even today you find descendants of these poor souls across Arabia.

Slavery From Islamic and Christian Perspectives
by Sayyid Sa'eed Akhtar Rizvi

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/


you can also check the below:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-704349.0.html#msg8635549

PAGAN 9JA:

even today you find descendants of these poor souls across Arabia.

Very sad and truly so.

But they were mostly pagans, see how powerless pagans are to even defend their own people.

[size=18pt]SLAVERY IS AUTHORIZED AND BLESSED IN THE BIBLE BY THE BIBLE GOD HIMSELF!!![/size]

Leviticus 25:44-46
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way". 

Exodus 21:2-6
"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years.  Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom.  If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year.  But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him.  If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master.  But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children.  I would rather not go free.'  If he does this, his master must present him before God.  Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl.  After that, the slave will belong to his master forever". 

Exodus 21:7-11
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment".


Exodus 21:20-21
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property".

Ephesians 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ".

1 Timothy 6:1-2
"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them".

Luke 12:47-48
"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it.  "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly.  Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

Is slavering the issue? how are they treated? If SERAH ABRAHAM'S wife had made exhange by selling Hajah her slave for a piece of gold, will u be here crying to Claim Muhammed is a descendant of Abraham?

There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: [b] Sell him to me.And he bought him for two black slaves, [/b]and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).

The apostle gave Ali a girl called Rayta; and he gave Uthman a girl called Zaynab; and he gave Umar a girl whom Umar gave to his son Abdullah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 878)

[size=18pt]CONDEMNATION AND ABOLITION OF SLAVERY AND EMANCIPATION OF SLAVES IN THE HOLY QURAN AND ISLAM!!![/size]

"He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation…give a slave his freedom."[5:89]

"And whoever kills a believer by mistake, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave."[4:92]

"…But it is righteousness…to spend of your substance out of love for Him…for the ransom of slaves, "[2:177]

"O’ People! Every Muslim is the brother of every other Muslim, and all the Muslims form one brotherhood. And your slaves; see that you feed them with such food as you eat yourselves, and clothe them with the clothes that you yourselves wear"-Prophet Muhammad (as recorded in "Sahih Bukhari"


"The Prophet said, 'He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward". (Al-Hadith--Book "Sahih Bukhari"

MUSLIMS ARE INSTRUCTED TO "MARRY" SLAVES IN THE HOLY QURAN AND THE PROPHET HIMSELF MARRIED SLAVES AND HIS BELOVED ADOPTED SON,ZAID,WAS A SLAVE AND THE MOST EMINENT AMONG HIS COMPANIONS (SALMAN,BILAL,AND AMMAR (ra) WERE SLAVES)!!!!!

"…ye…may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands posses….wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dower…"[4:25]

"Are these they upon whom Allah has conferred benefit from among us?" Does not Allah know the grateful? (And when those who believe in our signs come to you, say: "Peace be upon you, your Lord has ordained mercy on Himself" (6:52-54)

Salman, Bilal, 'Ammar and their companions say: "When Allah revealed these verses, the Prophet turned towards us, called us to come nearer to him, and said, 'Your lord has ordained mercy on Himself.' Then we used to sit with him, and when he wanted to stand up (and go from there), he did so. Then Allah revealed,
"And withhold yourself with those who call on their Lord in the morning and evening desiring His goodwill, and let not your eyes pass from them". (18:28)"

plappville:

Is slavering the issue? how are they treated? If SERAH ABRAHAM'S wife had made exhange by selling Hajah her slave for a piece of gold, will u be here crying to Claim Muhammed is a descendant of Abraham?

There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: [b] Sell him to me.And he bought him for two black slaves, [/b]and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).

The apostle gave Ali a girl called Rayta; and he gave Uthman a girl called Zaynab; and he gave Umar a girl whom Umar gave to his son Abdullah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 878)

YOU SEE THOSE GLARING VERSES FROM THE BIBLE WHERE YOUR "LORD" AND "GOD" ARE BOTH SLAVE MERCHANTS AND YOU STILL HAVE THE AUDACITY TO RAISE YOUR DIRTY FINGER!YOU ARE REALLY SHAMELESS.!!!


As for the hadith you are clinging to,you christians are both misleading ignorants and very deceptive.when you can differniate between a "prisoner of war" (POW) and "slaves",then come let us discuss the hadith you are clinging to.

