"Especially if they are legal". Now, which woman brought under the circumstances we have been discussing COULD POSSIBLY be legal? NONE. So I really don't know how you apply logic. I'm sure you are familiar with set theory. Use it.

logica:

"Especially if they are legal". Now, which woman brought under the circumstances we have been discussing COULD POSSIBLY be legal? NONE. So I really don't know how you apply logic. I'm sure you are familiar with set theory. Use it.

um . . . . .  I have not been following whatever discussions YOU have been engaged in. I simply responded to @Stillwater's post on the condition of female hookers. It is my understanding that not all of them are illegals. Unless you can show us all that they all are.

Also, set theory does not allow you to MAKE STUFF up, that is why there are proofs attached to most claims. . . I am guessing you are trying to assume that LOGICALLY ALL INDENTURED slaves do not know their right. That is also NOT TRUE! Many a slave has been able to escape slavery by taking advantage of the law in the lands they find themselves.

Kobojunkie:

I am guessing you are trying to assume that LOGICALLY ALL INDENTURED slaves do not know their right.

No. I am saying ALL girls you find smuggled to Italy are not legal. That is one of the facts with which their handlers blackmail them into submission as a matter of fact. Comply or get deported and disgraced. Even if they have "valid" visas, you should know that visas obtained under fraudulent circumstances are to all intents and purposes invalid.

logica:

No. I am saying ALL girls you find smuggled to Italy are not legal. That is one of the facts with which their handlers blackmail them into submission as a matter of fact. Comply or get deported and disgraced. Even if they have "valid" visas, you should know that visas obtained under fraudulent circumstances are to all intents and purposes invalid.

Might I suggest you go back, re-read what I have posted so far to see how you are still making the same mistake I suggested you were to begin with . . . . here are some simple straights on what I have said so far . . . .

a) NOT all female Nigerian prostitutes in foreign countries are there illegally
b) Not all female Nigerians in foreign countries are there illegally
c) Not all female Nigerians abroad, even those who are legal, know to take advantage of the laws in the new lands they find themselves
d) Even smuggled girls(illegal slaves)can, in so many western states, use the law to in the land they find themselves to get away from their masters

Kobojunkie:

d) Even smuggled girls(illegal slaves)can, in so many western states, use the law to in the land they find themselves to get away from their masters

Jezuz. It's like a dog chasing its tail. We have gone full cycle back to this: how do you expect an ignorant girl to know the law?

logica:

Jezuz. It's like a dog chasing its tail. We have gone full cycle back to this: how do you expect an ignorant girl to know the law?

Just because YOU have chosen to think them all ignorant DOES NOT mean they are. There are numerous cases of smuggled girls escaping, and even helping send their masters to jail. You might want to do some research on that as there was a recent case here of that.

Open your mind to the fact that those you have willing concluded are ignorant for life, are likely all not. Mentioning over and over that they are ignorant DOES NOT imply that they really are. This is why I suggest you actually TALK TO them and most of all LISTEN TO WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY first, before jumping to conclusions on the individual.

Here's one to get you going

&s_trackval=GooglePM">http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=WT&p_theme=wt&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0FE165DC423F0322&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date&s_trackval=GooglePM

All men pay for sex, either directly in cash, or in-directly via a multitude of other ways, means and modalities.

Those women who do parlay the barter exchange of cash money for sex into professional careers need not be considered whores, but rather should be regarded as tenured pleasure advisers or carnal knowledge consultants, whose fees are customarily tendered in advance.

Kobojunkie:

Even smuggled girls(illegal slaves)can, in so many western states, use the law to in the land they find themselves to get away from their masters

u have a point
but most of these girls are trafficked from rural villages not law school.

besides, the main problem for these nigerians in italy seem to be a lack of employment opportunities.
even illiterate illegal mexicans in US can find work on farms or menial labor. the nigerians in d documentary seem to have their options limited to prostitution, drugs and crime.

Jenifa_:

u have a point
but most of these girls are trafficked from rural villages not law school.

besides, the main problem for these nigerians in italy seem to be a lack of employment opportunities.
even illiterate illegal mexicans in US can find work on farms or menial labor. the nigerians in d documentary seem to have their options limited to prostitution, drugs and crime.

Well, the few who have been able to beat the chains, were also trafficked from the villages. So I see no reason why more of them cannot them be informed on how the system works for them.

