Judek2:

Stop posing your ignorance here. .

We no longer folow the Laws of Moses, muslims do because you are built on the Bibles old tastaments. Which is mainly to suit the old times of wars and survival. .

Jesus told the people that
"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,"
Jesus knew that the law will no longer suit the centuries after the old Prophets. Things has to change.
ofcoarse, Jesus did not come to abolish the law,but to fulfil it,to fulfill things written about him and to make an everlasting covenant with us. .

We follow our Lord Jesus Christ, and no more those old,silly and inhumane laws.

The wicked people like muslims follow the old laws,and thats why they are so intolerant and inhumane even on this century of less war and succesion. .

Only the teachings of Jesus can change you people.

Really! SO TELL ME, IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS OF MOSES, HOW DO YOU JUDGE THE MURDERER, despoiler, ARMED ROBBER, FORNICATOR; HOW DO YOU SETTLE DISPUTE OF INHERITANCE, MARRIAGE, DIVORCE, CIRCUMCISION, BURIAL RIGHTS, NAMING CEREMONY, BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS, TITHES TO THE CHURCH  , ETC, because YOU CAN'T FIND LAWS CONCERNING ALL THESE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

ivoice247:

Really! SO TELL ME, IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS OF MOSES, HOW DO YOU JUDGE THE MURDERER, despoiler, ARMED ROBBER, FORNICATOR; HOW DO YOU SETTLE DISPUTE OF INHERITANCE, MARRIAGE, DIVORCE, CIRCUMCISION, BURIAL RIGHTS, NAMING CEREMONY, BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS, TITHES TO THE CHURCH  , ETC, because YOU CAN'T FIND LAWS CONCERNING ALL THESE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

ivoice247:

Muslims follow the law of Allah (GOD) which is was the same law given to Moses(as) before the jewish rabbis corrupted it and GOD then revealed the laws again to Muhammed(saw) in the quran.  And Moses (as) did not write their laws, it descended to him from God in the form of taurah (i.e. testament)

ivoice247:

Islam has laws pertaining to everything i mentioned above and much more. This is why ISLAM is the only religion acceptable by GOD. Christianity and Judaism will be rejected by God on judgement Day because you all follow your desires and not your prophets. And the quran states;-

And whoever seeks a religion other than islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers .
(  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #85)

davidylan:

We follow the laws of grace sir. That much is made clear in the new testament. If in doubt please read the book of Hebrews.

So according to apostle paul, a christian is only under the law of grace as long as he's obeying God (slave to obedience), So this still leaves my question unanswered;- WHICH LAW DO YOU USE TO PUNISH THE MURDERER, RAPIST, FORNICATOR ETC ETC or is a murderer living under the law of grace too ?

davidylan:

if this is true then why is allah eager to dispatch to the great beyond those who reject islam? Why cant he just wait to put them in hell later anyway?

ivoice247:

Being under the law of grace does not absolve you from punishment if you sin. According to your apostle paul from the book of romans 6:14-16;-

For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

So according to apostle paul, a christian is only under the law of grace as long as he's obeying God (slave to obedience), So this still leaves my question unanswered;- WHICH LAW DO YOU USE TO PUNISH THE MURDERER, despoiler, FORNICATOR ETC ETC or is a murderer living under the law of grace too ?

ivoice247:

Allah is not eager to dispatch anyone. In fact, the quran states that no one should force another person into religion as truth stands clearly from falsehood:-

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut (false deities, false religion, etc) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
(  سورة البقرة  , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #256)

davidylan:

You are absolutely correct that being under grace does not absolve you of sin. Like you rightly pointed out in this very clear verse, you have a choice to make . . . obedience unto righteousness and eternal life or sin unto death. Its your choice.

