Gerrard59:


Na wetin I realise few years ago. Person go think tire con later realise say na only am and few others dey reason like that. I recall when David Hundyein tweeted that in the coming years, whites would not be comfortable with blacks in their midst and the only solution is building a functioning black country in Africa. Even if it means seizing power and just create a functioning black dominated society in Africa.



To be fair, those qualities can easily be implemented in societies where there is a clear dominance by groups which desire those attributes. However, as I write, there exist countries with such dominance, yet dem no dey successful. The thing tire person sha. For instance, see Equatorial Guinea and Gabon. Fine, they are ruled by dictators, but why not implement similar policies like those in the UAE and Qatar? That way, you diversify from oil and attract people from around the world to live, work and play in your countries. No point to reinventing the wheel, just copy and paste. Finish!

Thank God say the tweet by Paul Graham has revealed some of the thoughts white Americans have towards black Africans. I hope more of such revelations happen, maybe some people go develop sense by force.

My brother, I am impressed by your insights. It simply because you are well educated and well travelled. Most black Africans are oblivious of the world around them, ignorant and living a shade off our closest relative, the Gorilla. We are satisfied with just mundane animalistic instincts and sensations like sex, food, drinks and rituals, while the rest of the world are moving ahead with science and technology and building a stable, prosperous and peaceful society. At the rate of our degradation, I don't see the black race surviving the next century. Our culture, land and even physical attributes would have been eroded and assimilated by the whites by then. Today the best of us are migrating to assimilate in Europe and the Americas, while the worst of us are left behind to complete the destruction of the society. Only a brutal awaking, might wake us up of our stupor.

CaveAdullam:


It is the extra efforts they place in trying to live an enjoyable life in a poor and degraded nation I find ironic - tinted cars, bulletproof cars, high-fenced houses, and security escorts. But good roads, good hospitals, and good markets are far from them. Cases of emergencies and accidents are when the reality sets in.

It is not that I'm jealous and entitled to the pocket of any wealthy man. They worked for their money and can choose how to spend it. However, what's enjoying life when you don't have peace because you're scared of banditry, kidnapping, epileptic power supply, wicked house helps, and being prone to accidents because of unlicensed drivers and bad roads?

I don't know if these people have ever considered that there's no place like home. But if the foundation, which is the home, is shaky, it can't be inhabitable. And this is the disrespect and disdain other races have toward Africans and the Black population. Who will respect and honor an elder when that elder isn't respected and honored at home? Blacks will continue to be treated like shit and trash by other races until they develop their people and continent. DEI is just a thin bandage on their fractured bones.

The masses, aren't even left out. We are the bag those ugly and dumb samples were selected from. Even the way we act on a basic level is appalling, annoying, and reeks of mental disorders. A stroll around the community will show you how foolishly the average Nigerian behaves in private and public.

There's no sense of patriotism on a general scale. The people are after "let me eat my own and clean mouth. Nor be me kee, Jesus". With such a mentality, there's no way a nation can succeed. The ordinary man has a role to play too.

The painful thing is that there's a template for national development. A simple Ctrl + C from another developed or developing nation then Ctrl + V to their nations will get the continent awake and moving. But no, trust our dumb politicians and elites. They'd prefer feasting on a drizzling of crumbs than taking the time to plant seeds and reap bountiful harvests in future. It's always about the moment, as with myopic people who only see and think short-term.

This is why I always say poverty is a mentality. You can be rich and still live and behave like a peasant. Money in the hands of a fool doesn't make him wise. He just has the opportunity to display more foolishness. This is the case of African leaders and elites.

Thanks.

PS: I will start reading the book today. I scheduled my reading in the early hours of the morning. 1 - 2 hours daily. That's how I'm able to keep up with books.

I also do list filtering. One can't read all the most interesting books in the world. I do select for the ones I find more appealing at intervals.

Thanks.

You come make me dey vex this early morning. Our situation sad, no be small.

Even for abroad sef, no unity. We scam each other, break marriages, operate on competition instead of coperation, and refusal to help ourselves.

Na prosperous African country I use dey console myself, otherwise, we have proved with actions that we are actually inferior to other races.

Na wa

wirinet:


My brother, I am impressed by your insights. It simply because you are well educated and well travelled. Most black Africans are oblivious of the world around them, ignorant and living a shade off our closest relative, the Gorilla. We are satisfied with just mundane animalistic instincts and sensations like sex, food, drinks and rituals, while the rest of the world are moving ahead with science and technology and building a stable, prosperous and peaceful society. At the rate of our degradation, I don't see the black race surviving the next century. Our culture, land and even physical attributes would have been eroded and assimilated by the whites by then. Today the best of us are migrating to assimilate in Europe and the Americas, while the worst of us are left behind to complete the destruction of the society. Only a brutal awaking, might wake us up of our stupor.

Calm down, Europe was stagnant for 1, 000 years before the Renaissance / Enlightenment. No human population can remain eternally stagnant. Nature and life have ways of prodding and compelling movement.

PS: Haba, @ "Gorilla!" You harsh oh, bros.

Raalsalghul:


Well written Cave and I share the same thoughts as you but the most annoying thing about this after coming to the realization of how low the IQ of the black race is the fact that you have no control over your being black and that you might be the only one in the midst of a billion souls who's only come to this knowledge and enlightenment.

Most Black Africans from my own observation simply do not care and would rather give in to carnal desires rather than ponder on how to improve their race. It's all man for himself. The whites do not think like that.

I wrote a post here on how negro slaves were the least in price during the Arab slavery.

Furthermore, I have also written on how I am reluctant to reproduce as a Black African person because there is no leverage to my offspring to succeed in this world where we are at the bottom of the pyramid.

I have lived with white people, I have worked with white people.