There are those who choose prostit-tution of their own volition. There isn't much one can do about those cases. However, even they need to ensure they take advantage of the system to prevent being mistreated in society for their choice.

I cannot for the life of me understand why any girl, illegal or none, would choose to remain a slave, simply because she is afraid of being unemployed.That does not compute . . . not at all.

So many Nigerian ashewo hustlers in Nigeria/ outside of niGERIA. Some do it for the enjoyment, some for the power, and some for survival.
Imagine some of them are even earning higher earnings  than successful doctors.


Nigerian men are also guilty, maybe even worse. If you frequent the ashewo joint and do diff ashewos in one day or daily, what does that make you?
Nigerian men changes partner frequently- womanizer/ player
Nigerian women changes partner frequently - ashewo
Different labels, same ish.


Prostitution is here to stay, leave it as is. if you want to decrease it, talk to your children. Leave other ppl's children to their asheworism, plz.

Kobojunkie:

Well, the few who have been able to beat the chains, were also trafficked from the villages. So I see no reason why more of them cannot them be informed on how the system works for them.

Look, the ones that escaped were HELPED; or just decided to take risks which could easily result in death; and then later got illuminated. Which was my point. You think they were just sitting in their darkened rooms in chains and suddenly had light-bulb moments? Immigration Law is not taught in obscure villages in Edo FYI.

I will also like to point out to you that prostitution even in countries where it is legal is controlled by criminal and brutal syndicates because it is very lucrative. A girl can't just skip along from no where and start hooking in street corners (even in the US); She will disappear very quickly and will be lucky if her body is ever found. That's what these girls face. Now add that to a huge dose of ignorance.

logica:

Look, the ones that escaped were HELPED; or just decided to take risks which could easily result in death; and then later got illuminated. Which was my point. You think they were just sitting in their darkened rooms in chains and suddenly had light-bulb moments? Immigration Law is not taught in obscure villages in Edo FYI.

I will also like to point out to you that prostitution even in countries where it is legal is controlled by criminal and brutal syndicates because it is very lucrative. A girl can't just skip along from no where and start hooking in street corners (even in the US); She will disappear very quickly and will be lucky if her body is ever found. That's what these girls face. Now add that to a huge dose of ignorance.

If you are UNWILLING to at least ensure you read the posts you pretend to respond to, and make sure you understand, maybe you should stop responding. Does anything in this world HAPPEN IN ISOLATION? Do things AUTOMAGICALLY change without one doing something at least to instigate it, or make sacrifices of one kind or another? Effort is required . . . no one has so far suggested it is not.

Kobojunkie:

I cannot for the life of me understand why any girl, illegal or none, would choose to remain a slave, simply because she is afraid of being unemployed.That does not compute . . . not at all.

I don't think the girls are as silly as you paint them. maybe for the luckier girl, a client might fall in love and marry her. or an italian family might take her in. but for most, the opportunity probably isn't there. they have to survive somehow abi. see how they all claim to be "hairdressers" whose hair are they dressing? I doubt there is much opportunity for gainful employment over there for most.
to me, they shouldn't even have been brought to italy in the first place.

the police ought to clamp down on the traffickers and pimps/ or mafia whatever they called them in the documentary. They are not doing enough at all.

logica:

And you think a girl brought into Italy illegally will have the confidence to go explore Italy? Even worse, you think a girl literally kept under lock and key except when she's dropped off around a corner actually is street-smart enough to know how to plot her escape? Just be grateful that you come from an enlightened background (my assumption). If you come from a background where ignorance is worn like a cloak, you need help; because you can't help yourself. Case closed.

How has my position changed (the same position you have been countering)? Again, be glad you are informed. See it as a privilege.

Jenifa_:

I don't think the girls are as silly as you paint them.

You see, when we are relatively comfy we begin to see the unfortunate as stu.pid.

As pointed out, some of these girls have been threatened with the death of their relatives if they manage to escape. OK, so you escape and you are granted asylum, what next? You think you and your family are safe?

They may have even witnessed the killing (or disappearance) of the "troublesome" ones amongst them, so how can they doubt the threat to their loved ones?

And if the syndicates are as cunning as some I've heard of, they may send baits to the girls to test them to see if they are willing to escape. Now how do you under the circumstances even identify a genuine help or a trip to your death (and disappearance)?