LagosShia:

[size=18pt]CONDEMNATION AND ABOLITION OF SLAVERY AND EMANCIPATION OF SLAVES IN THE HOLY QURAN AND ISLAM!!![/size]

"He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation…give a slave his freedom."[5:89]

"And whoever kills a believer by mistake, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave."[4:92]

"…But it is righteousness…to spend of your substance out of love for Him…for the ransom of slaves, "[2:177]

"O’ People! Every Muslim is the brother of every other Muslim, and all the Muslims form one brotherhood. And your slaves; see that you feed them with such food as you eat yourselves, and clothe them with the clothes that you yourselves wear"-Prophet Muhammad (as recorded in "Sahih Bukhari"


"The Prophet said, 'He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward". (Al-Hadith--Book "Sahih Bukhari"

MUSLIMS ARE INSTRUCTED TO "MARRY" SLAVES IN THE HOLY QURAN AND THE PROPHET HIMSELF MARRIED SLAVES AND HIS BELOVED ADOPTED SON,ZAID,WAS A SLAVE AND THE MOST EMINENT AMONG HIS COMPANIONS (SALMAN,BILAL,AND AMMAR (ra) WERE SLAVES)!!!!!

"…ye…may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands posses….wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dower…"[4:25]

"Are these they upon whom Allah has conferred benefit from among us?" Does not Allah know the grateful? (And when those who believe in our signs come to you, say: "Peace be upon you, your Lord has ordained mercy on Himself" (6:52-54)

Salman, Bilal, 'Ammar and their companions say: "When Allah revealed these verses, the Prophet turned towards us, called us to come nearer to him, and said, 'Your lord has ordained mercy on Himself.' Then we used to sit with him, and when he wanted to stand up (and go from there), he did so. Then Allah revealed,
"And withhold yourself with those who call on their Lord in the morning and evening desiring His goodwill, and let not your eyes pass from them". (18:28)"

The worse u ve done now, is even counting on the Quran, its the most pretendous book of Islam so far. An edited book.

yes the colonizers used the bible to justify slavery. the descendants of these poor souls are spread across the Americas.


both of  your religions are dirty and vile. thank you LagosShia and plappville. you have done your good deeds of the day by furthuring the causes of us poor Pagans by revealing the injustices done upon us by the abrahamic monotheists. I thank you from the bottom of my stomach and i mean it. I REALLY DO.

May the Gods punish the propagators of this bad religions.

plappville:

The worse u ve done now, is even counting on the Quran, its the most pretendous book of Islam so far. An edited book.

help yourselve by following his advise:

LagosShia:

YOU SEE THOSE GLARING VERSES FROM THE BIBLE WHERE YOUR "LORD" AND "GOD" ARE BOTH SLAVE MERCHANTS AND YOU STILL HAVE THE AUDACITY TO RAISE YOUR DIRTY FINGER!YOU ARE REALLY SHAMELESS.!!!


As for the hadith you are clinging to,you christians are both misleading ignorants and very deceptive.when you can differniate between a "prisoner of war" (POW) and "slaves",then come let us discuss the hadith you are clinging to.

plappville:

The worse u ve done now, is even counting on the Quran, its the most pretendous book of Islam so far. An edited book.

a bible follower is talking about "editing"!!!

that is the joke of the century!!!

you have pulled another redherring and false claim to run away from the topic you started that the Holy Quran is edited.sleep in ignorance,foolish girl!

you've gone on the rampage today by copying missionary assault against islam and our prophet (sa).but each time you do,you'd be flogged.

PAGAN 9JA:

yes the colonizers used the bible to justify slavery. the descendants of these poor souls are spread across the Americas.


both of your religions are dirty and vile. thank you LagosShia and plappville. you have done your good deeds of the day by furthuring the causes of us poor Pagans by revealing the injustices done upon us by the abrahamic monotheists. I thank you from the bottom of my stomach and i mean it. I REALLY DO.

May the Gods punish the propagators of this bad religions.

Islam does not tell us to enslave pagans or maltreat them.those are prisoners of war.it was your pagan brothers in Makkah that could not tolerate muslims preaching their beliefs which is counter to their pagan beliefs and worship.the agans felt threatened by Islam which allows you to open your head and think that those idols serve you nothing!

LagosShia:

a bible follower is talking about "editing"!!!

that is the joke of the century!!!

you have pulled another redherring and false claim to run away from the topic you started that the Holy Quran is edited.sleep in ignorance,foolish girl!

you've gone on the rampage today by copying missionary assault against islam and our prophet (sa).but each time you do,you'd be flogged.

Ve u been able to bring out one verse in the bible missing? Muhammed, Mormon and others who claim the bible is corrupted, yet they were not able to provide a single verse that was left out. This is an empty claim.
As for the Quran, i can post u many prove from Islamic book backing the my claim. But here i will only present one prove.