I have white folks as my friends.

I have studied them, how they think, their mentality and mindset, their preference for using logic rather than emotions or sentiments in dealing with issues, their inclusive thinking to nation buildings, their perchance for meritocracy, their immediate urge to look for a solution when something goes wrong and learn from it, their formulation of laws and swiftness to punish those who disobey them, their lazy approach to work and life which in turn makes them creative and come up/build on technology to make life easier for them, their respect of people's choices and way of life so long as it's legal and in line with the law.


I have studied all these their attributes even down to the point I am beginning to think like them and starting to see Africans from their perspective and why they built top civilizations but the most annoying thing about it is that I am still black, skin is still black, I have thick hair and strong accent.

A little learning is a terrible thing. You actually are simply a self hating ignoramus with no knowledge of history and the movement of civilizations, nations and peoples, and with a terrible racial inferiority complex.

If you knew anything, you would know just how the ebb and flow of civilization has occurred through the ages - and more importantly you would know why. It has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with climate and geography at the foundation. Further on, other factors come into play, but these are the foundational factors. If you knew anything you would also recognize cycles in history and the rise and fall of knowledge and societies. Persia was once the leading power in the world, but where is Iran today? Same with Egypt. Same with Babylon, but where is Iraq today? Tell me if Italy is still the biggest power in the world when there was once the Roman Empire that sprang from it? What about Greece of Alexander's time, that conquered most of known civilization? What about the Ottoman Empire - tell me where Turkey is today - is it the master of its surroundings the way the Ottoman Empire that sprang from it was?

Someone like you will be ignorant of the fact that when the Spanish went to the Americas, they were confronted with cities bigger and more wondrously designed than the largest cities in Europe at the time. Needless to say, you cannot ever know that it was small pox, brought as a contagious disease by the the Europeans, and not the gun, that actually defeated the natives.

What do you think the Romans thought of the the Brits and Germans? They regarded them as barbarian, and they certainly were, compared to Roman Civilization. When the Romans met them, they lived in tiny huts and used bows and arrows and wooden spears and were generally just like Africans were at the time Europeans came here. What do you think that was a function of? And where are Britain and Germany today, have they not exceeded Italy in all things? If you don't understand the role of geography in this singular question you can never have a serious conversation on this matter.

Your write up is shallow and bereft of any serious thought or understanding whatsoever.

cc: CaveAdullam, wirinet, Gerrard59

DeepSight:


A little learning is a terrible thing. You actually are simply a self hating ignoramus with no knowledge of history and the movement of civilizations, nations and peoples, and with a terrible racial inferiority complex.

If you knew anything, you would know just how the ebb and flow of civilization has occurred through the ages - and more importantly you would know why. It has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with climate and geography at the foundation. Further on, other factors come into play, but these are the foundational factors. If you knew anything you would also recognize cycles in history and the rise and fall of knowledge and societies. Persia was once the leading power in the world, but where is Iran today? Same with Egypt. Same with Babylon, but where is Iraq today? Tell me if Italy is still the biggest power in the world when there was once the Roman Empire that sprang from it? What about Greece of Alexander's time, that conquered most of known civilization? What about the Ottoman Empire - tell me where Turkey is today - is it the master of its surroundings the way the Ottoman Empire that sprang from it was?

Someone like you will be ignorant of the fact that when the Spanish went to the Americas, they were confronted with cities bigger and more wondrously designed than the largest cities in Europe at the time. Needless to say, you cannot ever know that it was small pox, brought as a contagious disease by the the Europeans, and not the gun, that actually defeated the natives.

What do you think the Romans thought of the the Brits and Germans? They regarded them as barbarian, and they certainly were, compared to Roman Civilization. When the Romans met them, they lived in tiny huts and used bows and arrows and wooden spears and were generally just like Africans were at the time Europeans came here. What do you think that was a function of? And where are Britain and Germany today, have they not exceeded Italy in all things? If you don't understand the role of geography in this singular question you can never have a serious conversation on this matter.

Your write up is shallow and bereft of any serious thought or understanding whatsoever.

cc: CaveAdullam, wirinet, Gerrard59

I wanted to give you a lengthy reply until I read the bold.

You're the bigger ignoramus for ignoring the importance of guns, writing, horses and cannons of the early Spanish Conquistadors in conquering the Native Americans.

Go and tell this nonsense to the 8000 Native Americans that were killed by 200 Spanish conquistadors in one day when Francisco Pizzaro kidnapped Emperor Atahualpa of the Incas and see if they wouldn't skin you alive to make barbeque.

All conquests and empires of Khemet, Hellas, Arya, Alexandros and Phillipos, Diadochoi and its different Basileus, Roma and its princeps (Imperators), Muslim expansion and its Caliphs (Rashidun, Zubayrid, Umayyad) have all stemmed from the White and Asian races.

Tell me anything significant the negroes have done or conquered since the origins of man in the African continent and started moving from Africa and spreading in other climes.

You really want to go down into world history?

You think I have not perused the timelines of different empires before I came to this conclusion

Do you think you are talking to a learner in world history.

You must be mad!

Raalsalghul:


I wanted to give you a lengthy reply until I read the bold.

You're the bigger ignoramus for ignoring the importance of guns, writing, horses and cannons of the early Spanish Conquistadors in conquering the Native Americans.

Go and tell this nonsense to the 8000 Native Americans that were killed by 200 Spanish conquistadors in one day when Francisco Pizzaro kidnapped Emperor Atahualpa of the Incas and see if they wouldn't skin you alive to make barbeque.

All conquests and empires of Khemet, Hellas, Arya, Alexandros and Phillipos, Diadochoi and its different Basileus, Roma and its princeps (Imperators), Muslim expansion and its Caliphs (Rashidun, Zubayrid, Umayyad) have all stemmed from the White and Asian races.

