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Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by SahihJP: 6:35pm On Nov 08, 2011 |
The good things of Islam's paradise are reserved for the men. If any woman believes to the contrary, please submit your findings for verification. Meanwhile, I begin the count down of the blessings of paradise. All who believe a specific blessing is for the men just say MEN, all who believe it is for the women just say WOMEN. [center][size=16pt]Houris for Brides[/size][/center] Top on the list are the voluptuous houris whom we already mentioned but still have a lot to talk about. The Muslim men’s marriage to the houris means that the men would no longer be restricted to mating with earthlings and females of their kind, but would also be having sex with spirit beings. The Muslim women, on the other hand, get to paradise only to be thrown back to the same husbands—either the women told Allah that their present husbands would suffice for their eternal rewards or Allah already concluded that the women have no say in paradise. In any case, Allah in his wisdom, justice and equity neither saw it fit to provide the women with the option of marrying or staying free nor did he provide the women with male equivalents of the seventy houris which he gave the Muslim men; not even one male houri for the seventy he gave the men. Some might begin to wonder whether Allah’s generosity is gender sensitive. The consequence of this selective treatment is that whether in this life or in the next, Muslim women have no better promises than what they have now for husbands. The men, on the other hand, can look beyond these present Muslim women to more ravishing ethereal females for their eternal consolation. This matrimonial arrangement which is set up exclusively to satisfy the loins of the men at the expense of the women is, in the eyes of some, the glorious pattern that every woman should strive to be a part of. And the women are welcome to abandon their one-man-one-wife marital structure and embrace Islam, so they can be a part of the large harem of females attending to the sensual needs of one man. The women are welcome to even die in defense of Islam so they can be a part of a larger harem in paradise where they would wait in line for the man to be done with his 70 virgins (some say 500) before meeting the Muslim woman’s needs—if he still has any interest left in him after his celestial nuptial circuit. Obviously, these Muslim men are so hot that just having one of them as an eternal companion is worth the price Islam requires any woman to pay to have one for a husband—and you ladies had better believe it because we are told this is the message from God to you. It is appalling to know that even death could not free the Muslim woman from the grip of a husband whom she wedded when she was probably a child of five or six, (in some cases younger)— just to ensure that she was a virgin bride. The Muslim woman resurrects to continue her services to the same man, who had power over her body on earth to beat her if he felt insecure, and power over her soul to deny her paradise if he felt she had been ungrateful to him: Men have authority over women because God has made one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. (Dawood, Surah 4: 34) I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet said, "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds. If you are benevolent to one of them throughout the life and if she sees anything (undesirable) in you, she will say, 'I have never had any good from you.’ (Sahih Bukhari 2:161) With the Muslim man wielding so much power over the soul of the woman in the name of religion, who then is really the woman’s Allah? Muhammad confirmed that hell is full of women who were not ungrateful to Allah, yet were sent to hell because their husbands pronounced them ungrateful—that should make sense in a religion where the man has veto power. Muhammad who brought the message did not need to emphasize this aspect of Islam; he knew that the women got the message: the men are calling the shots, so pleasing them is greater than pleasing Allah. Those women who think otherwise will find themselves in hell because their gratitude to Allah would count for nothing—and he (Muhammad) had seen it in a vision.In contrast, Jesus told Martha that listening to him teach was more important than preparing food for him and making him comfortable (Luke 10: 39-42). In Islam it appears that preparing food for the man and making him comfortable is more important for the Muslim woman than her other acts of submission to Allah. Okay, let’s get back to rewards. This is the contract between Allah and all Muslims: Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement. (Shakir, Surah 9: 111) The Quran states that the Muslims sold their lives to Allah to “have the garden.” So, let us stop lying to ourselves and face the truth: the hajj, the jihad, the fasting, the killing, the bombing of rival mosques and sacred places is all about the garden and what it contains. So how is it that on getting to the garden the rewards are not equally distributed among the sexes? I don’t understand how the reward can be different when the requirement for entering paradise is the same for both the Muslim man and woman. Islam emphasizes salvation by works—at least it says so every so often in the