thatigboman:
na human being dem kill?

Ritualist

Blizzy9ja:
Rubbish culture

Your opinion.. doesn't make it Rubbish.
If other cultures can practice what they have been doing for thousands of years I see nothing bad in this.

thatigboman:
na human being dem kill?

I wonder ooo.

package7:
Some indomie generation don't really know what transpired when they are constructing the bridge . Many people lost their lives. Go and ask your parents what they refer or call "spanner"
Give unto ceasear what belongs to ceasear.

Perfect... Give unto Caesar what belong to Caesar and let everyone go peacefully.

PHAYOL81:
Don't be a pathetic CLOWN. You asked a simple question, the post tried to simplify the answer with relative explanation but then, you still find a way to divide the reply, citing a part as not in line with the question while putting the other part （in stark contradiction）as not giving the exact answer you want to hear. If you already have you mindset fixated on a certain belief, why troubling others with useless querries then？

^^^
For some reason, I never got a notification about your mentions. I am only just getting to see them tonight, completely by accident.

First of all, you clearly have no argument.

If you had a coherent argument then you would lay it out and it would speak for itself. Because you have no argument, you take refuge in silly, childish insults. My posts are as clear as can be and there's nothing to add or subtract. If you can't comprehend them, I can't help you.

PHAYOL81:
Anyway, did you see the video？ Does any of the participants, onlookers, passers-by, in the ritual as the video depicts look like a king, chiefs or priest to you？ Or when has it happen that the traditionalists whom were the custodian of their custom would suddenly leave the procession to non-initiated to do？

^^^


Yes I did see the video.

You are obviously incapable of building any kind of mildly complex scenario. Does every 'ritual' by definition involve a king, chief or priests? Have you thought about the possibility that the men carrying out the sacrifice in the video are traditionalists and they assumed (or were given) the responsibility to carry out the ritual? Must they all be bare chested and in white wrappers to prove their 'traditionalness' to you?

PHAYOL81:
I may not know about the GERMANS level of infusion into spirituality but I can tell you for free that the FAR AND MIDDLE EAST （CHINESE, INDIANS, LEBANESE,） popular religions are traditional and offers RITES to their respective deities till today. To construct complex structures, they still offers RITUAL like this for non-problematic and non-fatality success.

^^^
I do not need your unsolicited advice (free or not) on far and middle Eastern popular religion...I am more than capable of finding out that information for myself. I was very specific in the example I gave in my earlier posts: Bilfinger Berger - a German construction company. By your own admission in your post above, you are ignorant about 'German level of infusion into spirituality' (whatever the hell that means ). Since you know nothing about the specific example I cited, I will discuss instead with others who do know something about the topic.

PHAYOL81:
TO respond to your question on the open space sacrifice, my believe is that they likely would have special shrine for this purpose down in their countries but may not be opportuned to stationed such anywhere here/everywhere they go particularly as it may not be prerequisite for them to perform whatever ritual their beliefs require.

^^^


What you believe doesn't count for anything here. We are interested in facts and evidence here, not the empty, meaningless conjecture that is the hallmark of your posts on this thread. I said it once and I will repeat it since you seem to be unusually obtuse, even by NL standards: Bilfinger Berger doesn't do goat sacrifices before building infrastructure in Germany.

Take it or leave it.

Fujiyama:


^^^
For some reason, I never got a notification about your mentions. I am only just getting to see them tonight, completely by accident.

First of all, you clearly have no argument.

If you had a coherent argument then you would lay it out and it would speak for itself. Because you have no argument, you take refuge in silly, childish insults. My posts are as clear as can be and there's nothing to add or subtract. If you can't comprehend them, I can't help you.



^^^


Yes I did see the video.

You are obviously incapable of building any kind of mildly complex scenario. Does every 'ritual' by definition involve a king, chief or priests? Have you thought about the possibility that the men carrying out the sacrifice in the video are traditionalists and they assumed (or were given) the responsibility to carry out the ritual? Must they all be bare chested and in white wrappers to prove their 'traditionalness' to you?



^^^
I do not need your unsolicited advice (free or not) on far and middle Eastern popular religion...I am more than capable of finding out that information for myself. I was very specific in the example I gave in my earlier posts: Bilfinger Berger - a German construction company. By your own admission in your post above, you are ignorant about 'German level of infusion into spirituality' (whatever the hell that means ). Since you know nothing about the specific example I cited, I will discuss instead with others who do know something about the topic.



