Very interesting

ekt_bear:

It has been hashed out time and time again.

ndu_chucks clearly has a nefarious agenda.

I admit that I do not have any soft spot for traitors who swear under oath, in the presence of a judge, that they absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to Nigeria, but how does this equate to having a nefarious agenda. Kindly move on if you cannot contradict my points - this shrink methodology of yours is unbecoming. olodo

This dual citizenship just rubs me the wrong way somehow. You can't serve two masters, haba.

ndu_chucks:

@violent, I’ve  enjoyed your posts so far and agree with the one above. Indeed a criminal who committed a crime in the US cannot be prosecuted in Nigeria and an extradition is necessary for proper prosecution.

Renunciation of citizenship is however not a crime but is a process recognized internationally. Thus if a dual citizen of the USA/Israeli, committed a crime in Nigeria and escaped to Israel where he went through the legal renunciation process to renounce his USA  citizenship, I submit to you that this criminal will no longer qualify for extradition based on any agreement between Nigeria and the USA – assuming no such agreement exists between Nigeria and Israel.  If you renounce your citizenship of any country, that renunciation is recognized internationally, unlike committing a criminal act.

@pokur, indeed there is a process of renouncing your Nigerian citizenship in Nigeria.  That process does not preclude you from going to another country and doing a renunciation. Renunciation is recognized under international law.  BTW no vex if e be like say, I was hard on you in my first post

Each country has a process of renunciation of citizenship right. 

For example, the U. S. Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) stipulates that anyone wishing to renounce U. S. citizenship must do more than merely claim allegiance to another government. Americans who face prosecution in the United States or who owe back taxes, for example, cannot merely become naturalized citizens of a country that does not have an EXTRADITION agreement with the United States.

Under the terms of INA, anyone who wishes to renounce U. S. citizenship must appear in person before a U. S. consular or diplomatic official and sign an oath of renunciation. This must be done in a foreign country (usually it can be done at a local U. S. Embassy or consulate). Failure to follow these conditions will render the renunciation useless for all practical purposes.

If the Nigerian constitution does not recognize renunciations made/allegiance pledged in foreign courts under foreign constitutions, there would be no basis to "assume" what is not clearly stated in a written constitution.  The constitution operates in a "black or red" fashion, if it is not black, then it must be red, not assumed to be purple..



The black and red part of the constitution states::

28. (1) Subject to the other provisions of this section, a person shall forfeit forthwith his Nigerian citizenship if, not being a citizen of Nigeria by birth, he acquires or retains the citizenship or nationality of a country, other than Nigeria, of which he is not a citizen by birth.

the other part that deals with renunciation states:

Any citizen of Nigeria of full age who wishes to renounce his Nigerian citizenship shall make a declaration in the prescribed manner for the renunciation.

(2) The President shall cause the declaration made under subsection (1) of this section to be registered and upon such registration, the person who made the declaration shall cease to be a citizen of Nigeria.

these are the only parts that deals with the way Nigeria recognizes renunciation of citizenship, it doesn't matter what the person has done in the US or Saudi Arabia!

ndu_chucks:


I admit that I do not have any soft spot for traitors who swear under oath, in the presence of a judge, that they absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to Nigeria, but how does this equate to having a nefarious agenda. Kindly move on if you cannot contradict my points - this shrink methodology of yours is unbecoming. olodo

The Nigerian constitution does not pay allegiance to foreign courts, neither does it enforce decisions/oaths made in the presence of foreign Judges.

The definition and the powers conferred on a Judge/courts in the United states for example may provide them with an authority that when measured against the Nigerian courts will require the powers of the house of assembly or the senate. So also, renunciation of citizenship may require the approval of a Chief Judge according to the Nigerian constitution while a Judge in the United states may only qualify to be a magistrate when defined in the Nigerian context.

@violent,

I'm tempted to conclude from your write-up that the Nigerian government can also choose not to recognize your naturalized citizenship since the Nigerian constitution does not pay allegiance to foreign courts. This conclusion ignores international laws. No?