Qur’an. If justification is by works then these women have a right to equal expectation as the men. That means, if the justification of the woman’s soul is by her works here on earth, her reward is a debt owed her by Allah: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt” (Romans 4:4) The reward of work done is debt. And where a debt exists, the right to expect the right payment exists. Debt is built on a binding contract in which fair play is expected when the time to pay comes and the payer is not doing the payee a favor when the debt is paid. It is the payee’s right to be paid in full, and in accordance to what payment structure administration has determined for that particular job, irrespective of the gender of the person that performed it. Where the payment structure is deliberately set up to favor a particular gender in spite of the job done, the powers that be in that establishment have been found culpable for both salary and gender discrimination. Should Allah not be greater than such earthly foibles? I had thought the whole concept of paradise was to be delivered from the systems of a world that deliberately enslaved some to nourish the greed of others. How come some are walking away with seventy brides for a reward while others who did same job have nothing to show for it, and are sent back to the same situation in which they lived and died on earth? The man was already hers from earth why is returning her to him a reward to her? Where is the reward that some say is worth dying for? May be there is none for the Muslim woman—same old stuff just a different location. Paradise indeed! But if it can be proven that, unlike her male counterpart, the Muslim woman did not merit paradise (if she did not work hard enough for it) and that Allah mercifully ferried her across the bridge between hell and paradise while the men went in exclusively on their good works, then the Muslim woman’s reward can be seen as grace and not debt. And in grace her right to expect equal reward is forfeited since grace is at the giver’s discretion: For to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5) So, my dear Muslim scholars, is Islam’s paradise earned by works done on earth, or it is by grace? If it is by work, why are the rewards not equal for men and women who fought their ways into paradise by the sweat of their brows, overcoming all the obstacles they faced on the bridge which Allah placed over hell? Or does it sound equal to you that two people run a race, one is offered seventy new brides (all virgins) and the other is sent back to her former husband? Let’s move on. Excerpt from I Speak for the Muslim Woman by James Paul-Magidi |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 7:09pm On Nov 08, 2011 |
@Sahih_JP: the goods for Islamic paradise are reserved for men and women. the men part is described as female [houris]. but there are men houris [the husbands], just like zauj is for male and female mates as husbands and wives in marriages, so is houri in paradise. if you expect how male partners are shaped and presented as in presence in paradise, Allah is not without His measured Perfection; He is the One Who knows what is appropriate, appropriately. A woman would not mind to hear the description of a female as being with best shape of facial features and elements and the rest of what you think makes a woman a really pretty woman. but a woman would not want to hear the male elements being described as donkey type and throws out like a horse [check out your bibles of the woman lusting after man in Egypt; almost a roman novel that you expect fabio to be posing for the cover. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by SahihJP: 7:48pm On Nov 08, 2011 |
Sweetnecta: Sweetnecta, Islam accepts the Quran, the Sunnahs and the Hadiths as its scriptures. Can you cite us a reference from the Quran or the hadith to support what you said about the possibility of male houris? We are waiting for the scriptures from which you got that notion. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 8:13pm On Nov 08, 2011 |
I think Sahih_JP does know that no man can sleep with more than one woman at a time. He should know that women can be extreme in sexuality that she sleeps with more than one man at a time. What Allah then describes of paradise is taking the case of man as the example and refrains the woman in my opinion that there will not be excess as some non muslim women go, ready for whatever as if in a bathhouse. Every wife is a houri, too for the husband. So is the every husband is a houri for the wife. Houri is not just the houri created and no man and jinn ever touched. A woman who goes to paradise without her earthly husband will have her own newly minted houri of a man/husband. Every man and woman who end up in paradise is a new creation and it is Allah's Mercy on husband and wife that they are reunited and reestablish what they used to have; making every time the first time feeling for them. Destination of either in Paradise or Hell is fundamentally based on Belief. after it, going to paradise is supported by work of good deeds; both true belief and work of righteous good deeds are elements of MERCY of Allah who made the free will of the believer leans towards proper Aqeedah and her [his] work something that benefit his/her soul. Your work alone without proper belief will earn you only praise, etc on