[size=14pt]Can we not invite Mary4s spirit into our house?[/size]


1) If we invite the Spirit of Mary into our house, that Spirit will surely come, but know ye that it will be a demon. Why? becos, Jesus said that He would send us God the Holy Spirit if we obey Him.
He never mentioned that we should pray to him for the return of the Spirit of His departed earthly mother.

2) If we invite and idol of Mary into our house, we need to ask ourselves these questions:

God of the Bible says He hates idols. (Multiple verses for that matter). So, who gave the Pope permission to make idols of wood and stone? else Idols are not of God, so its the Devil's Ideal.

Since the Mother of Jesus was a faithful Jewess, and did surely not make idols, how would she react if someone claimed they have an idol of her in their house? would she approve you breaking the Law of Moses? NON

3) Since the first Messianic Jews observed the Law of Moses, and did not make idols, paintings or drawings of the Jewish Mother of Jesus. How do the Catholic priests know that these idols, of who they claim is the Queen of Heaven, is the mother of Jesus? No bible prove that It is idolatery, too much Idolatery in the church today.

I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I was born a catholic, i am still a catholic and i will die as a catholic.

Rich4god:

I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I was born a catholic, i am still a catholic and i will die as a catholic.

And what has this got to do with the first question u asked me? i gave u my answer, u came here in silence and qoute urself. U are free of course to die anywhere u wished, no one here is forcing anyone, we say what we know is against the word of God. Ur mind will judge u if u want.

This is a verse that gives instruction in how to confront an elder (pastor) who is sinning. False teaching is sin, therefore it should be dealt with publicly ("in the presence of all,"


1 Timothy 5:19-21 (NKJV)
19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. 20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.
21 I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

1 Timothy 5:20)Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear

All these quotes r baseless n prove nothin except dat d poster is quarelsome. Mary cooperated in salvation just as Peter, John, Paul etc cooperated. Does dat stop Jesus from being our salvation? No! God forbids images n yet when d isrealites were being bitten by a snake God told them to make an image of d snake n whoever looks on it will b healed. We should not invoke d spirit of Mary right? Yet for those who have lost a parent or both, Ɣ☺Ʊ sometimes in ur mind pray to them to help Ɣ☺Ʊ with one thing or d other cuz Ɣ☺Ʊ believe they r in heaven n can help Ɣ☺Ʊ. My point is d bible is very wide n complicated, even a thief can quote it to support his crime like tellin d story of d wise steward. So worship ur God as Ɣ☺Ʊ can n let others do so too. At d end of d day God has not come down to tell Ɣ☺Ʊ d actual truth, instead we r all working wit faith based on wat is taught to us by human beings like us.

coolviv:

All these quotes r baseless n prove nothin except dat d poster is quarelsome. Mary cooperated in salvation just as Peter, John, Paul etc cooperated. Does dat stop Jesus from being our salvation? No! God forbids images n yet when d isrealites were being bitten by a snake God told them to make an image of d snake n whoever looks on it will b healed. We should not invoke d spirit of Mary right? Yet for those who have lost a parent or both, Ɣ☺Ʊ sometimes in your mind pray to them to help Ɣ☺Ʊ with one thing or d other cuz Ɣ☺Ʊ believe they r in heaven n can help Ɣ☺Ʊ. My point is d bible is very wide n complicated, even a thief can quote it to support his crime like tellin d story of d wise steward. So worship your God as Ɣ☺Ʊ can n let others do so too. At d end of d day God has not come down to tell Ɣ☺Ʊ d actual truth, instead we r all working wit faith based on wat is taught to us by human beings like us.

Just hear urself talking, were catholics beaten by Image? Did God alter a word that Marys image been worshiped?

psal; 97.7 Let all them be put to shame that serve graven images, That boast themselves of idols: Worship him, all ye gods.


Jeremiah 10:14 Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every goldsmith is shamed by his idols. His images are a fraud; they have no breath in them.


Habakkuk 2:18 "Of what value is an idol, since a man has carved it? Or an image that teaches lies? For he who makes it trusts in his own creation; he makes idols that cannot speak.


Deuteronomy 5:8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.


