Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? - Religion (5) - Nairaland
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| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by cgift(m): 4:34pm On Sep 19, 2007 |
I do not think thre is any church that lays off people who are not rich. I stand to be corrected. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by ow11(m): 4:51pm On Sep 19, 2007 |
No church lays off poor people but they ignore them. If a church has rich businessmen and the businessmen decide to give no problem! my stand is for those people who can't afford to donate but are still milked. its like get the cash from anywhere we must build a big church like winners'. thats why no pastor can ever refuse a donation from a commisioner even though the pastor knows a commisioners' salary cannot afford him the luxury of donating millions. he will rather encourage the member to steal government funds because he is giving to God. its shameful! |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Kobojunkie: 10:50pm On Sep 19, 2007 |
ow11: So you are basically saying you are standing for those who are feeble minded and do not know to do for self then ?? @$Rhino, Basically, YOu happen to be their god since you make it your place to COMPLAIN for them?? Or are you saying you donated money foolishly and now you are here to whine about it ?? I still do not get it . I gave my life as an example, I go to church and have NEVER been cajoled to give , infact all the times I have given regardless of how the pastor says it, I have given with my intention being to give it to God himself. Your talk there reminds me of people who blame Credit card companies and Loan companies when they themselves take out loans and squander the money and then can not make the payments. Somehow these peoplel claim that if the Credit company had not made it so enticing and CAUSED them ( yet understood) to get these Credit offers and then run up bills they KNOW they can not pay, they would not be in debt. ROBML, this is serious stuff  . yeah, the MCDONALDS MADE ME FAT group If a person can not control self enough to know that no other man or woman can CAUSE him to do anything , I mean look in the Bible, even the ISREALITES could not be talked into doing things they DID NOT WANT TO DO, How can a person BLAME another for his own ACTIONS  ? HOW ?KoboJunkie |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by ssRhino: 11:24pm On Sep 19, 2007 |
Kojo, when i dialogue, i dialogue with pple that seems to know how to talk, and since you not one of them, have fun. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by ow11(m): 12:55pm On Sep 20, 2007 |
Kobojunkie: you are actually right in saying that everyone should be strong willed and do things because they see it that way. I still have to say that unfortunately not everyone is like that. I am very decisive when it comes to things i believe in and frankly i still give offerings in church but i only do so within my own limits. Now some people are weak minded and a little persuasion can make them go overboard. U have to feel sorry for folks like that and a church is the last place people should be taken advantage of. Just because a pastor feels the church building needs extra spice shouldnt be a priority and so should not need extra giving. It can be done over a long period of time if at all; that is why i say it isnt necessary. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Kobojunkie: 1:21pm On Sep 20, 2007 |
The main is this. God makes no provisions for weak minded people to continue in their stupidity. If a person however wants to go for a pastor with such a big dream there is actually nothing against it. It is not illegal or immoral to want to worship and give to a big church or to build a bigger church. For the weak minded people who continually blame pastors for duping them and stuff, if it is not the pastor someone else will eventually do it to them anyways. It is like the 419 practice, if a man does not know how to guard his money, if not peter it will be paul that will get his money until that man learns to be wiser. So in the end, there are pastors with genuine dreams and people who do not mind contributing to those dreams and there will be the wolves in sheeps clothing , you find those even in your every family, even amongst your own siblings. My talk is that if a person finds it is necessary for him to contribute to a bigger church dream, it is necessary. If a person feels cajoled into supporting such a dream, I question the persons stand with God and even the persons maturity level. If a person feels to contribute and then blame the pastor, I say the person should be reprimanded for his or her stupidity. Blaming the pastor will not solve that persons case cause if it is not the pastor, it could be the door sales man that will get to that person one way or another. As a society and a people, we need to stop blaming the wrong people for our problems. Even in the bible we are called to look within. KoboJunkie |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by fuzek: 3:44pm On Sep 20, 2007 |
Kobojunkie, You said it all and i love d way u put it jare  |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by ow11(m): 6:00pm On Sep 20, 2007 |
a church wouldn't have everyone as spiritually mature as you. people get born again everyday and should be considered when making announcements. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by kayess(m): 6:03pm On Sep 20, 2007 |
