Enigma:

You started the thread; then when the questions got (only mildly) tough, you started saying everyone should hold to their own beliefs. Now you are posting this video all over the place, I'll give you the same response and offer you the same deal as on the other thread.

I do have a day time Job you know

Allow me address this question in the next hour or so, currently busy.

Thanks.

Image123:

Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,.
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshiped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshiped him.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Deuteronomy 33:27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them. FATHER
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. SON
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? SPIRIT

The Father, The Son, and the Spirit have an EQUALITY of function like no other. It is in the beginning God, God there been 'Elohim' which is plural of the Supreme being, and appearing hundreds of times in scripture. It is God that made the heaven and earth. It is God that raised Jesus, it is God that spake to the prophets, yet they are so interchangeably and seemlessly ''substituted'' for the other all through scriptures.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Christ is actually the Son of the Holy Ghost, who is God the Spirit.

2Corinth 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spiri[/b]t: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 [b]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 17:10 And ALL mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.


2Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

1Corinthians 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghos[/b]t which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that [b]ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore J[b]esus also, that he might sanctify[/b] the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Eph 5:26 That he might sanctif[/b]y and cleanse it
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being [b]sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
i should not be giving scriptures for that, i hope?
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and[b] his redeemer[/b] the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy king cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an Bottom, and a colt the foal of an Bottom.
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Phi 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Chris[/b]t:
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, [b]the first and the last.
Time would fail me to continue to list these things so evidently set in scriptures, yet a mystery.

Etc. etc,
Respected friend:
If you had read my post, had understood that I put at the disposal documents of the Catholic Church, showing that the divinity of Jesus as God, did not happen before the year 325. The passages you cite (Peter, Mattheus, etc. etc.) are much older, do not tell us that Jesus is God, Jesus never said that, neither did his disciples, and the Bible never considered him a god or the old or the new testament.
I would like a commentary on the Council of Nicea.
Maybe then we would talk about the same.
I hope you do not feel offended by my comment.
A warm greeting!

Ptolomeus:


Etc. etc,
Respected friend:
If you had read my post, had understood that I put at the disposal documents of the Catholic Church, showing that the divinity of Jesus as God, did not happen before the year 325. The passages you cite (Peter, Mattheus, etc. etc.) are much older, do not tell us that Jesus is God, Jesus never said that, neither did his disciples, and the Bible never considered him a god or the old or the new testament.
I would like a commentary on the Council of Nicea.
Maybe then we would talk about the same.
I hope you do not feel offended by my comment.
A warm greeting!

You obviously have very little knowledge of the bible, and seem to be repeating what you heard.

I can quote dozens of verses to prove that Jesus Christ is indeed GOD , but what's the point, many on this forum are set in their ways and even if you shoved the truth in their face they will still accept a lie.

Do some study pal.

Jesus' disciples believed Him to be God and belived in God as Trinity loooooooooooooooong before the Nicene Council.

Again as the misinformation about the Nicene council has come up, I refer people to following link and maybe it will help to disabuse their minds of the misinformation.  

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-497445.64.html#msg7181702

frosbel:

You obviously have very little knowledge of the bible, and seem to be repeating what you heard.

I can quote dozens of verses to prove that Jesus Christ is indeed GOD , but what's the point, many on this forum are set in their ways and even if you shoved the truth in their face they will still accept a lie.

Do some study pal.

I apply my knowledge of the Bible where applicable. Not in this case.
You judge me without knowing me, I regret that my comment has bothered him much.
You do not want to understand that if the Bible had spoken of trilogy, or Constantine, or the Catholic Church have bothered to declare that change. Read about the council.
Learn. It is good to read something other than the Bible, even if the Vatican document.
You see, I would not disqualify you, but simply express my arguments.

Enigma:

Jesus' disciples believed Him to be God and belived in God as Trinity loooooooooooooooong before the Nicene Council.

Again as the misinformation about the Nicene council has come up, I refer people to following link and maybe it will help to disabuse their minds of the misinformation.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-497445.64.html#msg7181702

Dear friend.
After Jesus died, his followers split into several groups fighting among themselves for supremacy. This is a historical fact that no one can deny.
Do you think the Catholic Church and Constantino bother to make a council to declare something that was accepted from more than 300 years ago?
It was not until 381, with the Emperor Theodosius, who officially accepted the trilogy.
Contradictory is not it? .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
My respects.