Hebrews 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

If u didnt see anywhere in the bible where it says, Marys image should be worshiped/honoured then know that this verse is a warn,,,,,,,
(Galathians 1:But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Jesus himself warned true believers in Matthew 7:15-23 of false prophets who come in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves. He said further "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23) If our Savior warned us of false teachers and said they are actually workers of iniquity, should we not heed His words and separate ourselves in doctrine and practice from such? Thus is it biblical for a true child of God to ignore doctrinal differences which are contrary to God's word? Jesus told us that everyone who professes to call Him Lord, are not true believers.

God commands His children to be Holy as He is Holy. (1 Peter 1:15) If a true believer then joins with those who are teaching and practicing false doctrine is he not then become a party to their error and is not honoring God's word? Is believing and ignoring false teaching not sin?

Really? So wat makes Ɣ☺Ʊ believe ur own church or pastors r not d same ones being quoted in ur passages:working wonders n miracles and r yet far from God? R Ɣ☺Ʊ able to tell? D bible does not tell us to have pictures of our parents or weddings and hang them at home to look upon from time to time. Neither does it tell us to make statues of our heroes on strategic street corners in honour of them. So if we can do this in honour of ordinary human beings like us, wat is d beef wit catholics who erect statues of Mary, Joseph, Peter, Paul and other saints in honour of their walk with Christ on earth. Y d issues wit Mary? Y don't pple talk about d images we have of Jesus himself, his apostles, etc?y d particular beef wit Mary? Could it not be as d bible has declared enemity btw her and d devil, her offspring n his own: d devils only defence is to turn pple against her for She is his greatest enemy. The mother of our saviour, our mother. And everyone knows you don't mess with a woman's child in her presence.

coolviv:

Really? So wat makes Ɣ☺Ʊ believe your own church or pastors r not d same ones being quoted in your passages:working wonders n miracles and r yet far from God? R Ɣ☺Ʊ able to tell? D bible does not tell us to have pictures of our parents or weddings and hang them at home to look upon from time to time. Neither does it tell us to make statues of our heroes on strategic street corners in honour of them. So if we can do this in honour of ordinary human beings like us, wat is d beef wit catholics who erect statues of Mary, Joseph, Peter, Paul and other saints in honour of their walk with Christ on earth. Y d issues wit Mary? Y don't pple talk about d images we have of Jesus himself, his apostles, etc?y d particular beef wit Mary? Could it not be as d bible has declared enemity btw her and d devil, her offspring n his own: d devils only defence is to turn pple against her for She is his greatest enemy. The mother of our saviour, our mother. And everyone knows you don't mess with a woman's child in her presence.

IMAGE IS IMAGE, BE IT MARY, PAUL oR JESUS, THEY ALL VE SAME SYMBOLS. U ARE TRYING TO DIVERT THE SUBJECT. THE JESUS CHRIST CROSS CATHOLIC USES TODAY IS ALSO USED BY PAGANISM, THE UPSIDE DOWN CROSS OF PETER IS A TRUE SYMBOL OF OCULTISM, ALL THESE WERE NOT DONE DURING CHRIST APOSTLES DAYS.

IDOL CAME IN THE CHURCH WHEN IT GOTS CORRUPTED BY SOME DEVILISH BISHOPS AND POPES. THEY ALL DID NOT FOLLOW THE TRUE ROOT OF THE CHURCH, TAKE IT OR U LEAVE IT, READ HISTORY ON HOW CERTAIN PRACTICE CAME TO BE ADOPTED IN THE CATHOLIC.


Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

All these excuses of Honouring images, cross etc etc, are as a result of ignorance concerning Revelation 22:18-19. God clearly say here that, this is the "End". don’t tamper with it. The word of God is now complete.
No more messages from God are to be expected. This is the last message from God to the last of the Apostles. No more prophecies from God will be added. All the excusses given by today Christian to suit their own selfish way of worship is outside the Bible. Be it Catholic, CACG, DEEPER LIFE, GGM etc etc, God says no one should add to his word. You do not ve to be a genius to understand these words.

Ɣ☺Ʊ did not reply my questions: Ɣ☺Ʊ r just quoting n quoting wat Ɣ☺Ʊ don't understand upside down. We shall continue to make images of those we love n honour and whether Ɣ☺Ʊ write in capital letters, bold or italics; ur points remain baseless and diversionary.

