Genesis 18:16-33

16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way.

17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?

18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.

19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous

21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.

23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it?

25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes,

28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

1. Does God have a conscience?

2. Couldn't God have simply killed the bad people of Sodom and Gomorrah without killing the innocent people who also lived in these cities?

3. Did God really need Abraham to tell him killing innocent people is UNLIKE God?

4. Without Abraham's intervention, God would have killed innocent people?

5. God needed Abraham to tell him atleast ten innocent people could have been living in the city of Sodom? Shouldn't he know all?

Humans shouldn't need to teach God a lesson on Justice and Mortality...

He is GOD.... Simple...

He decides whatever He wants...

All those things were written for a reason.

There's something called 'The counsel of God'.
It's not a commonly preached topic but it's a fact.
The meaning is that, God surrounds entities (heavenly or earthly), to make decisions, or to listen to how He's making decisions.

"Let us make man in our own image", stuff like that...

God reveals His plans to His people (Abraham in this case).

By the way this also shows you that God has a character and can 'gist', in summary, He's not that boring dictator that people paint Him to be.

God destroyed the whole world in the days of Noah and spared the righteous (Noah and family), without listening to man's advice.

PlayerMeji:
He is GOD.... Simple...

He decides whatever He wants...

including murder?

Sounds like he's s dictator.

preciousee17:
All those things were written for a reason.

There's something called 'The counsel of God'.
It's not a commonly preached topic but it's a fact.
The meaning is that, God surrounds entities (heavenly or earthly), to make decisions, or to listen to how He's making decisions.

"Let us make man in our own image", stuff like that...

God reveals His plans to His people (Abraham in this case).

By the way this also shows you that God has a character and can 'gist', in summary, He's not that boring dictator that people paint Him to be.

God destroyed the whole world in the days of Noah and spared the righteous (Noah and family), without listening to man's advice.

In other words, God sometimes needs someone to preach common sense to him.

God revealed his plans to Abraham who had to point out how flawed it was...

Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it?

25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

Yes, God destroyed the world, including the innocent and children. Too bad he didn't ask for advice, he acted like true dictator.

Cybertroll:
In other words, God sometimes needs someone to preach common sense to him.

God revealed his plans to Abraham who had to point out how flawed it was...


Yes, God destroyed the world, including the innocent and children. Too bad he didn't ask for advice, he acted like true dictator.

Rest bro
We all need to rest.

Cybertroll:

Humans shouldn't need to teach God a lesson on Justice and Mortality...

Cybertroll:
including murder?
Sounds like he's s dictator.

When reading a book try to see matters from the viewpoints of it's Author, according to the Bible the three angels were going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah {Genesis 18:2} but the one speaking with Abraham is Jesus in his prehuman life as a spirit son of God he always represent God anytime God's presence is needed. READ Exodus 13:21 compare to 14:19
There are angels given the power to see all the things happening on the surface of the earth {Ezekiel 10:12} they're the ones reporting the events happening to God so God Himself is not seeing it directly because most of the things happening after mankind's fall in the garden of Eden saddens Him a lot {Genesis 6:6} and He can't continue watching such bad things! Habakkuk 1:13
So Jesus who is his father's image {Colossians 1:15} was sent to lead the two destructive angels to verify the reports before destroying the two cities that's why you read later that only two angels (not three) were noticed in the cities {Genesis 19:1} because Jesus has dematerialized his own visible body to see how the two angels will be treated by the inhabitants of the city.

As for Lot and his family they were rescued not because of Abraham's intervention because Abraham's bargain ended at 10 persons thinking that Lot and his household should be up to ten in number and since they're both faithful men Lot will prove to be different.
So it was Lot's hospitality towards the angels that saved him and his daughters! Hebrews 13:2

Cybertroll:



Genesis 18:16-33.

Did you not get that except Lot, there was no innocent one, even when Abe thought that there should at least be
10 innocents there but alas there was only Lot?

Clearly, God was waiting for Abe to catch up!

Cybertroll:
1. Does God have a conscience?

2. Couldn't God have simply killed the bad people of Sodom and Gomorrah without killing the innocent people who also lived in these cities?

3. Did God really need Abraham to tell him killing innocent people is UNLIKE God?

4. Without Abraham's intervention, God would have killed innocent people?

5. God needed Abraham to tell him atleast ten innocent people could have been living in the city of Sodom? Shouldn't he know all?

Abraham stopped at 10 people and God promised him that if He sees 10 righteous people, He would spare. God didn't see 10 righteous people, He saw 4, yet He saved them. If Abraham had not prayed, God would still have saved them. Abraham didn't pray for 4, he prayed for 10 but God saved 4.