Businesstools:

I do not buy the opinion that Degree holders cannot measure up to their HND counterparts.Their responsibilities in an organisation are different.Besides,we are all presented with equal opportunities to attend poly,Uni,Colleges of Edu or others.The choice is for individuals to make.If a person is not satisfied with his educational qualification,the room for advancement is not exhausted.

U're soooo on point, i concur!

i think both should be regulated properly. The universities profs. Exterb.lished d polytechjnics and equipd them well enough to stand and outstand the Bsc's why d discrimination i can't tell.

Secondly, . I blame the govt more and d private sector. Normally inrecrutment you emloy the man for the job not the man with the bsc. Dat show we are just acting drama in this country and the reason why nothing gets done because we are not serious. The nigeria system is just not the competitive type.

Ok, ok guyz, I’m finally back, and I must apologize for late response, it’s all because of this so-called work of a thing, please do bear with me…and now we have to get back to real business…firstly, I want to express my profound joy and gratitude with the moderators for seeing this topic worthy to be on the NL front page, God bless you guys and may your river of patronage never run dry, can I hear you fellows say

Before I forge ahead, let me make a very vital point here, THE MAJOR FACTORS STOPPING NIGERIA’S DEVELOPMENT AND STEP TOWARDS PROGRESS ARE: SELFISHNESS AMONGST THE CITIZENS, SELF-CENTEREDNESS, SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS AND THE REST OF SELF SELF STUFFS…we must begin to think ‘US’ and not ‘I’ if Nigeria must move forward, point number one. It is this same self, self issue that makes our house of assemblies both at state and national levels to abandon their duties and focus on self-enrichment, WHY my dearly beloved countrymen? All these self, self spirit do not in any way portray the spirit of patriotism and unity that we proclaim in our national anthem and others.

For the sake of keeping this topic clean from prejudice, I am not going to disclose my certificate, but those that know me, will be able to tell more about me…now, where are we?

I started this topic out of pity for those our fellow brothers and sisters that answer Nigerians as we all do, and I also started it out of patriotism and to initiate a process of change, and not to start a comparison between HND holders and B.Sc holders, but our fellows who don’t read topics thoroughly before jumping in, misinterpreted the topic and are about turning the wheel to another direction, please stop!

I have friends, in fact, I have two friends, one is a first class holder from OAU, who finished with the highest CGPA in the whole of OAU in his year of graduation, but you wouldn’t believe that this guy never made his jamb, he passed through the rigorous route of an IJMB, and my other friend, finished from UNN with a first class too, and these two guys are good, of course my friends are always cast from the same furnace, and as I write, the OAU guy is in Japan for his Ph.D, while the UNN guy is working in a blue chip firm in Houston…now, I have two other close friends again, one finished from Federal Polytechnic Nekede, the other from IMT Enugu, both with distinction, and the Nekede guy is with Shell, while the other is in Ghana furthering his studies…why did I gave these scenarios? To tell those comparing HND with B.Sc that there are both good and bad graduates or products from the both tertiary institutions of comparison, so let’s keep the comparison issue aside.

I read a guy here mention a fact that both the parents of HND holders and those of B.Sc, pay tax to the government and are legal Nigerians who by virtue of citizenship have equal right in our national revenue and oil income, and yet, when a federal, state, regional (e.g. NDDC), etc scholarships are publicized, HND holders are exempted, why? And some guys still talk about HND holders furthering their studies, do you know how most of these guys suffered to get that HND certificate, and how their parents sold their lands, wrappers, wedding souvenirs, etc, to ensure these guys get a HND certificate, and only for them to get it to be rejected by almost all employers in Nigeria, including our own very government, and you still expect them to be happy, and you still support this very HND program to continue? Do you guys reason properly before you talk or you just see everything as a medium for destructive argument and fight? If you’re that type, please take a step backward, you’re not a true Nigerian citizen and a patriotic citizen to say.

I read another fellow said, the ND holders should further, but with which fund? Don’t you know the present Nigerian economy and how some citizens that you and I know are striving to live by the day? Just for the record, if you have HND and you want to upgrade to B.Sc in any UK school, you only need a one-year program, but in Nigeria, if for instance, the course is say an engineering course, you will start from 3rd year, which means three more years after having a HND, isn’t that unjust please, be realistic to yourselves fellows.

