true2god: Gd morning kokolete007, i am not a deeperlife member and not compuksry to be to understand the honest bible truth. As a matter of fact i studied, before, with one or two JW friends before deciding to halt it. Before JW, the church in general knew that we are in the 'last days' and had always being anticipating the comin of the lord (act 2). But non did ever fix a particular date or use any unreliable chronology to to do mathematics of 'his presence' (a term used only after series of failed predictions). We understand ourselves here better cos we r xtains, if u fix a date of christ's presence to a non-xtain that neva come to pass for once u only bring xtainity into disrepute and serios questioning. The other issues u guys brought up: trinity\hell\heaven\immortality of the soul etc do not fall within the confine of this discussion so no need to derail frm the issue at hand. U can as well start a thread on those topics for us to discuss with biblical refereces. Anyway for once im not a beliver in purgatory. And remember dat over 90% of ur new light had at one time or the other, being propagated by 'seventh day adventist' so its never new and they have discarded a whole lot of dem. I am happy u guys hav, at least for once, admitted that its not ok to fix any 'prophetic date' but y is the 1914 'trade mark' not jettisoned just as the other dates had been dropped. Is it not the same 'research' dat gav room for 1914 dat gave room for other dates that had been assumed 'mistakes'? I knw u might be waiting for official confirmation frm the GB on dis date before u take ur decision since they r the ones that tell u wat to believe as bible truth and wat not to accept. Im 100% sure dat if the next edition of watchtower nullifies 1914 u will follow suit. Dis does not give room for independent thinkin since all JW align their beliefs only on wat the GB say through the watchtower magazine. Dnt accuse me of puttin so much emphasy on JW failed prediction cos thats wat the thread is all about.

kokolet007: I believe God himself wil make d truth knwn to U! As I said d other time a just taking my time to study the bible wif them and I attend der xtians meeting there is nothing like an embargo on sumtin,even if an elder summon sumone for an interrogation it is being done with respect nd reasoning frm the scripture.....let me correct ur perception abt d GB! Der is no way dey wil be a sheep without shepherd, the GB are and d elders are the shepherd helpin the congregation of God to move in one accord! Since they share the same bible truth and opinion,sumone has to be a Shepard inorder tO help others not to b confuse and A̶̲̥̅♏ sure u knw ƌı̣̣̣z̶̲̥̅̊ is being done everywhere in d Christiandom,ADEBOYE preach nd all listen without question nd also d oda MOG,d only different is d issue of magazine which u knw odas publish their own books too eg chris oyakliome,oyedepo and many more which is being use by der member daily! Dos MOG preach in their platom and nobody question dem ß̍̍̊ůh̶̲̥̅̊ d GB give room for interrOgation and reasoning togeda frm the scripture and I dnt tink there is a way they prophecies on anytin d̶̲̥̅̊ά̲̣̣̣̥t the source wasn't frm the bible!

As a matter of fact i studied, before, with one or two JW friends before deciding to halt it. Before JW, the church in general knew that we are in the 'last days' and had always being anticipating the comin of the lord (act 2).

But non did ever fix a particular date or use any unreliable chronology to to do mathematics of 'his presence' (a term used only after series of failed predictions).

We understand ourselves here better cos we r xtains, if u fix a date of christ's presence to a non-xtain that neva come to pass for once u only bring xtainity into disrepute and serios questioning.

true2god: Tanks for ur response. If im correct the term christendom u assume here are all other xtain denominations aside frm JW cos JW is not part of the chritendom and i stand to be corrected here. Ok, u made mention of shepherds in the 'christendom'. They are leaders and can take responsibilities and criticism anytime they go wrong on xtain principles or teachings. At least those pple u mentioned do not exist in secrecy: they are public figures. Even non xtains knw dem. But the pple that are consist of the JW GB are anonymous, i stand to be corrected if im wrong by u mentioning their names. At least biblical prophets, teachers, apostles, even rabbis have their names mentioned in the bible and are well knwn bible characters. Even today's men of God are public figures. They are knwn, there lifestyles are predictable, they are criticised, even in the media, anytime they deviate. This gives room for checks and balances for pple in leadership. But thats not the case for JW GB. U cant question their doctrinal authority or else u will be shunned or disfellowship. Watever they say must be acepted hook, line and sinker without verification. Afterall they are the 'earthly mediators' between JW members and Jehohah. Besides, thats y u cant hold anyone responsible for the new and the old light stuff cos the authors are mask in secresy. Anyway the issue here is that if other yrs that were predited had been nullifies as 'errors', why is 1914 still revered? That my simple question.

truthislight:
You dont even know what the bible says that is why you want to change God's plans. A calculation that start and ends in 1914 from the bible you want it change?