Tell me anything significant the negroes have done or conquered since the origins of man in the African continent and started moving from Africa and spreading in other climes.

You really want to go down into world history?

You think I have not perused the timelines of different empires before I came to this conclusion

Do you think you are talking to a learner in world history.

You must be mad!

If you think you know a thing or two address yourself to the critical questions -

1. Where are Egypt, Persia, Rome and the Ottoman empire today?
2. What was the state of civilization of the Brits and Germans in the day of Julius Caesar?

You see, these two questions are only designed to prompt you to understand the ebb and flow of civilization. And well, maybe I should forgive you for not understanding why black Africa lags so much behind - because 99.9 per cent of people dont understand it either. I have already hinted you - the matter has its foundation in climate and geography. If you dont understand this, just humble yourself, I will explain.

But if you think the matter is simply about the innate superiority of the whiteman, not only are you stupidly ignorant, as I said, you suffer from an incurable racial inferiority complex.

PS: If you don't know the role of small pox in decimating the Americas, you don't know anything.

PPS: You said "guns, writing and horses." Just to show you how shallow you are let me point out that -

1. Gun powder was invented in China
2. The Meso Americans had writing - the Spanish burnt almost all their records. Also writing exists all over the world in many forms. When people were writing in the Middle East, Europeans were illiterates.
3. You dot even know that horses are part of the function of geography!

Mr Deepsight keeps talking about disease and whatnots.

Fine!

The Europeans invaded the American continent and through a combination of germs and steel they were able to conquer that continent.

The same Europeans invaded Africa, India and many of them died of Malaria and other tropical diseases in those places as they had no biological resistance nonetheless they were able to maintain their hold on these places even until modern times via neo-colonialism and yet you talk to me about geography, weather, diseases and shits.

You want to ignore their brain power and intelligence in all these conquests.

Telling me to go and learn world history and what not.

You never jam!

Raalsalghul:
Mr Deepsight keeps talking about disease and whatnots.

Fine!

The Europeans invaded the American continent and through a combination of germs and steel they were able to conquer that continent.

The same Europeans invaded Africa, India and many of them died of Malaria and other tropical diseases in those places as they had no biological resistance nonetheless they were able to maintain their hold on these places even until modern times via neo-colonialism and yet you talk to me about geography, weather, diseases and shits.

Telling me to go and learn world history and what not.

You never jam!

I told you before - a little learning is a terrible thing. Do you understand this statement?

I also added -

PPS: You said "guns, writing and horses." Just to show you how shallow you are let me point out that -

1. Gun powder was invented in China
2. The Meso Americans had writing - the Spanish burnt almost all their records. Also writing exists all over the world in many forms. When people were writing in the Middle East, Europeans were illiterates.
3. You dot even know that horses are part of the function of geography!

Raalsalghul:


The Europeans invaded the American continent and through a combination of germs and steel they were able to conquer that continent.

Just looking at this particular line again, it reads as though the Spanish deliberately, from their high technology, practiced biological warfare in the Americas. As though they invented small pox as a biological weapon and deliberately unleashed it from their high intelligence.

Raalsalghul:


You want to ignore their brain power and intelligence in all these conquests.

You are an inferior being - this is why you can write this line.

There is no special brain power the European has over other human beings. Rather societies evolve to a peak for several reasons - the foundational elements of which are climate and geography - with other factors coming on board such as trade and immigration (these are governed by geography, for example). When societies peak, they are able to conquer societies which have not attained the same level. And in this process is reignited the sharing of knowledge, much as Romans schooled Brits and Germans, much as Greeks schooled Romans, much as Jews schooled many people, much as Egyptians schooled a great many people, including Romans and Greeks, much as much knowledge flowed from China, India and the far east as a whole, to the Middle East, Europe and Africa. It is a continuing cycle and it has not ended yet. Much is still to unravel.

If you believe this is about the special brain power of white people, ol boy, you are a hog-tied and incapacitated illiterate.

DeepSight:


A little learning is a terrible thing. You actually are simply a self hating ignoramus with no knowledge of history and the movement of civilizations, nations and peoples, and with a terrible racial inferiority complex.

If you knew anything, you would know just how the ebb and flow of civilization has occurred through the ages - and more importantly you would know why. It has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with climate and geography at the foundation. Further on, other factors come into play, but these are the foundational factors. If you knew anything you would also recognize cycles in history and the rise and fall of knowledge and societies. Persia was once the leading power in the world, but where is Iran today? Same with Egypt. Same with Babylon, but where is Iraq today? Tell me if Italy is still the biggest power in the world when there was once the Roman Empire that sprang from it? What about Greece of Alexander's time, that conquered most of known civilization? What about the Ottoman Empire - tell me where Turkey is today - is it the master of its surroundings the way the Ottoman Empire that sprang from it was?

Someone like you will be ignorant of the fact that when the Spanish went to the Americas, they were confronted with cities bigger and more wondrously designed than the largest cities in Europe at the time. Needless to say, you cannot ever know that it was small pox, brought as a contagious disease by the the Europeans, and not the gun, that actually defeated the natives.

What do you think the Romans thought of the the Brits and Germans? They regarded them as barbarian, and they certainly were, compared to Roman Civilization. When the Romans met them, they lived in tiny huts and used bows and arrows and wooden spears and were generally just like Africans were at the time Europeans came here. What do you think that was a function of? And where are Britain and Germany today, have they not exceeded Italy in all things? If you don't understand the role of geography in this singular question you can never have a serious conversation on this matter.

Your write up is shallow and bereft of any serious thought or understanding whatsoever.

cc: CaveAdullam, wirinet, Gerrard59

There's no need for any condescension in this discussion.