Now again, I read some others blabbing that whether with HND or B.Sc it doesn’t matter, that all that matters is your ambition and whatever in life, and you guys know all these and still went ahead to attend higher institution (whether HND or B.Sc)? Haven’t you seen millions of Nigerians making the rich list even without having a secondary school certificate, why not join them since the certificate you’re holding and the opportunities it offers to you doesn’t matter? Why then are you guys struggling to make it big in order to send your children to the best schools in the world, and why not relax and send them to public schools, and let them graduate and join others in the struggle for survival, since the certificate and opportunities that come with them matters not to you?

Let us call a spade a spade, the so-called discrimination against HND holders in Nigeria is becoming so horrible, and more and more graduates are being churned out from polytechnics yearly, and obviously, they have no or very minute chances of employment, survival, etc…so why not our government sit down on a round table with education experts and redraft this polytechnic system entirely and stop scamming innocent Nigerian youths? Don’t you guys have conscience at all, and you’re just there comparing and comparing, was this thread meant for comparison? Don’t you see the subject please? For Christ’s sake, stop all these comparisons and come out with good ideas on how to change this ugly situation so that our fellow country youths with HND can have more chances like their B.Sc counterparts.

We need this topic to reach to the print media, our national dailies, and finally to the house of assembly and presidency…something needs to be done very urgently, before we create more trouble in this so-called Nigeria nation. Thank you my fellow patriotic Nigerians, peace!

HND is different from B.Sc, quite obvious, but then, in Nigerian context, why not we create equal opportunities for them? For instance, if NDDC or federal government or SHELL, TOTAL, etc, is offering a scholarship opportunity, why not we have a section of our constitution that compels them to share it say 50-50 or 60-40, amongst HND and B.Sc holders, so there can be fairness and so they can have opportunity to improve their certificates.

Lest I forgot, you mention of furthering after obtaining HND, have you guys forgotten the present issue of age-bracketing for employment in Nigeria? What if before the HND holder finishes upgrading to B.Sc and he/she is no longer of the employment age as almost all Nigerian employers do specify, 25 – 27, 25-30? Think about all these before you post. Sharing quota can also be applied in jobs between HND holders and B.Sc holders if FG can’t scrap the program.

The main cause is poor employment creation and youth empowerment from policies makers. Most job openings in about ten years ago used to request bsc/hnd but now same opening is for only bsc holders. In time to come in Nigeria, same opening will be for only masters degree holders.

Pls tell them oooooooo. am really touched

The Nigeria labour markets only allow graduates student with higher GPs to patronised not knowing that some graduate now know this and all what they do while in school was to do anything illegal to get higher Gpa. I think our orientation needs to be changed and employ graduates not base on their GPA alone but their intellectual content and their level of acquaintance with the course they studied in school based on their practical perfomance and not minding wether poly or uni graduate.

Hello,

I have an HND and i graduated from Yaba College of Technology.

I never for once regretted having an HND cos i am an expatriate working outside the shells of this country earning more than most of my colleagues with BSC.

There is no discrimination in the Telecoms sector.

Its about results. We earn same salary.

With your HND and a good MBA (LBS) you should be ok.


We all fail to realize that the world has changed from the degree u earn to what you can provide.
Discrimination is a thing of the mind.

We are all entitled to our individual opinions which either make or break us.

OP, who told you that does companies do not employ HND holders? There are several HND holders from my school who currently working at TOTAL, LNG etc legitimately. The truth is no your way.

If you like have BSc or MSc or Phd . . . That is where it ends the rest is how far your university degree go to make an impact in your environment and your nation. Take a look at all the so called professor in Nigeria today. I can't stop to keep asking myself what has their professorship done to equip their immediate environment? It is not all about paper Msc, Phd and what have you. What can you do?

I am a proud HND student and I will be graduating this year by God's grace. I like the way ikooko put it and that is the best way to have explained this situation.