The huge difference here now under grace is that the murderer is not subject to direct punishment from the body of Christ. The murderer will face the consequence of his own choice after death (spiritual death in hell), it is not my portion to go walking around with a stick to beat the him or the fornicator. The secular laws of society will do their job.

davidylan:


Dont you get tired of this apparent hypocrisy?

ivoice247:

[color=#990000]

There are many so called muslims that are hypocrites, but truly islam has no iota of hypocrisy. I hear some so called muslims in the northern part of Nigeria force religion on non-muslims but that doesn't mean that's what the quran preaches. It's just like saying; because some pastors & priests supported gay marriages in america and europe, that means christianity and the bible supports it, NO!

ivoice247:

Really! SO TELL ME, IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS OF MOSES, HOW DO YOU JUDGE THE MURDERER, despoiler, ARMED ROBBER, FORNICATOR; HOW DO YOU SETTLE DISPUTE OF [b]INHERITANCE, MARRIAGE, DIVORCE, CIRCUMCISION, BURIAL RIGHTS, NAMING CEREMONY, BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS, TITHES TO THE CHURCH  , ETC, because YOU CAN'T FIND LAWS CONCERNING ALL THESE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT[/b]

Muslims follow the law of Allah (GOD) which is was the same law given to Moses(as) before the jewish rabbis corrupted it and GOD then revealed the laws again to Muhammed(saw) in the quran. 

And Moses (as) did not write their laws, it descended to him from God in the form of taurah (i.e. testament)

All God's law include judgement during war and also peace. There'll always be war and peace, just as there's good and evil; paradise and hell.

Islam has laws pertaining to everything i mentioned above and much more. This is why ISLAM is the only religion acceptable by GOD.Christianity and Judaism will be rejected by God on judgement Day because you all follow your desires and not your prophets. And the quran states;-

God is not a politician, maybe your Allah is.

And whoever seeks a religion other than islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers .
(  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #85)

Judek2:

That is why Islam is centered oe Political. Islam is more political than religion.
In the aspect of life, religion should be a link to spiritual life and not dirty political,cos political can not go hand in hand with religion.

So did Mohammad come as a prophet or as a political leader?

please,provide me a sound proof of how this wonderful book revealed to a wonderful man who was sinless all through his life,and was even taken up alive(according to ya novel),has been corrupted by men. And why it took Allah about 6000 years to realised that his holy book has be corrupted,thereby revealing another to a sinful and lustful man who only have to spread the faith with by war and force.

The law of Moses was written by Moses, but the commandments was revealed. That s why Jesus based his teachings on the commandments,and not Moses written laws.


If the world follow the commandments, there will be no wars atall. So as we neglet his commandments, he gave us the knowledge and wisdom to provide the laws to suit ourselves ourselves

But if you follow him,you can never be under the man made law.

Thats what your Allah say, quite interesting.

That sentence is just like the word of a hungry and desperate, deranged man who needs victims,and jealous of others.

Prophet Muhammed(saw) was a prophet, just like Jesus (as), david (as) and moses (as). Religion is totality of Life that covers both spiritual (relationship with God) and physical (relationship with ourselves either politically or civil). And this is evident in the commandments revealed to Moses(as) and in many verses in the old testament and psalms by David

oh, so many verses in the bible is corrupted that you can't be sure which verse is giving a true account. For example, who's the father of Jesus?:-
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

How many stalls and horsemen did solomon(as) have?

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had (1) forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had (2) four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed
in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Sweetnecta:

@Judek2: In reality you have demonstrated that each verse gave partial answer and it took the 2 to truly have an answer.

Please demonstrate to me therefore how God of all was to Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, all the way to even John the son of Zacharias is 1 God and Lord, even to Jesus and suddenly after this this very Lord God became 3 of which the dead Jesus is 1 of it, the non speaking ghost is another and the always sitting on the throne Jehovah is another.

Was virgin mary's impregnation human or ghostly?

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would
raise up Christ to sit on his throne

[b]MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Sweetnecta:

^ The joke is on you because I cant see below.

Judek2:

Moses was a Prophet, and the leader of the Isrealites. He made the law for them and also recieved the divine law from God (the ten commandments). The ten commandments has already covered both the spiritual and physical lives,but as human beings,they will always disobey,so he made the law to guide them. So he could be viewed as both ruler and religious leader.

David was a Prophet,agreed. But he was a King also.
He ruled the people mainly according to Mosaic law,so he was a King and a Prophet.

