@cgift,

My prayers go follow you many days ahead! Plus the one I make earlier: blessed will your family be among all the nations of the earth.

@Backslider,

Backslider:

The catholic Church now is a Backsliden church. Those that worship therein now are a people that trooping into the dragons belly.

. . .
Their Ministers are now possessed with the devil and they display Immorality to greatest height.

Their Demon Possessed Pope is brandishing sin openly. The pope is an agent of the devil in disguise. There are other people that call themselves Men of God but are Men of Satan., . .

It's quite sad to read your outburst earlier; but it would only weaken the effort to reach out to people whom wed esire to encourage back to Biblical integrity. One of the marvelous helps of the Holy Spirit is the ability to demonstrate LOVE to the erring; and continued denunciations like that is not going to serve any purpose. This is what I've severally tried to caution about discussants being respectful of the convictions of others: let genuine love endure - and be more ready to speak healthy words rather than outright condemnations with curses.

Remember this:

"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue,
but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain." (James 1:26)

Let's endeavour to hold backk our tongues from pronouncing unwarranted curses on ANYONE. The lack of self-control over our tongues is clearly an indication of "vain religion" - and I've known quite a few people who have made their religion 'vain' by not bridling their tongues.

Let me encourage you to continually stand for God's truth, dear brother - and let His love ever flavour all you do for His Name.

@ebos,

How body? I was quite occupied all morning; but a few quick comments to some of the things you stated:

ebos:

Certainly, interpretations and people change to suit themselves by their level of understanding – but the Protestants have no chance of recognizing real change – if they cannot recognize and accept their inability to discern the true interpretation of the scripture. Obviously, problem they will continue to create for themselves and not Christianity itself.

Certainly, warnings about people coming after the apostles to misinterpret and change God's WORD abound in Scripture - and that is why the apostles constantly urged believers to "watch" (cf. Acts 20:31 - 'therefore watch and remember').

It's easy to accuse Protestants of an inability to discern the true interpretation of Scripture; whereas the irony of it all is that Catholics have the trademark of DISAVOWING it! How many times have Catholics themselves (including you, ebos) made clear that you do not believe all truth is in Scripture? That is at the micro level; but at the macro level, it is on record that the Vatican officially held the postion of no longer swearing by the truth of the Bible!

See, my dear friend, we understand that the RCC has the penchant of anathemising non-Catholics; and it does not surprise us that you're dyed in the same colour of trying to diplomatically denounce Protestants. Bottomline is that we've come so close to seeing how you guys prefer "Catholicism" above "Biblical Christianity" - and you've proven the distinctions many times already! Between us, Protestants have not sought to argue 'traditions' as much as Catholics have severally tried to slave themselves on "Catholicism".

Please have recourse to the Bible - there's no harm in settling your thoughts on God's sure WORD. It is the diehard attitude of disavowing Scripture that silences Catholics when we discuss Christianity in any thread.

Shalom.

ebos:

Cgift

Your bible interpretation is the one you saw the word “Except” and quickly quoted it to back your point, but on the other hand, you turned a blind eye to another “Except” used by Jesus in John 3:5. Does the word except not enough to baptize a child hence Christ did not say except a Man and Woman are baptized of Water and Spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God. If Christ had said so, we would have known that infants are exempted from His Command. But He said NO ONE- so, No One include infants.

The word except you quoted to back your point has a different meaning from the one I quoted? That is the kind of bible interpretation your Pastors are parading. Good guy!

@ebos,

It is clear that when the Lord Jesus Christ used the word "except" in John 3:5, He was not speaking of the Catholic inclusion of INFANT Baptism. We've been through this much earlier about a month ago, and I discussed the point extensively in just 3 outlines:

(a) Jesus acknowledged, and even baptized, others who came to Him
- -  John 3:22, 26 (see also ch. 4:1-2)

(b) But Jesus did NOT baptize children but simply blessed them -
- - Mark 10:13-16

(c) The crucified thief was promised paradise WITHOUT having been baptized
- - Luke 23:41-43

Having discussed them, I also left you just two basic questions and a request:

Q.1. Can we in all honesty ask if the Catholic Church preaches the Gospel to infants
before administering baptism by water?