I once had a neighbour who told me something very unbelieveable. Actually, this issue of HND and BSc is a typical example of the difference between a white man and black. In this case, for a black man to be respected by white man, he would have to go the extra mile at defeating him hands down by proving his worth. Take a closer look at all the great black men of this world. Benjamin Carson comes to mind here. He is my mentor and he said in his words that eduction(information) is the way to freedom. What you know is what makes you.

Like my neighbour told me, he sent a Greek surveyor packing by beating him hands down.

They were to survey a road at half to each. On two occasions, my neighbour got the same result while the Greek surveyor got a different result. It was unacceptable to the company. So they had to bring in a different person to find out what was wrong. The man confirmed that my neighbour was right and the Greek surveyor was wrong.
The company could not take the embarrasment because it is actually a Greek company. They had to send the man back to Greece. This happened so many years ago and the man share this just to boost my morale.

Their profile: My neighour finished from the Federal School of Survey,Oyo( a Polytechnic) and the Greek man probably went to a Uni. What does that tell you?

Like I said, I am currently a student at the Petroleum Training Institute, Delta State. My current lecturer is a BLIND man. He lost his sight over 20 years ago. The MAN is GOOD. He know is stuff and he lectures as if you were there on the field while an oil well drilling operation is going on.

At the end what really matters is how much you have developed yourself.

Sadly, when most Nigerians leave school, their eduction ends; they stop reading.

It is what you know that really counts . , Above all God first!

Oga u have spoken wel, try poly stdnt and see,i have 2 cousin one in unilag and one in poly, the unilag,likes efice and swagz,gramer and nutin in d brain,d poly shai,fire in al thngz, self employd set of guys,ALL MY LINEAGE MUST GO TRU POLY,BEFOR GOIN TO UNI,AT LEAST OND, GRST NAIJA POLYTECHNIC STDNT, FUK UNI IDIOT,JUST GRAMER,CNT EVEN OPERATE MACHINE,GUYZ MY MENTOR DEY ENGLAND DOING HIS ADVANCEX STUDIEZ,NAH HND YABATECH HOLDER, WIT MASTERZ WITOUT PGD,DNT ASK ME HOW HE DID IT,YANKEE UNI VALUE NAIJA POLY CERT THAN UNI,COZ 4 THERE,DEM CAL AM COLLEGE JUST 2YRZ,

I've got my OND, HND and BTECH. . .

HND GRADS SHOULD PLS UPGRADE.

@ poster,

You need better information before you create further confusion, Chevron still recruits both OND and HND holders! A large number of folks on the EGTL plant belongs to this category. I work with a couple of them, it depends on the job owners and not the organization.
There is no organizational decision not to recruit these folks but of course you wouldn't recruit an HND holder as a drilling or petroleum engineer,

igbonla:

@ poster,

You need better information before you create further confusion, Chevron still recruits both OND and HND holders! A large number of folks on the EGTL plant belongs to this category. I work with a couple of them, it depends on the job owners and not the organization.
There is no organizational decision not to recruit these folks but of course you wouldn't recruit an HND holder as a drilling or petroleum engineer,

right on spot

Very interesting thread here, and nice read. I am a HND Computer Science holder, finished HND at 20, but my parents could not afford to send me to a university then. I finished NYSC in 2006, started working in 2007, and got my 5th job in December 2011. I have experienced discrimination in the labour market but i have chosen to close my eyes to it, studied very hard, and looked for other job opportunities to circumvent it. I started active programming in HND 1, written final year projects for even Msc students studying in the UK (with proof!, no lies here).
The Nigerian educational system is so bad, and i wont rate a Bsc holder over a HND holder or vice-versa. Everyone should be assessed on merit, not on any perceived status of degree. For the Bsc holders having a false sense of security in their degrees, keep deceiving yourselves. For the HND holders, please do not wallow in self-pity but let your desperation force out the creativity in you to become entrepreneurs. Nigeria needs entrepreneurs and not book-cook and pen-rogues.
Finally, i will not allow even my house-help to go through the HND program to prevent them from facing this initial hurdles of discrimination.
The polytechnic or university does no make an individual, you make yourself through sleepless nights of study and God's favour.

Here's the deal: It's not about the Fg scrapping HND programme, it's about the fg giving the same level of acceptance and recognition to the HND programme in the same measure that is given to the bsc.

