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The "sinner". - Religion - Nairaland

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Debunking The ‘love The Sinner, Hate The Sin’ Myth / A Born Again Christian Is Not A Sinner (even If He Sins) / The Unbiblical Practice Of Altar Calls & The Sinner's Prayer (2) (3) (4)

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The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 1:06pm On Oct 17, 2011
Romans5:19.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made SINNER'S,so by the obedience of one shall many be made Righteous.
The question is,who is a sinner?-Everyone who was born in Adam is a sinner.we are sinners by birth(jhn1:13)it doesn't matter what kind of person we are,provided we are born in Adam,we are sinners.if we sin we are a sinning sinners,and if we sinneth not,we are moral sinners.provided we are human beings,we are sinners.we are not Sinners because we sin,rather, we sin because we are Sinners.
Though our sins are forgiven,we(Christains) remain Sinners.
In 1Tim1:15,Paul didn't say his sins were not forgiven,but,he was a Sinner.He(Paul) cant deny the work of God in his life,neither could He deny  his position in Adam.
we(Christains) have recieve more Grace in Christ,but,God hasn't fully removed the problem of sin on earth.the problem of sin won't be fully solved untill the new Heaven and new earth appear.
Although,the works of our Lord Jesus Christ is finish(Salvation).
We(Christains) groaneth within ourselves,waiting for the Adoption,the Redemption of our body(Romans8:22-23).
May God bestow more Grace to His Church,and May the HOLY SPIRIT continue to constitute Christ in Us,by removing our position in Adam in Jesus name.
Re: The "sinner". by Joagbaje(m): 1:25pm On Oct 17, 2011
i.chuka:

The question is,who is a sinner?-Everyone who was born in Adam is a sinner.we are sinners by birth(jhn1:13)it doesn't matter what kind of person we are,provided we are born in Adam,we are sinners. . , ,we are sinners.we are not Sinners because we sin,rather, we sin because we are Sinners.

This is a good illustration .

Though our sins are forgiven,we(Christains) remain Sinners.

A christian is not a sinner . It is an or a natural man that is a sinner. Because of the nature of sin. A christian is the righteousness of God in christ . Even if he sinned that hasn't changed his nature from being righteous to become Sin. I've not seen where apostle paul calls a christian a sinner.
Re: The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 3:44pm On Oct 17, 2011
@Joagbeye,
Romans7:14;For we(Christains)know that the law is  Spiritual:but I am CANAL,sold under Sin.
V17;Now then it is no more I that do it,but Sin that dwelleth in Me.
V18;For I know that in ME(that is,in my Flesh)dwelleth no good thing for to will is present with ME;but how to perform that which is good I find out.
V22;For I delight in the law of God after the Inward MAN(that is He delight in doing the will of the Spirit in His spirit).
V23;But I see another law in my members(Flesh) warring against the Law of my mind(that is warring against the Law of Spirit).and bring me into captivity to the law of Sin which is in my member.
Paul was speaking to the Church in Rome,using Himself as an example,though he willeth to do good in His inward mind,there's a law in His body warring against His spirit,why?it's because He was born of blood,of the flesh,and by the will of a Man(jhn1:13).He(paul)  also groaneth inwardly,waiting eagerly to be adopted as a Son,and for His body to be fully redeemed(Roms8:23)
Re: The "sinner". by Joagbaje(m): 4:18pm On Oct 17, 2011
A christian may do something wrong. We all miss it one way or the other and when we realise we make amend. But that doesn't make us "Sinners" . To be a sinner is to have the nature of sin
Re: The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 6:49pm On Oct 17, 2011
@Joagbaye,why do Christains Sin?its because they are Sinners!Christains do tell lies,they sometimes have unclean thoughts,we even lust after the flesh and the world,are these things not sins?Yes!they are!we lust,tell lies and have unclean thoughts because we are Sinners,these happens,when Christ is in us,but as we are in Him,there's no problem,for we have never sin and cant sin,there are two realms;1:we in Christ(there's no problem for in the eyes of God the Church have not sinned and knew no sin),2:Christ in us(that's where the problem lays,)jhn15:4,there are two realms,though both are connected.let me give u an illustration;my surname is Chuka,i didn't choose the name,i am Chuka because my father is Chuka and that because my grandfather is Chuka,wether i behave or act like a Chuka,am still like Chuka,if i become the president of Nigeria,a bishop or a begger today am still a Chuka,i cant change who i am,why is that?because i was born a Chuka,so because i am born a Chuka,to be free,i have to die a Chuka,it is by birth i became who i am to be free i have to die,thats the work of the Holy Spirit in our life,applying the Cross to our mortal body inorder to constitute Christ in our being,transforming us into His image and likeness,in the Godhead Christ is the only one with an image(Gen1:27-28).
Re: The "sinner". by Joagbaje(m): 11:43am On Oct 18, 2011
2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