earth and that is enough reward for not having the correct belief. Your correct belief is the primary ingredient, that will lead you to do good deeds for the pleasure of Allah, realizing that you are nothing, needing Him and appreciating the opportunity He gave you. Peter, your name sake who followed Jesus [as] must have proper belief in the mission of Jesus based on the Injil given to Jesus to preach to the Jews. Peter believed and did good work based on that belief. He will be different than the romans who did good work but did not belief and died on it during the time of Jesus. Since Jesus was not the last messenger to all men, just like Moses was not the last messenger to even the children of israel, we see that the true Paradise is Revealed in the Quran to mankind. You will agree that it is very rare to find many women wanting to have many husbands [more than one] at a time. If that is not even desired or carried out on earth, even by those freaky sexual pros [pros.titutes], why would you think that it will be desired in heavens? Did you forget that in the Lord's Prayer of Jesus, it is "done on earth as is done in heaven'', including sex at the end of the day, because Adam was the husband of Eve and sex is part of husband and wife relationship. But guess what, Jesus promised you christians [since he is your all in all] hundred folds of wives, if you left 1 for him, hundred folds of husbands if your wife left you for him. READ YOUR BIBLE DAILY. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 9:08pm On Nov 08, 2011 |
@Sahih_JP: « #34 on: Today at 07:48:44 PM » [Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 07:09:07 PM @Sahih_JP: the goods for Islamic paradise are reserved for men and women. the men part is described as female [houris]. but there are men houris [the husbands], just like zauj is for male and female mates as husbands and wives in marriages, so is houri in paradise. Sweetnecta, Islam accepts the Quran, the Sunnahs and the Hadiths as its scriptures. Can you cite us a reference from the Quran or the hadith to support what you said about the possibility of male houris? We are waiting for the scriptures from which you got that notion.[/Quote]You should have simply goggle this and see that it refers to both sexes. Question; Quran; houris in paradise is also man for the woman of paradise? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour [Chapter (Surah) Ad-Dukhan (The Smoke)(44):54] [Chapter (Surah) Ar-Rahman (The Most Beneficent(55):56] [Chapter (Surah) At-Tur (The Mount)(52):20] [Chapter (Surah) Al-Waqi'a (The Event)(56):34-36] There are also verses regarding both genders explicitly: God has promised the believers, both men and women (Lit., waalmuminoona (male believers) waalmuminatu (female believers), gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide, and goodly dwellings in gardens of perpetual bliss: but God's goodly acceptance is the greatest [bliss of all] -for this, this is the triumph supreme! [Chapter (Surah) At-Taubah (The Repentance) (9):72] As for anyone - be it man or woman [Lit., min (from) thakarin (male) aw (or) ontha (female)][16:97] - who does righteous deeds, and is a believer withal - him shall We most certainly cause to live a good life, and most certainly shall We grant unto such as these their reward in accordance with the best that they ever did. [Chapter (Surah) An-Nahl (The Bee) (16):97 A verse regarding other companionship: “And, O our Sustainer, bring them into the gardens of perpetual bliss which Thou hast promised them, together with the righteous from among their forebears, and their spouses, and their offspring - for, verily, Thou alone art almighty, truly wise [Chapter (Surah) Ghafir (The Forgiver)(40):8] |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 2:48pm On Nov 09, 2011 |
. . . Two questions arise: 1- Why does the Qur'an describe the Hur at length but never frankly names them by their genus (jins), "women"? . . . . . . 2- Why would the Qur'an frequently mention a sexual reward specific to men in Paradise and never its equivalent for women? . . . www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e18.html . . . The least one should say is that Allah Most High is perfectly able to reward the men among the faithful with chaste maidens of great beauty in Paradise, just as explicited in the texts and without divestment of meaning; and Allah Most High is perfectly able to reward the women among the faithful with a perfect equivalent left unnamed out of regard for the greater modesty of women . . . . . . . Saabirah [N N] wrote in a message [Concerning] the subject of "houris" as you have defined the term. Surat al-Waqi'ah, ayaat 22 and 23: "And [with them will be their] companions pure, most beautiful of eye, (23) like unto pearls still hidden in their shells." I again refer to Muhammad Asad's notes on these ayaat. "The noun "hur" -- rendered by me as "companions pure" -- is a plural of both ahwar (masc.) and hawra (fem.), either of which describes "a person distinguished by "hawar", which latter term primarily denotes "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the iris" (Qamus) . . . www.paklinks.com/gs/, /42181-houri-has-no-specific-gender.html . . . 3. Meaning of Hoor The word hoor is actually the plural of ahwar (applicable to man) and of haura (applicable to woman) and signifies a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul, male or female in paradise and it denotes the intense whiteness of the white part of the spiritual eye. . . . . . 