Ptolomeus:


Etc. etc,
Respected friend:
If you had read my post, had understood that I put at the disposal documents of the Catholic Church, showing that the divinity of Jesus as God, did not happen before the year 325. The passages you cite (Peter, Mattheus, etc. etc.) are much older, do not tell us that Jesus is God, Jesus never said that, neither did his disciples, and the Bible never considered him a god or the old or the new testament.
I would like a commentary on the Council of Nicea.
Maybe then we would talk about the same.
I hope you do not feel offended by my comment.
A warm greeting!

When someone's shot you on the head with all due respects, and warm greetings. So much for being politically correct. I'm aware of the council of Nicea. My convictions on the Trinity are before my knowledge of such council, and firmly rooted in the scriptures, not in church Fathers and politics. I'm not offended BTW

Image123:

When someone's shot you on the head with all due respects, and warm greetings. So much for being politically correct. I'm aware of the council of Nicea. My convictions on the Trinity are before my knowledge of such council, and firmly rooted in the scriptures, not in church Fathers and politics. I'm not offended BTW

I'm sorry you felt that you've shot to the head just to give my opinion, and make available the reasons and documents that support it. I do not usually shoot anyone, so do the fans who only want to impose their ideas. That is not my case, I am a man of peace.
I agree that you are convinced of something different to what I documented. Everyone has right to choose.
I have given dates and historical documents endorsed by the Catholic Church.
You say that "I'm convinced otherwise" ,  Well, there are different ways to expose.
But again I say that nobody here is imposing his idea, but giving information.
Sorry if you felt hurt, and if you think of my disagreement "politically incorrect". Thank you for your interest in educating me and explain things that are right and which are not, but I have been educated and have educated my children who fortunately are people known for their sense of ethics and morality.
I do not feel offended
Best regards!

your right there is no trinity there is tri unity there all the same person

bump

Enigma: ^^^ The confusion in part arises from a lack of understanding or misunderstanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

The Bible says (a) the Father is God; (b) Jesus is God; and (c) the Holy Spirit is God.

That already tells us that there is something to grapple with beyond normal human perception.

From a purely intellectual (rather than a spiritual) perspective, a proper understanding of the concept of consubstantiality can be of considerable help.

By the way, the Trinity doctrine is indeed a catholic doctrine but not simply a Roman Catholic doctrine. To say it is a c[/i]atholic doctrine simply means it is a doctrine of the [i]universal church. Check the following link to see how far back the Trinity doctrine had been recognised in one form or another waaaay before the Roman Catholic Church. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-497445.64.html#msg7181702

i think you are joking. It is stupidity that will make someone say that a doctrine was proclaimed before the catholic church.

frosbel: bump

im aware that you hate the catholic church but if anything this is a good discription of the trinity. It is called the athanasian creed. http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

Ptolomeus: Jesus never spoke of the existence of a trilogy.
Nor did his disciples.
The concept trilogy (Father, son, and holy spirit) starts to apply in the Catholic Church in 325 after the death of Jesus, to be held in the Council of Nicea. In the council convened by Constantino, discussed the "Arrian controversy" that is, the possible divine origin of Jesus.
This is not my personal opinion, but what is accepted and documented by the Vatican.

wow are you joking? A council does not invent a new belief, it only defends true doctrine. To claim that the trinity started in niceae is ignorance, niceae simply defended the doctrine against heresy.

I recommend reading on this subject, as the trilogy is very long after the death of Jesus, so that biblical quotations that have been published on this subject, are absolutely wrong and misleading.
I do not mean to offend anyone, simply provide documentation to clarify the issue.
My respects.

you think that the trinity began in the 4th century, i can provide proof that xtain belief in the trinity is as old as the belief in christ Jesus .

Your knowledge of history is pitiable

belabela: @ frosbel,

The church of Jesus Christ is holy and "catholic" i.e universal. The Roman catholic church is another thing entirely it means a church of roman origin that is universal.

not true, the church is the 'catholic church' the word roman was only added in the 18th century because anglical were claiming catholicity. In case you dont know the word 'roman' has been officially dropped, so to be simply call her 'the catholic church'.

