jayriginal:

The problem is that "god" is not an objective, rational or logical concept. Also, you really do not understand the "atheists' position". You are burdened with the wrong idea of what it means to be an atheist.

jayriginal:

These so called foundational questions have no bearing on my lack of belief in "god". I couldnt care less about evolution or big b@ng theories. They are not the reason I stopped believing. I simply hold them as more plausible than all the creation myths put together.
I've posed this question before but since you are yoruba (apparently) I might as well ask you why you reject the story that Obatala (?) came with a chain and a chicken and a snail shell of sand. I believe you know the rest of the story. How come you reject that one but accept an equally (possibly more) ridiculous version of some disembodied voice speaking things into existence and creating things from clay

jayriginal:

You didnt ask one. You made an assertion and I took the liberty of customizing it for you.

jayriginal:

Yup, like you asserting that blue eyes are caused by a curse.
The bible is mans word about god. So also is the Quran and all the so called holy books.

jayriginal:

You are entitled to your opinions. Just to make sure the goal posts are not deftly shifted, I'll quote you again_____________

jayriginal:

A clever statement but I wont let you get away with it.
We might also say if there were no Harry Potter, there would be no books and movies about him. I dont believe in Allah neither do you, so concerning Islam for instance, you are atheist (maybe a-allah). Therefore by applying your logic, Allah exists cos you dont believe in him. Also all the other gods you dont believe in now exist by virtue of your unbelief in them. Nice one Ola, you have now "unbelieved" these gods into existence and they are now angry with you for your rejection of them.

jayriginal:

Aha!
Anticipated earlier. See below.

jayriginal:

You presume to know how I think, which is why you have laboured strenuously under the illusion that you can prove that I believe or know god. If you would shed your assumptions, you would find that you have undertaken the impossible. It would seem you already know that, as Ive been asking you for quite a while to get on with it and you have been pussyfooting.
Neither semantic gymnastics nor linguistic acrobatics will be of any use to you in your quest. Sophistry wont help either.

Enigma:

@ Olaadegbu

I don't know if you've seen it already but here is something you might find interesting.

[flash=400,300]http://youtube.com/v/gqqr-Vl-CYM[/flash]

mazaje:

Mutation that causes blonde hair and the mutations which caused lactose tolerance in human adults are all as a result of sin, eh?. . . Does OLAADEGBU know that even the Jews that created the genesis mythology do not believe in original since hypothesis?. . .Pls explain to us how sin causes mutation(detailed mechanism). . . .Enough of your nonsense. . . .

Deep Sight:

Why is anyone wasting energy over Dawkins, one of the most unintelligent people on the planet? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

OLAADEGBU:

Follow this conversation between a biblical creationist "C" and an evolutionist "E" as they discuss some recent scientific news headlines and see how it answers you questions:

E:   Have you heard about the research findings regarding mouse evolution?  

C:   Are you referring to the finding of coat colour change in beach mice?  

E:   Yes, isn't it a wonderful example of evolution in action?  

C:   No, I think it's a good example of natural selection in action, which is merely selecting information that already exists.  

E:   Well, what about antibiotic resistance in bacteria?  Don't you think that's a good example of evolution occurring right before our eyes?  

C:    No, you seem to be confusing the terms "evolution" and "natural selection."

E:   But natural selection is the primary mechanism that drives evolution.    

C:   Natural selection doesn't drive molecule-to-man evolution; you are giving natural selection a power that it does not have - one that can supposedly add new information to the genome, as molecule-to-man-evolution requires.  But natural selection simply can't do that because it works with information that already exists.

PA1982:

You are really quite ignorant so I'm not surprised you make such an error as this

PA1982:

Original human have brown eyes. One colour.
Via mutations, they now have brown, grey, blue or green eyes. Four colours.
From one to four is a net gain.

Now explain to us why lactose tolerance is not a gain, either.

I'm sure you an interesting explanation for male n i p p l e s, too.

mazaje:

I asked a simple question. . .Where is your scientific explanation on how blonde hair and the mutations which caused lactose tolerance in human adults are all as a result of sin?. . . .You made that nonsensical claim so provide the scientific explanations for that, after all you claim you have all the scientific evidence in the bible, all we want is for you to point to it. . .