4. Women will get something exceptional in Paradise Many scholars say that in context, the word hoor used in the Quran refers only to ladies since gents are addressed. A reply that would be accepted by all types of people would rather be the answer given in the Hadith when a similar question was posed that if a man gets a hoor, a beautiful Maiden in Paradise, then what will the women get? The reply was that the women will get that which the heart has not desired for, the ear hasn’t heard off and the eye hasn’t seen, indicating that even the women will get something exceptional in Paradise. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by SahihJP: 5:34pm On Nov 09, 2011 |
I think Sahih_JP does know that no man can sleep with more than one woman at a time. I beg to defer. I have heard of strange things not fit for a lady's ears. We live in a corrupt word, and just because you and I have reposed ourselves on teachings that demand that we eschew evil and choose what is right does not mean that the rest of the world have the restrictions to which you allude. What Allah then describes of paradise is taking the case of man as the example and refrains the woman in my opinion It is good to have an opinion. However, Islamic ideologies cannot be based on Muslim's opinion. Allah has not called you to express your opinion but to submit to his word. Every wife is a houri, too for the husband. So is the every husband is a houri for the wife. Houri is not just the houri created and no man and jinn ever touched. A woman who goes to paradise without her earthly husband will have her own newly minted houri of a man/husband. The definition and the portrayal of the houris is always female: Houris (Ar. hawra' or huriyyah pl. hur). The female companions, perpetual virgins, of the saved in paradise. They are the symbols of spiritual states of rapture. (Koran 2:23; 3: 14; 4: 60). (Glasse, Cyril. T[i]he New Encyclopedia of Islam[/i]. NY. Alta Mira P, 2002.) The encyclopedia of Islam defines the houris as females. “whom no man or jinn has opened their[b] hymens[/b] with intimate intercourse before” (Sura 55:70-77), Men have no hymen. “Therein gardens will be fair wives good and beautiful; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny? Houris restrained in pavilions; (Sura 55: 72) The restrain talked about in this sura speaks of a form of purdah or separation which Allah did not prescribe for males. So if they are male houris they cannot be restrained in pavilions. Allah has not prescribe purdah for the male. Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The first batch (of people) who will enter Paradise will be (glittering) like a full moon; and those who will enter next will be (glittering) like the brightest star. Their hearts will be as if the heart of a single man, for they will have no enmity amongst themselves, and everyone of them shall have [b]two wives, each of whom will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the flesh. [/b]They will be glorifying Allah in the morning and evening, and will never fall ill, and they will neither blow their noses, nor spit. Their utensils will be of gold and silver, and their combs will be of gold, and the fuel used in their centers will be the aloes-wood, and their sweat will smell like musk." (Sahih Bukhari 4.54.469) The houris are the beautiful, pure and transparent ladies of paradise. Sahih Bukhari recognized them as wives in this hadith and makes no reference to husbands amongst them. The same line of thought is repeated in yet another hadith by Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 476: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The first batch (of people) who will enter Paradise will be (glittering) like the full moon, and the batch next to them will be (glittering) like the most brilliant star in the sky. Their hearts will be as if the heart of a single man, for they will have neither enmity nor jealousy amongst themselves; everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh." (Sahih Bukhari 4.54.476) Abu Huraira who narrated this hadith was closer to Islam and the prophet of Allah more than any modern Islamic cleric or scholar alive, since Huraira was a companion of the prophet. Yet Huraira never mentioned husbands amongst the houris. The doctrine must have cropped up after the founding fathers of Islam passed on. "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: ‘The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives (houris), over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]’." [Tafsir Ibn Kathir] Ibn Kathir's version of paradise increased the number of houris to 72. He said all 72 would be wives. He too never recalled hearing of male houris who would be husbands to Muslim women. I have an interesting article to share with you in my next post, if you would but bear with me. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by maclatunji: 8:40am On Nov 11, 2011 |
So you think turning out to be a Houri is bad for women at the end of it all? You might also want to contest why God created Adam first and not Eve. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by SahihJP: 9:29am On Nov 11, 2011 |
