MaxInDHouse:
YES!
We are all born sinners {Romans 3:23; 5:12}

I have explained this to you even using your own organisation teaching but it seems you don't want to learn.

The attached is your organisation teaching, this is not hard to understand.

but the OP is asking if a newly baby committed a sin that's what i explained that regarding commiting sin the baby is INNOCENT.

Then you contradicting yourself by providing that Bible verse.

It's evident that you don't understand the verse you provided

For more insight on INNOCENT and FAITHFUL read more on the below thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/7848261/difference-he-innocent-faithful

May you have PEACE!

The point here is that babies can't be said to be faithful because they don't even know anything of such the same way with SIN.

The fact is, babies are INNOCENT and to be innocent is to be without sin that means they can't be an enemies of God.

So for you agreed with your gods show you don't know what you're saying.

Emusan:

The fact is, babies are INNOCENT and to be innocent is to be without sin

Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin. Psalms 51:5

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3:23

With the above innocence is not an excuse!

MaxInDHouse:


Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin. Psalms 51:5

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3:23

With the above innocence is not an excuse!

You're still repeating the same thing.

I educated you the last time even bringing your own organisation explanation about the two verses.

So, babies are INNOCENT they can't be enemies of God.

Even human knowledge demands that once you're declared INNOCENT by a competent court of law, no one can called you a criminal. How much more with that be with God?

For you to believe bables are INNOCENT and still believe that they are God's enemies shows something is wrong with your understanding.

Below are your organisation explanation.

Why are you not in one line of thought with your organisation?

Veecruz:


See now, you have stretched it to inherent sin forgetting that inherent sin also means the ability to sin, which a baby can do after growing up and knowing what things are good or evil.

But till then, he is incapable of sin until he reaches the age of sin liability. Criminal liability

well the creepy white dude means a different thing

Emusan:


You're still repeating the same thing.

I educated you the last time even bringing your own organisation explanation about the two verses.

So, babies are INNOCENT they can't be enemies of God.

Even human knowledge demands that once you're declared INNOCENT by a competent court of law, no one can called you a criminal. How much more with that be with God?

For you to believe bables are INNOCENT and still believe that they are God's enemies shows something is wrong with your understanding.

Below are your organisation explanation.

Why are you not in one line of thought with your organisation?

Which organization told you that babies are enemies of God?

MaxInDHouse:


Which organization told you that babies are enemies of God?

Don't mind him

He himself drop a screenshot that Adam and Eve passed on sin to their descendants. This happened when they had no children yet meaning that all their future offspring are condemned to sin
A babe left on his own without proper guidance will do all sorts of badness
Our sinful nature incline us to do wrong

If you give a child of about 1 year a knife 🗡 and rest your head beside him. He'll keep stabbing it until blood gushes out and the person dies. People will not blame or prosecute the child cos he's INNOCENT

He has nothing meaningful to post on NL that act like one nagging wife around us...

How was the Memorial sir?
We were 340 in number

FxMasterz:
Mathew 19:14

"Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Jesus already answered the question.

As my brother Steep rightly said, the baby is a sinner because he was born in sin but God does not condemn him to hell because he has done nothing for which he is personally responsible.

God does not hold babies or children accountable, as seen Mathew 19:14. Just as in the wilderness, God did not hold Israelites who were below 20yrs responsible for the rebellion of the nation. Joshua and Caleb with those who were below 20yrs were blameless, but all those who were older than 20 were condemned to die in the wilderness and not enter Canaan.

Numbers 14:29
"In this wilderness your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me."

So 20 year old person is not accountable to God?
There were children Sodom when it God destroyed
Bible says that Boys to old men wanted to rape the angels

Obrigardo:
∆ As expected, you people have read your own meaning into this. Please read it again and tell me if he meant what you are claiming.

Na automatic reflex wey Christians get be that, to lie that is.

Aemmyjah:


Don't mind him

He himself drop a screenshot that Adam and Eve passed on sin to their descendants. This happened when they had no children yet meaning that all their future offspring are condemned to sin
A babe left on his own without proper guidance will do all sorts of badness
Our sinful nature incline us to do wrong

If you give a child of about 1 year a knife 🗡 and rest your head beside him. He'll keep stabbing it until blood gushes out and the person dies. People will not blame or prosecute the child cos he's INNOCENT

He has nothing meaningful to post on NL that act like one nagging wife around us...

How was the Memorial sir?
We were 340 in number

Awesome!
127 in attendance.

Obrigardo:
∆ You guys are distorting it as usual.
He wrote, paraphrasing that " a 4 month old SINS" not born into sin. He literally said a 4 month infant SINS.