In his book (volume 8, part II, pages 235 and 236), Ibn Hazm says plainly,

"The verses of "stoning" and bosom feeding were in the possession of A’isha in a (Qur’anic) copy. When Muhammad died and people became busy in the burial preparations, a domesticated animal entered in and ate it."

A’isha herself declared that and she knew exactly what she possessed. Also, Mustafa Husayn, who edited and reorganized the book, "al-Kash-shaf" by the Zamakh-Shari, asserts this fact in page 518 of part 3. He says that the ones who related this incident and said that a domesticated animal ate the verses were reliable persons among them ’Abdulla Ibn Abi Bakr and A’isha herself. This same story has been mentioned also by Dar-al-Qutni, al-Bazzar and al Tabarani, on the authority of Muhammad Ibn Ishaq who heard it from ’Abdulla who himself heard it from A’isha.

U can see that the article does not contain any biblical verses, that alone hits the very truth.

ok then tomorrow i go to islamic area and preach Pagan religion. next day you will find my dead body hanging from the nearest tree. In the same way our Pagan brothers felt threatened by your preaching because it was destabilizing to their well estabilished society and went againt their beliefs.

also i dont think i need to relate the countless jihads the muslims fought in many lands, enslaving, ra.ping and killing people along the way and forcefull destroying Pagan shrines. is this your way of getting converts  and then there is jizya, etc.

is this religion LagosShia answer me!

those idols have no God in them. after all, they are but wood or stone. yet they[b] symbolise [/b] the divine. i have explained this before. we humans need something materialistic, i.e., something that we can see, touch or feel in order to pray. we cannot pray to thin air. a person that prays to thin air can feel no true devotion or bond to the supernatural. we cant feel devotion to thin air. he/she who does so, is just lying or wasting his time. even YOU see an image of God in your mind, dont you LagosShia ask yourself that. it does not matter what you tell me.

again, there are different Gods to symbolize the different forces, all of which are aspects of the Supreme God. there cant be one God without the infinite, neither can there be the infinite lesser Gods, without the one.


i would also like to touch the issue of sacrifices for which you accuse us traditionalists even though you muslims also do it. prophehet muhammad probably relaised that he couldnt completely do away with this important practice, so he made up a story that sutis islamic ideals. however, you muslims over do it and without the right reason or purpose which does hurt me a lot especially to see all them billions of helpless creature being slaughtered in such a way.


WHAT IS A SACRIFICE

A Sacrifice is when you offer something to some entity in return for something you want/need. when you want to earn money, you sacrifice your hardwork / when a mother wants to have a baby, she sacrifices her body to the cause / when an a lion wants its food, it sacrifices its energy in chasing the deer, etc

In the same way, when we want something from the Gods, we sacrifice something in return. now this can be anything and is related to the type and nature of the sacrifice. usually (not always), it is the most precious thing we have at that moment or has to be something related to the the sacrifice. now this does not mean we sacrifice all our valuables and money. NO.  it can be anything depending on the circumstance.

for e.g.  say an extremely rich farmer lives near the deserts, where there is hardly any rain. he has a lot of wealth but lives very far away from any settlement. his crops are all dead, due to lack of rain. He therefore, invokes God in the form of the Rain God. now he has to make a sacrifice in return for the rain. now what do you think is the most precious thing he has do you think its Gold NO. its not. the most precious thing he has at that moment, is the few grains he has and the little water he has left. So therefore , he sacrifices it to the Gods. and then he usually gets his rain. this is why sacrifices to the rain God are still performed even today around the world. because it works if done properly and conducted in a proper manner.

now about human sacrifices. If goats, chicken and other animals are sacrificed, then why is it wrong for humans to be sacrificed. After all, arent we all equal creatures of God  therefore it would only be fair to sacrifice humans also depending on the need for it. this is however done once in a while. The sacrificial offerings are usually humans in the form of prisoners of war (who were anyways executed), murders, r.apists and other criminal, etc

by sacrificing such people as murderers, we do justice to society as a whole by punishing them and at the same time, we offer the criminal a chance by sacrificing him/her to the Gods and therefore, helping his soul. by performing a human sacrifice, all the evils of society are symbolically washed away for the time.


Conclusion: different sacrifices have different roles. it is only for those who understand them, that ryly appreciate them.

LagosShia you really

LagosShia:

YOU SEE THOSE GLARING VERSES FROM THE BIBLE WHERE YOUR "LORD" AND "GOD" ARE BOTH SLAVE MERCHANTS AND YOU STILL HAVE THE AUDACITY TO RAISE YOUR DIRTY FINGER!YOU ARE REALLY SHAMELESS.!!!