You may also want to wonder how in this present moment some people can still be conned into being taken away to Italy. It still boils down to ignorance (though a few may actually know what they are up against and may think they are sharp enough to find an escape route). Do not think everybody has access to Cable TV or read newspapers, talk less of Internet.

It's much more complicated than that.

Jenifa_:

I don't think the girls are as silly as you paint them. maybe for the luckier girl, a client might fall in love and marry her. or an italian family might take her in. but for most, the opportunity probably isn't there. they have to survive somehow abi. see how they all claim to be "hairdressers" whose hair are they dressing?

I didn't paint them silly. No, I believe everyone comes equipped with a full functioning brain. What I simply had there was in response to your post that some of them are afraid of being unemployed. My response simply was to point out that I do not believe it is sensible for any girl to choose slavery simply because she was afraid of being unemployed. Sure, there are those who would do exactly that but that does not mean it would make sense to me.

Survival is one thing. However, choosing to continue in slavery, after you have learnt of how dead-ended it really is, is another.

Jenifa_:
I doubt there is much opportunity for gainful employment over there for most.
to me, they shouldn't even have been brought to italy in the first place. the police ought to clamp down on the traffickers and pimps/ or mafia whatever they called them in the documentary. They are not doing enough at all.

While I agree that the authorities are not doing enough. I also place some of the blame on the girls  . . . .You would be surprised that even after so many years of our learning what befalls girls who allow themselves move abroad with some of the traffikers, we still have girls who plead ignorance and allow themselves be transported into this life still. I mean it is not like a huge number of them are actually kidnapped. Not the case at all.

Anywho, my original comment, in response to @Stillwater, was not directed solely at trafficked beings but at Nigerians in general. We need to learn to take more advantage of the law, and that way we can help educate others on what their rights are in the new world. It is then up to them to choose to use that information to get out of their situation, or accept their fate.

ashawo na work

aribisala0:

i do not have statistics and cannot comment on it with real certainty truth is i do NOT know. wht i do NOT know is a lot more than what i know.
from what you have written it is clear you think you know so much and really know very little on the subject
you even pronounce on who is in the majority.

no i  do not know  you but you talk with so much certainty about what you know so little.
no one said prostitution is not rampant it is rampant worldwide. everywhere
you say majority .how do you know did you do a census? that is what you want to believe
you are so sure and certain and it is clear you know so little. that is not an assumption it is manifest in everything you say. i am not out to show myself so i will not say anymore
exactly what you accuse me of doing(making assumptions) is what you do for this girls.

you are a  one. i am done with you. write a book if you like

i really don't care one way or another what you think on the subject,all i know of the subject is what i have written,in case you have forgotten you responded to my comment not the other way round .
you are entitled to your opinion however valid or flawed they might be ,same has mine if yo can't stomach other people having a contrary opinion to yours then you might very well go live on a deserted island.
i will strongly advise you not to place blanket assumptions on any subject whatsoever,it highlights one's ignorance on the particular subject

I just visited Benin-City.
Very impressed to see that the economy is being propelled by ashawo monies.
The level of poverty would have decimated the populace.
Kudos to the ashawos in the UK from Edo state. . . YOU MAKE ME PROUD!

Kobojunkie:


Anywho, my original comment, in response to @Stillwater, was not directed solely at trafficked beings but at Nigerians in general. We need to learn to take more advantage of the law, and that way we can help educate others on what their rights are in the new world. It is then up to them to choose to use that information to get out of their situation, or accept their fate.

are you an attorney?

seems like you will be a great candidate to start an NGO representing these girls.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-803797.0.html

My fellow Edo ladies. . .this could happen to you.
Stop patronizing Nigerian politicians.
Go to the UK to sell your arzzzz instead.
Avoid Bini men!

Judge not nd u shall not be judge! Who determines wat is right or wrong? Or wat is gud or bad? D only reason we av law is because ethics nd religion failed us! All r human inventions for peaceful co-existence.relativism/subjectivism teands to b d most reasonable reality.its ma life if I dnt hurt u den y giv a damn? U call it prostitution dey call it husttling,we'r all husttlers with diff methods.