Jesus did not come as a king or ruler in this world,but as an everlasting covenant of God,and to lead people to God. He is a King in the sense that his kingdom is in Heaven and not on Earth. So he cared not on the earthly laws but Gods law which is the commandments. And so he never interfared on their law which Moses gave them.

Mohammad was neither a King nor a Leader, he made himself a Prophet,and as he got stronger, he extended in making laws on people to suit and promote his religion. In view of this, Islam should now be likened more to politics rather than religion, and Islam as a stand of some states politics contradicts a religion of divine link to God. Laws upon laws cannot be divine.

And note, Jesus is the Word of God,as always prophesied by David,and also the Lord of David by David himself,and God. .
Mohammad has succeeded in making him equal to the Prophets and in turn equal to him (Mohammad) or even less in the minds of Muslims. So he is an Anti-Christ.

1:16 Jacob begat Joseph.
The descendant of a long line of kings was a poor carpenter of Nazareth. As the husband of Mary he was the legal father of Jesus, and Matthew gives his line of descent.
A comparison of the table given by Luke will show that it differs in part from that of Matthew. Between David and Joseph the lists are widely different.

Several views, all possible, have been presented, but the most probable explanation is that Matthew gives the line of Joseph, the legal line, and that Luke gives the line of Mary, the mother of our Lord.

As the Jews regarded only male descent, unless Joseph, the supposed father, was a descendant of David they would not have recognized the genealogy as a fulfillment of the prophecies that Christ should be the Son of David; while Luke, himself a Gentile and writing for Gentiles, was more particular to give the line that shows that Jesus is really the Son of David. If Mary was the daughter of Heli, especially if an heiress, Joseph, by marriage, would become the son of Heli.
That there is no
contradiction between the two tables is shown by the fact that the Jews who best understood
their genealogies never charged it.

Typical! copy and paste article just like most christians do all over the internet. Because you don't understand your bible, you quickly copy and paste any explanation you see on the internet to buttress a point regardless of whether the article makes sense or not, that's why you cannot backup your responses with any biblical verses to. But i'll help you with that now:-   

Secondly, the "comparison table" this writer is talking about can be found in the bk of Luke & Mark showing the Descendants of David. Therefore, if the writer claims that Heli is Mary's Father then what you're saying is that Mary is a descendant of David 

Judek2:


Firstly, there is no contradiction of how many horsemen there
were. Both 1 Kings 4 and 2 Chronicles 9 state, ", and twelve
thousand horsemen, "

Concerning the number of stalls, You  did not read the text closely enough. It would seem that in 1 Kings, we are told how many horses Solomon had for his chariots --- 40,000 horses.

In 2 Chronicles, we are told how many stalls he had in which to keep his horses and chariots ---
4,000 stalls.

Estimately,it is viewed that he has 4,000 stalls,and 40,000 horses.
Thus, he had 4,000 stalls, 10 horses in each stall, totalling 40,000 horses.
There is no contradiction.

Judek2:

This is the most hillarious of all your posts. Maybe without trying to find out first of what the whole verse is talking about.

The whole verse was speaking about David.
Lets read from verse 29.
ACTS 2:29.
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
30: Therefore being a Prophet, and knowing that [b]God had sworn with an oath to him,that of the fruit of his loins,[/b]according to the flesh, he will raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

The bolded could be traced to God's promise to David in Psalm 132:11.

So, through David's descendants and sons,(of the fruits of his loins), Christ was born.
Yes, Christ was a descendant of David as he fullfiled the old prophecy about him from the small town of Judah, a King shall be born.

So,you proberbly misplaced David with Joseph and you are totally wrong. .

Typical! copy and paste article just like most christians do all over the internet. Because you don't understand your bible, you quickly copy and paste any explanation you see on the internet to buttress a point regardless of whether the article makes sense or not, that's why you cannot backup your responses with any biblical verses to. But i'll help you with that now:-   

Firstly, there's no where in the entire bible that states Heli as the mother nor father of Mary. The writer of this copy and paste article is just making an assumption.   