OLAADEGBU:

Scientists who are creationists would tell you that the blue colour in the blue eyes is as a result of the way light scatters off of the thin layer of brown-coloured melanin.

OLAADEGBU:

If you read my previous posts I explained my perspective on natural selection and mutatation which is obviously different from your perspective. The mutation creating lactose tolerance in human being doesn't add new information to the genome. Humans are born lactose-tolerant and others have what is called lactase persistence.

Martian:

Wow!

OLAADEGBU:
 . . . You better learn about DNA which is a molecule of heredity . . . .

OLAADEGBU:

Deep Sight link=topic=869536.msg10309264#msg10309264 date=1330623705:

Why is anyone wasting energy over Dawkins, one of the most unintelligent people on the planet? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

He is supposed to be the most intelligent atheist evolutionist.

OLAADEGBU:

To be an atheist you need to have perfect knowledge of all things to come to the conclusion that God does not exist.  Do you?

jayriginal:

You are burdened with the wrong idea of what it means to be an atheist.

OLAADEGBU:

You have to be able to answer foundational questions such as; What caused the universe to come to existence and where did the original energy or matter come from?  There are myths and there are true myths.  The creation account is true myth that is backed up with scientific evidence.  Show me the scientific evidence of your fairytale myth and I will show you the scientific evidence of the true myth and we will see whose worldview is based on a solid foundation.

OLAADEGBU:

Just as your colleagues are fund of doing.

OLAADEGBU:

Melanin determines the colour of the eye.  If the iris has a larger amount of melanin, it will be brown but if it has a little amount the eye will be blue. 

OLAADEGBU:

I believe the gods you mentioned exist but I do not have faith in them. 

OLAADEGBU:

We have a name we call them, they all tremble at the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

OLAADEGBU:


Ignorance is bliss, right?  You better learn about DNA which is a molecule of heredity that is passed from parents to children as this will explain how you get the amount of melanin.

OLAADEGBU:

I have no problem giving you the evidence but why have you developed cold feet when I said you should be prepared to be committed as soon as I make my case?

mazaje:

^^
I wasted 10 mins watching the video expecting to see something nice or interesting, the theist made not interesting point or argument, just regurgitated the same spurious arguments like, our God is eternal and not man made with out providing any evidence for that and forgetting that his entire God idea and beliefs came from other men and his alleged word of God is NOTHING but the writings, thoughts, ideas and conception of other men and their superstitions that were written down. . .

OLAADEGBU:

Merely saying this does not show how you logically disproved this it just shows your emotional outburst.

Scientists who are creationists would tell you that the blue colour in the blue eyes is as a result of the way light scatters off of the thin layer of brown-coloured melanin.

PA1982:

Thus writes the master of argument by comix?
Come, come, you can do better than that.


Source, please. I'd like to read the article, especially considering the lack of 'brown' eye colour chromosones in those us who don't have brown eyes.

mazaje:

The scientific process of sin causing mutation is what I want you to provide, you made the claim so provide the evidence already. . . .It shouldn't be a hard thing for you, after all the bible contains all the scientific explanations, no?. . .

PA1982:

Thus writes the master of argument by comix?
Come, come, you can do better than that.

Source, please. I'd like to read the article, especially considering the lack of 'brown' eye colour chromosones in those us who don't have brown eyes.

What Have Mutations Really Changed?
Most people have heard the term gene but are less familiar with the term allele (pronounced uh-LEEL). A “gene” is a specific segment of DNA that contains the code for specific traits, such as eye color, and most genes code for more than one trait. Alleles are the various versions of genes that appear in a population. When we speak of “genetic diversity” or “differences” in genes, we mean that there are multiple alleles of a particular gene, not that there are entirely new or different genes.

God initially created some alleles in Adam and Eve, but others were generated by mutations, or mistakes, in DNA copying. For example, every human has a gene for eye color, called OCA2. Different variations of OCA2, called alleles, are believed to code for brown, hazel, or blue eyes. Everyone has a copy of this OCA2 gene, but our individual eye colors are determined by which OCA2 alleles we have.

