first when it is supposed to be the other way round. So the case in question is not that of traffic violation but illegal imposition of fine. It is now left for you either to pay quietly or go through the court process(length of time and cost).

I hate it when people try to TWIST reality to create support for that which should not be. "Instant fines" as you call them are not charged by LASTMA -like forces in the countries you pretend they exist in. Those fines are actually charged by police cops and the numbers are not made up at the spot.

logica:

The reason I didn't probe further was the fact that he eventually let me go with the ticket. If I had been arrested and locked up, or the payment on my card had gone through, then you bet I would have taken him up in court.

   
   
   
The fact that he didn't press the on-scene payment of fine would suggest to me that his earlier request for payment was extrajudicial. Did you check with the District Attorney's office if it was legal for policeman to demand payment on the spot for the misdemeanor you allegedly committed?

CNN ran a story of a small town in Texas where this sort of criminal activity by the police happens. The victims were black and Hispanic and, ironically, the Sheriff's Deputy (or policeman) who was fing.ered as the primary extortionist is a black man. Moreover, it seems the town's attorney and some city officials were in on this activity, too. The victims have filed a civil suit against the county and I believe that the Texas AG’s office is also investigating the case.

Here is the link to the story:
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-05/justice/texas.police.seizures_1_police-officer-highway-robbery-personal-property?_s=PM:CRIME
There was a video report of the story, but I couldn't find it.

I am surprise nobody seems to own up to the fact that fees charged 4 traffic violation in lagos is part of LASG effort to generate internal revenue. The LASTMA guys know this and just try to get a fair share of the Internally Generated Revenue. Simple!!!! I stand to be proven wrong. I was a victim and i had to cough out N40,000 last year at their office in ojodu after i refused to settle lastma on the spot.

Now, can others seek redress - I mean REFUND? I foresee avalanche of petitions!

prefers555:

I am surprise nobody seems to own up to the fact that fees charged 4 traffic violation in lagos is part of LASG effort to generate internal revenue. The LASTMA guys know this and just try to get a fair share of the Internally Generated Revenue. Simple!!!! I stand to be proven wrong. I was a victim and i had to cough out N40,000 last year at their office in ojodu after i refused to settle lastma on the spot.

That's very true but it doesn't mean that the lastma people are fair in carrying out their duties. Some of them are good but most of them use intimidation of sorts. , and the bad part is, it's their word against yours. Once they have their people around, or once you ask what your offence is, their 'authority' comes in and they decide to intimidate you just for extortion purposes or to show you they have power. This is a better deal. But more importantly, the rules have to be very clear and stated so people know when they break them.

LASTMA can fine traffic offenders, Fashola insists



September 23, 2011

News

By OLASUNKANMI AKONI, DANIEL ETEGHE & MONSUR OLOWOOPEJO
IKEJA- Following the judgment of Justice Okon Abang of a Federal High Court in Lagos on Tuesday, barring Lagos State Traffic Management Authority, LASTMA, from imposing fines on traffic offenders, Lagos State Governor, Mr Babatunde  Fashola, Thursday, said the state has the residual authority to make legislation on municipal issues that fall within the ambit of the state.

Meanwhile, the state said it will appeal the judgment. State Attorney-General and Commissioner for Justice, Mr. Ade Ipaye, said in Lagos that: “We are appealing the judgment immediately. Lagos State, Federal Government and other jurisdictions have laws that validly impose fines in the same way as LASTMA law, so we are certainly not satisfied with the judgment.”

Fashola had said, “I have not read the judgment and the only information I have about the judgment is from the press, clearly, that is not a legal interpretation of the judgment. Road traffic is a municipal matter in which the state government clearly has the residual authority to make legislation.”

“Of course, you will understand that all over the world, there is usually provision for either the summary payment of crime or the option of a trial and I think this is what exists really. If you do not want to go on trial, you can say you want to pay a fine and I think that is the ambit of which we have been operating and those who insist on being taken to court, obviously are being taken to court.”

He called on Lagosians not to be in a hurry to condemn LASTMA, adding that the agency could be subjected to innovations.

According to Fashola, “Whether we like it or not, until a foreseeable future, LASTMA is a local solution to a unique traffic problem. We have used a local challenge to create an opportunity for almost 5,000 people who are working, showing dignity of labour, staying in the sun and the rain working for all of us.

“So, let not be in a hurry to challenge LASTMA. I don’t think that is what we need, what we need is to keep the model, sustain and develop it. If it has rough edges, we trim it off and LASTMA like every innovation of man is always subject to improvement, re-modification and I think that is the collectiveness that is important for us to carry along now. The condemnation of the agency, I don’t think will take us there.”