Q.2. WHERE did Jesus ever baptize any INFANT?

R.1. If Jesus baptized INFANTS, please ebos show it!

Links:
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-74061.160.html#msg1435500)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-74061.160.html#msg1435805)

It is yet interesting that even when you never addressed the questions above, you're still shlepping the same unsubstantiated persuasion of "INFANT Baptism" here on the premise of the word "except".   No wahala, here are a few teasers for you:

The occurence of the word "except" does not include infants - see the following examples:


* Matt. 18:3 --  "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted,
and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Question: does the Catholic Church seek to "convert" INFANTS as well?



* Luke 13:3 -- "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Question: what do INFANTS in the Catholic Church need to "repent" from?



* John 6:53 -- "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood,
ye have no life in you."

Question: since Catholics take this verse as pointing to the Communion,
do Catholic priests serve the Communion to INFANTS?



Now ebos from the foregoing, you should be able to pick out whichever case suits your persuasions about the small word "except" - and then apply your own rules to it, and see what is left of your burst bubble. Whether it is "conversion" or "repentance" or yet the "Communion", make your pick and apply to the word INFANT and let me know which one the Catholic Church practises.

You see, it is easy to sit behind a PC and argue about words to no profit when in very fact they are only mindless theories that have no practical implimentation in the RCC. So, if you argue that the word "except" is the affirmation for INFANT BAPTISM, then you'd first have to clarify HOW the Catholic Church preaches 'conversion, repentance and communion' to infants! Please do so and let's read from you.

Cheers.

Our minds can be deceived, and so can the minds of bishops and popes. Only the Bible is totally trustworthy. The Bible warns us:

“Beware lest any man spoil [ruin] you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” (Colossians 2:

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” (Proverbs 14:12; also see Proverbs 16:25)

When religious traditions conflict with the plain meaning of Scripture, then we need to discard those traditions. We cannot afford to do otherwise, because our eternal destiny is at stake.

@Pilgrim,

If there is any portion of the bible that preaches against Infant baptism, please show it. Again, please tell us how harmful is infant baptism to Christianity or let us know any of the apostles that condemned infant baptism. Please, we want to see it, please show it.

My guys, good morning and how was your independence day celebration?

Over the weekend, i was just going through my bible and settld on Matthew Chapter 15. I will like to just curl it verbatim from the KJV and allow people to see for themselves what we have in the bible:

Matthew 15:1 ¶Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I think these things speak for themselves. In summary:

[list]
[li]Pharisees (figuratively Catholics now), have traditions. verse 2 and expect disciples (protestants figuratively) to abide by those traditions.[/li]
[li]Jesus confronted them saying, why do you also invalidate Gods commandments by the so-called traditions (since they are not in line with the scriptures)?[/li]
[li]Jesus concludes, their segmented 'worship of Jesus' of Him (Jesus) is vanity (futile, not accepted, no effect, waste of time, etc) because, they only transcribe into doctrines the commandments of mere men.[/li]
[/list]

My submissions.

@Cgift,

Jesus Christ teachings on what you just posted were they parables or he meant it literaly to the Pharisees? If Jesus meant it literally and directed it to the Pharisses, why now do you liken the same Pharisees who were not Christians and never believed in Jesus with Catholics who are Christians and believed in Jesus, who even brought Christianity to you? Do you now want to teach a Church (Catholic) that brought you out from your idol worship to Christianity? It is amazing.

ebos:
Jesus Christ teachings on what you just posted were they parables or he meant it literaly to the Pharisees?

Jesus did not use those words in the figurative sense.

ebos:
If Jesus meant it literally and directed it to the Pharisses, why now do you liken the same Pharisees who were not Christians and never believed in Jesus with Catholics who are Christians and believed in Jesus,

I hope the meaning of my submission was not lost on you? As we have frequently avowed and proven on this forum, the doctrines of Catholicism have a serious contradiction with the commandments of God. We now have a perfect picture of what obtains now in what Christ experienced directly in his earthly days. It therefore gives a very good analogy.