The plain fact still remains that polytechnics do a lot more practicals than the universities. So what remains is the recognition being given to the polytechnics in the same measure in which is given to the universities. It's not fair!

The fg MUST make the Higher National Diploma recognised in the country, it's in their hands and in their hands only and no one else. Believe you me, if the Higher National Diploma is scrapped, Nigeria as a whole will take a negative dive in terms of development, BELIEVE IT!

Institutions both private and public should even give the HND holders a chance before even condemning them. Give them a chance Give US a chance. Then if we are not good enough SACK US! But I believe you won't be disappointed.

PEACE TO NIGERIA.

have you ever gone to any of adenuga interviews i have have you gonme to any of ecobanks interviews i have oando, chevron shell i have done all and that waas years ago before i finally got ecobank and started m,y enterprise the publ;ic service is also that bad the federal civil service commission is the major culprit agencies and et al well please forget about this with your HND AND MBA they would also tell you, you afre over

have you ever gone to any of adenuga interviews i have, have you gone to any of ecobanks interviews i have oando, chevron shell i have done all and that waas years ago before i finally got ecobank and started my enterprise and i am not regretting it at least if i am going through hell its for myself i have employed scores of Bsc graduates and they always have this mentality their certificates would oput food on their table i guess that why they arew offering them civil service jobs more to sit behind governmnet table and collect free allowances for doing nothing, Nigeria, well the public service is also that bad the federal civil service commission is the major culprit agencies and et al
well please forget about this statement with your HND & MBA you are home dry, hmm they would also tell you, you are over qualified talking from experience, with 4 professional qualifications and an MBA, it is a crazy world (Nigeria) and innovation and enterprise should hold sway because we are a developing country that needs innovation and enterprise but well its lost and not desk officers, so plz wake up people its just opportunity that shines on some and not on all

Monaide:

Here's the deal: It's not about the Fg scrapping HND programme, it's about the fg giving the same level of acceptance and recognition to the HND programme in the same measure that is given to the bsc.

The plain fact still remains that polytechnics do a lot more practicals than the universities. So what remains is the recognition being given to the polytechnics in the same measure in which is given to the universities. It's not fair!

The fg MUST make the Higher National Diploma recognised in the country, it's in their hands and in their hands only and no one else. Believe you me, if the Higher National Diploma is scrapped, Nigeria as a whole will take a negative dive in terms of development, BELIEVE IT!

Institutions both private and public should even give the HND holders a chance before even condemning them. Give them a chance Give US a chance. Then if we are not good enough SACK US! But I believe you won't be disappointed.

PEACE TO NIGERIA.

i love this submission but how many people will give this equal opportunity certainly not in Nigeria thats to show how bad it is

I think we have deviated from the topic more than we should. . . . . . its not about comparisons here; it is about the view of employers and the stance (or rather lack of it) by the Govt. It is clearly not an issue of who is better than who or which standard is higher than the other - such a debate has no end!
Yes, against all odds we have HND, NCE and other non-Uni degree holders braving the odds and breaking boundaries but the undelining thing to note is that day by day, we see job vacancies, scholarships and the like; and non-Uni degree holders are almost blatantly being left in the dark. . . . . sometimes with no mention whatsoever as though they did not exist.

Govt + the Education ministry need to come out and make a clear stand on non-Uni graduates. The ministry of Labour (or whatever) too has to step in at some point and present a clear position of where non-Uni graduates stand in the labour market. . . . .
if non-Uni degrees are no longer of value, they should find a way to make amends otherwise like the OP has put it, it is nothing but a massive charade!

Monaide:

Here's the deal: It's not about the Fg scrapping HND programme, it's about the fg giving the same level of acceptance and recognition to the HND programme in the same measure that is given to the bsc.

The plain fact still remains that polytechnics do a lot more practicals than the universities. So what remains is the recognition being given to the polytechnics in the same measure in which is given to the universities. It's not fair!

The fg MUST make the Higher National Diploma recognised in the country, it's in their hands and in their hands only and no one else. Believe you me, if the Higher National Diploma is scrapped, Nigeria as a whole will take a negative dive in terms of development, BELIEVE IT!