Who did the calcualation? Who sanctioned the calculation? Who has the right to give another bogus date? Who has the right to nullify the date? The ansa is the JW GB.

true2god: Ok keep soundin vry ridiculous. Who did the calcualation? Who sanctioned the calculation? Who has the right to give another bogus date? Who has the right to nullify the date? The ansa is the JW GB. U r defending wat u hav no right to sanction, contribute to, or do ur own research, except the one tailored for u to acept. Are u telling me that the prediction of 1925 (berth-sarim) can be nullified by the GB as false while the 1914 shuld remain? Or the 1984 and 1994 which had been declarred null and void. If all other dates they forcasted had been declared null and void, wat gives u the impression dat 1914 date is not false? My broda dnt tink like a programmed robort, use ur God-given wisdom.

@barrister, I think for things of the spirit, u don't do physical research and decide, you should ask God for wisdom and let him decide for you.

BARRISTERS: @true2God,

i expect you to insult,ehn, but one thing that you should know is that jws will never succumb to cheap blackmail,

when you say they nullify dates,or bogus dates, and also saying they should own up concorted claims,its just laughable, many suffers from the 'endtime phobia' just hearing that alone can make many to run from pillar to post, but anyway just to remind you, you dont need to agree with the jws, ok? live your independent life to the full pls. God bless you,thanks.

Who says their teaching isn't false?

The 607 BCE is wrong, that means that the 1914 chronology is baseless.

He believed Armageddon had occured in 1914

He further belived that d end would come in 1925

what about the generation teaching,'idolatry' of jesus etc?

Yet, the board of directors in NY have ones called themselves God's prophet

The holy spirit revelation is always inspired. This can't be said of the teachings of the Watch Tower society.

I feel that it is just a legal entity directed by men.

If u say human being make mistakes, yes its true and globally acceptable.

But non fix dates, eg 1914, as time of 'his presence' cos it all amount to bringin the gospel of christ into ridicule.Mathew 24 gave us an ample sign or event that must occur before the comin of the messiah. The scripture described likely events, natural disasters on a global scale, nations going on war, as a sign to herald his comin. Jesus further said the 'time of my comin knw man knws'.

I dnt tink u r familiar with Berth serim of 1925. Where JW predited the comin to earth of great men of faith which was later proved false (u can prove me wrong).

true2god: With due apology i never meant to insult. I believe we r reasoning together but somehw on a slightly different dimension. Note dat im not blackmailin any1 or organizatn and i dnt tink any of my post is causing an injury to any1. Blackmail, to my understandin, is to fabricate lies against someone. Ok tell me, where in all my post, hav i blackmaild someone or an organization. Some of wat i, and some other contributors, are quotin were actually old and immediate JW publications. Some respondents actually quoted watchtower magazines printed by WTBTS and u call dat blackmail. Evrytin in there is written in black and white. If u say human being make mistakes, yes its true and globally acceptable. If u say the apostles of old really anticipated the comin of the messiah u r correct. But non fix dates, eg 1914, as time of 'his presence' cos it all amount to bringin the gospel of christ into ridicule. Mathew 24 gave us an ample sign or event that must occur before the comin of the messiah. The scripture described likely events, natural disasters on a global scale, nations going on war, as a sign to herald his comin. Jesus further said the 'time of my comin knw man knws'. I dnt tink u r familiar with Berth serim of 1925. Where JW predited the comin to earth of great men of faith which was later proved false (u can prove me wrong). Last yr an american evangelical pastor predited the end of the world and he failed, he shifted the date backward and it failed again. Hw do u see the man? A false prophet or not? Or just a human error? If tomorow someone quoted that man as a false prophet can he accuse any1 for cheap blackmail? Na waooo.

true2god: With due apology i never meant to insult. I believe we r reasoning together but somehw on a slightly different dimension. Note dat im not blackmailin any1 or organizatn and i dnt tink any of my post is causing an injury to any1. Blackmail, to my understandin, is to fabricate lies against someone. Ok tell me, where in all my post, hav i blackmaild someone or an organization. Some of wat i, and some other contributors, are quotin were actually old and immediate JW publications. Some respondents actually quoted watchtower magazines printed by WTBTS and u call dat blackmail. Evrytin in there is written in black and white. If u say human being make mistakes, yes its true and globally acceptable. If u say the apostles of old really anticipated the comin of the messiah u r correct. But non fix dates, eg 1914, as time of 'his presence' cos it all amount to bringin the gospel of christ into ridicule. Mathew 24 gave us an ample sign or event that must occur before the comin of the messiah. The scripture described likely events, natural disasters on a global scale, nations going on war, as a sign to herald his comin. Jesus further said the 'time of my comin knw man knws'. I dnt tink u r familiar with Berth serim of 1925. Where JW predited the comin to earth of great men of faith which was later proved false (u can prove me wrong). Last yr an american evangelical pastor predited the end of the world and he failed, he shifted the date backward and it failed again. Hw do u see the man? A false prophet or not? Or just a human error? If tomorow someone quoted that man as a false prophet can he accuse any1 for cheap blackmail? Na waooo.

truthislight:

yes, that is the difference, between JW and other MOG's

the JW dont give prophesy or fixed a day for the end of the world.