Just like the Pharisees who had contraditions wth the bible, the RCC have contradictions. Christ told them that those traditions should not violate the commandments fo God as i tell you now that your traditions (oral, as you are wont to say), should not violate the commandments of God. QED. The same old song we protestants have been singing.

ebos:
who even brought Christianity to you? Do you now want to teach a Church (Catholic) that brought you out from your idol worship to Christianity? It is amazing.

Well, it does not matter who brought christainity. What matters now is that the beneficiaries (i.e., protestants - according to ebos,) of the largesse of the 'founders' or 'originators' of christainity (Catholics - as you claim), do not revel in the light of those same falsities that their benefactors glory in.

Before I forget, How was the weeked? I hope the weekend was ok for all of us

pilgrim.1:

@ebos,

How body? I was quite occupied all morning; but a few quick comments to some of the things you stated:

Certainly, warnings about people coming after the apostles to misinterpret and change God's WORD abound in Scripture - and that is why the apostles constantly urged believers to "watch" (cf. Acts 20:31 - 'therefore watch and remember').

It's easy to accuse Protestants of an inability to discern the true interpretation of Scripture; whereas the irony of it all is that Catholics have the trademark of DISAVOWING it! How many times have Catholics themselves (including you, ebos) made clear that you do not believe all truth is in Scripture? That is at the micro level; but at the macro level, it is on record that the Vatican officially held the postion of no longer swearing by the truth of the Bible!

See, my dear friend, we understand that the RCC has the penchant of anathemising non-Catholics; and it does not surprise us that you're dyed in the same colour of trying to diplomatically denounce Protestants. Bottomline is that we've come so close to seeing how you guys prefer "Catholicism" above "Biblical Christianity" - and you've proven the distinctions many times already! Between us, Protestants have not sought to argue 'traditions' as much as Catholics have severally tried to slave themselves on "Catholicism".

Please have recourse to the Bible - there's no harm in settling your thoughts on God's sure WORD. It is the diehard attitude of disavowing Scripture that silences Catholics when we discuss Christianity in any thread.

Shalom.

@pilgrim,

Check out all our posts you will discover the bolded statements apply best on Protestants. I have not been decorated any colour because such allegation against Catholics is false and unnecessary. I believe both Catholics and Protestants are worshipping the same Living God but my problem with you guys is the Protestants holier-than-thou-attitude. There is no doubt that more Catholics will make heaven than you guys. Though, my prayer is for everybody to make heaven.

You have a little knowledge of the scripture - interpretation is your problem. I also believe you were converted newly and that is how any new convert behaves. You will get tired very soon and then you will begin to see Catholics as real Christians. I have seen your kind before. This is why I prefer to be delicate with you because my conscious tells me you are certainly a new convert. That was why I tried to know when you were converted in the other thread.

Cheers!

ebos:
I believe both Catholics and Protestants are worshipping the same Living God but my problem with you guys is the Protestants holier-than-thou-attitude.

No! That's being mischievious. You have not hit the nail on the head. Your problem with Protestants is that they read the bible and you don't.

ebos:
There is no doubt that more Catholics will make heaven than you guys. Though, my prayer is for everybody to make heaven.

Another fallacy. But wait a minute! I am beginning to waver in my opinion about you ebos. I sincerely doubt (with all due respect) if you really know the RCC and the papal quotes. I can quote as many popes as possible who said categorically or by inference / extrapolation that there is no other way of salvation except though the RCC. Are you sure you are on top of this game or you want to beg to differ from your popes You know that is heretic once you differ from your popes and you should be anathemised

If on the other hand, in the depths of your heart you differ from this people, why don't you just live them and stop all this mis-directed defence? Between you and me, we know they (your defences) hold no water.

ebos:
You have a little knowledge of the scripture - interpretation is your problem.