Modern day Christians have deviated from the original concept of the CHURCH (people not buildings) and unless we go back to the basics, we will continue to have this problems until the LORD comes. The truth is that the early church never build cathedrals or so called buildings because "where two or three are gathered in HIS name, HE is there in there midst". The early church meet in homes to have fellowship with GOD and themselves. That is why you read people like Paul saying greet so and so and the church that meet in their homes. If we follow after the early church we will not have the problem of someone fighting over any edifice. That is my contribution for now. God bless you all. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by FemiD(m): 10:13am On Sep 21, 2007 |
The main is this. God makes no provisions for weak minded people to continue in their stupidity@Kobojunkie It's very unfortunate that you have decided to use such a derogatory word as 'stupid" for the people whom God has SOLELY come for. I think that reveals a flaw in the manner you think about fellow christians. So then, where is the love. Jesus Christ came for those you have described as weak-minded and perennially stupid. I encourage people to give freely for anything to promote the work of God but God cannot be helped, rather than trying to help God, he is our helper. Remember the bible record of the man who tried in assisting God by helping in preventing the ark from falling. Our church building does not in anyway bring him up or down, remember he is the God that does not change. God when on earth expressed his mind when he said: it is His meat (work) to do the will of his father and that is to bring more souls to God. It is good to give to the Lord for any purpose at all but it will be better if you really know what God wants from you. If you have read the Bible very well, you will realise where God places the premium the most. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by mekaboy(m): 6:34pm On Sep 21, 2007 |
If you love GOD, u give him ur best, WE Serve a Mighty GOD. why do the president and senators request for nice houses? Then u want to Worship the ALMIGHTY IN A SMALL PLACE.
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| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Kobojunkie: 6:46pm On Sep 21, 2007 |
FemiD: Actually @Femi I stayed away from using the very words used for such in the Bible , FOOLS , remember?? Cause of people like you who like to take what is said and turn it around to mean what it does not. Have you read the Bible lately?? @Femi , It does point out that people who are that way are fools and wicked and more, Jesus came for them does not negate the FACT That anyone who does such is FOOLISH and hence considered a FOOL, Maybe it is not the word that is the problem but your idea of how to apply it. Stop being afraid of words you ought not to be afraid of and focus on the ones you should be , KoboJunkie |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by ow11(m): 7:09pm On Sep 21, 2007 |
mekaboy: God and humans don't need the same thing. God doesn't need a fancy house to impress Him. He owns everything. The senators are on poverty alleviation and need those things to make them happy. God is happy when you give him your heart. It is a great waste if you build a mighty structure and don't have Him in your heart. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by ssRhino: 7:19pm On Sep 21, 2007 |
ow11, well said, i seem to think that most of our pple now thinks that they could go out there and do their silly stuff, like 419 and armed robbery and even fraud, and then go to church and bribe God, there are some giving that is nothing but a waste of time, and that is why the bible said, that many shall say on da last day, we perform miracle in ya name, but will tell them to go away from him, workers of iniquity, pple will give big money at church and yet their heart and mind is so terrible, how do you explain someone with huge donation at school and yet has unclean heart, cant help his fellow members to be someone in life, Jesus, said, when he was hungry, no one fed, him and when he was told to explain, he said, as long as you aint doing this to my pple, you are not doing it for me, walk da street of lagos, and you will see so much 6 year old, selling pure waters and yet some churches are building massive building with elevators? pls, what a waste of money, how many floor do a church has that requires an elevator, 2 floors? Infact, God will have a lot to judge |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by ow11(m): 7:57pm On Sep 21, 2007 |
@ $$Rhino the funny thing is these aggressive givers always say spiritual things are not understood by everyone but always use mundane physical things ( a rich man building a fine house so a church must follow) to justify their actions. It is a sad thing our country is being ruled by a bunch of hungry bandits but its even more unfortunate that the people that are supposed to help our people are not concerned rather they want to get rich and famous off the backs of these same poor people. I wish this continuous raping of our people by the govt and religious leaders will stop. The thread still remains; are expensive buildings necessary? and i still say HELL NO!!!!! there are more important things to do with money that 'tushing up' an already fancv building just because the one next door is finer. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Kobojunkie: 8:34pm On Sep 21, 2007 |
Kobojunkie: |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Bosdem(f): 10:20am On Sep 24, 2007 |
It's not necessary, to me o |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by FemiD(m): 10:48am On Sep 24, 2007 |