Smart countries like China etc know the value of their citizens that live in advanced societies like the U.S and Europe, that is why they persuade and offer incentives for them to come home to help build their nations. In Nigeria people like Ndu- Chucks and co. cannot with stand somebody that has more knowledge than them.

looker:

Smart countries like China etc know the value of their citizens that live in advanced societies like the U.S and Europe, that is why they persuade and offer incentives for them to come home to help build their nations. In Nigeria people like Ndu- Chucks and co. cannot with stand somebody that has more knowledge than them.

o boy, how did you reach the conclusion that i cannot stand somebody that has more knowledge than me? I love such people, I employ them, olodo. Who are you re? and why did you chose your very second post to attack me? i hope you are not the husband of the lady who ran off with me last week. dan iska.

ndu_chucks:

@violent,

I'm tempted to conclude from your write-up that the Nigerian government can also choose not to recognize your naturalized citizenship since the  Nigerian constitution does not pay allegiance to foreign courts. This conclusion ignores international laws. No?

International legal system differ from national legal systems in that the former is mainly concerning individual countries and not citizens, international laws are only binding on citizens if national laws delegate jurisdictions to supranational courts such as the European Courts of Human rights or in cases where a citizen of a particular country is involved in either of:  Genocide, War crimes, crimes against humanity or war of aggression! in this case, the International Criminal court

Britain as an example, has delegated jurisdictions on private cases involving its citizen's human right to the European Courts of Human rights.  This meant that an European court can overrule decisions made by the Lord Chief Justice of England.  There's been a recent consultation in Britain to examine whether or not to cut off the powers that have been delegated to the European courts in other to give British Judges the final say on individual rights of its citizen.

Citizenship is an entirely national issue, there are countries who recognize dual citizenship, there are others who don't and in the case where a country's constitution has not delegated it's jurisdiction to a supranational body, it's constitution maintains the final say!

In the eyes of the Nigerian government, you are first and foremost a Nigerian citizen, especially if you are one by birth. . .and since the constitution allows for dual citizenship, the Nigerian government is obliged by[b] its own constitution [/b]to recognize your naturalized citizenship, and not just that, it has laid down procedures for individuals wishing to renounce their citizenship. . . it states clearly that this must be approved by the President and also recorded,. . . . . only then do you cease to be a Nigerian citizen (in the eyes of the Nigerian government, by the Nigerian constitution).

gabbytabby:

kATSUMOTO IS CORRECT YOU DO NOT NEED TO GIVE UP THE CITIZENSHIP of your country of birth to take up US citizenship despite what the oat might say.  

I will take you to the link if i have the time.

I don't think so. Part of the process of Naturalization is getting you to understand the significance of taking that Oath, and there have been many a person's who have pondered that decision really carefully. In America, the Oath holds.  An Oath may not matter for much elsewhere but when you take that Oath, the understanding is that you have renounced your allegiance to another previous homes to claim America as your one and only. I do believe you sign the statement as well.

Kobojunkie:

I don't think so. Part of the process of Naturalization is getting you to understand the significance of taking that Oath, and there have been many a person's who have pondered that decision really carefully. In America, the Oath holds.  An Oath may not matter for much elsewhere but when you take that Oath, the understanding is that you have renounced your allegiance to another previous homes to claim America as your one and only. I do believe you sign the statement as well.

wrong!

Basically, dual citizenship is only considered acceptable by the US government if it is the result of birth in a foreign country or marriage to a citizen of a foreign country. If US citizen applies for citizenship elsewhere, he or she must forfeit his or her American citizenship, and vice versa. if the case above doesnt apply

looker:

Smart countries like China etc know the value of their citizens that live in advanced societies like  the U.S and Europe, that is why they persuade and offer incentives for them to come home to help build their nations. In Nigeria people like Ndu- Chucks and co. cannot with stand somebody that has more knowledge than them.

@Looker, I am sorry but your comment is dull. How would you in your own understanding think that knowledge is a pre-requisite to granting citizenship to foreigners in US and E.U? (The major qualification is your duration of legal residence, no criminal record, and your financial status. education or exposure is not a pre-requisite)
Or do u feel so inferior that he who flashes a U.S passport in your face is automatically more knowledgeable than you? What you don't know is that real scholars and professionals might even find it difficult to pick up citizenship of any country because they are moving from one country to another as demanded by the nature of their chosen career such as research collaborations, employment contracts etc. Unless you are so committed to being a citizen of one of the countries u have lived, U may then settle your family there even if you can't achieve an uninterrupted stay and claim residence of such country (cos ur family is there and ur residence is registered in your or you and your wife's name) and rely on that to apply for naturalization having managed such condition for more than 5 yrs. Have u seen the complexity? U need to stay local to one country b4 u can conveniently apply for naturalization.