It is with that little meal (five loaves of bread and two fishes) that Christ fed a whole multitude. All that Christ wants is that little knowledge and little faith as small as a mustard seed and see what he will do with it. That same little knowledge of hers has always found you and your brethren wanting and at loss for words in the hot-biblical-exchanges. So if she has little, I guess, you and your cronies haven't even started!

ebos:
I also believe you were converted newly and that is how any new convert behaves. You will get [b]tired [/b]very soon and then you will begin to see Catholics as real Christians.

I rebuke that on her behalf in Jesus' name. - and pray that no form of tiredness can make us see black and call it white as your priests and popes have sworn to do (you want to see this also - dare ask me!). They will rather uphold lies and falsehood than any contrary opinions.

ebos:
I have seen your kind before. This is why I prefer to be delicate with you because my conscious tells me you are certainly a new convert. That was why I tried to know when you were converted in the other thread.

Her date of conversion does not apply here. I guess you have hard about Paul (formerly Saul) of the bible before. He was converted to Christianity on his way to Damascus, the fire of his love for God only increased from the day he got to know Christ till his death. So my dear brother, I would naturally expect that her message against anti-Christs and their devotees will only increase by the day 'because the bible says in Prov. 4 : 18; But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

[

quote]@Cgift
No! That's being mischievious. You have not hit the nail on the head. Your problem with Protestants is that they read the bible and you don't.

Is it about reading the bible or understanding the Bible, you lack understanding take it or leave it. (My God you people are full of pride, too arrogant).  You don't even understand the Bible like the Catholics do, and that is the fact. (Ka Chineke mezue okwu). 1 peter 5: 5-6 "In the same way you younger people must submit to your elders. And all of you must put on the apron of humility, to serve one another, for the scripture says, "God resist the proud, but shows favour to the humble.

Another fallacy.  But wait a minute! I am beginning to waver in my opinion about you ebos. I sincerely doubt (with all due respect) if you really know the RCC and the papal quotes. I can quote as many popes as possible who said categorically or by inference / extrapolation that there is no other way of salvation except though the RCC. Are you sure you are on top of this game or you want to beg to differ from your popes   You know that is heretic once you differ from your popes and you should be anathemised 

If on the other hand, in the depths of your heart you differ from this people, why don't you just live them and stop all this mis-directed defence? Between you and me, we know they (your defences) hold no water.

I think is high time you guys find another thread where u can gather members into your fold. Do you want to tell me that your pastors have not made any blunder since they started preaching to you guys. 
That the papal quotes says there is no other way of salvation except though the RCC, can i see the quotes? (My God you people are terrible).

Look for other means to get members, maybe u should try the Muslim thread, but fortunately it seems u people are afraid to venture there.

I rebuke that on her behalf in Jesus' name. - and pray that no form of tiredness can make us see black and call it white as your priests and popes have sworn to do (you want to see this also - dare ask me!). They will rather uphold lies and falsehood than any contrary opinions.

Cgift i see hatred written all over you and pride over the prophets of God, remember what happened in 2 Kings 2:23-24, where Elisha was mocked. ( don't let it be your portion) and i pray it won't be your portion in Jesus Name.

Her date of conversion does not apply here. I guess you have hard about Paul (formerly Saul) of the bible before. He was converted to Christianity on his way to Damascus, the fire of his love for God only increased from the day he got to know Christ till his death. So my dear brother, I would naturally expect that her message against anti-Christs and their devotees will only increase by the day 'because the bible says in Prov. 4 : 18; But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.[quote][/quote]

Who are the anti-Christs? Let me know when God has made you Judge over his people. (Cgift i'm sorry to tell you this, you are too Proud, God said if you exalt yourself he will bring you down).

The anti-Christ are among you protestant if you don't know, revelation has been coming concerning it. Both spiritually and physically if you don't know, know it now.

@Ebos, Carlosein, vies, orobo 50cl and others.

I think is high time we stop all these with these people. If they are not for us, then they are against us.

They are still our friends, but please lets stop replying any of their post. I have stopped reading anything they post, just pretend u did not see anything, because i can see the pictures clear.

Please lets tell others to stop replying any of their post.

All their post is full of hatred and this does not encourage us or any other Catholic faithfuls.