You and @Raalsalghul are analysing same problem from different angles.

Climate and geography plays a role in the functionality of individuals and development of a nation. Africa is a hot continent, making it inconducive for work and the breeding of many parasites that causes diseases.

One useful sentence I picked from Walter Rodney in his book - How Europe Underdeveloped Africa: the Europeans have a a solid foundation and structure. They were able to conquer and colonized nations as a result of this.
This is where @Raalsaghul is coming from.

If you observed very well, that ancestral organization and structure is still there. Hence, they are on top of the world. They might not be following the template tit for tat, however, the template hasn't been completely ignored.

Regardless, Africans are not zombies. We are still intelligent even though our IQ is the least among the human races known.

But nothing stops us from developing our continent. We have the resources and human capital, however, we're still being dumb. Because we lack organization and structure.

Nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, used their oil resource to negotiate with standard oil to develop their nation. If the prince were as dumb like African leaders, Saudi Arabia would have been like Nigeria, Congo, etc.

Britain, America, Singapore, China, etc are the reasons I so much believe that one day Africa will see the light and raise shoulders in the world forum. Because these nations were once like Africa, and even worse.

The way the Black man lives his life makes the enlightened shudder in anger and self-pity. Because how can a race be so backward, ignorant, arrogant collectively. They lack pragmatism. They lack foundation. They lack a framework of operation. Policies are ignored. You'll be ashamed of being Black when you come to this knowledge.

Anyways, the development starts with us in whatever way we can.

Thanks.

DeepSight:


Calm down, Europe was stagnant for 1, 000 years before the Renaissance / Enlightenment. No human population can remain eternally stagnant. Nature and life have ways of prodding and compelling movement.

PS: Haba, @ "Gorilla!" You harsh oh, bros.

Yes, Europe was stagnant for 1000 years, but it was not retrogressing. This was mainly due to religious and political conflicts that were rife at that period. There was the Muslim invasion of Europe started from the 7th century AD, which led to the crusades that lasted until the 13th century. Then there was the mongol invasion of Europe in the 13th century, followed by the Ottoman Empire. It was after relative peace and stability starting from the end of the 14th century that Europe started experiencing progress and development.
Now what's are excuse for remaining stagnant for such a long time until the Europeans came to enslave us. Now after enslavement and colonialism, we seem to the retrogressing as a race and unable to build prosperous and stable societies.
The most annoying to me are Haiti, Guyana and Jamaica. Countries that were handed over to blacks to develop in the middle of the Americas, and we made a mess of them.

CaveAdullam:


There's no need for any condescension in this discussion.

Alright. Noted. My apologies to Raalsaghul in that regard. Let us drop the condescension both ways.

The thing is my hackles get up when I see talk of racial superiority which I believe is rooted in, if not ignorance, then a lack of deep thought. It is too easy to see one race advanced, and the other less so, and conclude that the advanced race is innately superior or more intelligent. Deeper thought reveals the actual whys and wherefores.

Climate and geography plays a role in the functionality of individuals and development of a nation. Africa is a hot continent, making it inconducive for work and the breeding of many parasites that causes diseases.

Thank you for noting this - but the effects extend far beyond these. No culture dwelling in such hot parts will develop technologies which have at their root the search for heat. The search for heat in itself is a thing that will very naturally trigger the development of much technology which is heat based and heat reliant. And aside from this, the existence of something such as winter alone, imposes a rigor to planning without which a people would simply die off. Entirely. There is a simple saying that summarizes this: necessity is the mother of invention and that also tells us why there is a spike in inventions during times of war.

I also mentioned geography and one thing that should be noted is the way the developed nations of the world are all placed along certain latitudes on the Earth. They are almost all entirely within the temperate zones of the Earth horizontally, from the East end of Russia all the way to the West End of Canada - they fall within a certain geographical band. This is enough to trigger thinking persons towards understanding the reasons for certain things - and aside from this, the geography of that band permitted much movement and trade in knowledge, mix of cultures and spread of technology. Natural barriers - such as Africa's vertical geography and the barrier imposed by the Sahara desert, form part of the reasons for the exclusion of sub-Saharan Africa from much that went on.

Regardless, Africans are not zombies. We are still intelligent even though our IQ is the least among the human races known.

This is not true - we do not have the lowest IQ and in this, please be wary of IQ tests which are knowledge based because knowledge is not the same thing as intelligence. Also be careful enough to consider socio-economic factors in your assessment because children from hungry and deprived homes are certainly less likely to excel in school than well fed children from comfortable homes who have access to the best educational tools.

But nothing stops us from developing our continent. We have the resources and human capital, however, we're still being dumb. Because we lack organization and structure.

Nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, used their oil resource to negotiate with standard oil to develop their nation. If the prince were as dumb like African leaders, Saudi Arabia would have been like Nigeria, Congo, etc.

Do you not notice something here about the nations you mentioned? Saudi Arabia and Qatar are both homogenous societies with a single religion and little diversity. Nigeria alone by contrast is more ethnically and linguistically diverse than the whole of Europe put together. Have you stopped to ponder the implication of this on peace, unity and patriotism, factors critical to development? Someone, I think, Gerrard59, pointed this out.

Britain, America, Singapore, China, etc are the reasons I so much believe that one day Africa will see the light and raise shoulders in the world forum. Because these nations were once like Africa, and even worse.

I am glad you note this, especially the bold.

The way the Black man lives his life makes the enlightened shudder in anger and self-pity. Because how can a race be so backward, ignorant, arrogant collectively. They lack pragmatism. They lack foundation. They lack a framework of operation. Policies are ignored. You'll be ashamed of being Black when you come to this knowledge.