@kobojunkie It will appear you know both the written and unwritten words of God. I just want to cite 2 instances and you can go ahead and fill in the gap whether or not they were called foolish, stupid or whatever. 1. The poor widow who was about eating the last meal before meeting the prophet 2. Lazarus the poor servant Fortunately, God is not man, that is why he will confound the wisdom of men with the foolishness of the world. @mekaboy It may interest you to know that God ever since He has sent His son Jesus Christ to the world, is not interested in houses made by men but that made of men. And that is why you cannot beat Him, He is God. I say this with all the emphasis I can muster, the church you build does not affect God, it just helps the ego of the people who built it. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by pilgrim1(f): 10:55am On Sep 24, 2007 |
I think it helps to be careful about the inferences we make when reading the Bible. If God was not interesting in the places where we gather together to worship Him, then it would not matter that people gather at a graveyard or public toilet to do the same, abi? Make we be careful. God is indeed interested in both our bodies as His Temple; but He is also interested in the thoughts of our hearts that tend to excellent things as regards our worship to Him. This is why we read in such verses as Rom. 12:2 that we "may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" - and as we prayerfully consider this matter, we understand that it is "good and acceptable" that Christians seek to care enough that the places where we gather for worship befit His glory. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by FemiD(m): 11:26am On Sep 24, 2007 |
If God was not interesting in the places where we gather together to worship Him, then it would not matter that people gather at a graveyard or public toilet to do the same, abi? If that was a question, the answer will simply be that it doesn't matter. You perhaps have heard of testimonies of people who have locked themselves up in toilet just to take time out to pray. And did God answer them? Yes! It will be nice to have some missionaries narate their experiences, then you will appreciate that it doesn't really matter. Needless to say that it's because you have peace that you are looking for a decent place before you can serve God, those at war will definitely worship God without minding the location - graveyard or wherever |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by pilgrim1(f): 12:29pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
FemiD: I hear - and that is the example that every other Christian should begin locking themselves up in the toilet? I think that it is important that we learn to understand what appertains to public worship or gathering of the saints. God answers our prayers anywhere we lift up our voices to Him - and some of the finest saints of the Lord have been in worse places lifting their voices to Him in prayer: Paul and Silas in prison; Daniel in the lion's den; some others in captivity; and again Jeremiah in the sewage pit. Can we keep up this argument that "God doesn't care" about where His people gather together to worship Him? He cares, my dear friend, He cares. FemiD: I've been involved in missionary work of sorts - and so many things we've heard about some saints of God will simply put us to shame. I once knew a Christian woman who was beaten mercilessly for weeks; but after she was released by her captors, she was hardly out of the hospital before she asked us to pray that she wanted to go back to the very place where she was tortured - her heart yearned for the children in the dreaded place. Most of us in tears could not dare express her boldness - and yet, God has shown us marvelous things from her testimony. FemiD: But what about those who are not in war zones - should we make one before we "prove" that God doesn't really care about the locations where we gather? Have you asked yourself how people in war-torn regoins can afford to hold regular church services in chaos - the Lord's Supper, Bible Study, etc? Those of us who are not in war-ridden areas should be thankful that we have the freedom to worship and seek His face; and as much as we have that freedom, what is holding us back from expressing His loveliness in decent environments? Are we waiting for the latrines just to "prove" a needless point? Cheers ma bros. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by FemiD(m): 1:34pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
In order not to turn this into an argument, I must clearly state that I am not against a decent church but an expensive church is unnecessary. If God has blessed you so much that you deem it necessary to build a big church, build it, there are blessings that go with it. Canaan land of Winners' Chapel for example was built because the people realised that it will be better not to constitute nuisance in the name of worshipping God by blocking the roads impassable for the commuters. For those familiar with their location at Raji Oba, it was obvious it could no longer contain the worshippers. Is Canaan land expensive? No. The leader minimised the cost as much as it was possible, no foreign expatriate was used throughout the duration of the project (100% Nigerian Content), there are no sophisticated and extravagant decorations, no split ACs in the auditorium. Could they afford it? Yes! But they have made a choice to rather affect their world than invest in trivialities. Whatever you may have to say about the church, they stand out clearly as a church who understands that extravagance displayed by expensive churches can only be for self aggrandisement. For all of you who probably know the Bible more than I do, did we not read that we should do all things in moderation. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Nobody: 2:14pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