If we can't talk about our faith, i'm sorry i have to sign out from this thread.

What is your comment. (or tell Seun to close every catholic thread)

Oby1:

@Ebos, Carlosein, vies, orobo 50cl and others.

I think is high time we stop all these with these people. If they are not for us, then they are against us.

They are still our friends, but please lets stop replying any of their post. I have stopped reading anything they post, just pretend u did not see anything, because i can see the pictures clear.

Please lets tell others to stop replying any of their post.

All their post is full of hatred and this does not encourage us or any other Catholic faithfuls.

If we can't talk about our faith, i'm sorry i have to sign out from this thread.

What is your comment. (or tell Seun to close every catholic thread)

Oby1, You are right. Pilgrim and Cgift have one intention - to discourage some people in Catholic Church, but millions of them cannot move me. It's better to leave them alone. They think they are working for God. They are making statements that boil my mind here.

Oby1:

Is it about reading the bible or understanding the Bible, you lack understanding take it or leave it. (My God you people are full of pride, too arrogant).

Hey! Oby1 tak am easy o. abeg. I no want heart arrest o. So that you no go say na Cgift kpai you o Biko, ntakiri ntakiri (small small) ;

If you see me physically, I guess you wont be able to reconcile the name to the stature. I be one small person. Pride? tufiakwa! Wetin that one be? I am only surprised that you have rechristened an exercise pointing you to the Word of God as "Pride and arrogance". God dey.

Oby1:
You don't even understand the Bible like the Catholics do, and that is the fact. (Ka Chineke mezue okwu).

Who no sabi that one before? Everybody knows that your interpretation of your traditions bible is out of this world! I do not seek your kind of understaning of the bible but the one that will speak the truth when convenient and when not convenient. If it offends you, i'm sorry.

Oby1:
1 peter 5: 5-6 "In the same way you younger people must submit to your elders. And all of you must put on the apron of humility, to serve one another, for the scripture says, "God resist the proud, but shows favour to the humble.

It is not taking me by surprise either. Can i 'assume' that this is the reason why you take what they tell you gbam, just like that without weighing it? You call that submission? Let me educate you with this text: Ephesians 6:1 ¶Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
.

I will obey my parents either physical or spiritual only when it is in the Lord. I will nevertheless honour my father and mother (whether they are sinners or not). In other words, if my father or priests (parents) tells me to go and sin, i will not obey them because sin is not of the Lord. I hope that helps.

Oby1:
I think is high time you guys find another thread where u can gather members into your fold.

Nope! I aint gotten any church. Its just some constructive mind engagements (or so we wanted it to be). Its good to discuss and arrive at logical conclusions as the bible says we should prove all things.

Oby1:
Do you want to tell me that your pastors have not made any blunder since they started preaching to you guys.
That the papal quotes says there is no other way of salvation except though the RCC, can i see the quotes? (My God you people are terrible).

Well, they may have, but like i said in one of my posts, we query them (their words) against the bible and ask qustions. You are not priviledged to do that 'cos you are afraid probably! You say the bible is too difficult to understand! That smacks of intellectual laziness (pardon my choice of words please)

Oby1:
Look for other means to get members, maybe u should try the Muslim thread, but fortunately it seems u people are afraid to venture there.

God is already at work on those sites. We dont put the cart before the horse.

Oby1:
Cgift i see hatred written all over you and pride over the prophets of God, remember what happened in 2 Kings 2:23-24, where Elisha was mocked. ( don't let it be your portion) and i pray it won't be your portion in Jesus Name.

You have slandered my personality with that statemnt. I dont hate. I dont carry grudges. My wife knows that. God knows that i forgive and forget even befor asking for it. If i have said anything that inferred hatred, i willingly swallow the humble pie and say I am deeply sorry. Like Kathryn Khlman said, ", run for that man who cannot ay i am sorry, because he is evil, " I wont hesitate to call you on your phones or send mails to you to apologise but remember, that wont prevent me from telling the hard and bitter truth. We must separate play from pray you know.

When I first meet you as a person, religion is the last thing that strikes my memory. I am introverted and more of a phelg. I am saying this so that you can understand me better.