Institutions both private and public should even give the HND holders a chance before even condemning them. Give them a chance Give US a chance. Then if we are not good enough SACK US! But I believe you won't be disappointed.

PEACE TO NIGERIA.

My sentiments exactly. . . . my very sentiments exactly!!!

Hi guys pls how do I quote someone? There are some quotes I would like to make reference to. Thanks in advance.

OUR YEARNINGS ARE THESAME. CAN U READ THE ARTICLE BELOW? I WROTE IT FEW MONTHS AGO . I want to make sure is published. I need contribution from all and sundry




                                                    POLYTECHNIC EDUCATION IN NIGERIA – A MIRAGE
Sometimes I wonder why life is full of inequalities and, these have cut across every spheres of the human race. Of course it is a life phenomenon that there are two possibilities in life the synopsis of which is the good and the bad. The world is advancing in both evil and good in every second that passes by, our mentality is being hampered and influenced by the growing trends of human cravings engendered by their inbuilt greedy nature. Nepotism, corruption, self centeredness, covetousness et al has eaten deep into the fabric of our society
One major reason why every parent either rich or poor wants to get their wards educated is to bring them good fortune as well as alleviate their sufferings and, banish poverty from their race. Some parents especially the poverty stricken ones went through hell before they could send one child to school in the family. On the graduation of the child the parent and child are full of joy and ecstasy that truly poverty will soon be alien to them. Unfortunately, the child is encountered with the unknown by the time he or she enter the labour market. It is then that he will realize that tough time has just began.
Labour market supposed to be market a graduate will just walk in to and just get his own share of the national cake without even thinking of any Shylock or pharaoh that could prevent the Israelites from getting to their promise land. Labour market in Nigeria is full of thousands of frustrated and disappointed Nigerian graduates comprising of itinerant Bsc and HND holders seeking for employment. It is a very sad thing that most of these graduates especially the HND holders are being marginalized when a times they almost got the job. They prefer to employ their Bsc counterpart; of course this is cynical and should not be encouraged in the society.

Nigeria government should be government for all. They should be able to exercise their power over every parastatal in the land because they are not expected to hands up on the way other sectors like the banks and financial institution, oil companies and, even private companies run their organizations. There should be a way the government could assist the unemployed HND graduates by poke nosing in the acquisition of man power in all approved and well registered organizations in Nigeria. The percentage of Bsc graduates that are employed every year is far cry that of HND graduates. Even some federal government parastatals hypocritically call for both HND and Bsc holders during their mass employment exercise and consequently give preference to the later.   If is really government that set up Polytechnic education then it should be justified.
Nigerian government to be precise has been feigning ignorance on this issue for long and it is time to rise up and take the bull by the horns and begin to probably flag off the abolition of Polytechnic education in Nigeria, because it gives those that have graduated from these schools and the undergraduates the impression that is a waste of time and resources. Alternatively, the federal government should scrapped all humanities and management courses that are being taught in all the polytechnic in Nigeria and major on those ones that are more of engineering or that has to do with  technology.

This a very gud topic.I will encourage any HND holder to try and go further.Learning those not stop in a particular qualification.Thus,it is very sadden when you see the way HND certificate are being treated like a dustbin garbage.This further shows that those who hav been ruling this nation are incensentive and have failed to tackle the many problem facing education in our dear country.

It is not far fetched to realise that Nigerian is resting on a time bomb.What the ruling elite(Govt)fails to tackle today will definately hunt the nation in a very near future.

How does the issue of Niger Delta militant started?what abt the issue of Boko Haram,what abt the incessant strike in our Nation University,wat abt the total collapse of our Refineries,wat can we trace the cause of this to "Neglect"

It is a very simple logic ,Nigerian goverment always like post event solution not pre event solution.By the time the jobless,discriminated ,frustrated HND holder will bounce back ,the story will nt be who cause the prb , (ARMED ROBBER,PROSTITUTION HIRED ASSASIN,POLITICAL THUGS, BUNKERING, SERIAL KILLERS )The list is enormous.Goodluck to Nigeria, I pray it woun't get to that level.