Even when the verse quoted from Numbers clearly suggests that God did not consider guilty those who were less than 20 at the time, he still chose to impose his own interpretation to suggest instead that they were guilty of sin. That is to show you how truly Christianity does not abide at all by the details of what is written in Scripture but rather by the interpretations --- all lies --- of men.

Expanse2020:

The baby is genetically a sinner but he is also innocent..you people and your story book are confusing each other

That is just as stewpid a claim to make.

Babies are born under the curse which was afflicted on Adam and Eve as a result of their sin against God. God does not judge a baby for sin.

Obrigardo:


well the creepy white dude means a different thing

People speak to the extent they know.

FxMasterz:
Mathew 19:14

"Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Jesus already answered the question.

As my brother Steep rightly said, the baby is a sinner because he was born in sin but God does not condemn him to hell because he has done nothing for which he is personally responsible.

God does not hold babies or children accountable, as seen Mathew 19:14. Just as in the wilderness, God did not hold Israelites who were below 20yrs responsible for the rebellion of the nation. Joshua and Caleb with those who were below 20yrs were blameless, but all those who were older than 20 were condemned to die in the wilderness and not enter Canaan.

Numbers 14:29
"In this wilderness your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me."

Correction!

It is a from the age of 7 that every soul becomes liable for wrong doing (sin). This is just another example of where God's grace is exercised for here, As The King to Whom the offence was given, He herein exercises His discretion to exclude persons below 20yrs from the death penalty associated with this specific crime which was originally commited by adults and not children.

Thus, it was right and just that God exludes the children from the crimes of the adults.

Obrigardo:
■ Does that mean a 4 month old baby violated God's law? what kind of destructive doctrine is that?

A 4-month-old has not violated any of God's Laws.

Even the so-called age of accountability peddled by Christians who claim to belong to Jesus Christ is bullsheet! Anyone living outside of God's Law cannot be a sinner because sin is a direct violation — disobedience —of God's Law and those who are under God's Law — either the Old or New— are those who are of the blood of Jacob. So, how can one born of a dog — a non-Israelite — have sinned against God when the Law was not even extended to them by God?

To become of the Law that is Jesus Christ, one who is first of the blood of Jacob has to knowingly and intentionally subscribe to enter and become a citizen of the Kingdom of God, an eternal Covenant. And no third party can sign another up — parents cannot sign or force their children into the Kingdom of God neither can a man or woman conscript a partner or another man or woman into the covenant that is the Kingdom of God. No one is born into this agreement. One has to mentally and physically accept the contract of his or her own volition. As such the age of accountability idea that is thrown around by Christians begins to break when you consider this.

In addition, Jesus Christ said except a man(not a child) is born born-again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. this causes one to question whether a child can even become born-again or gain access at all to the Covenant that is Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus Christ said those who are in the Kingdom of God are like children but throughout the Gospels, Jesus Christ never suggests that children are also able to enter into the Kingdom of God. They can be accepted by those who are citizens of the Kingdom of God and equally cared for by them. But for a child to have to be put through the swearing-in required for all those who would become born-again, there is no solid evidence of such in the Gospels. This further sets the age of accountability idea as more of an assumption and nothing else created by the Christians.

P.S. Dogs are non-Israelites who are considered able to fend for themselves whereas sheep are those who are born of the blood of Jacob and considered by God to be unable to fend for themselves without Him of course.

Veecruz:


Correction!

It is a from the age of 7 that every soul becomes liable for wrong doing (sin). This is just another example of where God's grace is exercised for here, As The King to Whom the offence was given, He herein exercises His discretion to exclude persons below 20yrs from the death penalty associated with this specific crime which was originally commited by adults and not children.

Thus, it was right and just that God exludes the children from the crimes of the adults.

Please support your claims with scriptures!

Don't come here pitching your thoughts against the word of God. I never said God has chosen the age of 20 as the age of accountability. I quoted that scripture without drawing any inference.

God didn't stipulate any specific age for people to become accountable. God alone knows the age of accountability for every individual. People mature at different paces. God knows when an individual has reached the age of accountability. There are 5yr olds that are even more self-aware, more intelligent and have deeper understanding of things than some 7yr olds.

No age was pegged in the Bible because God, being the only Wise God knows that age shouldn't be a yardstick. What would we say about those whose mental developments are slow? What would we say about those mentally challenged humans whose intellectual maturity take a long time? Some never even mature intellectually.

If you want to argue, bring the scriptures for your backing. Say only what the Word says. If you are a pusher of your own thoughts, you would fall into many errors.