You are so funny, is it all about me liking it? Its all about if these practice are found in the bible. U can worship images of whoever u wishes, maybe u ve no regard of what a true believer really should practice. That is your own cup of tea. U ve heard the truth, abide in ot or abandon it is a choice.

I wonder what question u asked me ? Maybe this can help u to know that worshiping images and crosses etc are idolatery and contradicting the bible because they are all man's tradictions of the previews POPES.

The Holy Bible: King James Version. The Psalms 115( God and the Idols)

1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us,
       
but unto thy name give glory,
for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
2 Wherefore should the heathen say,
       
Where is now their God?
3 But our God is in the heavens:
       
he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols are silver and gold,
       
the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not:
       
eyes have they, but they see not:
6 they have ears, but they hear not:
       
noses have they, but they smell not:
7 they have hands, but they handle not:
       
feet have they, but they walk not:
neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them;
       
so is every one that trusteth in them. Ps. 135.15-18 · Rev. 9.20
9 O Israel, trust thou in the LORD:
       
he is their help and their shield.
10 O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD:
       
he is their help and their shield.
11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD:
       
he is their help and their shield.
12 The LORD hath been mindful of us:
       
he will bless us;
he will bless the house of Israel;
he will bless the house of Aaron.
13 He will bless them that fear the LORD,
       
both small and great. Rev. 11.18 ; 19.5
14 The LORD shall increase you more and more,
       
you and your children.
15 Ye are blessed of the LORD
       
which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:
       
but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
17 The dead praise not the LORD,
       
neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the LORD
       
from this time forth and for evermore.
Praise the LORD.

Atleast I ll give you this, Ɣ☺Ʊ know how to quote bible passages even if you have faulty understanding. Do what Ɣ☺Ʊ must as all human beings must choose their path .I worship n pray to d One True God n maintain a relationship wit all who loved n walked wit Him on earth cuz I believe they r in heaven with Him. Just as loving ur husband/wife does not mean Ɣ☺Ʊ won't maintain close relationships wit their family n friends.

I qouted verses that says, no one should add to the bible. I qouted verses that contradicts Bowing down for images no matter their figure. I qouted Verses that warned us from practicing man made tradictions.
I qouted verses that permited us to rebuke evil practice from the church. What are the faulty understanding with these verses? If u can ignore these verses with ur excuses, u are the one having fault to understand what the word of God commanded u.

Food for taught for those who think that the population of a denomination matters.

Matthew 7:13-14
(KJV)
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If something is wrong, let it be wrong! It is not because you are into it that you harded your heart and refuse to see with your own eyes that it is wrong; what ever religion.

what about the Eucharist. Then he took the bread and when he had given thanks he broke it and give it to them saying This is my body given for you do this in remembrance of me. He did the same with the cup after supper and said This cup is the new covenant in my blood poured out for you. Your pastors knows that they dont have the power to do this so they dont bother about it. Without the eucharist there is no Church just a gathering of people praising and worshiping. *Catholic Church*

Then he took the bread and when he had given thanks he broke it and give it to them saying This is my body given for you do this in remembrance of me. He did the same with the cup after supper and said This cup is the new covenant in my blood poured out for you. Your pastors knows that they dont have the power to do this so they dont bother about it.

I wonder what pastor will neglet this. I worship in a church where we do practise this yearly. A service very sacred, not to toy with.

East:

Food for taught for those who think that the population of a denomination matters.

Matthew 7:13-14
(KJV)
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If something is wrong, let it be wrong! It is not because you are into it that you harded your heart and refuse to see with your own eyes that it is wrong; what ever religion.

That is why many will continue to be led astray, harden of the heart to the truth.

[size=14pt]Man tradition in the Church today is dated, do not be ignorant, be warned[/size]

Mark 7:6-10 (KJV)
6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

plappville,

One of the things I have come across when trying to tell people the truth is that they immediately go on the defensive rather than to hear you out and investigate for themselves whether these things are true. They immediately think that you are just being antogonistic and trying to insult their church rather than to apply reason and investigate for themselves whether these things were so. This applies in whatever church circle you are communicating the truth. It's human nature to judge a matter before they hear it. Just to use a wordly example, if you should say to another man that his wife is cheating on him or that she is a prostitute and was seen at a particular place, his first reaction will be that it is a lie and he might even want to pick a fight with you. So it is when you tell someone that the church that they grow up in and so love is not what it appears to do.