well, lets see what happens when all poly starts awarding BSC

If I may ask, how many polytechnics employ someone with HND to lecture in their schools?
I have both HND and Bsc and I can tell you that only HND holders were not employed to lecture HND students and this alone shows that the school itself belief that their is a big gap between HND and Bsc. please and please forget about this so called poly graduates are good in practicals

hi folk,
To me sir, it is a constitutional imbroglio that has left the situation the way it is. trying to normalize through intensive struggle while in school but all to no avail. and when we did not have enough support from the stakeholder, we bow out with no other platform to vent our grievance.
In western world, there is no different between HND and BSC graduate. but my candid advice is; trying and meet up to the exception less you become a shadow and a surrogate to your mate.
thanks

gabreel:

hi folk,
To me sir, it is a constitutional imbroglio that has left the situation the way it is. trying to normalize through intensive struggle while in school but all to no avail. and when we did not have enough support from the stakeholder, we bow out with no other platform to vent our grievance.
In western world, there is no different between HND and BSC graduate. but my candid advice is; trying and meet up to the exception less you become a shadow and a surrogate to your mate.
thanks

said same Earlier. . .let them upgrade

lekside44:

well, lets see what happens when all poly starts awarding BSC

impossicant. . .

Monaide:

Hi guys pls how do I quote someone? There are some quotes I would like to make reference to. Thanks in advance.

click on reply. . .
scroll down through the various replies. . .
when you get to the reply you wanna quote, click on insert quote on the right hand corner of that person reply
then type in your own response

Monaide:

Here's the deal: It's not about the Fg scrapping HND programme, it's about the fg giving the same level of acceptance and recognition to the HND programme in the same measure that is given to the bsc.

The plain fact still remains that polytechnics do a lot more practicals than the universities. So what remains is the recognition being given to the polytechnics in the same measure in which is given to the universities. It's not fair!

The fg MUST make the Higher National Diploma recognised in the country, it's in their hands and in their hands only and no one else. Believe you me, if the Higher National Diploma is scrapped, Nigeria as a whole will take a negative dive in terms of development, BELIEVE IT!

Institutions both private and public should even give the HND holders a chance before even condemning them. Give them a chance Give US a chance. Then if we are not good enough SACK US! But I believe you won't be disappointed.

PEACE TO NIGERIA.

end of discussion. . . .you've said it all.

HND and Bsc are not the same in content and structure. They are only equivalent qualifications. Poly do more practical work and seminars than the uni. The uni do more theoretical work and seminars than the poly. That is not to say that the unis do not have practical trainings and the polys do not have theoretical work to do. Let me give you a simple example. I did stat theory 1 & 2 in my ND and stat theory 3 & 4 in my HND in the polytechnic while studying maths &statistics. I also did distribution theory and probability theory in the university. Stat theory, dist theory, and prob theory are all the same thing with different names. Funny i did more in the poly stat theory than i did in the uni dist theory and prob theory. Infact, i used the poly notes to study for those courses and i got A's; but then in poly i was getting B highest. Infact some of the proofs in the stat theory where not in the dist theory and stat theory syllabi. The funny thing again is that i learnt how to use 4 different statistical computing softwares in the university maths dept computer lab during practical classes. In the polytechnic then we were only taught how to write and run programs in QBASIC, FORTRAN & COBOL. I merged the 2 systems of education together and it has helped me a lot as i now work as a consultant Statistician and Data analyst. Both systems are ok and the discrimination of HND and undue advantage given to Bsc holders should be stopped. Let every man be allowed to compete freely and fairly for any job.

For those saying that HND graduates are not employed to teach in the polytechnic. HND holders are employed as instructors to teach in the polytechnic, while Bsc holders are employed as asst lecturers. All of them start from the same level but on different cadre. The difference is that the HND guy can never hold any key appointment like HOD, Dean, Rector, etc. From what i use to know years back, to lecture or teach HND students in the poly, NBTE requires that one holds a postgraduate qualification like Msc or PhD. Those with PGDip may be allowed too. Anybody with a Bsc or HND is to lecture only ND level. HND students are to be effectively taught by Msc and PhD holders. Even in the university a grad asst won't be allowed to lecture 300 and 400 levels students.