I am however watching from the sidelines but i think we hav made our positions known.

Glory to Jesus, and Honour to Mary. I have not been able to make use of my PC since morning due to Server problem. I hope I will join today's Devotion.

Catholics - we are lucky, only Catholics knows and understand what they have

@ebos,

ebos:

I have not been able to make use of my PC since morning due to Server problem.

Relax - I sent a virus to your server and crashed it!  
If you like, test am again tomorrow - na the same thing go happen!


Hehe. . . just teasing you!

How body?

ebos:

Catholics - we are lucky, only Catholics knows and understand what they have

Anyhow, we're seeing evidence of how much you know and understand - from all the excuses we've been reading so far! You guys are really 'lucky' to make so many boasts and yet have nothing to say!

Enjoy o jaré!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d9hS2fSSM0&NR=1

My catholic friends, watch the blasphemies,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_SbJRn5jE8

If you are reading this, remember, you are special in the eyes of christ. You need to get out from among them.

Todays Saint 4/10/07

St. Francis of Assisi (1182-1226) 


Francis of Assisi was a poor little man who astounded and inspired the Church by taking the gospel literally—not in a narrow fundamentalist sense, but by actually following all that Jesus said and did, joyfully, without limit and without a mite of self-importance.

Serious illness brought the young Francis to see the emptiness of his frolicking life as leader of Assisi's youth. Prayer—lengthy and difficult—led him to a self-emptying like that of Christ, climaxed by embracing a leper he met on the road. It symbolized his complete obedience to what he had heard in prayer: "Francis! Everything you have loved and desired in the flesh it is your duty to despise and hate, if you wish to know my will. And when you have begun this, all that now seems sweet and lovely to you will become intolerable and bitter, but all that you used to avoid will turn itself to great sweetness and exceeding joy."

From the cross in the neglected field-chapel of San Damiano, Christ told him, "Francis, go out and build up my house, for it is nearly falling down." Francis became the totally poor and humble workman.

He must have suspected a deeper meaning to "build up my house." But he would have been content to be for the rest of his life the poor "nothing" man actually putting brick on brick in abandoned chapels. He gave up every material thing he had, piling even his clothes before his earthly father (who was demanding restitution for Francis' "gifts" to the poor) so that he would be totally free to say, "Our Father in heaven." He was, for a time, considered to be a religious "nut," begging from door to door when he could not get money for his work, bringing sadness or disgust to the hearts of his former friends, ridicule from the unthinking.

But genuineness will tell. A few people began to realize that this man was actually trying to be Christian. He really believed what Jesus said: "Announce the kingdom! Possess no gold or silver or copper in your purses, no traveling bag, no sandals, no staff" (see Luke 9:1-3).

Francis' first rule for his followers was a collection of texts from the Gospels. He had no idea of founding an order, but once it began he protected it and accepted all the legal structures needed to support it. His devotion and loyalty to the Church were absolute and highly exemplary at a time when various movements of reform tended to break the Church's unity.

He was torn between a life devoted entirely to prayer and a life of active preaching of the Good News. He decided in favor of the latter, but always returned to solitude when he could. He wanted to be a missionary in Syria or in Africa, but was prevented by shipwreck and illness in both cases. He did try to convert the sultan of Egypt during the Fifth Crusade.

During the last years of his relatively short life (he died at 44) he was half blind and seriously ill. Two years before his death, he received the stigmata, the real and painful wounds of Christ in his hands, feet and side.

On his deathbed, he said over and over again the last addition to his Canticle of the Sun, "Be praised, O Lord, for our Sister Death." He sang Psalm 141, and at the end asked his superior to have his clothes removed when the last hour came and for permission to expire lying naked on the earth, in imitation of his Lord.

Quote

"We adore you and we bless you, Lord Jesus Christ, here and in all the churches which are in the whole world, because by your holy cross you have redeemed the world" (St. Francis).