The Nicene creed is agreed upon by most believers in Jesus Christ even some of those the Roman catholic church killed believe in it. And if I may tell you the Nicene creed summaries the christian faith as written in the new testament.

and incase you dont know, it was catholic bishops who formed the niceae creed, not protestant pastors.

The resurrection not the rapture is the hope of believers. in fact tell me what is wrong in the Nicene creed from scriptures.

nothing is wrong with the creed.

Again that some people were murdered because they refuse to believe "trinity"doctrine does not necessarily make both arguments right.

I don't support witchcraft yet I don't support the burning of witches. So would you now say witchcraft is good because witches were persecuted by the same roman catholic church that persecuted Christians?

hahaha, where did you get the idea that the catholic church persecuted xtians? My friend only heretic were persecuted.

Frosbel If I may say you are the one trying to hold unto your belief and depart from scriptures. the bible is clear that the being Jesus is different from the being the father and is different from the being the holy Spirit. I think it is people like you who do not understand what the church mean when it talks about trinity that are quick to commit another heresy by claiming God the father is thesame person transforming into Jesus and transforming into the HolySpirit.


Have you asked yourself who was God talking to when he said "let us make man in our image"?

Who does Jesus refer to as father?

From your logic you are saying when Jesus promised that he would sent the Holy Spirit he actually meant that he, Jesus, would actually change himself into the Holy Spirit.

frosbel I think you should study the bible for understanding and not lean on your logic.

very true

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

Let us stick to scripture and not base on our emotions.

Trinity as a term is never mentioned in the Bible and is a Pagan catholic doctrine, among many many others.

But God is ONE, even Christ our Lord made the following statement :

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29

As a Man , Jesus was made a little lower than the angels but in pre and post existence he is GOD.

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"- Colossians 2:9

Another problem with the Trinity Pagan doctrine is that we have the Father as 1, Jesus as 2 and the Holy Spirit as 3. This is wrong imo , God is one, coequal as Father , Son and Holy Spirit.

What matters the most is that we all accept :

1. The divinity of Jesus
2. His sacrifice for our sins
3. He conquered death
4. He is coming again
5. He will judge the world and punish the evil doers
6. He will rule forever

frosbel:

Let us stick to scripture and not base on our emotions.

If you had stuck to the Scriptures in the first place instead of paroting the 'oneness doctrine' there would have been no need for any emotional outburts.

frosbel:

Trinity as a term is never mentioned in the Bible and is a Pagan catholic doctrine, among many many others.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

I can also say that the word 'grandfather' is never mentioned in the Bible, does that mean no such person exists therein?

frosbel:

But God is ONE, even Christ our Lord made the following statement :

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29

As a Man , Jesus was made a little lower than the angels but in pre and post existence he is GOD.

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"- Colossians 2:9

Scriptures also indicate there is three-in-oneness in the godhead. In Matthew 28:19, the resurrected Jesus instructed the disciples, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). The word name is singular in Greek, thereby indicating God’s oneness. However, the definite articles in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (in the original Greek) indicate they are distinct personalities, even though there is just one God.

These distinct personalities relate to each other. The Father and the Son, for example, know each other (Matthew 11:27), love each other (John 3:35), speak to each other (John 11:41-42). The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at His baptism (Luke 3:22), He is called another comforter or helper (John 14:16), He was sent by the Father and Jesus (John 15:26), and He seeks to glorify Jesus (John 16:13-14).

frosbel:

Another problem with the Trinity Pagan doctrine is that we have the Father as 1, Jesus as 2 and the Holy Spirit as 3. This is wrong imo , God is one, coequal as Father , Son and Holy Spirit.

You are confusing the doctrine of the trinity with polytheism. The Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods and these constituted 3 separate gods, which is utterly different from the doctrine of trinity. The doctrine of trinity, if you may know, maintains that there is only one God with 3 Persons within the one Godhead.

A simple analogy of the trinity which may help you understand it is that God is like a triangle that is one figure yet has three different sides (or corners) at the same time. So there is a simultaneous threeness and oneness. Of course, no analogy is perfect since in every analogy there is a similarity and a difference. The difference here is that "sides" or "corners" are not persons. Nonetheless, the triangle does illustrate how there can be threeness and oneness at the same time. While there is one God, there are three persons within the One God. QED.

frosbel:

What matters the most is that we all accept :

1. The divinity of Jesus
2. His sacrifice for our sins
3. He conquered death
4. He is coming again
5. He will judge the world and punish the evil doers
6. He will rule forever

The bolded above is where we differ from the RCC. They and some other cults believe that Jesus Christ is divine but not deity. Check up on this before you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

OLAADEGBU:

If you had stuck to the Scriptures in the first place instead of paroting the 'oneness doctrine' there would have been no need for any emotional outburts.