A christian is no longer a sinner. If a man sins .it's yieldedness to the lust of the flesh. That's not who he is. If you bark like a dog . It doesn't make you a dog. A man can't live a victorious life over sin as long as he sees himself as s a sinner.

Christ has birthed in us a new nature of righteousness. That's our identity, we must constantly see ourselves as the righteousness of God. Not seein ourselves in the old man who has been crucified .You don't describe yourself by you mistake but by God description of you.
Re: The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 4:12pm On Oct 18, 2011
@joagbeye,of course as we are in Christ there no problem?in fact we have never Sin and cnt Sin,the PROBLEM is when Christ is in us,didn't you read my last post well?it seems you are reciting what you are been taught/told.not just what you understand/know,we Christains have that problems most of us,the earlier we Christains start studing our bible personally and stop believing or doing everything other say that better person we will become,just open your eyes and be objective in reading my last text again,take care.
Re: The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 4:16pm On Oct 18, 2011
@joagbeye,of course as we are in Christ there no problem?in fact we have never Sin and cnt Sin,the PROBLEM is when Christ is in us,didn't you read my last post well?it seems you are reciting what you are been taught/told.not just what you understand/know,we Christains have that problems most of us,the earlier we Christains start studing our bible personally and stop believing or doing everything other say that better person we will become,just open your eyes and be objective in reading my last text again,take care.
Re: The "sinner". by Ehimarelaw: 6:45pm On Oct 18, 2011
This is interesting, that the personality of the Christian is still misunderstood.
The Christian is not a sinner and the sinner is not a Christian,  In Ephesians 2:1-3 says

Chapter 2

1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by NATURE the children of wrath, even as others.

from the scripture we can see that the sinner is a sinner by nature, that is why he does all the negative things he does. But the Christian is not so, his nature is changed first and new nature is given to him when he received christ,  2 Corinthians 5:21

21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now God is the one that is righteous, but on believing on Jesus he has given us his righteous nature.
1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Chuka, from the above scripture u can see that the Christian is not a sinner,
NOTE: A sinner is a sinner by nature and a Christian is righteous by nature.
Romans 10:1-3

Chapter 10

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

So a Christian that still sins is still growing in the knowledge of Gods word, that is why the bible says 1Corinthians 13:11
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

The Christian just have to grow with the word of God, but while he is growing and he make mistake he still need more of the word of God like 1 John 2:1-2

Chapter 2

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
The scripture say "if" any man sin,and not "when" any man sin.
Re: The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 9:34pm On Oct 18, 2011
@ehimarelaw,you and joagbeye are mixing things up.See!there is a BIG!difference between we(Christains) been in Christ(In the Heavenly places)and Christ in us(on earth).all the verses you quoted have to do with us in Christ,we in Christ have never Sin,because His nature(Holiness)is now our nature,how can we Sin?that's impossible.Listen!please!the problem lays when Christ is in us here on Earth,why's it so?because the ruler of the earth is the prince of the air(satan).he is still in power here on earth,we have not yet been FULLY adopted as SONS and we still wait for the redemption of our body(Roms8:23).which will happen in the Second coming of Christ.even Paul the apostle cried that his body is full of Sin(Roms7:24-25).you said we(Christains) make mistakes,what do you mean by mistakes?if what you meant is telling little lies,lusting inwardly,boasting and getting angry,the Bible calls those things sins.and who is a Sinner?anyone that make mistakes/commit sin.brother as long as there's blood in your body,you were born by earthly parents and by there will you are a Sinner period!(jhn1:13)take care!
Re: The "sinner". by Joagbaje(m): 10:08pm On Oct 18, 2011
i.chuka:

.brother as long as there's blood in your body,you were born by earthly parents and by there will you are a Sinner period!(jhn1:13)take care!