Saint Francis of Assisi (1182-1226)

It was the same Saint Francis of Assisi [common known to Catholics as the Patron Saint of Animals and the Environment] who had a reputation for the most confused set of religious ideologies in the history of the Roman Catholic Church. Some of his ideas are now established practices and prayers among Catholics. A classic example is his prayer commonly known as THE CANTICLE OF BROTHER SUN AND SISTER MOON (Francis's Song Of Joy). Among several ideas portrayed in his 'song of joy' are the elements of nature worship. We find the following ideas in the song/prayer just cited:

He calls the Sun 'our Brother'

He calls the the wind 'our Brother'

He calls water 'our Sister'

He calls fire 'our Brother'

He calls earth 'our Mother'

He calls death of the body 'our Sister'

A source example: http://explorefaith.org/prayer/essays/stFrancis.html

Besides praying to Mary, Catholics also pray to dead saints; and there are examples of prayers offered to Saint Francis in unmistakable language that is used in prayer to deity. Ask a Catholic what is the meaning of "invoking" a dead saint, and you're likely to receive more excuses in return, as was the case when they usually at first denied ever praying to Mary. A popular Roman Catholic prayer to Francis is punctuated with this line:

"St. Francis, the little poor man of Assisi, we invoke you as the admirable mirror you were of our divine Master"

A source example: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4152/francis.htm


It is no wonder then that after his death, Saint Francis has been given several appellations - not by outsiders to the RCC; but by the authorities of the Catholic Church, such as the Popes and the Bishops. One of such is found in the explicit statements of Pope Pius XI, in his Encyclical Letter "Rite Expiatis" (April 13, 1926 A.D.), in which he was reputed to have said:

[list]. . . it seems necessary for Us to affirm that there has never been anyone in whom the image of Jesus Christ and the evangelical manner of life shone forth more lifelike and strikingly than in St. Francis. He who called himself the "Herald of the Great King" was also rightly spoken of as "another Jesus Christ," appearing to his contemporaries and to future generations almost as if he were the Risen Christ. He has always lived as such in the eyes of men and so will continue to live for all future time. Nor is it marvelous that his early biographers, contemporaries of the Saint, in their accounts of his life and works, judged him to be of a nobility almost superior to human nature itself.[/list]


Now, our dear Catholic friends, Saint Francis was "affirmed" by one of your Popes as "another Jesus Christ" - the same Saint Francis whom Catholics today continue to "invoke" in their prayers!

May God help us all to see that there is only one Jesus Christ; and if another by any means is referred to as 'another Jesus Christ', beloved be careful! The WORD of God has given us clear pointers on how to know such (2 Cor. 11:3 & 4).

Shalom.

Pilgrim,

I'm fine and you are fine hopefully.

Hello Catholics

Let us consider these Chapters and reflect on them and be careful with false teachers who condemn what they don’t understand just like Balaam.[i][/i]

1 Timothy 6:1 – Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

Verses3-6 of it says – If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the Doctrine which accords with godliness. He is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife reviling, evil suspicious. Useless wrangling of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

1 Timothy 6 vs 9-11 – But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and unto many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.

My fellow Catholics, we don’t preach wealth and riches in Catholic. We all know those who are guilty and have rejected the doctrine due to greed. Please, withdraw yourself from such people.

1Timothy 5 vs 17 – Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in the Word and Doctrine.

The main Characteristic of a blind person? They cannot see.

ebos:

Hello Catholics

Let us consider these Chapters and reflect on them and be careful with false teachers who condemn what they don’t understand just like Balaam.

. . .

My fellow Catholics, we don’t preach wealth and riches in Catholic. We all know those who are guilty and have rejected the doctrine due to greed. Please, withdraw yourself from such people.

@ebos,

How body?

Before you surreptitiously assume your allegations against non-Catholics of preaching wealth, please look closer home to the RCC money empire:

[list]Church finances a challenge for Pope

Benedict XVI faces tough decisions as CEO of vast empire

By Nanette Hansen
CNBC

What if you were the CEO of a multibillion dollar corporation, rich in assets in every pocket of the globe, but not allowed to use those assets to generate more wealth?