Believe you me, i feel the frustration too. Its not that I dont. But everything takes time. As you noted, Europe didnt arrive at where it is today overnight.

CaveAdullam:


There's no need for any condescension in this discussion.

You and @Raalsalghul are analysing same problem from different angles.

Climate and geography plays a role in the functionality of individuals and development of a nation. Africa is a hot continent, making it inconducive for work and the breeding of many parasites that causes diseases.

One useful sentence I picked from Walter Rodney in his book - How Europe Underdeveloped Africa: the Europeans have a a solid foundation and structure. They were able to conquer and colonized nations as a result of this.
This is where @Raalsaghul is coming from.

If you observed very well, that ancestral organization and structure is still there. Hence, they are on top of the world. They might not be following the template tit for tat, however, the template hasn't been completely ignored.

Regardless, Africans are not zombies. We are still intelligent even though our IQ is the least among the human races known.

But nothing stops us from developing our continent. We have the resources and human capital, however, we're still being dumb. Because we lack organization and structure.

Nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, used their oil resource to negotiate with standard oil to develop their nation. If the prince were as dumb like African leaders, Saudi Arabia would have been like Nigeria, Congo, etc.

Britain, America, Singapore, China, etc are the reasons I so much believe that one day Africa will see the light and raise shoulders in the world forum. Because these nations were once like Africa, and even worse.

The way the Black man lives his life makes the enlightened shudder in anger and self-pity. Because how can a race be so backward, ignorant, arrogant collectively. They lack pragmatism. They lack foundation. They lack a framework of operation. Policies are ignored. You'll be ashamed of being Black when you come to this knowledge.

Anyways, the development starts with us in whatever way we can.

Thanks.

I dey gbadun your yarns. I agree with you that climate and disease played a huge role in our underdevelopment. The energy employed just for daily day to day survival leave little for thinking, creativity and acquisition of knowledge. Agriculture was hard in forest areas. Weather was unpredictable and some years have excess rainfall, while in some there was drought.
But...
These conditions no longer exists. There are now mechanised farming, improved seeds and crops and irrigation. It's an embarrassment we cannot feed ourself and have to rely on food imports from Asia and Europe.

About our ancestral organisation and structure, that was destroyed by the colonialists. It had been replaced by those imposes from Europe and to some extend Arabia.

I don't believe on an individual level our IQ is the least among the human races known. The problem is the societal or organisational IQ. Blacks cannot cooperate to achieve a common goal. We cannot build gigantic structures that requires a high level of cooperation by thousands of individuals, ie the Pyramids, the Titanic, the empire state building, etc. We can only excel on individual levels.

wirinet:


Yes, Europe was stagnant for 1000 years, but it was not retrogressing. This was mainly due to religious and political conflicts that were rife at that period. There was the Muslim invasion of Europe started from the 7th century AD, which led to the crusades that lasted until the 13th century. Then there was the mongol invasion of Europe in the 13th century, followed by the Ottoman Empire. It was after relative peace and stability starting from the end of the 14th century that Europe started experiencing progress and development.
Now what's are excuse for remaining stagnant for such a long time until the Europeans came to enslave us. Now after enslavement and colonialism, we seem to the retrogressing as a race and unable to build prosperous and stable societies.
The most annoying to me are Haiti, Guyana and Jamaica. Countries that were handed over to blacks to develop in the middle of the Americas, and we made a mess of them.

I answer the colored in same colors below -

I am glad you acknowledged that it took relative peace and stability before development could ensue in Europe. If they had to fight out their differences, what makes you think we will not face the same challenge - especially when we have been tossed together within artificial boundaries that render perpetual conflict almost inevitable? It will take time to sort out bro, this is unavoidable.

Talking about remaining stagnant until Europeans came to enslave us - this is an over simplification of a much more complex matter. Many African kingdoms such as Ghana (to be distinguished from the modern nation of Ghana - they are not the same at all), Mali, Benin, Ashante Kingdom, Kush, and others in East Africa were making steady progress at their own pace albeit constrained by climatic and geographical factors and barriers. Post Colonization there are even more complex reasons for retarded progress many of which were inflicted by colonialism. However this is not to make any excuse. All these are part of the tide - the natural ebb and flow of history and civilization which will even otself out with time.

I dont think you are well acquainted with the history of Haiti for example otherwise you would not say what you say here. This is a country that had been hobbled by very unfair imperialist debt to France which was rooted in ridiculous conditions of freedom long ago by which they were crippled by for more than a century.

- - - - > "The Haiti Independence Debt involves an 1825 agreement between Haiti and France that included France demanding an indemnity of 150 million francs to be paid by Haiti in claims over property – including Haitian slaves – that was lost through the Haitian Revolution in return for diplomatic recognition, with the debt removing $21 billion from the Haitian economy.[1][2] The first annual payment alone was six times Haiti's annual revenue.[1] The payment was later reduced to 90 million francs in 1838, equivalent to $33,875,264,271 in 2023, with Haiti paying about 112 million francs in total.[3] Over the 122 years between 1825 and 1947, the debt severely hampered Haitian economic development as payments of capital and interest totaled a significant share of Haitian GDP, constraining the use of domestic financial funds for infrastructure and public services"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti_Independence_Debt

And this is just one example.

wirinet:

I dey gbadun your yarns. I agree with you that climate and disease played a huge role in our underdevelopment. The energy employed just for daily day to day survival leave little for thinking, creativity and acquisition of knowledge. Agriculture was hard in forest areas. Weather was unpredictable and some years have excess rainfall, while in some there was drought.

Gbam. Thank you.

But...
These conditions no longer exists. There are now mechanised farming, improved seeds and crops and irrigation. It's an embarrassment we cannot feed ourself and have to rely on food imports from Asia and Europe.