maclatunji: Hi Mac, Could you please rephrase your first question? because it seems you are of the opinion that women will become houris. Is that the drift? I want to be sure I understand you. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by maclatunji: 9:42am On Nov 11, 2011 |
Sahih_JP: Exactly, by the way are you a Muslim? Are you male or female? |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by olawalebabs(m): 10:21am On Nov 11, 2011 |
JP and frosbel, my question is still left un answer, check the first page. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by SahihJP: 11:09am On Nov 11, 2011 |
olawalebab: I saw those questions, but felt you addressed them to a remark made a specific contributor. May be that person should clarify what prompted you to raise those questions. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by olawalebabs(m): 11:15am On Nov 11, 2011 |
no problem, waiting for him before i bring in my view on the matter |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by vedaxcool(m): 12:39pm On Nov 11, 2011 |
the spambot is hiding my response, waiting for it to restored, I will like to share this verse He it is who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.(Sura 3:7[1]) |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 1:34pm On Nov 11, 2011 |
@Sahih_JP: « #38 on: November 09, 2011, 05:34 PM » [Quote]Quote I think Sahih_JP does know that no man can sleep with more than one woman at a time. I beg to defer. I have heard of strange things not fit for a lady's ears. We live in a corrupt word, and just because you and I have reposed ourselves on teachings that demand that we eschew evil and choose what is right does not mean that the rest of the world have the restrictions to which you allude.[/Quote]every man has one equipment that he can use for the woman. A woman must be in from of the man to be able to use the equipment. The case of the woman is different. The man does not have to be in front of her for her to get the equipment. And she can get the equipment in many ways including orally. You see the different. For you to say that you eschew evil, but denies what Jesus himself about se.x in heaven just because you can see it clearly in Islam is disingenuous to say the least. If Muslim man has houris and the muslim woman don't have any, at least she has her husband, still, while 100 folds of wives will replace the 1 wife that the Christian man left for Jesus. Ironically, the woman may not have any husband while the man had 100 folds, or does the woman who left 1 husband now gets 100 folds, too? The immorality of this is that it encourages divorce, while the Islam destination does not in this world. [Quote]Quote What Allah then describes of paradise is taking the case of man as the example and refrains the woman in my opinion It is good to have an opinion. However, Islamic ideologies cannot be based on Muslim's opinion. Allah has not called you to express your opinion but to submit to his word.[/Quote]Opinion is a humble way, islamically of saying I know, because after all we write "Allah Knows Best". We are not arrogant and there is no pride in our statement. In support of true opinion of muslim, as i have used it, Allah says of the people and their dog in the refuge of the cave in Surah Kahf [Allah knows and people grounded in knowledge], to show that as long as the statement from man is drawn from and in agreement with the Quran. A man who marries 1 wife is correct, just as the one with 2 wives, or the one with 3 wives and the one with 4 wives, but not the one with 1 plus 2 plus 3 plus 4 or the one with 2 times 3 times 4 plus or minus 1 wives or 2 to power 3 to power 4 plus or minus 1 wives. Further Allah has blessed the muslim community with mercy to be able to think and come up with statement that does not disagree with the Quran and the way of the messenger [as]. What Allah gave to Muhammad [as] specifically without anyone else having that privilege is/are known. And when Allah says it is not fitting for believers to have an opinion when Allah and his messenger [as] have decreed a thing, it simply means no opinion that is not accordant to what has been decreed. Allah says worship Him at night. A worshiper may do it 30 minutes before fajr, while another does it for 2 hours; both of them have opinions, though differ, but agree within the framework of the command to worship after midnight. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 3:25pm On Nov 11, 2011 |
[Quote]Quote Every wife is a houri, too for the husband. So is the every husband is a houri for the wife. Houri is not just the houri created and no man and jinn ever touched. A woman who goes to paradise without her earthly husband will have her own newly minted houri of a man/husband. The definition and the portrayal of the houris is always female: Houris (Ar. hawra' or huriyyah pl. hur). The female companions, perpetual virgins, of the saved in paradise. They are the symbols of spiritual states of rapture. (Koran 2:23; 3: 14; 4: 60). (Glasse, Cyril. The New Encyclopedia of Islam. NY. Alta Mira P, 2002.) The encyclopedia of Islam defines the houris as females. “whom no man or jinn has opened their hymens with intimate intercourse before” (Sura 55:70-77), Men have no hymen. “Therein gardens will be fair wives good and beautiful; Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you deny? Houris restrained in pavilions; (Sura 55: 72) The restrain talked