As for the hadith you are clinging to,you christians are both misleading ignorants and very deceptive.when you can differniate between a "prisoner of war" (POW) and "slaves",then come let us discuss the hadith you are clinging to.

Boko Haram mentality, that is what you have got.

And to think that a young lady has totally whipped you on this forum is totally hilarious and laughable.

The more she reveals your lies , the more your temper boils to volcanic temperatures.

I have told you , be careful of a heart attack

LagosShia:

[b]Islam does not tell us to enslave pagans or maltreat them.those are prisoners of war.[/b]it was your pagan brothers in Makkah that could not tolerate muslims preaching their beliefs which is counter to their pagan beliefs and worship.the agans felt threatened by Islam which allows you to open your head and think that those idols serve you nothing!

Lies!! This was in Mecca, the pagans were the occupants of the Kaaba, Muhammed forcefully distroy thier gods. If Muhammed had not force Islam on people then, Islam will be no where. U don't force people or kill them because u want them to believe u. Most of the People that submited to Islam unwillingly, when Muhammed died, they retrieve back from Islam.

Why this verse came up, was to kill those meccan's Pagans that refused Muhammed's religion.

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the "Sacred Mosque" (This is the kaaba) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

The Pagans were the original owner of the Kaaba.

plappville:

Ve u been able to bring out one verse in the bible missing? Muhammed, Mormon and others who claim the bible is corrupted, yet they were not able to provide a single verse that was left out. This is an empty claim.
As for the Quran, i can post u many prove from Islamic book backing the my claim. But here i will only present one prove.

In his book (volume 8, part II, pages 235 and 236), Ibn Hazm says plainly,

"The verses of "stoning" and bosom feeding were in the possession of A’isha in a (Qur’anic) copy. When Muhammad died and people became busy in the burial preparations, a domesticated animal entered in and ate it."

A’isha herself declared that and she knew exactly what she possessed. Also, Mustafa Husayn, who edited and reorganized the book, "al-Kash-shaf" by the Zamakh-Shari, asserts this fact in page 518 of part 3. He says that the ones who related this incident and said that a domesticated animal ate the verses were reliable persons among them ’Abdulla Ibn Abi Bakr and A’isha herself. This same story has been mentioned also by Dar-al-Qutni, al-Bazzar and al Tabarani, on the authority of Muhammad Ibn Ishaq who heard it from ’Abdulla who himself heard it from A’isha.

U can see that the article does not contain any biblical verses, that alone hits the very truth.

that hadith is not accepted.it is fake.otherwise,it is contradictory.they forgot a verse,yet remember it in hadith.what an irnoy!!!

as for the bible:

the editing and re-editing takes place every year.take a look at bible interpolations and christianity's "pious fraud":

Christianity's "pious fraud"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-836657.0.html

List of Bible verses not included in modern translations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bible_verses_not_included_in_modern_translations

Bible interpolation
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation

plappville:

Lies!! This was in Mecca, the pagans were the occupants of the Kaaba, Muhammed forcefully distroy thier gods. If Muhammed had not force Islam on people then, Islam will be no where. U don't force people or kill them because u want them to believe u. Most of the People that submited to Islam unwillingly, when Muhammed died, they retrieve back from Islam.

Why this verse came up, was to kill those meccan's Pagans that refused Muhammed's religion.

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the "Sacred Mosque" (This is the kaaba) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

dont you get tired of repeating the same lies and allegations everytime?:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=837694.msg9888813#msg9888813

The Pagans were the original owner of the Kaaba.

wen i dey call you ashewo u dey vex!only God knows wetin u dey do for france!!!

so can you tell us who were the pagans that built the Ka'bah?

was the temple of solomon in jerusalem also owned by pagans "originally"?

LagosShia:

dont you get tired of repeating the same lies and allegations everytime?:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=837694.msg9888813#msg9888813

[b]wen i dey call you ashewo [/b]u dey vex!only God knows wetin u dey do for france!!!

so can you tell us who were the pagans that built the Ka'bah?

was the temple of solomon in jerusalem also owned by pagans "originally"?

LOSER talk , you done lose , accept defeat !!!