Like you I have been looking into the background of the unHoly catholic church for a long time now and sometimes I share what I know with others but have always been met with resistance. The catholic church is steeped in paganism at the highest level and although there may be genuine christains within this church I have to say that the heirarchy is far removed from Christ. The catholic church is built upon a single lie that Peter was the first pope and who was given primacy over the rest of the church by Jesus Christ. This lie is based on a misuse of Matt 16:18-19:

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Their claim is that Peter was the rock upon which Christ would build His church – a mere mortal man with all his failings. A careful read of the text however will reveal that Jesus address Peter when He said “thou art Peter”, but then the object changed from Peter to “upon this rock I will build…” If Jesus was referring to Peter here He wouldn’t then treat Peter as an object but would have instead say “upon you I will build…” The rock therefore was the answer Peter gave in verse 16 – the rock was the revelation that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. The word rock here is from the Greek word “petra” which means: “a large mass of rock” such as a cliff. Peter however was called Cephas by Jesus which means a small stone (John 1:42). Peter’s name is taken from the Greek “petros” which means a small rock or stone.

It is very clear from scripture that Jesus did not give Peter pre-eminence over the church because we read later in Matthew:

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. (Matt 23).
If Jesus gave Peter pre-eminence then He would have been contradicting Himself here since he warned them not to appropriate titles to themselves like the Pharisees did but that all of them are BRETHREN. Scripture does not tell us that there should be a single spiritual figure head for the church here on earth but that Christ (absent in body but present in Spirit) is the only Head of the church (Col 1:18). Titles such as Pope, Metropolitan and Patriarch are invalid in the context of Matt 23.

The problem with people however is that they rather listen to the words of their pastors and priest over the very Word of God. As far as they are concerned their spiritual figureheads cannot be wrong and as such they fail to apply proper discernment of scriptures and do the Berean thing and examine if what they see, what they have heard, what they have believed is actually in line with the Word of God.

I think it was coolviv who implied that the woman of Revelations 12 is Mary and this is a view upheld by catholics in there assertion that it depicts Mary's "queenship". The truth however is somewhat different. It is clear from the passage that Jesus Christ is the male child being referred to but it doesn't follow that the woman referenced here has anything at all to do with Mary. The woman here is Israel. Note the description is similar to Joseph's dream in Gen 37:9-11.

One of the questions we might ask here is why is the dragon depicted as having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns. I think this is significant as I think Rome represented the dragon which stood before Israel to devour the Child. This should be clear because the depiction of the dragon is seen elsewhere in scripture by Daniel in Daniel 7:3-8. These four beasts were Babylon, Medeo-Persia, Greece, Rome. Rome had 10 horns and the 7 heads are the 4 kingdoms of Greece (after the fall of Alexander the Great), Babylon, Medeo-Persia and Rome. Each kingdom conquored the other until Rome controlled the whole area that the previous kingdoms previously occupied. Daniel 8 explains this further.

I so much appreciate ur sincere contribution, It is so true what u ve just said about how they take matters when been faced with the truth. They do not want to hear anything outside the doctrine of Man's tradition. Even the several warning given by Christ are all ignored, yet we claim we are imitating Christ. I was also a victim of brainwashed doctrine. I also observe the Sunday worship of which no where in the bible is it observed. If we seek the the truth, we shall find it, i was busy doing some critical research on certain practices of todays church. I do not want to find myself fiting this verse above. Mark 7:6-10 (KJV)
6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.  Infact, Sunday observer, i believe i am disobeying Gods command of the Sabbath. The Catholic Church has don so much harm to the body of Christ, they have decieved Billions of true Christians with thier tradition. Those who fails to keep studying thier bible will forever be blind by thier doctrines.

Hutchie:

I think it was coolviv who implied that the woman of Revelations 12 is Mary and this is a view upheld by catholics in there assertion that it depicts Mary's "queenship". The truth however is somewhat different. It is clear from the passage that Jesus Christ is the male child being referred to but it doesn't follow that the woman referenced here has anything at all to do with Mary. The woman here is Israel. Note the description is similar to Joseph's dream in Gen 37:9-11.