^^^


What you believe doesn't count for anything here. We are interested in facts and evidence here, not the empty, meaningless conjecture that is the hallmark of your posts on this thread. I said it once and I will repeat it since you seem to be unusually obtuse, even by NL standards: Bilfinger Berger doesn't do goat sacrifices before building infrastructure in Germany.

Take it or leave it.

I will make this simple as possible lest you see insults where there ain't none. And this is despite having drawn a conclusive line under the discussion that day having realized you're already inclined to a belief and were/are only trying so hard to push such notion of yours down the throat of any opposition in whatever way. Mind you, this is definitely gonn be my last contribution on this topic. It's official now.
First of, my response merely ask you to not act like a pathetic clown since you're showing a trait of one, not actually calling you one. You can go back to read carefully. And you can always check my posts too, unless you resort to insults, I won't start such against no one. We all deserves each other respect.
Now to your major points, you ask whether a king, chief or priest must be at a ritual procession？ THE ANSWER IS YES, ABSOLUTELY YES. I don't know what tribe you belong to but traditional rites in YORUBALAND has always been and must be performed by the custodians. They don't leave it to the uninitiated to perform. It's an abomination. And to further clear more doubt of yours about whether they must dress in accordance, YES THEY USUALLY DO. Day, night, anytime they do their thing, they dress for it because they're proud of their custom and tradition, and run the show in their required costume；old, young, teens, male or female of them. They bear their heritage with pride. Again, no traditional rite had ever been performed unless it was performed by the priest （always dressed for it）with or without the company of the royal circle. In that video, none passed as priest with the ram killer obviously more of a manual labourer. And contrary to your convinction, the priest has no point deceiving people or pretending to be otherwise. Most of their rites are always announced anyway and they do them without seeking interference from the public, whether at day or night.
Another point is that the clip that's the port of argument had chinese firm in them, not GERMANS. WHY did you have to sideline the main point of discussion to base your argument on another just because a couple of people mentioned hearsay about the German firm having done same over the same project？ The chinese, lebanese, indians, koreans are known traditionalists, and despite their numerous numbers of them in the country, you hardly would find them in the christian or moslem's places of worship if you have a close relation with these contractors, except they do their rites as their beliefs dictate before appearing at work, so why do you have difficulty in seeing the clip exactly as it came up online but you had to come up with conspiracy theory of it having indigeneous traditionalists whom weren't captured involved？
Remember, no one had claimed the host, the YORUBA, don't have traditionalists amongst them, especially those who performed rites but in that case, they ain't involved. that's what we want you to know. Infact, of what use is a pretext to any priest （which may make him dress anyhow）when he is obviously known to anybody in the neighbourhood as one？ I don't know of any tribe else but the traditionalists don't hide their belief/faith here. The only people you can accuse of deceit are the hypocrites who are members （not always the main priest himself）but because of their wealth, fame, position et all, don't participate in their public gathering at day time but only at night. Yet, that these would rather not attend doesn't mean the priests would leave ritual procession for uninitiated. The rites would still be performed by the group. In some cases where it's mandatory for these lots to participate, even at daytime, they end up participating.
LIKE I already pointed, you have a fixed mind set on a belief, so why the questions？ YOU asked questions and while the person answer, you contradicted with your motive and dragged up a debate which you try to center around your opinion only. It's absurd. If you aspire a debate, then all points especially the important ones matter. Debate is an enlightening argument which is aimed to bring forth more points than the opposition to win the context NOT CENTRE AROUND JUST A POINT OF A PARTICIPANT. My last reply to you. This is not to convince you as I already know your stand but to correct impression that you're making for a free mind to reflect on. Good morning.

PHAYOL81:
I will make this simple as possible lest you see insults where there ain't none. First of, my response merely ask you to not act like a pathetic clown since you're showing a trait of one, not actually calling you one. You can go back to read carefully. And you can always check my posts too, unless you resort to insults, I won't start such against no one. We all deserves each other respect.

^^^


Only an unrepentant, irredeemable hypocrite does the sort of thing you are trying to do here. After showing a glaring lack of respect and decorum you are now trying to walk back your comments.