PAGAN 9JA:

ok then tomorrow i go to islamic area and preach Pagan religion. next day you will find my dead body hanging from the nearest tree. In the same way our Pagan brothers felt threatened by your preaching because it was destabilizing to their well estabilished society and went againt their beliefs.

so then this is a question of who created the earth and who owns it.

besides,the Ka'bah was built by Abraham and Ishmael by pagan admission who themselves pride with descent from Abraham.was it meant for storing idols?

also i dont think i need to relate the countless jihads the muslims fought in many lands, enslaving, ra.ping and killing people along the way and forcefull destroying Pagan shrines. is this your way of getting converts  and then there is jizya, etc.

is this religion LagosShia answer me!

allegation!

and if they truly did that i dont think me and them are practicing the same thing.

those idols have no God in them. after all, they are but wood or stone. yet they[b] symbolise [/b] the divine. i have explained this before. we humans need something materialistic, i.e., something that we can see, touch or feel in order to pray. we cannot pray to thin air. a person that prays to thin air can feel no true devotion or bond to the supernatural. we cant feel devotion to thin air. he/she who does so, is just lying or wasting his time. even YOU see an image of God in your mind, dont you LagosShia ask yourself that. it does not matter what you tell me.

again, there are different Gods to symbolize the different forces, all of which are aspects of the Supreme God. there cant be one God without the infinite, neither can there be the infinite lesser Gods, without the one.

you are simply advocating worshipping what your mind envisage.that is foolishness.

if you follow what you think is right,you could simply ask whatever spirit or gods you believe in to appear.that will satiate your pagan longing to feel what you worship.

i would also like to touch the issue of sacrifices for which you accuse us traditionalists even though you muslims also do it. prophehet muhammad probably relaised that he couldnt completely do away with this important practice, so he made up a story that sutis islamic ideals. however, you muslims over do it and without the right reason or purpose which does hurt me a lot especially to see all them billions of helpless creature being slaughtered in such a way.

so Abraham too who was tested and then presented a sheep was doing it for the wrong reason?while you pagans concentrate on the meat and blood,we dont.we are told in the Quran that Allah requires neither the meat or the blood but piety.

WHAT IS A SACRIFICE

A Sacrifice is when you offer something to some entity in return for something you want/need. when you want to earn money, you sacrifice your hardwork / when a mother wants to have a baby, she sacrifices her body to the cause / when an a lion wants its food, it sacrifices its energy in chasing the deer, etc

In the same way, when we want something from the Gods, we sacrifice something in return. now this can be anything and is related to the type and nature of the sacrifice. usually (not always), it is the most precious thing we have at that moment or has to be something related to the the sacrifice. now this does not mean we sacrifice all our valuables and money. NO.  it can be anything depending on the circumstance.

for e.g.  say an extremely rich farmer lives near the deserts, where there is hardly any rain. he has a lot of wealth but lives very far away from any settlement. his crops are all dead, due to lack of rain. He therefore, invokes God in the form of the Rain God. now he has to make a sacrifice in return for the rain. now what do you think is the most precious thing he has do you think its Gold NO. its not. the most precious thing he has at that moment, is the few grains he has and the little water he has left. So therefore , he sacrifices it to the Gods. and then he usually gets his rain. this is why sacrifices to the rain God are still performed even today around the world. because it works if done properly and conducted in a proper manner.

i see "trade by barter" in your explanation!!!

now about human sacrifices. If goats, chicken and other animals are sacrificed, then why is it wrong for humans to be sacrificed. After all, arent we all equal creatures of God  therefore it would only be fair to sacrifice humans also depending on the need for it. this is however done once in a while. The sacrificial offerings are usually humans in the form of prisoners of war (who were anyways executed), murders, r.apists and other criminal, etc

by sacrificing such people as murderers, we do justice to society as a whole by punishing them and at the same time, we offer the criminal a chance by sacrificing him/her to the Gods and therefore, helping his soul. by performing a human sacrifice, all the evils of society are symbolically washed away for the time.


Conclusion: different sacrifices have different roles. it is only for those who understand them, that ryly appreciate them.

my friend dont bother.your explanation is beyond ridiculous.you try to make it look reasonable.but it can never.

you know well that not all humans sacrificed by pagans are "prisoners of war".it could be anyone who enters your trap.and besides,there is something called "guilt","innocence","justice" and "punishment".you dont go about doing "trade by barter" with human beings.is that the society you are advocating for?

frosbel:

LOSER talk , you done lose , accept defeat !!!

you can have her as your trophy since you're the "winner"!

but i will keep making this forum a living hell for christianity.

LagosShia:

so then this is a question of who created the earth and who owns it.

besides,the Ka'bah was built by Abraham and Ishmael by pagan admission who themselves pride with descent from Abraham.was it meant for storing idols?
allegation!