I can also say that the word 'grandfather' is never mentioned in the Bible, does that mean no such person exists therein?



Scriptures also indicate there is three-in-oneness in the godhead. In Matthew 28:19, the resurrected Jesus instructed the disciples, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). The word name is singular in Greek, thereby indicating God’s oneness. However, the definite articles in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (in the original Greek) indicate they are distinct personalities, even though there is just one God.

These distinct personalities relate to each other. The Father and the Son, for example, know each other (Matthew 11:27), love each other (John 3:35), speak to each other (John 11:41-42). The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at His baptism (Luke 3:22), He is called another comforter or helper (John 14:16), He was sent by the Father and Jesus (John 15:26), and He seeks to glorify Jesus (John 16:13-14).



You are confusing the doctrine of the trinity with polytheism. The Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods and these constituted 3 separate gods, which is utterly different from the doctrine of trinity. The doctrine of trinity, if you may know, maintains that there is only one God with 3 Persons within the one Godhead.

A simple analogy of the trinity which may help you understand it is that God is like a triangle that is one figure yet has three different sides (or corners) at the same time. So there is a simultaneous threeness and oneness. Of course, no analogy is perfect since in every analogy there is a similarity and a difference. The difference here is that "sides" or "corners" are not persons. Nonetheless, the triangle does illustrate how there can be threeness and oneness at the same time. While there is one God, there are three persons within the One God. QED.



The bolded above is where we differ from the RCC. They and some other cults believe that Jesus Christ is divine but not deity. Check up on this before you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

The deity of our Lord and Saviour cannot be argued.

Jesus Christ is GOD in the 'flesh ' , in him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily ,end of story. I have held on to this for 25 years, so don't panic

Let us move on to preach the good news of the kingdom

Blessings

frosbel:

The deity of our Lord and Saviour cannot be argued.

Jesus Christ is GOD in the 'flesh ' , in him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily ,end of story. I have held on to this for 25 years, so don't panic

Let us move on to preach the good news of the kingdom

Blessings

On the surface the doctrine of oneness pentecostalism may be harmless but when you scratch the surface you will discover the subtle heresy lurking in the corner. Check this weblink to see why.

http://www.joywell.org/apologetics/oneness.html

OLAADEGBU:

If you had stuck to the Scriptures in the first place instead of paroting the 'oneness doctrine' there would have been no need for any emotional outburts.



http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

I can also say that the word 'grandfather' is never mentioned in the Bible, does that mean no such person exists therein?



Scriptures also indicate there is three-in-oneness in the godhead. In Matthew 28:19, the resurrected Jesus instructed the disciples, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). The word name is singular in Greek, thereby indicating God’s oneness. However, the definite articles in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (in the original Greek) indicate they are distinct personalities, even though there is just one God.

These distinct personalities relate to each other. The Father and the Son, for example, know each other (Matthew 11:27), love each other (John 3:35), speak to each other (John 11:41-42). The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at His baptism (Luke 3:22), He is called another comforter or helper (John 14:16), He was sent by the Father and Jesus (John 15:26), and He seeks to glorify Jesus (John 16:13-14).



You are confusing the doctrine of the trinity with polytheism. The Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods and these constituted 3 separate gods, which is utterly different from the doctrine of trinity. The doctrine of trinity, if you may know, maintains that there is only one God with 3 Persons within the one Godhead.

A simple analogy of the trinity which may help you understand it is that God is like a triangle that is one figure yet has three different sides (or corners) at the same time. So there is a simultaneous threeness and oneness. Of course, no analogy is perfect since in every analogy there is a similarity and a difference. The difference here is that "sides" or "corners" are not persons. Nonetheless, the triangle does illustrate how there can be threeness and oneness at the same time. While there is one God, there are three persons within the One God. QED.