And they never did cus nobody knows.

UnLike the man you refered to, the JW are not like that.

The JW will show you what the bible says from your bible and not from there head.

You have twisted what the JW said on the days you are quoting here.

1914 date is a bible base calculation and if you wish to know meet them when they come to your house which they will surely do and they will show it to you.

On one of the thread on this forum that some one opened "Jehovah's witnesses question and answer board"

the proof for 607BCE was given there and if need be i can copy it here.

1914 is not said to be the date for the end of the world and we all know that no one knows that date,
but the 1914 calculation shows the year that christ Started His rule in heaven when he casted satan out from heaven to the earth, this calculation is not a JW calculation but a bible base calculation.

This calculation can be verified from the JW anytime any day if it is not a bible base calculation, that you dont know about the calculation is not JW fault.

You people are just twisting what JW says as to black mail them.

Who says their teaching isn't false?

The 607 BCE is wrong, that means that the 1914 chronology is baseless.

[b]Can you in your own terms or your own calculation proved that 'the 607 BCE is wrong' not neccesarilly depending on jws calculation which is wrong but your own calculation [/b]that is deemed right to dislodge or counter that of the jws?

Firstly,

He believed Armageddon had started in 1874 and would end in 1914

"… the battle of the great day of God Almighty … The date of the close of that "battle" is definitely marked in Scripture as October 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 January 15 p.23

Howevr the modern day JW say it thıs way:
"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 January 22 p.8

But this is what the leader back then said:
"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

Secondly,

He further believed that the resurrectıon d end would start come in 1925 ( Rutherford said this when he assumed the organisation's presidential position)

"Seventy jubilees of fifty years each would be a total of 3500 years. That period of time beginning 1575 before A.D. 1 of necessity would end in the fall of the year 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then, should we expect to take place? The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have the first favour, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth." Millions Now Living Will Never Die p.88

Please comment on these statements first before we move to the next phase. Were they right or wrong? In other words, did their prophecy fail or not?
More so, is it possible for the revelation of the Holy Spirit to fail?

BARRISTERS: @t-med
We are not speaking latin here, you Mentioned 607 BCE as wrong, below;


Now before you claimed that ones calculation is wrong,courtesy demands that you provide ' a counter claim', that is 'your own calculation independent of the jws' and i clearly state that earlier and you saw it,see it again below;

you have not provided 'your own caculation' and unless you do that their own caculation stands.
all your quotes below did not show any caculation indicting 607 BCE,not even (one)mention of 607BCE,is that how you jump from one thing unsettled to another?,See it yourself now below;



Again, when i say that you should provide 'evidence' what i mean is ( copies or pages of the alledged jehovahs witnesses magazines,either scanned,as a certified true copy} and not the amalgamation of sentences 'in quote' as you can see all your assertions are in 'quotes' and was removed from a body of paragraphs, what you will need to do is supply the full pages of the quoted magazines.

you know that im not yet a full jw, im will not have the time to seach for it, but for substancial evidence to be launched, i need full or scanned copies. before i can comment. im waiting pls

BARRISTERS: @t-med
We are not speaking latin here, you Mentioned 607 BCE as wrong, below;


Now before you claimed that ones calculation is wrong,courtesy demands that you provide ' a counter claim', that is 'your own calculation independent of the jws' and i clearly state that earlier and you saw it,see it again below;

you have not provided 'your own caculation' and unless you do that their own caculation stands.
all your quotes below did not show any caculation indicting 607 BCE,not even (one)mention of 607BCE,is that how you jump from one thing unsettled to another?,See it yourself now below;



Again, when i say that you should provide 'evidence' what i mean is ( copies or pages of the alledged jehovahs witnesses magazines,either scanned,as a certified true copy} and not the amalgamation of sentences 'in quote' as you can see all your assertions are in 'quotes' and was removed from a body of paragraphs, what you will need to do is supply the full pages of the quoted magazines.

you know that im not yet a full jw, im will not have the time to seach for it, but for substancial evidence to be launched, i need full or scanned copies. before i can comment. im waiting pls

ijawkid:

U define it and tell me how d witnesses are false prophets....I aint derailing this post...

I've been seen many posts about this issue but I always smile .....and I know ur all out to deride the witnesses......right??

That's why I told u all that......