LIES AND MORE LIES! The Pagan Quraysh never knew ANYTHING Aabout adam or ishmael before muhammad went on his journey to the north and got influenced by the religions of that region, i.e., monotheistic islam, christianity and the monotheistic version of Zoroastrianism.

LagosShia:

allegation!

and if they truly did that i dont think me and them are practicing the same thing.

but the truth is that they did EXACTLY that and you are practicing the SAME THING.

LagosShia:


you are simply advocating worshipping what your mind envisage.that is foolishness.

if you follow what you think is right,you could simply ask whatever spirit or gods you believe in to appear.that will satiate your pagan longing to feel what you worship.

Yes exactly but then again! the ancestors of different tribes saw the supernatural forces in a different manner and this intertwined in their identity, culture and soul. This is much deeper than that. As a result, each tribe and ethnic group worships their own version but the basis is all the same! you see how it works We are actuall ALL united! Not just the humans, but all the creations! it is just that we all dwell in our own separate cosmos.

How many times do I have to tell that the Gods do not dance to human commands. It is we who make our path. you cant just command the Gods to appear. They probably appeared in the early stages. We never know. But we do know that every tribe in the world has that image of the divine. this can be coonsidered beyond explanation.

LagosShia:


so Abraham too who was tested and then presented a sheep was doing it for the wrong reason?while you pagans concentrate on the meat and blood,we dont.we are told in the Quran that Allah requires neither the meat or the blood but piety.

yes but you cause the mass massacre of millions of poor beings just as a n act of rememberance. THIS IS WRONG! so does this mean that you will re-enact all the battles fought by your prophets, etc

we do not do it for the blood and meat. even a few fruits give can be considered a sacrifice. we just do a sacrifice because our gains are not selfish. you cant sacrifice a life for a new car! it doesnt work like that. it is done only for need or for welfare. not for personal gain or WANTS.

LagosShia:

i see "trade by barter" in your explanation!!!
my friend dont bother.your explanation is beyond ridiculous.you try to make it look reasonable.but it can never.

you know well that not all humans sacrificed by pagans are "prisoners of war".it could be anyone who enters your trap.and besides,there is something called "guilt","innocence","justice" and "punishment".you dont go about doing "trade by barter" with human beings.is that the society you are advocating for?

this is not trade by barter. all i say is that if innocent animals are sacrificed, then why not humans

LagosShia:

dont you get tired of repeating the same lies and allegations everytime?:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=837694.msg9888813#msg9888813

wen i dey call you ashewo u dey vex!only God knows wetin u dey do for france!!!

so can you tell us who were the pagans that built the Ka'bah?

was the temple of solomon in jerusalem also owned by pagans "originally"?

Do u want me to believeur rooster tales about A black cube that ve been existing centuries before Muhammed was born? How many stories did your self claimed prophet took authority and labelled  them as he wishes, for people like u to believe. The Kaaba has its true history.

Before and During Muhammad's time, the Ka'aba had been used by pagan Arabs( the Quraysh,). to house their numerous tribal gods, It was used for idol worship and trade. Muslim has no prove of hwo and who built the Kaaba. Muhammed self revelations made it known to Muslims that it was Abraham and His son that built it.  

In 630 A.D., Muhammad and his Friends took over leadership of Mecca. It was then Muhammad destroyed the idols inside the Ka'aba and re-dedicated it as a house of monotheistic worship to his three goddesses allah.
U think u can change history by brainwashing NL audience?

that hadith is not accepted.it is fake.otherwise,it is contradictory.they forgot a verse,yet remember it in hadith.what an irnoy!!!

as for the bible:

the editing and re-editing takes place every year.take a look at bible interpolations and christianity's "pious fraud":

All Hadith are of Islam, u must stop decieving urself, u knows nothing better than the Islamic writer.

u will reject even the most valid Hadith with shame here, just to prove a point. Muhammed himself during his time ordered stoning.

According to Hadith Sahih


Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :

The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."


Volume 3, Book 34, Number 421:
Narrated 'Aisha:

Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abu bin Zam'a quarreled over a boy. Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother ('Utba bin Abi Waqqas) who took a promise from me that I would take him as he was his (illegal) son. Look at him and see whom he resembles." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother and was born on my father's bed from his slave-girl." Allah's Apostle cast a look at the boy and found definite resemblance to 'Utba and then said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a. The child goes to the owner of the bed and the adulterer gets nothing but the stones (despair, i.e. to be stoned to death). Then the Prophet said, "O Sauda bint Zama! Screen yourself from this boy." So, Sauda never saw him again.

more if u wish.

plappville:

All Hadith are of Islam, u must stop decieving urself, u knows nothing better than the Islamic writer.

u will reject even the most valid Hadith with shame here, just to prove a point. Muhammed himself during his time ordered stoning.

i could have rejected those sunni hadiths under 2 seconds!!!

but let us see what they say:

According to Hadith Sahih


Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :

The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal intimate intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."

that is just punishment as their torah prescribes for them.