The bolded above is where we differ from the RCC. They and some other cults believe that Jesus Christ is divine but not deity. Check up on this before you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

wow, good post. Your last paragraph talks about the differences, can you explain more? What do you mean by 'diety' and 'divine'. Jesus ofcourse is God, he possess the divine substance, so where did you get the idea that catholic dont belief that Jesus is God?

Ubenedictus:

wow, good post. Your last paragraph talks about the differences, can you explain more? What do you mean by 'diety' and 'divine'. Jesus ofcourse is God, he possess the divine substance, so where did you get the idea that catholic dont belief that Jesus is God?

Check the suggested link below for the differences.

http://www.mtc.org/dtrcc.html

OLAADEGBU:

On the surface the doctrine of oneness pentecostalism may be harmless but when you scratch the surface you will discover the subtle heresy lurking in the corner. Check this weblink to see why.

http://www.joywell.org/apologetics/oneness.html

Not sure what you mean by oneness.

God is ONE, stop assigning 3 different persons to one GOD . God cannot be 3 Different 'people' , he is ONE Person acting through the ages out of his mercy and Love in different ways.


Ever heard of the mystery of godliness ?

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." - 1 Timothy 3:16


God is ONE in 3 distinct roles with Christ as the fulness of the godhead bodily.

Also God is Spirit and has ONE Spirit not 2. In essence God is Spirit which is the Holy Spirit or his presence in our lives when we are born again. To suggest that God is a Spirit is different from the Holy Spirit is just plain wrong.

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10


A lot of Catholic church pagan doctrines have infiltrated the church and we just tag along for tradition sake. Count me out.


I also believe in the baptism , which is in the name of the Father ( in Heaven ), the Son (our Saviour) and the Holy Spirit (our comforter).


"one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all"- Ephesians 4:6

Let us use scripture in the right context.

frosbel:

Not sure what you mean by oneness.

God is ONE, stop assigning 3 different persons to one GOD . God cannot be 3 Different 'people' , he is ONE Person acting through the ages out of his mercy and Love in different ways.


Ever heard of the mystery of godliness ?

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." - 1 Timothy 3:16

God is ONE in 3 distinct roles with Christ as the fulness of the godhead bodily.

Also God is Spirit and has ONE Spirit not 2. In essence God is Spirit which is the Holy Spirit or his presence in our lives when we are born again. To suggest that God is a Spirit is different from the Holy Spirit is just plain wrong.

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10


A lot of Catholic church pagan doctrines have infiltrated the church and we just tag along for tradition sake. Count me out.


I also believe in the baptism , which is in the name of the Father ( in Heaven ), the Son (our Saviour) and the Holy Spirit (our comforter).


"one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all"- Ephesians 4:6

Let us use scripture in the right context.

How do you explain the Baptism of Jesus where we see 3 different Persons in action in the verses below?

"And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11).

Would you say that the God was speaking to Himself?

"Come near to me, hear this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, has sent me" (Isaiah 48:16).

Can you detect how many Persons there were in this OT verse?

frosbel: Let us stick to scripture and not base on our emotions.

Trinity as a term is never mentioned in the Bible and is a Pagan catholic doctrine, among many many others.

But God is ONE, even Christ our Lord made the following statement :

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29

I just noticed that the weblink I suggested had answered questions 'oneness' folks as your usually ask, and it goes like this, I quote:

Duet. 6:4 does not deny the Trinity, but rather affirms one of the tenets of the doctrine of the Trinity (see above). The doctrine of the Trinity affirms that there is "one God." Quite often, those who argue against the Trinity don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity well enough to explain it, much less refute it. They exaggerate and distort the doctrine of the Trinity into something that can be easily dispelled. That is known as the straw man fallacy. The name of the straw man fallacy comes from the idea that if you set up a straw man, he is easier to knock down than a real man. That is exactly the way the fallacy works, set up a distorted view and knock it down. In dealing with Deut.6:4, the oneness apologists set up a distorted straw man view of the Trinity and then knock it down. They claim that the Trinity is a belief in three Gods in order to make the doctrine contradict the Bible.