So therefore, u really do not need to become citizen of US or wherever to tap knowledge anywhere, unless you are on a mission espionage. The major reason why Nigerians are naturalizing is because Nigeria as a country is known for more negative stuffs than positive and as a result, its often difficult in some ramifications to manouver your way up in the international context while to others, they just want to be covered with the concomitant advantages of being a US, UK or Canadian citizen etc.

Attorneys would always have something to say even when they clearly know they're on the wrong side. The issue of dual-citizenship is already a forgone conclusion as it's explicitly and unequivocally stated in the statutes that you cannot hold a citizenship of another nation and remain eligible to contest and/or occupy a political office in Nigeria.

Ajimobi vehemently refuted holding american citizenship and the PDP's suit against him was dismissed by the presiding judge based on the inability of the petitioner(PDP)to discharge their burden of proof as the onus is on them(PDP)

As soon as the PDP's able to lay their hands on some iron-clad evidential proof,the matter would return to the appelate court.

Ben Bruce on the other hand opted not to waste his funds on needless litigations apparently after having consulted the land's most renowned and respected jurists and legal luminaries whom must have told him he's actually ineligible!

If we are to go by the claim that u must come down to nigeria to make appropriate renunciation before the country will start regarding u as a non-citizen, that means the law about dual citizenship is null. i wouldn't see the reason someone will border himself with the process of coming back to nigeria, when he has achieved his aim over there.

Βουκέφαλος:

wrong!

Basically, dual citizenship is only considered acceptable by the US government if it is the result of birth in a foreign country or marriage to a citizen of a foreign country. If US citizen applies for citizenship elsewhere, he or she must forfeit his or her American citizenship, and vice versa. if the case above doesnt apply

Please re-read my post you chose to respond to there. My post was on people NATURALIZING, and not on ALREADY EXISTING US Citizens seeking citizenship elsewhere.

As someone already pointed out, there is an option NOW available to allow people bipass the oath, but like he also said, majority do not go for it. Some would argue that it leaves them vulnerable to changes in their home country, and so they chose instead to take the original Oath.

I saw a documentary recently on a polish immigrant fighting the decision to take the Oath to renounce or not. Quite interesting movie. It was on LinkTV -- can't remember the name but you might benefit from watching it.

Olalekan 0:

Attorneys would always have something to say even when they clearly know they're on the wrong side. The issue of dual-citizenship is already a forgone conclusion as it's explicitly and unequivocally stated in the statutes that you cannot hold a citizenship of another nation and remain eligible to contest and/or occupy a political office in Nigeria.

Kindly post the section(s) of the constitution or electoral act that makes this 'explicit and unequivocal' statement.

Look gentlemen and Ladies,

Common sense says that if you do not love Nigeria to want to die or sink with her all all cost at all times; you do not deserve to lead us.

Especially when we know the impact of espionage. Though not a lawyer, I believe the Nigeria constitution bars anybody that holds a foreign allegiance from holding public office. It is just a common sense. The guy that mentioned China is wrong. There is much gap between living, schooling and working in a foreign country to holding an allegiance to them: be it citizenship or any other thing.

If I am to vote or decide: those that hold foreign citizenship (except by birth and you are supposed to denounce it) cannot hold public office. Because in our world, countries are in a competition ( : Economic and what have you) and it will suicidal as is the case presently in Nigeria for people that protects the interest of foreign countries to rule us.

Olalekan 0:

Attorneys would always have something to say even when they clearly know they're on the wrong side. The issue of dual-citizenship is already a forgone conclusion as it's explicitly and unequivocally stated in the statutes that you cannot hold a citizenship of another nation and remain eligible to contest and/or occupy a political office in Nigeria.

Ajimobi vehemently refuted holding american citizenship and the PDP's suit against him was dismissed by the presiding judge based on the inability of the petitioner(PDP)to discharge their burden of proof as the onus is on them(PDP)

As soon as the PDP's able to lay their hands on some iron-clad evidential proof,the matter would return to the appelate court.