Also, reacting to the judgment, Commissioner for Information and Strategy, Mr. Aderemi Ibirogba, said a majority of residents misconstrued the judgment by condemning the legitimacy of LASTMA.

Ibirogba said: “A majority of the public do not know the technicality of the law. The judgment is not an indictment on LASTMA as been peddled around. It has not incapacitated LASTMA in any way.

“That judgment has not said LASTMA is illegal. What the judgment is saying is that fines for any traffic offenders in the state will be decided in the law court. The law does not say LASTMA does not have the right to control traffic in the state. It’s unfortunate that the public has not come to accept LASTMA as a responsible agency.

“It is important to note that LASTMA still reserve some power as long as Lagos traffic management and control is concerned,” he added.

not only lastma.KAI is still there!!!!!!!!!

thats good. those lastmas are taking lagos citizen as fools. i was wondering if they were a kind of judicially order that arrest offenders & take judgement on them without allowing them have their own say. thanks to the man that sued them. they can arrest but not to judge let d court decide if they are guilty or court & also decide the fine they should pay for it.

They are too crude in there operation and no human feeling.

Omooba77:

LASTMA can fine traffic offenders, Fashola insists



September 23, 2011

News

By OLASUNKANMI AKONI, DANIEL ETEGHE & MONSUR OLOWOOPEJO
IKEJA- Following the judgment of Justice Okon Abang of a Federal High Court in Lagos on Tuesday, barring Lagos State Traffic Management Authority, LASTMA, from imposing fines on traffic offenders, Lagos State Governor, Mr Babatunde  Fashola, Thursday, said the state has the residual authority to make legislation on municipal issues that fall within the ambit of the state.

Meanwhile, the state said it will appeal the judgment. State Attorney-General and Commissioner for Justice, Mr. Ade Ipaye, said in Lagos that: “We are appealing the judgment immediately. Lagos State, Federal Government and other jurisdictions have laws that validly impose fines in the same way as LASTMA law, so we are certainly not satisfied with the judgment.”

Fashola had said, “I have not read the judgment and the only information I have about the judgment is from the press, clearly, that is not a legal interpretation of the judgment. Road traffic is a municipal matter in which the state government clearly has the residual authority to make legislation.”

“Of course, you will understand that all over the world, there is usually provision for either the summary payment of crime or the option of a trial and I think this is what exists really. If you do not want to go on trial, you can say you want to pay a fine and I think that is the ambit of which we have been operating and those who insist on being taken to court, obviously are being taken to court.”

He called on Lagosians not to be in a hurry to condemn LASTMA, adding that the agency could be subjected to innovations.

According to Fashola, “Whether we like it or not, until a foreseeable future, LASTMA is a local solution to a unique traffic problem. We have used a local challenge to create an opportunity for almost 5,000 people who are working, showing dignity of labour, staying in the sun and the rain working for all of us.

“So, let not be in a hurry to challenge LASTMA. I don’t think that is what we need, what we need is to keep the model, sustain and develop it. If it has rough edges, we trim it off and LASTMA like every innovation of man is always subject to improvement, re-modification and I think that is the collectiveness that is important for us to carry along now. The condemnation of the agency, I don’t think will take us there.”

Also, reacting to the judgment, Commissioner for Information and Strategy, Mr. Aderemi Ibirogba, said a majority of residents misconstrued the judgment by condemning the legitimacy of LASTMA.

Ibirogba said: “A majority of the public do not know the technicality of the law. The judgment is not an indictment on LASTMA as been peddled around. It has not incapacitated LASTMA in any way.

“That judgment has not said LASTMA is illegal. What the judgment is saying is that fines for any traffic offenders in the state will be decided in the law court. The law does not say LASTMA does not have the right to control traffic in the state. It’s unfortunate that the public has not come to accept LASTMA as a responsible agency.

“It is important to note that LASTMA still reserve some power as long as Lagos traffic management and control is concerned,” he added.

Gov Fashola has spoken

“So, let not be in a hurry to challenge LASTMA. I don’t think that is what we need, what we need is to keep the model, sustain and develop it. If it has rough edges, we trim it off and LASTMA like every innovation of man is always subject to improvement, re-modification and I think that is the collectiveness that is important for us to carry along now. The condemnation of the agency, I don’t think will take us there.”

Please tell us what you have done or doing or even you will do to achieve the highlighted. I suggest you get rid of the secondary school drop outs among them, recruit graduates and pay them go salaries so they could get closer to say a road safety agents.