BootyOnMe:

I just visited Benin-City.
Very impressed to see that the economy is being propelled by ashawo monies.
The level of poverty would have decimated the populace.
Kudos to the ashawos in the UK from Edo state. . . YOU MAKE ME PROUD!

bad image

i showed a nigerian work colleague who just arrived from italy this thread,and he couldn't stop laughing especially the part where some are making comments that the girls are being forced to prostitute against their will.
he said not only do the girls do it without any form of pressure,they jazz themselves up and charm mostly italian men who part with large sums of money as soon as they have slept with the girls, their parents prepare charms for them to use on their patrons and even other parents lobby for the established ones to take their daughter abroad to practice prostitution.

he actually got all this from a girl who was still actively in the business,he even catalogued how the craze to build four flats in nigeria drives most of those girls do some so many unprintable, anyone who thinks the girls are being forced needs to remove their rose tinted glasses and smell the coffee!!

lucabrasi:

i showed a nigerian work colleague who just arrived from italy this thread,and he couldn't stop laughing especially the part where some are making comments that the girls are being forced to LovePeddler against their will.
he said not only do the girls do it without any form of pressure,they jazz themselves up and charm mostly italian men who part with large sums of money as soon as they have slept with the girls, their parents prepare charms for them to use on their patrons and even other parents lobby for the established ones to take their daughter abroad to practice prostitution.

he actually got all this from a girl who was still actively in the business,he even catalogued how the craze to build four flats in nigeria drives most of those girls do some so many unprintable, anyone who thinks the girls are being forced needs to remove their rose tinted glasses and smell the coffee!!

There are so many casual factors as others have already mentioned on this thread.

But even so, it is hard to deny a common denominator to all these cases is a desire to break out of poverty at ANY cost.

Prostitution, in the minds of most of these women, is seen a means to achieving a veritable end, to begin with.
It is common knowledge that the proceeds of this profession - certainly in the early years when it first took hold in Europe - birthed many sprawling mansions all over Southern Nigeria, with extended communities benefiting from remittances sent by its practitioners.

How do we break the cycle now?

The Nigerian Government needs to make a clearer commitment, rather than abnegating its responsibilities and leaving the task of educating local communities to NGOs.
It is also time the Diaspora, which contributes so much FDI annually, gets proper representation and not simply a non-functioning house-committee.

Personally, I would suggest appointing a Czar (it has to be a woman) with a proven track record in the area of women's rights, to head up a new agency with a clearly defined goal of reducing the outflow of young women from Nigeria.

I held back from posting the following article last week, but consider it pertinent to the discussion on this thread.

[img]http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00981/thomas_981687t.jpg[/img]
By Declan Brennan
Tuesday November 08 2011
THIS is the mother-of-three who sent a schoolgirl to Be Intimate with a 64-year-old man who paid her €50 for the deal.

Remilekun Thomas (39), formerly of Fortlawn Park, Blanchardstown, west Dublin was jailed for six years.

The man involved in the transaction took his own life three days after gardai began investigating the allegations.

Nigerian-born Thomas pleaded guilty to two charges of using a child for the purposes of intimate exploitation at two locations in Dublin on dates between May 1 and 31, 2008.

The Dublin Circuit Criminal Court heard the man paid €50 to the girl for full intercourse on at least six occasions at his home and at another location.

Thomas took this money from the teenager each time, only giving €10 back to her on one occasion.

On another occasion the man paid €100, which Thomas took from the victim in full.

The court heard that Thomas first met the girl in September 2007 at Thomas's home. She was in third-year of secondary school and was dressed in her school uniform; the victim told Thomas she was 15.

In May 2008, Thomas was working as a LovePeddler with the deceased man as a client when he asked her to find another "girl" for him to Be Intimate with.

He didn't specify anything about the girl's age.

Thomas told the teenager to go and meet the man and that he would "take care of her", meaning he would Be Intimate with her.

Prostitution
These meetings continued until the girl's mother found out and alerted gardai, who arrested Thomas, initially on a charge of organising prostitution.

Detective Garda John Small told the court that the deceased man had admitted meeting the girl a number of times and paying her €50 to €100 each time for sex.

Kenneth C Fogarty, defending, said his client was a Nigerian national who was now living legally in the State and had three children who were born here. He said she had come here in 2000 and held down a number of jobs -- but from 2005 onwards she developed an addiction to cocaine and crack cocaine .

She began to perform intimate acts for money to "feed her habit".