Post a verse from the bible to prove me wrong

Secondly, the "comparison table" this writer is talking about can be found in the bk of Luke & Mark showing the Descendants of David. Therefore, if the writer claims that Heli is Mary's Father then what you're saying is that Mary is a descendant of David 

If so, give me quotes from the bible to buttress your point

ivoice247:

Typical! copy and paste article just like most christians do all over the internet. Because you don't understand your bible, you quickly copy and paste any explanation you see on the internet to buttress a point regardless of whether the article makes sense or not, that's why you cannot backup your responses with any biblical verses to. But i'll help you with that now:-   

dear judek2, please stop deviating from the discussion and lets back our answers with evidence from the bible OR
quran. ok

The discussion here according to your previous posts is whether the law of moses was man-made
or from GOD? According to the bible, the law of moses (which includes law pertaining to politics, social & civil) was from GOD, as also the 10 commandments was from GOD too. And my proof is from the book of Malachi Ch 4 v4;- Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I [God] commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

davidylan:

Is this individual serious at all? Copy paste is characteristic of christians? What a joke. Has he seen the majority of muslim threads here that are simply copy paste of articles from muslim web sites? Is he equally worried about the number of times muslims MUST copy from a webpage just to explain a simple matter in the quran?

Judek2:


That verse is specifically speaking of the 10 commandments in mounth Sinai,or Horeb.

The Law of Moses is divine,afterall, its through Gods wisdom that he wrote it. But there is one thing,

The law of Moses,and the law of God which is the ten commandments.
Moses did not write the ten commandments,it was fully the hand of God,but he wrote the Law as a constitution to guide the people, if they fail the Commandments.

Jesus wasnt under the law of Moses,because, though it was divine knowledge, its just like a constitution,to be compared to a states law. But he was always under the Law of God,which is the ten commandments,thats why Christians no longer follow the Mosaic law,but Gods law(10 commandments).

This is what Jesus said about the Law of Moses. :
"It was in consideration of your stubborn hearts," said Jesus, "that Moses enacted this law for you;

The law of God is in our hearts,and we dont follow any written law for God,our concience,strong faith,and the Holy spirit is our law.

I also want to touch that verse you presented for knowledge and Prophesy sake.
Malachi was the last of the old Prophets, he made prophesy for a new covenant and in vs 4, urged them to keep the commandments of God,and prophesied about John the baptist and Jesus Christ in vs 5 and 6 of that chapter,which ended the old prophesies.

ivoice247:

Lets stick to the discussion. ok

ivoice247:

Yes, i too agree that the law of moses(as) is divine and an inspiration of GOD. I also agree that moses did not write the 10 commandments.

ivoice247:

I disagree with you on the above. Jesus(as) was also under the law of prophet moses and not just under the commandments, as the verses i quoted below will prove. According to the book of Mathew 5;17-18 (New Living Translation Bible)

ivoice247:

"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

ivoice247:

Dear Judek2, any counter-response you make should pls be backed up with evidences from the bible. thanks

ivoice247:

Yes, i too agree that the law of moses(as) is divine and an inspiration of GOD. I also agree that moses did not write the 10 commandments.

I disagree with you on the above.  Jesus(as) was also under the law of prophet moses and not just under the commandments, as the verses i quoted below will prove. According to the book of Mathew 5;17-18 (New Living Translation Bible)

"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

Dear Judek2, any counter-response you make should pls be backed up with evidences from the bible. thanks

Sweetnecta:

@Judek2: How did he fulfill and set fully the first commandment that God is 1, unseen when you christians take Jesus, a physically seen man as God, even Trinity; Jesus, Ghost and Yahweh?

So tell me how you will work the no graven image to agree with the cross?

if this is so that is the benefit of Another Comforter and even less Acts of apostles, the epistles, revelations, Paul?

He said I finished all that you send me to do at the dinner table, long before the alleged cross. It is finished on the cross is irrelevant to what God sent him to do, there for.

please keep in mind that Isiah never mentioned the word "Jesus", hence the read into it what you are reading into it is your own making and there is no evidence.

Show me the name Jesus here or do you think this does not better fit the another comforter who is the one that completed everything? Lets think about it.

But Paul abolished it? What do you thin about that now that you can eat pork?

And no evidence that Isiah was talking about Jesus here. Check it out. I want his name in black and white.

But you said Jesus didnt have any sin, why didnt he cast the lone stone to demonstrate this?