I was very civil in my earlier posts. I did not insult you or call you names. You introduced the gutter language and the name calling - where there was absolutely no reason for it. Like I said earlier, it is clearly a defence mechanism to mask your lack of a solid, convincing argument. I generally avoid exchanges with posters like you because I have nothing to gain from gratuitous insults. Any fool can engage in that...and I simply don't have the time or interest in doing so.

PHAYOL81:
And this is despite having drawn a conclusive line under the discussion that day having realized you're already inclined to a belief and were/are only trying so hard to push such notion of yours down the throat of any opposition in whatever way.

^^^


Nonsense.

My posts are there for all to read. I asked another poster a couple of questions and stated some facts about construction work in Germany. If in your book that translates to pushing notions 'down the throat of any opposition' , then that's your problem

PHAYOL81:
Now to your major points, you ask whether a king, chief or priest must be at a ritual procession？ THE ANSWER IS YES, ABSOLUTELY YES. I don't know what tribe you belong to but traditional rites in YORUBALAND has always been and must be performed by the custodians. They don't leave it to the uninitiated to perform. It's an abomination.

^^^


Yet more nonsense.

First of all, your liberal use of the word 'tribe' exposes your complete lack of awareness of the origins of that word and what it connotes. That word as used by colonialists and European 'explorers' is highly pejorative, and self respecting Africans generally avoid its use today. Much more acceptable terms are 'ethnicity', 'ethnic group' or 'ethnic nationality'. Be guided.

Second...kindly go back and read my question again. I asked if every ritual involves a king, chiefs or priests. Despite what you think, the answer to that is a resounding no...unless you are saying every ritual has a 'procession'. I grew up in the heart of Yorubaland with ATR devotees constantly placing calabashes at 'T' junctions with grains, legumes and a few unfortunate animals contained therein. There was no procession of royalty or the ATR priesthood...sometimes it was just one or two individuals involved. Were all those individuals ATR devotees? Obviously. Were they all kings, chiefs and ATR priests? Obviously not.

PHAYOL81:
And to further clear more doubt of yours about whether they must dress in accordance, YES THEY USUALLY DO.

^^^


Very funny.

I asked if they compulsorily dress for the occasion and you leave yourself some wiggle room with the word 'usually'. This point is important because the video shows a man in Ankara antire and an individual in Lagos State Safety Commission? uniform carrying out the rites. I wager these men are ATR devotees who carried out the sacrifice...and they are most certainly not dressed 'in accordance' as you put it.

PHAYOL81:
Again, no traditional rite had ever been performed unless it was performed by the priest （always dressed for it）with or without the company of the royal circle. In that video, none passed as priest with the ram killer obviously more of a manual labourer. And contrary to your convinction, the priest has no point deceiving people or pretending to be otherwise.

^^^


So what exactly are you trying to say?

So...the priests, kings etc. performed the rites but ran away from the cameras because they are press shy? Or the LASG official and the other fellow are just random interlopers who showed up and started draining the blood of a ram into a bowl?

What exactly is your point?

PHAYOL81:
Another point is that the clip that's the port of argument had chinese firm in them, not GERMANS. WHY did you have to sideline the main point of discussion to base your argument on another just because a couple of people mentioned hearsay about the German firm having done same over the same project？

^^^
I have repeatedly asked that you go over my posts once again to fully understand them. They are clear and easy to read.

Ok...let me understand this. Someone mentioned Julius Berger in relation to the topic and I threw in a couple of points that are germane to the discussion. In your wisdom (or folly, depending on how you look at it) you are trying to legislate the direction of the argument? Are you the Thought Police?

PHAYOL81:
The chinese, lebanese, indians, koreans are known traditionalists, and despite their numerous numbers of them in the country, you hardly would find them in the christian or moslem's places of worship if you have a close relation with these contractors, except they do their rites as their beliefs dictate before appearing at work, so why do you have difficulty in seeing the clip exactly as it came up online but you had to come up with conspiracy theory of it having indigeneous traditionalists whom weren't captured involved？

^^^


Are the men holding that ram in the video Chinese, Lebanese or Indian? Again, what exactly is your point?

PHAYOL81:
Remember, no one had claimed the host, the YORUBA, don't have traditionalists amongst them, especially those who performed rites but in that case, they ain't involved. that's what we want you to know.

^^^
You are being highly disingenuous here. But it isn't working.