Our blueprint is d bible...if our expectation of the fulfillment of a bible prophecy doesn't happen d way we thought it wuld happen,then we go back to the blueprint to fully decipher what went wrong......

Witnesses aint prophets,.....all prophecies are embedded in the bible....all we do is decipher how they would come to pass and anticipate them.....

I want to boldly tell u.........

""JEHOVAHS WITNESSES ARENT PROPHETS IN THE 1st place""

We are simply bible students....

Hope u get that??.....

That's why I like buzugee a lot...

He's into bible chronology and the end time prophecies.....I like that!!!!!!!!!!!!

All that does is strengthen ones faith in the bibles authenticity and kindles ones awareness as to the times we are living in....

Its not like we even make money from it....lol....

My broda JW has a well organised archive and library and a resourceful compedium where u can access this information. Many pple have quotated the yr and date most of these articles were published and u want a scan copy of the article? Even if a whole booklet is scanned as a proof, u will still not acept. U might say the letters are faint or the scanner quality is low. If i were u i will copy down the dates the magazines or books were alleged to be published and find out it they r thru of false. No one needs to be spool-fed again cos we r all adults. Its so simple if u r really sincere in ur argument, get the dates the articles were published, the title, the pages quoted, and do ur confirmatn if they are true or false. We r not in a law court where the complainant will be asked to provide exhibit, its just funny to bring up logic here after enough info hav been provided as a basis for ur research.

I'm fully aware dat we will disagree when trying to prove whom the 70 years referred to. I've also noticed that many JW prefer to talk about the organization's doctrine e.g Blood, God's name,607 BCE etc however, many of them do not like to discuss their organization's past; the failed prophecies;1925,1975 embarassing failure and the beautiful mansion Rutherford bought for Abraham and others in the bible, to prove his resurrection doctrine.

Kindly do me a favour by answering this simple question(just a yes or no will do, u don't need to bury ur thought in words)

has ur organization ever prohesy wrongly?

Did they say resurrection would happen in 1925 or not? ( i believe U shuld know this, u don't need o ask me to provide evidences, only if u are trying to cover up d errors of ur organization, after all you must have heard of Bethasim, even non- JW know this(not sure if i spelt it right though))

I cannot but wonder why JW ignore this past especially When pple demand a reasonable explanation for the failure.

They just want don't want to face d fact

I will not be surprised if u do not answer any question about their failed prophecy. After all, that's what most JW do(although,i will be sincerely glad if u do otherwise)

Kindly do me a favour by answering this simple question(just a yes or no will do, u don't need to bury ur thought in words)

has ur organization ever prohesy wrongly?

Did they say resurrection would happen in 1925 or not? ( i believe U shuld know this, u don't need o ask me to provide evidences, only if u are trying to cover up d errors of ur organization, [size=18pt]after all you must have heard of Bethasim[/size], even non- JW know this

t-med:
I'm fully aware dat we will disagree when trying to prove whom the 70 years referred to. I've also noticed that many JW prefer to talk about the organization's doctrine e.g Blood, God's name,607 BCE etc however, many of them do not like to discuss their organization's past; the failed prophecies;1925,1975 embarassing failure and the beautiful mansion Rutherford bought for Abraham and others in the bible, to prove his resurrection doctrine.

Kindly do me a favour by answering this simple question(just a yes or no will do, u don't need to bury ur thought in words)

has ur organization ever prohesy wrongly?

Did they say resurrection would happen in 1925 or not? ( i believe U shuld know this, u don't need o ask me to provide evidences, only if u are trying to cover up d errors of ur organization, after all you must have heard of Bethasim, even non- JW know this(not sure if i spelt it right though))

I cannot but wonder why JW ignore this past especially When pple demand a reasonable explanation for the failure.

They just want don't want to face d fact

I will not be surprised if u do not answer any question about their failed prophecy. After all, that's what most JW do(although,i will be sincerely glad if u do otherwise).

prothelley:

you dnt make money from it, yet you ask for donations when giving out ur magazines. In reminding the receiver 'though our magazines re without charge 'but' we encourage donations'. So why do you ask for money? Stop deceiving urself...............Mal 3:10 says it all.

ijawkid:

If witnesses in d past due to lil mis-understanding of bible chronology drew into conclusion when an end will come how does that make them false prophets??

Today we are convinced from the scriptures that no one knows d day and hour not even Jesus........

If u choose to dwell on the mistakes of witnesses and dragging them down till today ur definitly on ur own........

Witnesses adjust to bible understanding when its clear....we aint stiff necked ........

Or wuld u rather want us to hug and romance past understandings and wallow in them??

Like I told u,Jehovahs witnesses are not prophets....we are bible students.......

Don't u get it??

We are not prophets........

we observe and study d bible to see how they apply to our times......

Isn't that what a bible student does??