Ben Bruce on the other hand opted not to waste his funds on needless litigations apparently after having consulted the land's most renowned and respected jurists and legal luminaries whom must have told him he's actually ineligible!

I completely agree with the above post.

@violent, there are too many holes in your last post. For now, I'll simply agree to disagree with your position.

For the information of readers, let me state here that many years ago, I attended a friend's naturalization ceremony in the USA wherein, passports of the old countries of participants were collected after the said oath was taken - food for thought.

ndu_chucks:

I completely agree with the above post.

@violent, there are too many holes in your last post. For now, I'll simply agree to disagree with your position.

For the information of readers, let me state here that many years ago, I attended a friend's naturalization ceremony in the USA wherein, passports of the old countries of participants were collected after the said oath was taken - food for thought.

I'd rather you point out the holes than simply agreeing to disagree.

violent:
In the eyes of the Nigerian government, you are first and foremost a Nigerian citizen, especially if you are one by birth. . .and since the constitution allows for dual citizenship, the Nigerian government is obliged by its own constitution to recognize your naturalized citizenship, and not just that, it has laid down procedures for individuals wishing to renounce their citizenship. . . it states clearly that this must be approved by the President and also recorded,. . . . . only then do you cease to be a Nigerian citizen (in the eyes of the Nigerian government, by the Nigerian constitution).

The above is factually correct for the most part. The bolded above has not yet been fully tested in our courts, the supreme court is yet to rule on whether a Nigerian who renounces his citizenship abroad remains a Nigerian citizen despite the legal renunciation. Until this is tested, and we hear from the supreme court on this issue, I remain in disagreement with you on the matter.

ndu_chucks:

I completely agree with the above post.

@violent, there are too many holes in your last post. For now, I'll simply agree to disagree with your position.

For the information of readers, let me state here that many years ago, I attended a friend's naturalization ceremony in the USA wherein, passports of the old countries of participants were collected after the said oath was taken - food for thought.

That is a big fat lie!!! US Govt. do no take you passport but your green card.

Ndu -Chucks or what is your name, you employ who? ''Typical'' Look at your head. Go and look for a job. No i forgot you employ them boss!!! You are full of shit!!! what is ''Who are you re?'' Ewu. I don't even have the time to reply you again.

ndu_chucks:

The above is factually correct for the most part. The bolded above has not yet been fully tested in our courts, the supreme court is yet to rule on whether a Nigerian who renounces his citizenship abroad remains a Nigerian citizen despite the legal renunciation. Until this is tested, and we hear from the supreme court on this issue, I remain in disagreement with you on the matter.

well then, i'd suppose the same argument applies to the bolded part of your post. It's up to the supreme court to decide if the renunciation is legal by the Nigerian constitution!

@violent
You taught ndu_chucks some serious lessons in LAW. Thanks bro.

Folks make this debate simple for me, Assuming one is born in the UK ( a British citizen by birth) with both Nigerian parents) raised in Nigeria, served in the NYSC and holds a Nigerian passsport and lives in Nigeria as well. Does that mean that this individual is not allowed by law to contest for elections in Nigeria except he/she renounces the british citizenship??

Onlytruth:

@violent
You taught ndu_chucks some serious lessons in LAW. Thanks bro.

nwannem, kedu kordi? How body na?

I hope you are bright enough to understand that the supreme court has the final say on the interpretation of our constitution. I believe violent implicitly agrees that the supreme court will clarify soon enough, whether your renunciation of Nigerian citizenship(olodo, I know you took the said oath) has rendered you a foreigner in your father's land.

violent is not a childish unrepentant abriba biafran like you. Learn from the exchange of views we've had on this thread. Now run along and return to the hole from which you crawled out. By the way, Okwute Egyptians piafuka gi isi along the way. dan iska 

Posted by: ndu_chucks

nwannem, kedu kordi? How body na?

I hope you are bright enough to understand that the supreme court has the final say on the interpretation of our constitution. I believe violent implicitly agrees that the supreme court will clarify soon enough, whether your renunciation of Nigerian citizenship(olodo, I know you took the said oath) has rendered you a foreigner in your father's land.

violent is not a childish unrepentant abriba biafran like you. Learn from the exchange of views we've had on this thread. Now run along and return to the hole from which you crawled out. By the way, Okwute Egyptians piafuka gi isi along the way. dan iska

Yaya aiki megida?
You know that I am a VERY PROUD American.
About Naija citizenship, the Biafran question has not been answered to my satisfaction yet, so grab a cool aid.
Always remember that the world is not a zero sum game.
Smart countries know that they can share smart people with just one other country.
So, work hard and fix naija up to attract me back, else, I would advise you to shove your citizenship where the sun never shines. The burden is on YOU. dan banza.