When we look at humans today, we want to know where all these variations came from. Did these variations exist before the Flood, or did they appear after the Flood? By studying the frequency of alleles and the geographic distribution of alleles, we try to reconstruct what ancient populations might have been like and when they changed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

D. L. Duffy et al., “A Three-Single-Nucleotide Polymorphism Haplotype in Intron 1 of OCA2 Explains Most Human Eye-Color Variation,” American Journal of Human Genetics 80 (2007): 241–252.

OLAADEGBU:


Scientists who are creationists would tell you that the blue colour in the blue eyes is as a result of the way light scatters off of the thin layer of brown-coloured melanin.

mantraa:

@Olaadegbu

Have you read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins?

Enigma:

See the impact that knowledge/understanding of what DNA represents had on one of the evangelical atheists' greatest champions of all time.

[flash=400,300]http://youtube.com/v/X1e4FUhfHiU[/flash]

Enigma:


He is supposed to be the most intelligent atheist evolutionist.



He is the pope of evangelical atheists!

jayriginal:

Let me quote myself here.
You need to let go of your pre conceived notions of atheism. Very soon like Frosbel used to, you will advocate killing of atheists.

jayriginal:

No I do not need to be able to answer such questions. They have no bearing on my lack of belief. For you, not being able to answer such questions is a an itch that must be scratched with god did it. Its good enough for you and therefore, others must accept it too. Not so.

I have no fairy tales or myths, neither do I need one.

jayriginal:

Whats this ? You make a statement and I show you it can be applied to you. Is that a "sin" ?

jayriginal:

Im not interested in this. I want you to establish your boisterous claim.

jayriginal:

Well you should. It would even your chances.

jayriginal:

As you believe you believe.

jayriginal:

Like I said earlier (its too far down for me to quote), I can provide a basic explanation of DNA. I can even get sufficiently advanced information from the internet. I am not interested. The DNA proves itself not god. Why do you persist with the charade? I dont need science to stop believing in your god or any of the other man made gods. Why is DNA evidence for your god and not allah ?
If this is your proof, it is an utter fail.

jayriginal:

Cold feet ke ? Have I not been begging you for about three pages to prove your case ?

jayriginal:

It would seem that you cannot do away with assumptions because without them you really have nothing to say.
Get on with the proof. Feel free to discuss your theory of sin caused mutations with someone else. I will not engage you on that on this thread. I just want you to make good your boast.

mazaje:

You stated this nonsense drivel, now you are coming up with another drivel for us to read. . .Did you bother to read the drivel that was written in the article you provided?. . .Answers in genesis is a pseudo-scientific website. . .Non of the the drivel they write is acceptable science. . . .

"Darwin's Rottweiler is about to get a run for his money, " - BBC

The God Delusion, the world-wide best-seller by atheist and scientist Prof. Richard Dawkins, is an all-out assault on religion in general and Christianity in particular. One year after its publication, fellow Oxford Professor John Lennox met Dawkins in Birmingham, Alabama to put his assertions to the test in a clash between two of the greatest minds in the science-religion debate.

Remaining true to our goal of engaging secular culture on critical issues in a thoughtful, respectful manner, Fixed Point Foundation sponsored The God Delusion Debate. The debate pits Dawkins against his Oxford University colleague Professor John Lennox, who is both a scientist and a Christian theologian. In this, his first visit to the so-called "Bible Belt," Dawkins debates his views as expressed in The God Delusion and their validity over and against the Christian faith. The event garnered national and international attention from The Times of London, NPR, BBC, Christian Post, and Fox News Network. Spectator Magazine called the debate "remarkable," and still others have called it historic.

The God Delusion Debate was filmed on before a sold-out crowd at the University of Alabama-Birmingham's Alys Stephens Center and broadcast live to a global audience of over one million.

For the full debate, see http://www.fixed-point.org .

OLAADEGBU:

You see drivel because of the evolutionist spectacles you use in viewing the evidence. When you begin to use the proper spectacle to see clearly then you will know that mutations that create lactose tolerance in human beings does not add any information to the genome as your scum-pond-to-humans evolution fails to see. You will also see that human beings are born to produce the lactose-digesting enzyme lactase and eventually some human beings stop producing these lactase while others have a nucleotide switch in their DNA which can keep lactase into adulthood.