When the rest of the world was being powered by large scale Agriculture impossible in many parts of Africa, did they have mechanized farming? You cant ignore the disadvantage of centuries only to wake up in the modern age and question why we are not at par just because machines are now available in the world. The historic disadvantage has had ripple effects through time that leave a great deal of complex issues to be ironed out slowly before we can catch up.

About our ancestral organisation and structure, that was destroyed by the colonialists. It had been replaced by those imposes from Europe and to some extend Arabia.

Again, gbam, thank you.

I don't believe on an individual level our IQ is the least among the human races known. The problem is the societal or organisational IQ. Blacks cannot cooperate to achieve a common goal. We cannot build gigantic structures that requires a high level of cooperation by thousands of individuals, ie the Pyramids, the Titanic, the empire state building, etc. We can only excel on individual levels.

There are myriad sociological reasons for this and again, this will take time to even out.

DeepSight:


Alright. Noted. My apologies to Raalsaghul in that regard. Let us drop the condescension both ways.

The thing is my hackles get up when I see talk of racial superiority which I believe is rooted in, if not ignorance, then a lack of deep thought. It is too easy to see one race advanced, and the other less so, and conclude that the advanced race is innately superior or more intelligent. Deeper thought reveals the actual whys and wherefores.



Thank you for noting this - but the effects extend far beyond these. No culture dwelling in such hot parts will develop technologies which have at their root the search for heat. The search for heat in itself is a thing that will very naturally trigger the development of much technology which is heat based and heat reliant. And aside from this, the existence of something such as winter alone, imposes a rigor to planning without which a people would simply die off. Entirely. There is a simple saying that summarizes this: necessity is the mother of invention and that also tells us why there is a spike in inventions during times of war.

I also mentioned geography and one thing that should be noted is the way the developed nations of the world are all placed along certain latitudes on the Earth. They are almost all entirely within the temperate zones of the Earth horizontally, from the East end of Russia all the way to the West End of Canada - they fall within a certain geographical band. This is enough to trigger thinking persons towards understanding the reasons for certain things - and aside from this, the geography of that band permitted much movement and trade in knowledge, mix of cultures and spread of technology. Natural barriers - such as Africa's vertical geography and the barrier imposed by the Sahara desert, form part of the reasons for the exclusion of sub-Saharan Africa from much that went on.

This is not true - we do not have the lowest IQ and in this, please be wary of IQ tests which are knowledge based because knowledge is not the same thing as intelligence. Also be careful enough to consider socio-economic factors in your assessment because children from hungry and deprived homes are certainly less likely to excel in school than well fed children from comfortable homes who have access to the best educational tools.

Do you not notice something here about the nations you mentioned? Saudi Arabia and Qatar are both homogenous societies with a single religion and little diversity. Nigeria alone by contrast is more ethnically and linguistically diverse than the whole of Europe put together. Have you stopped to ponder the implication of this on peace, unity and patriotism, factors critical to development? Someone, I think, Gerrard59, pointed this out.

I am glad you note this, especially the bold.

Believe you me, i feel the frustration too. Its not that I don't. But everything takes time. As you noted, Europe didn't arrive at where it is today overnight.

I do commend this response of yours.

I agree.

However, the point where I know we'll have issues is the topic of IQ.

Of course, your assertion is correct. The Flynn effect is also a factor that affects IQ. Environment, food, and climate matters too.

However, considering the heritability of IQ, which is 0.5 and above, and also admixture studies, you'll find out that Flynn's effect fades out with time. Another thing is the effect of genetics begins to play out from teenage age. That means, at an early age environment matters, but as the child crawls passed childhood, genes take over.

@wirinet, this is my take.

Yes, when discussing IQ and other psychological variables, we look at the population level against the individual.

Among Blacks, you can find hundreds of IQs above 100 and 120. Among Whites and Asians, you can also find hundreds of IQs below 85.

You'll always find any race at the left, middle, and right side of the bell curve. However, on a population level, we know who tops and who stays below.

However, this isn't a reason for Africans not to start developing their continent. There are thousands of tools, resources, and human capital to ensure growth. Bilateral and multilateral relationships can be leveraged too.

Recent Paul Graham et English Grammar fiasco got me thinking what if the Western world decides to shun us from using the internet? It's a hypothetical scenario, but what if? We think these people value and respect us, and it's a big lie.

And it's stupid to scream rácism because humans are tribalistic by nature. I wouldn't want too many lemon-green people in my country when the natives are blacks. The same are the thoughts of natives when they find the rise of immigrants in their lands.

It seems we are powerless to do anything. However, we must ask ourselves in what way we can contribute to this development. This is my current position. Except we just want to keep analyzing and discussing problems to no end, probably, till death do us part.

We all can't migrate from Africa to other continents. Even if we do, Black is Black, and "Blacks don't crack".

Thanks.

CaveAdullam:


You'll always find any race at the left, middle, and right side of the bell curve. However, on a population level, we know who tops and who stays below.

And there remain reasons for that. And those reasons are not about the innate superiority of any race.

And it's stupid to scream rácism because humans are tribalistic by nature. I wouldn't want too many lemon-green people in my country when the natives are blacks. The same are the thoughts of natives when they find the rise of immigrants in their lands.

While i hear you on this, the matter sometimes grates on one's nerves particularly with Americans, when one considers that it is a country of immigrants.

DeepSight:


There are myriad sociological reasons for this and again, this will take time to even out.

Can you please state the myriads of sociological questions why 2 or more black Africans can't coperate to achieve a common goal? Cany you also explain why the problem of village people or family issue is present only among the blacks particularly southern Nigerians. Once one blackman escapes poverty and join the elite, he would not truly help his family, his clansmen or those closest to him achieve any measurable success outside giving handouts. If just one indian, Chinese or Jews migrate into a place, before you know it, he will bring his whole extended family into his small apartment. They would share everything from cars, food, clothes, etc., and before you know it, they would gradually buy up the whole area. In the case of Nigerian, they would be sabotaging each other.