NO! remember that jesus did not have a church.  |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Kobojunkie: 2:26pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
FemiD: Dear Dear Femi, you will have you give me your reason why you think those two you mentioned there qualify to be called stupid in anyway, cause I completely miss your point and from what you posted there, it seems you are one of those who picks a statement made and runs off with it without spending time to understand the context in which it was made. Are you sure you even have a case here and are not arguing stupidly here?? Cause it would seem so to me as I have no idea what in the world you are going on about. The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs, Mark 7 vs 26 to 29 1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. Kobojunkie |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by FemiD(m): 4:14pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
Are you sure you even have a case here and are not arguing stupidly here@kobojunkie: Well, I want note the use of your words without taking an offence. It just helps to appreciate from what side of the fence you are coming from. Thanks for making those Bible quote: I would have thought that is enough to prove to you that resident in the lives of those you call stupid lies the wisdom of God. Since it is obvious that you have a communication deficiency, it definitely will not be worth it to make any further comments in your direction. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Kobojunkie: 4:28pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
Actually, you are the one with the communication defiency here. @Femi What in this statement do you not understand If a person however wants to go for a pastor with such a big dream there is actually nothing against it. It is not illegal or immoral to want to worship and give to a big church or to build a bigger church. For the weak minded people who continually blame pastors for duping them and stuff, if it is not the pastor someone else will eventually do it to them anyways. It is like the 419 practice, if a man does not know how to guard his money, if not peter it will be paul that will get his money until that man learns to be wiser. If a person feels cajoled into supporting such a dream, I question the persons stand with God and even the persons maturity level. If a person feels to contribute and then blame the pastor, I say the person should be reprimanded for his or her stupidity. I am sure you can read the English language , Kobojunkie |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by pilgrim1(f): 4:39pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
FemiD: There - and I wonder why people would still argue aagainst having beautiful church property for worship. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by FemiD(m): 5:04pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
I am not against beautiful churches; extravagant and expensive churches are the ones I consider unnecessary. 'Moderation' is the word that summarises my thought on an ideal church building. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by seun001(m): 6:19pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
FemiD:WORD! |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by pilgrim1(f): 6:31pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
What is 'extravagant' to some people is only relative to others - and that is why I used the word 'beautiful'. I don't suppose that the example you gave earlier was 'cheap' by any standard; rather we have measured it by some contrasting yardstick to assume that it was not 'expensive'. If the topic is dealing with 'expensive church buildings', we would have to concede that we all incur great expenses in any building project to that end. If it's a matter of whether or not we could 'afford' it, it still brings us back to same thing: it is expensive - relative to a contrasting measuring assumption. |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by Kobojunkie: 7:06pm On Sep 24, 2007 |
FemiD: How does that answer the accusations you leveled against me??@Femi and by the way , I am glad you know it is just your thought and not necessarily the thought of those who look at what you consider EXTRAVAGANT and see Decent and MODERATE instead. To Them it is Necessary, maybe it is not to you, but I am still on your accusing me of calling God's people stupid when you did not even read what I posted , Kobojunkie: Kobojunkie |
| Re: Are Expensive Church Buildings Really Necessary? by TSingerr(m): 10:09pm On Sep 25, 2007 |
dont think building expensive churches is bad. The church shud be an icon to everyone in all ramifications. besides go to europe today and see all the century-old churches and cathedrals. they wouuldnt have been standin today-centuries after if they were shabily or averagely built. just go to rome alone and you'll be greatlyhumbled. churches were built with the best there was. also, solomon built the greatest temple ever as at his time for God. God didnt refuse or reject the temple. heaven is beautiful and God has taste. He wont mind. So far the churches are genuine and so on |
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