about in this sura speaks of a form of purdah or separation which Allah did not prescribe for males. So if they are male houris they cannot be restrained in pavilions. Allah has not prescribe purdah for the male. [/Quote]Nothing in Chapters 2 through 4 speaks about Houris. As a matter of fact, if we use the ruling of marriage on earth as point of reference, we see that a woman is supposed to be a pubescence to qualify for marriage, because the word balagha means reaching age of puberty. What do you think is the minimum age for male to get married, less than puberty or same as female? But man is not even mentioned regarding minimum age. If the issue of marriage is equal, how is the issue of relationship in paradise going to be different, except that paradise is a life of ease? Verse 70 of Surah 55 said women, not other verses mention women or hymen. Its a shame that this is amplified while you want to sweep 100 folds under the rug. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 3:41pm On Nov 11, 2011 |
[Quote]Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The first batch (of people) who will enter Paradise will be (glittering) like a full moon; and those who will enter next will be (glittering) like the brightest star. Their hearts will be as if the heart of a single man, for they will have no enmity amongst themselves, and everyone of them shall have two wives, each of whom will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the flesh. They will be glorifying Allah in the morning and evening, and will never fall ill, and they will neither blow their noses, nor spit. Their utensils will be of gold and silver, and their combs will be of gold, and the fuel used in their centers will be the aloes-wood, and their sweat will smell like musk." (Sahih Bukhari 4.54.469) The houris are the beautiful, pure and transparent ladies of paradise. Sahih Bukhari recognized them as wives in this hadith and makes no reference to husbands amongst them. The same line of thought is repeated in yet another hadith by Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 476: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The first batch (of people) who will enter Paradise will be (glittering) like the full moon, and the batch next to them will be (glittering) like the most brilliant star in the sky. Their hearts will be as if the heart of a single man, for they will have neither enmity nor jealousy amongst themselves; everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh." (Sahih Bukhari 4.54.476) Abu Huraira who narrated this hadith was closer to Islam and the prophet of Allah more than any modern Islamic cleric or scholar alive, since Huraira was a companion of the prophet. Yet Huraira never mentioned husbands amongst the houris. The doctrine must have cropped up after the founding fathers of Islam passed on.[/Quote]Founding fathers of Islam includes Adam, Enoch, Noah, Ibrahim the father of true faith {as to all], etc and then it is completed on Muhammad [as], in the company of his companions [as]. It is true that the companions are closer to the messenger. But the messenger [as] knowing that knowledge is unlimited to his generation stated in his last sermon that the companions should spread what he said, that day and definitely Islam around the world, because those who were not there on that greatest hajj may hear in later generations, like right now, and understand what was said that day, even in more finite details. For example, it has be discovered now the time of Fajr in a big city like New York, without having to gaze at the mountain that is not there in the middle of no where with the neon light lightening up the places, including the sky. This discovery saves a fasting person from having to erroneously put a black thread and white thread together, without the other variables considered, including thickness and the intensity of the whiteness or blackness of the threads. You see the benefit of knowledge, allowing us to know that when a man says women, the woman will definitely say men when she repeats the same statement. Or there will not be any woman in Islamic paradise, since you are the spoke man for them? [Quote]"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: ‘The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives (houris), over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]’." [Tafsir Ibn Kathir] Ibn Kathir's version of paradise increased the number of houris to 72. He said all 72 would be wives. He too never recalled hearing of male houris who would be husbands to Muslim women.[/Quote]I will be a houri to my wife, because I am her Zauj, right now. If she wants 72 of me, then Allah will provide me to be her 72. Ise/ [the amin of bini people].Allah is capable. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by JPSahih: 5:53pm On Nov 11, 2011 |
@Sweetnecta [size=14pt]Read what a fellow Muslim wrote and tell me if he shares your belief that there are male houris. Go through his entire article and tell me one surah or hadith that support your view of houris as men or husbands. Since mere mortals can't get the message across to you, I have decided to invite a Muslim scholar to try.[/size] I will be a houri to my wife, because I am her Zauj, right now. If she wants 72 of me, then Allah will provide me to be her 72. Ise/ [the amin of bini people].Allah is capable. [/qoute] |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 2:11am On Nov 12, 2011 |