Aemmyjah:


So 20 year old person is not accountable to God?
There were children Sodom when it God destroyed
Bible says that Boys to old men wanted to rape the angels

I didn't say so. I only quoted that scripture to show God does not hold children accountable. Would you quote where I said God holds people accountable from age 20?

People develop at different paces. God knows when each individual should be held accountable for his deeds. The age of accountability would be different from person to person. That's why no age is mentioned in the Bible. There are people who are so mentally slow that even at 40, they don't know what they're doing.

Kobojunkie:
Even when the verse quoted from Numbers clearly suggests that God did not consider guilty those who were less than 20 at the time they left Egypt, he still chose to imposehis own interpretation to suggest instead that they were guilty of sin. That is to show you how truly Christianity does not abide at all by the details of what is written in Scripture but rather by the interpretations --- all lies --- of men.

Seriously!
They just reinterpreting what they feel can settle their bias thereby making Yahuah looking like a very evil entity.
Even King James had to make sure his version fits the reinterpration to his bias.

FxMasterz:


I didn't say so. I only quoted that scripture to show God does not hold children accountable. Would you quote why I said God holds people accountable from age 20?

People develop at different paces. God knows when each individual should be held accountable for his deeds. The age of accountability would be different from person to person. That's why no age is mentioned in the Bible. There are people who are so mentally slow that even at 40, they don't know what they're doing.

A mentally slow person at 40 will not be e accountable to God?

Obrigardo:
■ Seriously! They just reinterpreting what they feel can settle their bias thereby making Yahuah looking like a very evil entity. Even King James had to make sure his version fits the reinterpration to his bias.

That there in bold is the ultimate goal of the entire religion — to make the God of Israel and Jesus Christ seem nothing more than liars and deceivers. Jesus Christ warned about it all!

Obrigardo:


Seriously!
They just reinterpreting what they feel can settle their bias thereby making Yahuah looking like a very evil entity.
Even King James had to make sure his version fits the reinterpration to his bias.

Much time had passed
None of the 20 year old then witnessed the exodus from Egypt
It was their stubborn parents that suffered God's judgment
Only Joshua and Caleb were only people who left Egypt that arrived the promised land
So Jehovah’s anger blazed against Israel and he made them wander about in the wilderness for 40 years, until all the generation that was doing evil in the eyes of Jehovah came to its end.

[b]Jehovah then said to Moses and Aaron: 27 “How much longer will this evil assembly keep up this murmuring against me? I have heard what the Israelites are murmuring against me. 28 Say to them, ‘“As surely as I live,” declares Jehovah, “I will do to you just what I have heard you speak!
29 In this wilderness your corpses will fall, yes, the whole number of you from 20 years old and up who were registered, all of you who have murmured against me. 30 None of you will enter into the land that I swore to have you reside in except Caʹleb the son of Je·phunʹneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31 “‘“And I will bring in your children, who you said would become plunder, and they will get to know the land that you have rejected. 32 But your own corpses will fall in this wilderness.
33 Now your sons will become shepherds in the wilderness 40 years, and they will have to answer for your acts of unfaithfulness until the last one of your corpses falls in the wilderness.
34 According to the number of the days that you spied out the land, 40 days, a day for a year, a day for a year, you will answer for your errors 40 years, for you will know what it means to oppose me.
35 “‘“I, Jehovah, have spoken. This is what I will do to all this evil assembly, those who have gathered together against me: In this wilderness they will come to their end, and here they will die.
36 The men whom Moses sent to spy out the land and who caused the whole assembly to murmur against him when they returned with a bad report about the land[/b]

Aemmyjah:


A mentally slow person at 40 will not be e accountable to God?

I'm not God. God knows how He determines who'll be accountable to Him.

But would God be a just God to hold a mentally challenged person accountable, when he doesn't know what he's doing even at 100? For example, someone born with mental retardation.

MaxInDHouse:
Which organization told you that babies are enemies of God?

Your gods in Warwick said so.

So, I opened your eyes to see that no scripture supported that claim.

Since watchtower has already explained what that Psalm & Romans were saying, it means you bringing that to support the lie can't hold water.

Veecruz:


If you were a Christian and not a Muslim then you would have known that a person always intend to sin, when they sin.

If they did not intend to sin, every just Judge will see it.

If a person father is a debtor definitely the son automatically inherited the debt and when the father died the kid must pay the debt back unless he maybe subdue to a slave....
When Adam committed sin and you inherited and now you still said the person doesn't have the sin on his record but he just inherited it...is that not confusing

Kobojunkie:
That is just as stewpid a claim to make.