How do you explain that psychologically and sociologically?

wirinet:


Can you please state the myriads of sociological questions why 2 or more black Africans can't coperate to achieve a common goal? Cany you also explain why the problem of village people or family issue is present only among the blacks particularly southern Nigerians. Once one blackman escapes poverty and join the elite, he would not truly help his family, his clansmen or those closest to him achieve any measurable success outside giving handouts. If just one indian, Chinese or Jews migrate into a place, before you know it, he will bring his whole extended family into his small apartment. They would share everything from cars, food, clothes, etc., and before you know it, they would gradually buy up the whole area. In the case of Nigerian, they would be sabotaging each other.

How do you explain that psychologically and sociologically?

No, I can't explain what is obviously an unfounded generalization and stereotype.
Secondly even if what you say is true, it would just speak to human nature inter-mixed with cultural norms with some aspect of group solidarity being relevant. It would not speak to any inferiority of the black man or superiority of the Indian.

pansophist:


You come make me dey vex this early morning. Our situation sad, no be small.

Even for abroad sef, no unity. We scam each other, break marriages, operate on competition instead of coperation, and refusal to help ourselves.

Na prosperous African country I use dey console myself, otherwise, we have proved with actions that we are actually inferior to other races.

Na wa

There's no way you won't get some migraines if you just think about the state of Africa for a few minutes.

You will think and get lost in your thoughts. You will sigh. You will hiss. You will shake your head. You will bite your lips. You'll put both hands on your head. You'll walk around the corner. You will analyze and analyze till your brain power gets exhausted.

Yet nothing.

The darkness is too dark.

Our help is still far away.

Sigh.

wirinet:


Yes, Europe was stagnant for 1000 years, but it was not retrogressing. This was mainly due to religious and political conflicts that were rife at he retrogressing as a race and unable to build prosperous and stable societies.
The most annoying to me are Haiti, Guyana and Jamaica. Countries that were handed over to blacks to develop in the middle of the Americas, and we made a mess of them.

France messed up that country. France is a terrible coloniser. French colonies are poorer than their British counterparts. It is one of the reasons I have this belief that whites would not wish blacks to become economically powerful as China because we would avenge many atrocities. As the population of blacks (in Africa) increases, whites will become antsy. This paper talks in-depth about it: https://www.hoover.org/research/africa-2050-demographic-truth-and-consequences

DeepSight:


Thank you for noting this - but the effects extend far beyond these. No culture dwelling in such hot parts will develop technologies which have at their root the search for heat. The search for heat in itself is a thing that will very naturally trigger the development of much technology which is heat based and heat reliant. And aside from this, the existence of something such as winter alone, imposes a rigor to planning without which a people would simply die off. Entirely. There is a simple saying that summarizes this: necessity is the mother of invention and that also tells us why there is a spike in inventions during times of war.

I also mentioned geography and one thing that should be noted is the way the developed nations of the world are all placed along certain latitudes on the Earth. They are almost all entirely within the temperate zones of the Earth horizontally, from the East end of Russia all the way to the West End of Canada - they fall within a certain geographical band. This is enough to trigger thinking persons towards understanding the reasons for certain things - and aside from this, the geography of that band permitted much movement and trade in ave the lowest IQ and in this, please be wary of IQ tests which are knowledge based because knowledge is not the same thing as intelligence. Also be careful enough to consider socio-economic factors in your assessment because children from hungry and deprived homes are certainly less likely to excel in school than well fed children from comfortable homes who have access to the best educational tools.

I once read that theory from this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

Some people oppose his theory, but it has some sense. However, a society in a tropical environment is supposed to invent, innovate and keep improving ways to cool themselves and their items. While too much cold can kill, too much heat can be uncomfortable.

Gerrard59:


I once read that theory from this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

Some people oppose his theory, but it has some sense. However, a society in a tropical environment is supposed to invent, innovate and keep improving ways to cool themselves and their items. While too much cold can kill, too much heat can be uncomfortable.

The heat here in Africa is very uncomfortable but doesn't really kill. The cold in parts of Europe on the other hand does kill, and quickly too. By necessity, they were driven.

CaveAdullam:



I do laugh when Blacks in the diaspora find pride in their works and achievements overseas, seeing it as an opportunity to rank on the same level as their European, Asian, or American counterparts. I'm glad of their achievements though. Happy for them. However, the White Man still dominates.

The White man is the template for Black's progress. It may not be so in the past. But that's the case now. And they can do to the Black race as they are currently doing. So what's the essence of the King Kong attitude?

We don't even care about nation-building and development as individuals. Everywhere you go in this country, you just see more reasons why the country will continue to remain in the dark. Hardly anyone thinks. Hardly anyone that's logical. Hardly anyone trying to make it work.
starts from the little we can do right now.

Thanks.

It is a coping mechanism, especially from those who can still relate to their African ancestry. I omit African Americans as those ones are culturally detached and for a very long time. It still affect them though as the majority of non-black see black as Africa. However, for those with relatively recent ancestry to Africa chanting mumbo-jumbo, I laugh.

Remi Adekoya has written many articles, and finally a book, (https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-About-Whiteness-Wealth/dp/1408716666) on the issue of racism and wealth, but surprisingly, none of these black folks in the diaspora dey think of: why can't we have a successful black country to call our own? At least begin dey find way to implement the knowledge wey dem don garner so far. I watched a video by one second-generation British-Nigerian finance chick who is living in Dubai. She likes the place, but admits it is not a place to raise black children (technically admitting she would marry a black man as Dubai is not fair to black women with regards to dating) based on her upbringing in the UK. She complains of the lack of Black Dubai as that is where she would have raised her children. This is what the Chinese have achieved - alternatives to Mainland China, but still retaining Chinese dominance, safety and prosperity.