This is one of the biggest financial challenges facing the modern Catholic Church and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany, the man elected as its next leader. Like his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI will become the chief executive of a vast and valuable empire. The Catholic Church in America alone would rank right in the middle of the Fortune 500 list of companies, competing with the likes of drug giant Schering-Plough and home builder Pulte Homes.

The Catholic Church has numerous assets, including a vast amount of real estate. It owns more land globally than any other organization on the planet, but trophy properties like Saint Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City produce little income, cost a considerable amount of money to maintain and will certainly not be “flipped” for a profit.

Total donations made at a parish level in 2003 were $8 billion said Harris. And while Harris’ research shows donations increased at an average annual rate of 4 percent from 2000 to 2003, there’s no guarantee that growth rate will continue.

So might Pope Benedict XVI have to be a money manager as well as a spiritual leader? We do know that the church currently has a very conservative portfolio of investments, mostly in dollar-denominated accounts that in comparison with the euro are not earning great returns.

And recent sex abuse settlements have drained hundreds of millions of dollars from church coffers, resulting in mounting pressure for the pope to pursue a more aggressive investment strategy.

© 2007 CNBC, Inc. All Rights Reserved

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7558375/
[/list]


Don't go away. . . more to come

ebos:

My fellow Catholics, we don’t preach wealth and riches in Catholic. We all know those who are guilty and have rejected the doctrine due to greed. Please, withdraw yourself from such people.

You may pretend to not 'preach' wealth and riches; but we know from the activities of the Roman Catholic Church that there's an even heavier issue to RCC 'wealth and riches' claims.

Sample a few others:


[list][li]Which religious institution owns the Vatican Bank?

Excerpts:

"The Vatican Bank was involved in a major political and financial scandal in the 1980s, concerning the 1982 $3.5 billion collapse of Banco Ambrosiano, of which it was a major share-holder. The head of the Vatican Bank from 1971 to 1989, Paul Marcinkus, was indicted in 1982 in Italy as an accessory of the bankruptcy."[/li][/list]



[list][li]Vatican Claims: Concealing Looted Assets?

Excerpts:

"Alperin v. Vatican Bank was originally filed in Federal Court in San Francisco in November 1999. The plaintiffs are concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relatives as well as organizations representing over 300,000 Holocaust victims.

The plaintiffs seek an accounting and restitution of the Nazi Croatian Treasury that according to the US State Department was illicitly transferred to the Vatican Bank, the Franciscan Order and other banks after the end of the war.

Defendants currently include the Vatican Bank and Franciscan Order. These defendants combined to conceal assets looted by the Croatian Nazis from concentration camp victims, Serbs, Jews, Roma and others between 1941-1945.

Levy v. CIA is a lawsuit filed under the Freedom of Information Act seeking release of US Intelligence agency files regarding the notorius Vatican spymaster, Fr. Krunoslav Draganovic. New records on Draganovic were released as a result of the successful conclusion of that lawsuit in 2001."

Source: http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/
[/li][/list]



[list][li]LA Church Sale To Fund Sex Claims

The Roman Catholic archbishop of Los Angeles has said his archdiocese will sell its main office to raise money to settle lawsuits for sexual abuse.

Cardinal Roger Mahony also said some 50 other buildings could be sold to settle hundreds of lawsuits brought by people who had been abused by priests.

In December, the archdiocese - America's largest - paid some $40m (£20m) to settle 46 cases.

But it still faces more than 500 claims that have been in litigation for years.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6660429.stm
[/li][/list]



Want more? Of course, there are hundreds more cases that not many people know about. Ask and I'll offer the links (especially those clearly stating the Cathlic Church's admission of these claims).

Shalom

You guys notice that it's all the same message I have for you - as many pages as you choose to litter the threads with your endless repetitions.

When you're ready to let your scales drop, you'll be able to see matters clearly. For now, choose as best you may and continue to litter the threads with the same repetitions: I'm only a click away to school you guys and bring you round the Vatican pretences.

These matters affect us all as CHRISTIANS - so the pretences here of copping out the doctrines of Biblical Christianity and mixing them with the heresies of the RCC is not going to wash.

Enjoy plenty.