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 421:
Narrated 'Aisha:

Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abu bin Zam'a quarreled over a boy. Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother ('Utba bin Abi Waqqas) who took a promise from me that I would take him as he was his (illegal) son. Look at him and see whom he resembles." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother and was born on my father's bed from his slave-girl." Allah's Apostle cast a look at the boy and found definite resemblance to 'Utba and then said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a. The child goes to the owner of the bed and the adulterer gets nothing but the stones (despair, i.e. to be stoned to death). Then the Prophet said, "O Sauda bint Zama! Screen yourself from this boy." So, Sauda never saw him again.

more if u wish.

in Islam,the child born out of wedlock or illicit sex is innocent.

the perpetrators of adultery are punished.

IN THE BIBLE EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING,EVEN ANIMALS,SHOULD BE STONED!

For touching Mount Sinai
13There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
Exodus 19:13

For taking "accursed things"
Achan , took of the accursed thing. , And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. , So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

For cursing or blaspheming
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

For adultery (including urban despoil victims who fail to scream loud enough)
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

For animals (like an ox that gores a human)
If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her , and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say , these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. , But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

For worshipping other gods
If there be found among you , that , hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them , Then shalt thou , tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers , thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

For disobeying parents
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother , Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city , And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

For witches and wizards
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27

For giving your children to Molech
Whosoever , giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2

For breaking the Sabbath
They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. , And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones, And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

For cursing the king
Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10

ofcourse christians would tell me Jesus said this
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.(John 8:7)

True,but Jesus also said this:

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19[b] Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, [/b]but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

SO WHY DID JESUS SAY WHAT HE SAID IN JOHN 8?

the answer can be found here,in the preceeding verses of John 8:7:

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.


so why were they tempting him?

throughout,the pharisees keep bringing riddles and posers to Jesus.they want to either trap him breaking the law of Moses,or if he (Jesus) enforces it,they will then set him up with the roman authority.Jesus did not have political power,so why would they bring an accused woman for Jesus to punish her if their intentions were pure?Jesus knew that so he gave them the right answer and freed himself from the trap of both the jews and the romans and threw the ball back into their court.so it is wrong to say Jesus changed the law or was actually against enforcing the law based on john 8.


example of how Jesus upheld the mosaic old testament law:

Exodus 21:17
"Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".

Matthew 15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death".

[qoute]i could have rejected those sunni hadiths under 2 seconds!!!

but let us see what they say:
that is just punishment as their torah prescribes for them.

[/quote]

No it was Islamic order by Muhammed, or else, he will handle it the other way round.

[quote] Volume 3, Book 34, Number 421:
Narrated 'Aisha:

Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abu bin Zam'a quarreled over a boy. Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother ('Utba bin Abi Waqqas) who took a promise from me that I would take him as he was his (illegal) son. Look at him and see whom he resembles." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother and was born on my father's bed from his slave-girl." Allah's Apostle cast a look at the boy and found definite resemblance to 'Utba and then said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a. The child goes to the owner of the bed and the adulterer gets nothing but the stones (despair, i.e. to be stoned to death). Then the Prophet said, "O Sauda bint Zama! Screen yourself from this boy." So, Sauda never saw him again.

more if u wish.

from@LagosShia:

in Islam,the child born out of wedlock or illicit sex is innocent.

the perpetrators of adultery are punished.

To the bold: Is it too difficult for u to accept that Muhammed mentioned "stone"?
Instead u use the word punish? Does death sentence now means punishment?

Another case Muhammed treated :


Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal intimate intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. [/b]Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year."[b] The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.

I can see, Muhammed never ordered stone to death, It was U then playing Muhammed's role here.

what was Jesus reaction tells u in the above verses u qouted? Did he ordered them to stone her because it was Moses Law? Jesus proved a point.

They tempted Jesus because they wanted to accuse him, but he was the law himself, he handled them in the way no one expected. If u ve not sinned, be the first to throw the stone. truelly, all ve commited thesame crime, so no one was free. Those Muhammed has been ordering to stone were they free from the act? Even himself was also adultrous according to hadith. but had no one to Judge him.

plappville:

what was Jesus reaction tells u in the above verses u qouted? Did he ordered them to stone her because it was Moses Law? Jesus proved a point.