Is that what the bible teaches you. Jesus died to produce sinners?
Re: The "sinner". by Ehimarelaw: 11:39pm On Oct 18, 2011
I so amazed that some one can still sound this way, with all the truth in Gods word,  Pls chuka, can u tell me the meaning of 1 John 3:2

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

How can u say we are not yet fully the sons of God,  What is the meaning of been born again if u still a product of your parent and yet the bible says in John 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God,

Pls take out time to look at the truth for your self in the bible and pray for Gods understanding,
Re: The "sinner". by newmi(m): 7:15am On Oct 19, 2011
the Christian is not a sinner to call him a sinner is to discredit the works of Christ on that cross of justice, you see Jesus hanging on that cross was the summit of all justice done and on that cross the bible says that He became not just a sinner but He became "sin" that the totality of what sin represented little wonder the bible records that on that cross He cried out my father my father why has thou forsaken me because The Father is pure He can not behold iniquity so He turned His face away. Now in Christ Jesus for everyone will accept and make personal the Demonstration of love carried by Jesus Christ such a one according to 2 Corinthians 5:17 is a new creature and automatically has "The Righteousness" of ascribed to him.
We must separate sin as an action and a nature. Anyone who is not bornagain is qualified to called a sinner whether or not he does anything good or bad why becos by one man sin entered into the world. But this not to say that as Christians, one may not make mistakes afterall even as saints we are constantly being perfectedthe
Ephesians 4:12
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Re: The "sinner". by Joagbaje(m): 7:44am On Oct 19, 2011
The sinner is a man without God. The righteous is a man born by God.

1 Peter 4:18
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Re: The "sinner". by newmi(m): 7:48am On Oct 19, 2011
1 John 2:1
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Re: The "sinner". by newmi(m): 7:51am On Oct 19, 2011
^^^^
"If" not "When" meaning that its a condition of probability not one certainty and it is also interesting that this was addressed to babes and infants in the faith because kids will always be kids always having need to be corrected
Re: The "sinner". by newmi(m): 8:01am On Oct 19, 2011
Proverbs 20:11
11 Even a child is known by his doings. . .
little wonder why the apostle Paul said when he was child he spake as a child but when he became mature he laid as childish things.
The Christian is sharer of the God nature, he or she is a participator in the divine experience and righteousness is a nature of God
Re: The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 9:35am On Oct 19, 2011
Dear brothers in Christ(joagbeye,ehimarelaw and newti).you are still mixing two different things which are connected up.we in Christ and Christ in us(jhn15:4-5).we are not fully united as one yet(marriage on His second coming).we in Christ  have never Sin,and knew no Sin,even before God created these world we are already in Christ,hw can we know Sin,when Adam dont even exist then!(ephesian1:3-5).the problem is when Christ is in us here on earth,the part of Christ that is in us is pure,Holy and Righteous.the problem is not Christ atall,but,we that are born of the flesh,the will of our parents,and by our parents(jhn1:13)because He is in us our spirit groaneth waiting eagerly for adoption as Sons by it been fully redeemed in His second coming(Roms8:23).
Now lets go through your verses.
1john3:2;beloved,now are we the sons of God,(its a question)and it doth not yet appear what we shall besadthat is we are Sons but it have not manifested yet).but we know that,when He shall appear(that is the second coming)we shall be like Him(marriage 2 becomes 1)for we shall see Him as He is(that is as He is so would we be).
John1:12.but as many as received Him,to them gave He power to BECOME(A PROGRESSIVE TENSES!)Sons of God.
The Apostles(Paul and john) wrote to us from two different point of veiw from the heavenly when we are in Christ,and from earthly point of veiw when Christ is in us,we have to know the different or we will end up mixing everything up.cheers!
Re: The "sinner". by ichuka(m): 10:41am On Oct 19, 2011
Like what am saying;the two(Christ in us and we in Christ)are two different things,just like Sin,sins,the law of sin,the law of death.if we are not careful we would mix them up.the Righteousness of our Lord Jesus and the Lord Jesus as our Righteousness are two different things if we are not careful we wld mix them up.

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