One of the questions we might ask here is why is the dragon depicted as having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns. I think this is significant as I think Rome represented the dragon which stood before Israel to devour the Child. This should be clear because the depiction of the dragon is seen elsewhere in scripture by Daniel in Daniel 7:3-8. These four beasts were Babylon, Medeo-Persia, Greece, Rome. Rome had 10 horns and the 7 heads are the 4 kingdoms of Greece (after the fall of Alexander the Great), Babylon, Medeo-Persia and Rome. Each kingdom conquored the other until Rome controlled the whole area that the previous kingdoms previously occupied. Daniel 8 explains this further.

It's same Ignorance @Coolviv has proved with his conclusion. David C, Park made it clear that the woman in Revelation 12 is the Church of Christ.

[size=14pt]Treating of the #4 subject.[/size]

4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).

Galatians 4:9-11
King James Version (KJV)
9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

This include the Sunday santification as invented by the Catholics, and all Church have been decieved, all are following this doctrine.

See this Video for a better understanding of what you have been practicing without knowing. David C. Park qouted biblical proves that conderms this doctrine.
Are Christians going to keep the Sunday worship invented by a POPE, or return back to the commandment of God by observing the Sabbath, if we are to imitate Christ, why dont we Observe the Sabbath? Christ and his disciples did Observed it. See this video and know if u ve been obeying Gods commandments concerning the Sabbath.

http://youtu.be/GsdIHEMh7s8

I have seen where some have claimed that the woman of Revelations 12 is the Church but it does not follow from reading the entire passage. How can the woman be the Church if the scriptures say that the woman was about to give birth to a male child (who we know is Jesus). Did the Church give birth to Jesus? The church would have had to be in existence before the first advent of Jesus Christ. Only futurists can claim that the woman is Jesus. Note that the dragon stood before the woman to devour her child after he was born but the child was caught up to God's throne. Following this event the dragon cast a flood after the woman and sought to make war with the remnant of her seed who had the testimony of Jesus Christ. How can the dragon make war with the remnant of the church - where would the rest of the church be? Does it even make sense to say "the remnant of the church who had the testimony of Jesus Christ?" I think not.

Hutchie:

[b]I have seen where some have claimed that the woman of Revelations 12 is the Church but it does not follow from reading the entire passage. How can the woman be the Church if the scriptures say that the woman was about to give birth to a male child (who we know is Jesus). Did the Church give birth to Jesus? [/b]The church would have had to be in existence before the first advent of Jesus Christ. Only futurists can claim that the woman is Jesus. Note that the dragon stood before the woman to devour her child after he was born but the child was caught up to God's throne. Following this event the dragon cast a flood after the woman and sought to make war with the remnant of her seed who had the testimony of Jesus Christ. How can the dragon make war with the remnant of the church - where would the rest of the church be? Does it even make sense to say "the remnant of the church who had the testimony of Jesus Christ?" I think not.

First, just do urself good and see the video, i dont want to explain anything. he brought out concret verses that prove it cant be Israel, how do u come about saying is Israel? God will Rescue Israel despite they have rejected him?

Judgment Against Israel

1 “Hear this, you priests!
   Pay attention, you Israelites!
Listen, royal house!
   This judgment is against you:
You have been a snare at Mizpah,
   a net spread out on Tabor.
2 The rebels are knee-deep in slaughter.
   I will discipline all of them.
3 I know all about Ephraim;
   Israel is not hidden from me.
Ephraim, you have now turned to prostitution;
   Israel is corrupt.
4 “Their deeds do not permit them
   to return to their God.
A spirit of prostitution is in their heart;
   they do not acknowledge the LORD.
5 Israel’s arrogance testifies against them;
   the Israelites, even Ephraim, stumble in their sin;
   Judah also stumbles with them.
6 When they go with their flocks and herds
   to seek the LORD,
they will not find him;
   he has withdrawn himself from them.
7 They are unfaithful to the LORD;
   they give birth to illegitimate children.

Who does the bible refares to here? Israel or the Believers/church? because Judaea will be distroyed also!

Luke 21:21-22
King James Version (KJV)
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.



plz view the video and then we continue. i am very much concern about this.

rhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIk7L9EsRnM

I haven't had a chance to look at the video yet but I will give it a go when I have a chance.

The interpretation that the woman is the church however is faulty. If the Male Child is Jesus, did the church give birth to Jesus or was it the other way around? If by "church" we mean the first church - the congregation of Israel - then I have no problem with that.