They tempted Jesus because they wanted to accuse him, but he was the law himself, he handled them in the way no one expected. If u ve not sinned, be the first to throw the stone. truelly, all ve commited thesame crime, so no one was free. Those Muhammed has been ordering to stone were they free from the act? Even himself was also adultrous according to hadith. but had no one to Judge him.

Jesus upheld stonning:
example of how Jesus upheld the mosaic old testament law:

Exodus 21:17
"Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".

Matthew 15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death".




furthermore,scholars have viewed the reported case of the adultress in the bible as a case of christianity's "pious fraud".it was a made-up story!!!

LagosShia:

Jesus upheld stonning:
example of how Jesus upheld the mosaic old testament law:

Exodus 21:17
"Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".

Matthew 15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death".
  ( did anyone told u Jesus let down law? A situation that has nothing to do with the said law arose to his face. He handled the issue perfectly. He did not disrespect the law at all. I will try to analyse what i mean, when i said he made a point
to them.


furthermore,scholars have viewed the reported case of the adultress in the bible as a case of christianity's "pious fraud".it was a made-up story!!!  (And who re those scholars? So Deut 18, Daniel 2: etc are also made up as they are from one book.

I believe u went through the said verse. The law clearly states the stoning for both caught parties.
The Elders that brought the woman were not seeking justice from Jesus. But were trying to trick him and make Him Look bad.
Their intensions were not to learn anything from him eaither.
But Jesus Christ taught them a lesson even though they did not come to learn one.
To uphold the Law of Moses, the both participants were to be tried and put to death.
If Jesus would ve condemned her to death he would ve broken the "Law of Moses"
Jesus actually works according to the Law of Moses by not breaking it.
When He asked, “he who ve not sinned" they all left becos they were all sinning in this specific act by been partial by not bringing the man whom they caught her with to be tried as well. Of course she cant commit adultery alone? There a man!
The point Jesus made here is that, He took the law of Moses a step further (He perfected It) by forgiving the woman
(something that the Law could not do becos It could only condemn). He told her, did anyone condemn u woman? (no) Jesus told her, neither do i condemn u, go and sin no more.

Muhammed ordered stoning the woman, why the man gets a light punishment. Injustice.

All through Jesus days, he didnt condemn anyone, but always show mercies.

you ve suddenly ignored the hadiths that shows Muhammed's no merci, as par the Stoning,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"why do you see the sawdust in your brother's eye while you forget the plank in your own eye"?

you keep bringing me sunni hadiths which even to sunnis are not all accepted at face value.i keep saying there isn't one verse on stoning in the Holy Quran.yet there are countless in your bible.even if i'm to accept stonning as a just law to punish the guilty of certain crimes (and i have not denied it to you),how can you deny your bible in explicit terms on stoning:

LagosShia:

IN THE BIBLE EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING,EVEN ANIMALS,SHOULD BE STONED!

For touching Mount Sinai
13There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
Exodus 19:13

For taking "accursed things"
Achan , took of the accursed thing. , And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. , So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

For cursing or blaspheming
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

For adultery (including urban despoil victims who fail to scream loud enough)
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

For animals (like an ox that gores a human)
If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her , and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say , these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. , But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

For worshipping other gods
If there be found among you , that , hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them , Then shalt thou , tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers , thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

For disobeying parents
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother , Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city , And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

For witches and wizards
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27

For giving your children to Molech
Whosoever , giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2

For breaking the Sabbath
They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. , And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones, And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

For cursing the king
Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10

ofcourse christians would tell me Jesus said this
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.(John 8:7)

True,but Jesus also said this:

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19[b] Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, [/b]but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

SO WHY DID JESUS SAY WHAT HE SAID IN JOHN 8?

the answer can be found here,in the preceeding verses of John 8:7:

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.


so why were they tempting him?

throughout,the pharisees keep bringing riddles and posers to Jesus.they want to either trap him breaking the law of Moses,or if he (Jesus) enforces it,they will then set him up with the roman authority.Jesus did not have political power,so why would they bring an accused woman for Jesus to punish her if their intentions were pure?Jesus knew that so he gave them the right answer and freed himself from the trap of both the jews and the romans and threw the ball back into their court.so it is wrong to say Jesus changed the law or was actually against enforcing the law based on john 8.


example of how Jesus upheld the mosaic old testament law:

Exodus 21:17
"Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death".

Matthew 15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death".

"why do you see the sawdust in your brother's eye while you forget the plank in your own eye"?