PHAYOL81:
LIKE I already pointed, you have a fixed mind set on a belief, so why the questions？ YOU asked questions and while the person answer, you contradicted with your motive and dragged up a debate which you try to center around your opinion only. It's absurd. If you aspire a debate, then all points especially the important ones matter. Debate is an enlightening argument which is aimed to bring forth more points than the opposition to win the context NOT CENTRE AROUND JUST A POINT OF A PARTICIPANT. My last reply to you. This is not to convince you as I already know your stand but to correct impression that you're making for a free mind to reflect on. Good morning.

^^^


Spare me the hypocritical, self serving sermons. I have no need or use for them.

You have no argument and it shows. In my first few posts on this thread, I asked a couple of brief questions and put forward some easily verifiable facts. You did not challenge any of them (because you can't) but instead went off on a wild tangent to only God knows where. I guess I was expecting too much from an individual who views the exchange of ideas from the prism of 'tribe', without understanding that the very use of that word diminishes him and does him no favours.

Go learn how to properly structure an argument...then we can talk and I can learn something from you.

Good morning!

Fujiyama:


^^^


Only an unrepentant, irredeemable hypocrite does the sort of thing you are trying to do here. After showing a glaring lack of respect and decorum you are now trying to walk back your comments.

I was very civil in my earlier posts. I did not insult you or call you names. You introduced the gutter language and the name calling - where there was absolutely no reason for it. Like I said earlier, it is clearly a defence mechanism to mask your lack of a solid, convincing argument. I generally avoid exchanges with posters like you because I have nothing to gain from gratuitous insults. Any fool can engage in that...and I simply don't have the time or interest in doing so.



^^^


Nonsense.

My posts are there for all to read. I asked another poster a couple of questions and stated some facts about construction work in Germany. If in your book that translates to pushing notions 'down the throat of any opposition' , then that's your problem



^^^


Yet more nonsense.

First of all, your liberal use of the word 'tribe' exposes your complete lack of awareness of the origins of that word and what it connotes. That word as used by colonialists and European 'explorers' is highly pejorative, and self respecting Africans generally avoid its use today. Much more acceptable terms are 'ethnicity', 'ethnic group' or 'ethnic nationality'. Be guided.

Second...kindly go back and read my question again. I asked if every ritual involves a king, chiefs or priests. Despite what you think, the answer to that is a resounding no...unless you are saying every ritual has a 'procession'. I grew up in the heart of Yorubaland with ATR devotees constantly placing calabashes at 'T' junctions with grains, legumes and a few unfortunate animals contained therein. There was no procession of royalty or the ATR priesthood...sometimes it was just one or two individuals involved. Were all those individuals ATR devotees? Obviously. Were they all kings, chiefs and ATR priests? Obviously not.



^^^


Very funny.

I asked if they compulsorily dress for the occasion and you leave yourself some wiggle room with the word 'usually'. This point is important because the video shows a man in Ankara antire and an individual in Lagos State Safety Commission? uniform carrying out the rites. I wager these men are ATR devotees who carried out the sacrifice...and they are most certainly not dressed 'in accordance' as you put it.



^^^


So what exactly are you trying to say?

So...the priests, kings etc. performed the rites but ran away from the cameras because they are press shy? Or the LASG official and the other fellow are just random interlopers who showed up and started draining the blood of a ram into a bowl?

What exactly is your point?




^^^
I have repeatedly asked that you go over my posts once again to fully understand them. They are clear and easy to read.

Ok...let me understand this. Someone mentioned Julius Berger in relation to the topic and I threw in a couple of points that are germane to the discussion. In your wisdom (or folly, depending on how you look at it) you are trying to legislate the direction of the argument? Are you the Thought Police?




^^^


Are the men holding that ram in the video Chinese, Lebanese or Indian? Again, what exactly is your point?



^^^
You are being highly disingenuous here. But it isn't working.




^^^


Spare me the hypocritical, self serving sermons. I have no need or use for them.

You have no argument and it shows. In my first few posts on this thread, I asked a couple of brief questions and put forward some easily verifiable facts. You did not challenge any of them (because you can't) but instead went off on a wild tangent to only God knows where. I guess I was expecting too much from an individual who views the exchange of ideas from the prism of 'tribe', without understanding that the very use of that word diminishes him and does him no favours.

Go learn how to properly structure an argument...then we can talk and I can learn something from you.

Good morning!

DONE with the topic like I'd pointed earlier for all the reasons I pointed earlier. I hope you don't have problem understanding that. Good night.