Please tell us what you have done or doing or even you will do to achieve the highlighted. I suggest you get rid of the secondary school drop outs among them, recruit graduates and pay them

---

good salaries so they could get closer to say a road safety agents.

The question I hve always asked is that,are the LASTMA set up as punitive or corrective? Most of the things they destroy lives on are minor. I don't take one way,neither do I condone it,I hve seen LASTMA taken one way,two of them on an Okada without helmet. I see them dragging people from there car. The day I saw one tout I used to know in Oyingbo among them, since that day, I see it as organisation to pay party thugs.

I remembered being fined 7000 for using a drivers licence issued in ogun state. . .Well a policeman once told me that having a dollar note in my wallet is illegal

BRF is a SAN and he is given backing to illegality.

Although it is bad to break traffic rules but the fact still remains that LASTMA have taken too much laws into their hands.

Omooba77:

BRF is a SAN and he is given backing to illegality.

 
 
The governor has done no such thing! He has simply stated that the state of Lagos has a residual authority (granted by the Nigerian Constitution or the Constitution of the State of Lagos) to make laws. On that basis, he is on legal terra firma.

   
Question for you guys: Do states in Nigeria have their own constitutions or they are governed only by the Nigerian Constitution?

Nigeria is a Federal republic and Nigeria constitution is superior sir

Fashola said, LASTMA will continue to issue fines? I laugh in Swahili, I don't know about Nigeria but anyone who goes against a "Federal Judge" who is sworn in according to The Constitution, is in for a hot soup. Fash should request a stay on his decision to give him enough time to get an appeal BUT violating a federal judges order is just asking for trouble. I guess Fed Judge will invoke hi power to upon the law enforcement which will not look well for Fashola.

   
   

Omooba77:

Nigeria is a Federal republic and Nigeria constitution is superior sir

Yeah it's superior only but the Constitution gives right to states as well to make their own laws. Powers not delegated by the Constitution to the FG is reserved to the states and the people and this case is a municipal case. So states have their own right by the Nigerian Constitution to have theirs, so long it does NOT conflict with the Nigerian Constitution.

Omooba77:

Nigeria is a Federal republic and Nigeria constitution is superior sir

 
 
What I read from your post is that states in Nigeria do not have their own Constitutions but have the constitutional authority to make statutory laws and those statutory laws are subordinate to the Nigerian Constitution.

Fair enough.

Most people has not grasp the fact that a court ruling is subject to appeal. How do we expect LASTMA operatives to behave when the behaviours ( actions) of most of us is not different from an area boy !. You need to see or review our attitude on the road, even the seemingly educated and well dressed individuals amongst us and you'll wonder!.
An average Nigerian and indeed Lagos driver or rider is lawless, inconsiderate and will only respect force. You need to seehow someone will abuse your generations or blar the horns because you delayed 5 seconds befoe moving in a hold up or "go slow". Worst still, someone is less than 10meters behind you and the street lights are on and hen has is full halogen ligts on into your face . Just to intimidate you to leave the road to alllow him .

This kind of behaviour and attitude in my own opinion cannot be cutailed or brought to book by a courteuos , smiling, meek looking , LASTMA operative but someone who can speak and act in the language we all understand . Force, intimidation etc. .

I cannot imagine any of the morbid accusers and cursers (my own engrish ) showing up in court when given a ticket or even paying the fines (officialy) for their ofences but will rather rain curses,abuses and critisize on Nl. This not to say that the LASTMA operatives are in all cases correct. ut in all , we need to develop a mutual respect for self,the law, the State Govt irespective of our state of origin or party afliations. Regard those guys too and you'll definitely get your deserved respect. Chikena.

@Kdular,thanks sir for your lecture. The truth is that LASTMA needs to be refined, they are trying but the bad eggs among them are too many to make any positive impacts. If you read the trend 80% of the post are in the negative. If anyone resist address,that is why the e-registration is there,take the pix as the law stipulate not dragging steering. Be truthful to yourself sir,majority of what LASTMA makes go to individual pockets. Just like KAI,most of the staff are after personal gain. I heard the story of the KAI that was injured at Yaba. So human face should be put into their activities,I agreed most Lagosians are too impatient. But majority of the lawless drivers are danfo and security personel that LASTMA doesn't arrest. Each day I see danfo taking BRT lanes are Ikorodu road,in the full glare of LASTMA.

I wish the man whose vehicle was fined had suscribed to Allied Rescue Services-ARS. Their mobile technicians would have attended to the car, including towing ( if nessecary), and found him alternative transport if need be. The number to call for more info is 0810 0606 316.