Onlytruth:

Posted by: ndu_chucks
Yaya aiki megida?
You know that I am a VERY PROUD American.
About Naija citizenship, the Biafran question has not been answered to my satisfaction yet, so grab a cool aid.
Always remember that the world is not a zero sum game.
Smart countries know that they can share smart people with just one other country.
So, work hard and fix naija up to attract me back, else, I would advise you to shove your citizenship where the sun never shines. The burden is on YOU. dan banza.

Contrary to what you may believe, I actually think that the idea that dual citizens should be prevented from contesting for political offices in Nigeria is dumb.

What I find objectionable is the idea of giving a naturalized US citizen like you, who carelessly took the said oath, the right to run for office and potentially rule the same country, who’s citizenship he/she has renounced under oath, in a court of law in the USA.

Stop claiming to be an American - you are a bloody unrepentant Abriba Biafran at heart.

jikings:

Folks make this debate simple for me, Assuming one is born in the UK ( a British citizen by birth) with both Nigerian parents) raised in Nigeria, served in the NYSC and holds a Nigerian passsport and lives in  Nigeria as well. Does that mean that this individual is not allowed by law to contest for elections in Nigeria except he/she renounces the british citizenship??

@Jikings, the bone of contention here is naturalization. The scenario u have brought to the fore has nothing to do with it. Following the instance u gave in your comment, such person is a dual citizen (Nig&U.K) by birth. As a result such individuals have unlimited rights in both countries. Unless in some cases where their might be "artificial restrictions" due to mere discrimination and not due to legal dictations.

Posted by: ndu_chucks

Contrary to what you may believe, I actually think that the idea that dual citizens should be prevented from contesting for political offices in Nigeria is dumb.

What I find objectionable is the idea of giving a naturalized US citizen like you, who carelessly took the said oath, the right to run for office and potentially rule the same country, who’s citizenship he/she has renounced under oath, in a court of law in the USA.

Stop claiming to be an American - you are a bloody unrepentant Abriba Biafran at heart.

@bolded
I am deeply offended and insulted by your idiotic conjectures.
You ( a desert rat who made my life HELL in the land of my birth) is not in any position to question where my heart lies. To insult the USA -a land that has given me much much more than your murderous land- deeply offends me.

Watch your steps aboki! You are WAY out of line now.

Onlytruth:

Posted by: ndu_chucks @bolded
I am deeply offended and insulted by your idiotic conjectures.
You ( a desert rat who made my life HELL in the land of my birth) is not in any position to question where my heart lies. To insult the USA -a land that has given me much much more than your murderous land- deeply offends me.

Watch your steps aboki! You are WAY out of line now.

nwannem, I am tempted to question your brightness o. Apparently you are ignorant of the fact that you could have elected to recite the Oath which does not include the bit about renouncing your Nigerian citizenship.  That to me is carelessness to say the least.  Your newfound emotional states is dumbfounding - I may need to grab you by your Ojukwu look alike bear bear and biatch slap you back to reality. olodo.

I don't understand your rants at all, were you born in the east? If so how in the world did I make your life hell - what da heck are you on about?

Posted by: ndu_chucks

nwannem, I am tempted to question your brightness o. Apparently you are ignorant of the fact that you could have elected to recite the Oath which does not include the bit about renouncing your Nigerian citizenship.  That to me is carelessness to say the least. Your newfound emotional states is dumbfounding - I may need to grab you by your Ojukwu look alike bear bear and biatch slap you back to reality. olodo.

I don't understand your beef at all, were you born in the east? If so how in the world did I make your life hell - what da heck are you on about?

chei   there is nothing Onlytruth won't hear in Nairaland!

So, you (an avowed mass murderer whose region is killing my people as we speak) is now questioning the decision of a survivor like myself to pitch his love and loyalty with his adopted country?
Nna this conversation is over. Take my advice and stop making a fool of yourself.