In this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/5886610/racism-against-blacks-reduce-drastically I mentioned that should black Africa be prosperous, many African Americans would gladly return. People tend to forget the importance of living amongst folks who look like you. Humans are tribal.

CaveAdullam:


There's no way you won't get some migraines if you just think about the state of Africa for a few minutes.

You will think and get lost in your thoughts. You will sigh. You will hiss. You will shake your head. You will bite your lips. You'll put both hands on your head. You'll walk around the corner. You will analyze and analyze till your brain power gets exhausted.

Yet nothing.

The darkness is too dark.

Our help is still far away.

Sigh.

The darkness truly is too dark my friend, and it saddens me to no end.

Have you ever been in a situation where you are bored of crying? As in, your soul mourns in helpless agony, acceptance is useless because the reminder of the problems are everywhere?

That the victims unknowingly due to the need to survive, ignorance, and a weak soul, keep perpetuating the very rot that made them impoverished in the first place?

An example is a Lagos tout, how he oppresses his fellow uneducated okada man trying to survive and provide for his family, but the tout is too stupid to be aware of the fact that he is among a pyramid of serfs, where those on top uses him, while he punishes the helpless one?

I witnessed one time when Lagos officials chased a northerner selling yam, he left his wheelbarrow and fled, and then they took his yam inside their van and left. Someone's source of livelihood vanished.

I was so pained. The police officers forget that they may feel powerful, but in the hands of a doctor who will save their children's lives, they are powerless. The police is more concerned about the embezzlement of the day, but forget that the wickedness you do comes back from others to you, probably from your pension officer, to your food seller.

The first step to development is just being good to your fellow countrymen. if you are the president, policeman, doctor, whatever, do good. Then it trickles down.

This was exactly what Jesus experienced on the cross of Calvary. When he said ''Father forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing'' The very people you are trying to save, who need help, are the ones pouring fuel in the fire that will roast them.

The same boys who will complain that there is no job, are the same boys who will burn someone to death because he stole bread while posting it online. Investors will see all these, and won't invest, but these youths are so daft to see that their actions make them suffer somehow.

My eyes opened wide to the rot of our society when I left the continent over a decade ago. I was depressed about it, but now its more of endurance, because acceptance is just not possible.

That was what Rasaalgaul meant when he said that he has to live with the fact that he is black, even if he is smart, refined, and doesn't act like the stereotypical. Group success triumphs over individual success perhaps.

Gerrard59:


I once read that theory from this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

Some people oppose his theory, but it has some sense. However, a society in a tropical environment is supposed to invent, innovate and keep improving ways to cool themselves and their items. While too much cold can kill, too much heat can be uncomfortable.

Oh so you have read this book by Jared Diamond?

I am currently on Chapter 13.

CaveAdullam:
There's no way you won't get some migraines if you just think about the state of Africa for a few minutes.

You will think and get lost in your thoughts. You will sigh. You will hiss. You will shake your head. You will bite your lips. You'll put both hands on your head. You'll walk around the corner. You will analyze and analyze till your brain power gets exhausted.

Yet nothing.

The darkness is too dark.

Our help is still far away. Sigh.

Very apt.

I've been working from home since 2020 and when Tinubu made the Pres election ballot and being a Lagosian who has first hand knowledge of how Tinubu has been looting the Lagos treasury for the past 25 years and counting, I started getting really worried about what a Tinubu Presidency will mean for Nigeria's treasury and what it will mean for those of us in diaspora who having lived in saner climes may now choose consciously not to live in a Nigeria ruled by a kleptomaniac heroin dealer called Tinubu and will prefer to stay put in diaspora as against seeing daily the flaunting of wealth and power by the likes of MC Oluomo and Tinubu's gang of killer thugs and election criminals.

That time is upon us now as Tinubu eventually rigged and bribed his way into Aso rock and it only means that even if those in diaspora come back home, what are they coming back to and even when it was not this bad, some came back home but could not work out the "peculiar" rules for business success in Nigeria and so they threw in the towel after a few years and in some cases a few months and then went back abroad. What hope do they have of ever coming back home to Nigeria under the current criminal occupying Aso Rock ?

Even before the elections, when I am supposed to be working from home, I was so distracted with worry about the possibility (now a reality) of Tinubu getting his sticky fingers and greedy eyes on the Nigerian Treasury to the extent that I spent hours on end reading Nigerian news online and later making up the hours late at night to do a full days work.

Now that Nigeria has rescued defeat from the jaws of victory by allowing Tinubu to be in charge of our collective destinies, what next ?

I really pity those who have no way of escaping out of Tinubu's Nigeria.

What Tinubu (who is now richer than Nigeria in just 10 months) will do to Nigeria and Nigerians will be a lesson in history classes the world over. Nigerians underestimated Tinubu's greed for power and stolen wealth with which to perpetuate himself in power for the next 8 years and into perpetuity by installing his cronies just like he has done in Lagos for the past 25 years.

And because we worship money in Nigeria, Tinubu will use the money he has looted from Lagos and that he is currently looting from the Nigerian Treasury to bribe all those in power to do his bidding just like he bribed the Supreme Court Judges to rubber stamp his electoral heist that brought him into Aso Rock.

God help the downtrodden in Nigeria because it is going to get VERY dark under Tinubu.

Raalsalghul:


Oh so you have read this book by Jared Diamond?

I am currently on Chapter 13.

No. I only read the Wikipedia part of the book.