Speaking directly to Judge Patrick McCartan, Thomas said she was sorry and pleaded for mercy.

She said: "I'm sorry for everything I've caused.

"I'm trying to fix my habit. I'm sorry for the shame I have caused the family of the victim."

After initially pleading guilty earlier this year, Thomas tried to change her plea last May but her application to do so was rejected.

The court heard that the victim came from a stable family.

Judge McCartan said Thomas's crimes were "particularly disturbing" given the fact the accused was also a mother.

He sentenced her to four years on each count but suspended the last two, noting the fact that she had "not been in trouble" with the gardai before.

Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/motherofthree-who-sent-schoolgirl-for-sex-with-man-64-is-jailed-for-six-years-2927897.html

Jenifa_:

are you an attorney?

seems like you will be a great candidate to start an NGO representing these girls.

Representing them in what sense though? Just kidding . . . I think getting more and more individuals sensitive to the situation many of the foreigners, the gals included, live in(fear of the system rather than embracing it and taking advantage of the benefits therein), then we might get more people helping these girls, and every other newbie out there with information to help them excel.

lol . . .  I am actually anti-hookery, BUT I understand why women would go that low to fend for themselves or even get their needs(for attention, want, etc.) met. As I have suggested in a previously, I believe to tackle the increase, we need to go back to the root of the issue . .  the family unit.

eGuerrilla:


There are so many casual factors as others have already mentioned on this thread.

But even so, it is hard to deny a common denominator to all these cases is a desire to break out of poverty at ANY cost.

Prostitution, in the minds of most of these women, is seen a means to achieving a veritable end, to begin with.
It is common knowledge that the proceeds of this profession - certainly in the early years when it first took hold in Europe - birthed many sprawling mansions all over Southern Nigeria, with extended communities benefiting from remittances sent by its practitioners.

@bolded
this is precisely where the problem lies, like i stated in one of my previous postings,riches or a good quality of life is relative to an individual's interpretation of it.when a lady is looking to build a mansion or four flats within 3/4 yrs of her sojourn in europe within whatever means she can, that becomes pure greed.in this situation it starts bordering on crime in which case poverty cannot be used as an excuse.because lets be honest where really does it end if poverty is used as an excuse??
there was a time when these women were exploited and trafficked by organised gangs in the 1990s but in the 2000s until the present moment the awareness is so great now that no one can come up to say they didn't have an idea of what they were travelling to europe especially europe for.

eGuerrilla:

How do we break the cycle now?

in my own opinion,the causal effects starts from their immediate family and their core values, this has to be tackled because when parents begin to think the only way their female children can survive in europe is through prostitution rather than working hard at a career or business something is fundamentally wrong somewhere,its not like there are no nigerian females in italy and other eu working hard to earn a living,but they more often than not are tarred with same brush due to the activities of the ones prostituting.

eGuerrilla:

The Nigerian Government needs to make a clearer commitment, rather than abnegating its responsibilities and leaving the task of educating local communities to NGOs.
It is also time the Diaspora, which contributes so much FDI annually, gets proper representation and not simply a non-functioning house-committee.

totally agree with this, but the problem again are the nigerian madams who live in italy,they go back to their home states flaunting their wealth to entire the young impressionable girls.the funny thing is that young men are also trafficked in italy as well according to my friend.
the older rich nigerian madams bring young virile men from nigeria lock them in their houses and then buys them clothes ,feed and house them e.t.c their only jobs is to be used as sex objects and then taking them to show off and compare at parties.

eGuerrilla:

Personally, I would suggest appointing a Czar (it has to be a woman) with a proven track record in the area of women's rights, to head up a new agency with a clearly defined goal of reducing the outflow of young women from Nigeria.

lets hope the edo state govt will will begin to take pro active steps matching the european union efforts, hon abide dabiri erewa is supposed to be in charge of diaporean affairs in the federal house of reps but she seems lukewarm

eGuerrilla:

I held back from posting the following article last week, but consider it pertinent to the discussion on this thread.
Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/motherofthree-who-sent-schoolgirl-for-sex-with-man-64-is-jailed-for-six-years-2927897.html

now that the authorities are on the case,I'm sure the girl will be fully rehabilitated and hopefully recover from the horrific experience having said that cases like this are gradually becoming the minority with the latter above increasingly being the majority