@Sahih_JP: « #51 on: Yesterday at 05:53:08 PM » [Quote]@Sweetnecta Read what a fellow Muslim wrote and tell me if he shares your belief that there are male houris. Go through his entire article and tell me one surah or hadith that support your view of houris as men or husbands. Since mere mortals can't get the message across to you, I have decided to invite a Muslim scholar to try.[/Quote]Islamic scholars are mere mortals. Muhammad, Jesus, etc, etc, etc [as] were mere mortals. Muslim scholars can make mistakes. No one is perfect, because some details of the Quran is not known to any "mere mortal". Do you know the meaning of Alif in Surah Baqarah's first verse? Father of Ibrahim was mentioned as Azhar. Some scholars denied that very statement, so when you bring up this "Islamic Scholar", I have the right to reject his statement or opinion. The only one among men I can disagree with or doubt his statement, was Muhammad [as]. Houris, for man. There must be for woman, something Allah has kept for them specially that no eye have seen. Is that not the man, since the eyes have not seen woman houris before? |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by SahihJP: 7:39am On Nov 12, 2011 |
Islamic scholars are mere mortals. Muhammad, Jesus, etc, etc, etc [as] were mere mortals. I respect your right to disagree with other Muslim scholars, and the issue of male and female houris is suspended on the ground that not all Muslims agree on it. I believe you meant [b]agree with in the quotation above. I do have more to say on what you just said, but not on this thread. You know where to find me. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by Sweetnecta: 8:46am On Nov 12, 2011 |
thank you JP, since you are not really "SAHIH", for saying agree, but cant/can not disagree is what I wanted to pen. It is the more accurate, since i am not always disagreeing with "muslims', scholar or not. I will not even disagree with you, necessarily because you are not a muslim, but your lack of truth is why i am disagreeing with you. you can quote all the 'hadith' you want, the truth remains; your God, is One and His Personal Name is Allah. And Muhammad [as], is the Messenger of your time, the one you must seek your ultimate salvation from what he was given, while Jesus [as] was a Messenger of his time, yesterday. Men and women will be rewarded, in Mercy with what they will be rewarded with of sex.ual benefit with their mates in a fully saturated manner, when they are in Jannah. Men and women will punished with what they will be punished with in Hell, without the men getting more punishment because of being of male gender, while women get less punished. Think about this situation in Hell because there is no Mercy by Justice which brings in the Punishment. Tell your friend the scholar, that a mere muslim says, if his exegesis was in sincere scholarship, he will at least get a full reward for effort, regardless of being wrong and if he is correct, he will get twice the reward, one for effort, and the other for correct understanding. Hell is the opposite of Paradise. If women and men are punished fully without saying men should be punished in this aspect or that because he is equipped differently from man, though the crime [say se.xuality] was the same, then one will expect and should know by this that reward in Paradise of sex.ual abstinent shall be the same. Will male or female of paradise have the jealousy or envy in them? Of course not. The human quality in Paradise is different and completely superior. |
Re: I Speak For The Muslim Woman by vedaxcool(m): 4:10pm On Nov 12, 2011 |
Sadly the spambot has not released my response any way this addresses the whole issue: The answer is based on the general meaning of the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Therein you shall have (all) that your inner‑selves desire, and therein you shall have (all) for which you ask” [Fussilat 41:31] “(there will be) therein all that inner‑selves could desire, and all that eyes could delight in and you will abide therein forever” [al-Zukhruf 43:71] So if a woman is one of the people of Paradise and she did not get married, or if her husband is not one of the people of Paradise, when she enters Paradise there will be men who did not get married, and those men will have wives from among the hur al-‘iyn and wives from among the people of this world if they wish. Similarly with regard to the woman who did not have a husband, or who had a husband in this world but he did not enter Paradise with her, if she wants to get married then she will inevitably have what she desires, because of the general meaning of these verses. hence these verses provides for women in all ramifications. and Jerusalem pilgrim you would like to read the part of the Qur'an that says those admitted to heaven would have all evil thoughts purified from them, hence I bet My wive would not feel Jealousy sharing her husband in addition, the issue of 72 wives is misleading the hadiths appeared to be addressing matrys not every muslims, and according to certain scholars the hadith is not sound. in any case i find it less than the 100 wives Jesus promised you for leaving one, at least the hadith did not require Muslims to leave your wives for 100 |
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