Babies are born under the curse which was afflicted on Adam and Eve as a result of their sin against God. God does not judge a baby for sin.

will see it.[/quote]

If a person father is a debtor definitely the son automatically inherited the debt and when the father died the kid must pay the debt back unless he maybe subdue to a slave....
When Adam committed sin and you inherited and now you still said the person doesn't have the sin on his record but he just inherited it...is that not confusing

Expanse2020:
∆ If a person father is a debtor definitely the son automatically inherited the debt and when the father died the kid must pay the debt back unless he maybe subdue to a slave....
∆ When Adam committed sin and you inherited and now you still said the person doesn't have the sin on his record but he just inherited it...is that not confusing

1. Wrong! I can't inherit my father's debt unless the Law makes allowance for that to happen.

2. Wrong! No man inherited Adam's sins. Rather, what all men inherited where the consequences of his sin.

Kobojunkie:
1. Wrong! I can't inherit my father's debt unless the Law makes allowance for that to happen.

2. Wrong! No man inherited Adam's sins. Rather, what all men inherited where the consequences of his sin.

You are joker and continue twisting lie in ur heart

MaxInDHouse:


Imagine Elion Musk has a baby boy today has the child inherited wealth or not?

If the child is automatically a billionaire due to being Elion Musk's child then any child born to human has inherited sin {Psalms 51:5} for all humans have sinned {Romans 3:23} through Adam! Romans 5:12

As for a child or baby they can only become God's friend if their parents introduce God's word to them {Deuteronomy 6:4-7} children born to unbelievers are God's enemies for if God orders the extermination of their parents the children will not be spared!

Interesting. Just the same way a child born to a mother with cancer automatically has cancer. Ride on sir!!!

Expanse2020:

If a person father is a debtor definitely the son automatically inherited the debt and when the father died the kid must pay the debt back unless he maybe subdue to a slave....
When Adam committed sin and you inherited and now you still said the person doesn't have the sin on his record but he just inherited it...is that not confusing

He does not inherit the debt, unless he agrees (consents) to it, koboj has told you that he would not agree. it is rather that his father's property must be used to settle the debt the father owes.

The only thing man inherited from Adam is the ability to commit a sin, that is what the bible meant

FxMasterz:


Please support your claims with scriptures!

Don't come here pitching your thoughts against the word of God. I never said God has chosen the age of 20 as the age of accountability. I quoted that scripture without drawing any inference.

God didn't stipulate any specific age for people to become accountable. God alone knows the age of accountability for every individual. People mature at different paces. God knows when an individual has reached the age of accountability. There are 5yr olds that are even more self-aware, more intelligent and have deeper understanding of things than some 7yr olds.

No age was pegged in the Bible because God, being the only Wise God knows that age shouldn't be a yardstick. What would we say about those whose mental developments are slow? What would we say about those mentally challenged humans whose intellectual maturity take a long time? Some never even mature intellectually.

If you want to argue, bring the scriptures for your backing. Say only what the Word says. If you are a pusher of your own thoughts, you would fall into many errors.

Your intentions and reason (inferemce) for a statement is always relevant unless you c
expressly state it that the statement should be taken without meaning.

True, God did not specify a specific age but Nature has. And it is based on this observation that all over the world criminal liability commences at the age of 7. And the word.is "as a general rule".

Meaning, that when a person is seen and known to be slow in understanding and fails to understand that he has done a wrong, no ust and fair Court will ever convict him. That is The Law which God gave and taought Moses. So in the end everyone is covered under Law, God's Law which is the True Law and not the fake evil law called legal which are merely commands of men.

FxMasterz:


I'm not God. God knows how He determines who'll be accountable to Him.

But would God be a just God to hold a mentally challenged person accountable, when he doesn't know what he's doing even at 100? For example, someone born with mental retardation.

There were no such people in Noah's day and Lot's day?

Aemmyjah:


A mentally slow person at 40 will not be e accountable to God?

FxMasterz:

I'm not God. God knows how He determines who'll be accountable to Him.
But would God be a just God to hold a mentally challenged person accountable, when he doesn't know what he's doing even at 100? For example, someone born with mental retardation.

Look at mad men on the streets, do they not know not to steal, kill, destroy, harm and wound people or even children?

Even a sliow person knows sone good and evil and we hold them lyable to that part that we know, they know,

So, how much more God, Who knows all that they know!

Aemmyjah:


There were no such people in Noah's day and Lot's day?

We're talking about individual accountability, not when God wants to punish a generation, nation or city.

The day of judgement is a day of individual accountability.

Revelation 20:11-15
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.