God will not set confusion in his Children. Why should people who claim to be one in Christ be having a different understanding of the revelation? Anyway, take ur time and we pick up from then.

plappville:

God will not set confusion in his Children. Why should people who claim to be one in Christ be having a different understanding of the revelation? Anyway, take ur time and we pick up from then.

What you say is correct. But perhaps you need to watch the video again and compare my comments. The speaker did say within the first 12minutes (I didn't watch all of it) or so that the church referred to in the earlier verses of Rev 12 is physical Israel and then the focus moves to spiritual Israel. This is why I said in my last comment that if by church (the church which brought forth the male child) we are referring to Israel, which is indeed the first church, then I did not have a problem with that. So my view is in fact not at odds with the video but consistent with it.

Plappville,

I had stumbled across David C. Pack's writings some time back and he said something in an article then that puzzled me. I had that article saved in my Favourites since then. At that time when I found the article I was researching where was the true church of God today. Now Pack claims or implies that the RCG is the true church but what I found disturbing was the fact that he declared that it was God's intention to finance the church through the tithe. If you follow the below link and scroll to chapter 3 and keep scrolling to the section I copied and pasted below you will see what I mean. Now what do you say to this? Personally I say we should be careful to listen to what a "teacher" says and examine it against scripture because I believe his statement concerning the tithe is FALSE. The tithe in the new testament church is UNBIBLICAL except it be a voluntary gift.

(Excerpt) Financial Laws
I learned God’s principle of tithing (Hebrew means “tenthing”) on one’s income because “the tithe belongs to God” (Lev. 27:30). Also, in Malachi 3:8-10, God declares that He considers those who do not both pay Him His tithes and give Him His offerings to be “robbers”! I also learned that in these same verses God promised to “open the windows of heaven” and pour out tremendous blessings on those who were willing to “prove Him” regarding this promise—and that this is the way He finances His Work of preaching the gospel of the kingdom to the world and the warning message to the modern descendants of ancient Israel. I found that Christ affirmed the tithing law in Matthew 23:23, and that other places in the New Testament confirmed Christ’s words. (The booklet End All Your Financial Worries carefully explains these things.) And again, the true Church teaches the truth about tithing and the many scriptures supporting it.

http://rcg.org/books/thogtc.html

Hutchie:

Plappville,

I had stumbled across David C. Pack's writings some time back and he said something in an article then that puzzled me. I had that article saved in my Favourites since then. At that time when I found the article I was researching where was the true church of God today.Now Pack claims or implies that the RCG is the true church but what I found disturbing was the fact that he declared that it was God's intention to finance the church through the tithe. If you follow the below link and scroll to chapter 3 and keep scrolling to the section I copied and pasted below you will see what I mean. Now what do you say to this? Personally I say we should be careful to listen to what a "teacher" says and examine it against scripture because I believe his statement concerning the tithe is FALSE. The tithe in the new testament church is UNBIBLICAL except it be a voluntary gift.

(Excerpt) Financial Laws
I learned God’s principle of tithing (Hebrew means “tenthing”) on one’s income because “the tithe belongs to God” (Lev. 27:30). Also, in Malachi 3:8-10, God declares that He considers those who do not both pay Him His tithes and give Him His offerings to be “robbers”! I also learned that in these same verses God promised to “open the windows of heaven” and pour out tremendous blessings on those who were willing to “prove Him” regarding this promise—and that this is the way He finances His Work of preaching the gospel of the kingdom to the world and the warning message to the modern descendants of ancient Israel. I found that Christ affirmed the tithing law in Matthew 23:23, and that other places in the New Testament confirmed Christ’s words. (The booklet End All Your Financial Worries carefully explains these things.) And again, the true Church teaches the truth about tithing and the many scriptures supporting it.

http://rcg.org/books/thogtc.html

True we should examine very well todays bible teachers in all angles because, they may sound so true in some area but in other area they will divert the whole thing. I will take my time to go read through the link u posted. But Jesus didn't say in the verses of Matt 23:23 that they shouldn't pay their tithe, the scribes and pharisees ignore the important things mentioned by Christ, they believed that paying their tithes only makes them respecters of Gods law. If they had done everything in accordance including paying of tithes, Jesus won't go against them. Christ didn't either say, You ought not to pay tithe, or did he say that? maybe i missed it!