You can see that your argument is a Strawman's fallacy.

frosbel:
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"- Colossians 2:9

This is another usual argument that was refuted in the suggested link:

Since Colossians 2:9 says that the fulness of "the Godhead" dwells in Jesus, Oneness writers have argued that the Godhead is in Jesus, not Jesus in the Godhead. This either/or approach, however, causes the oneness interpretation of Colossians 2:9 to contradict their interpretation of John 10:38 where Jesus states, "the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father." Since "the Father" in oneness theology is "the Godhead," John 10:38 in their terms would mean that the Godhead is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Godhead. When Oneness believers deny that "Jesus is in the Godhead," what they mean to deny is that Jesus is one person in a triune Godhead. Colossians 2:9, though, does not rule out that possibility. What it affirms is that Jesus is no less than the full and complete revelation of God's nature ('theotetos', "deity" in the flesh. While not all three persons of God are incarnate in Jesus, all of God's essence is incarnate in Jesus.

Do you see how this argument of yours was dismantled?

I have some questions for you:

Do you also believe that a person is only saved when one undergoes water baptism?

Do you baptise folks only in the name of Jesus and discountenance baptism done in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost?

How far do you carry your oneness doctrine?

OLAADEGBU:

This is another usual argument that was refuted in the suggested link:



Do you see how this argument of yours was dismantled?

I have some questions for you:

Do you also believe that a person is only saved when one undergoes water baptism?

Do you baptise folks only in the name of Jesus and discountenance baptism done in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost?

How far do you carry your oneness doctrine?

God is 1.

God is not 3

3 People cannot be one.

I person can manifest in 3 different forms or roles.

This catholic doctrine has been around for so long, we just accept it without a proper assessment.


"And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11).

Th Spirit here is GOD , GOD's Spirit, what is so difficult with this one.

Also when you read the book of revelation the final book of the bible, can you tell me why the Spirit is not mentioned :

" And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him."

God is ONE !!

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

frosbel:

God is 1.

God is not 3

3 People cannot be one.

I person can manifest in 3 different forms or roles.

This catholic doctrine has been around for so long, we just accept it without a proper assessment.

"And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11).

Th Spirit here is GOD , GOD's Spirit, what is so difficult with this one.

What you are doing is throwing out the baby with the bath water. No one is saying that God is not one and the Bible does not say that we serve 3 Gods. The Father is God speaking from heaven, the Holy Spirit is also God that proceeded from God the Father and descended on God the Son coming out of the baptismal water.

frosbel:

Also when you read the book of revelation the final book of the bible, can you tell me why the Spirit is not mentioned :

" And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him."

God is ONE !!

You have not been reading your Bible. The same Revelation 22:17 said the following:

"And the Spirit and bride say , Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely"

frosbel:

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

If you had perused the link I suggested you wouldn't be parroting the same arguments they refuted. Here again is their response to your claim:

The Darby Bible and Young's Literal Translation both render this passage as "Father of Eternity.’
Isa.9:6 (Darby Bible)
6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace."
Isa.9:6 (Young's Literal Translation)
6 "For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace."
Dr. Robert Bowman points out that Abiethon - literally "father of strength" (2 Sam. 23:31) means "strong"; Abiaseph - literally "father of gathering" (Ex.6:24) means "gatherer"; and Abigail - literally "father of exultation" (1 Chron.2:16) is a woman's name meaning "exulting." Therefore, "Father of eternity" in Isaiah 9:6 means that Jesus is "eternal." According to Matthew Henry's Commentary this implies that Jesus is the creator of the ages (Heb.1:2; 11:3). It does not mean that He is "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Cor.1:3).

OLAADEGBU:

What you are doing is throwing out the baby with the bath water. No one is saying that God is not one and the Bible does not say that we serve 3 Gods. The Father is God speaking from heaven, the Holy Spirit is also God that proceeded from God the Father and descended on God the Son coming out of the baptismal water.



You have not been reading your Bible. The same Revelation 22:17 said the following:

"And the Spirit and bride say , Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely"



If you had perused the link I suggested you wouldn't be parroting the same arguments they refuted. Here again is their response to your claim:

Okay , so with OLAADEGBU's understanding , even though the bible says GOD is a Spirit, this is separate from the Holy Spirit. Strange I would say !

Try spinning this :

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10


But I am shocked that you use the Darby bible and possibly also the Schofield , seeing that these 2 men almost single handedly led the church into error , hence the reason for not a few doctrinal errors in the church today.

My friend , stop following deeper life doctrine, it is not infallible, this is the same mistake made by the Catholics, let us stick to the bible.

Good night .

frosbel:

Okay , so with OLAADEGBU's understanding , even though the bible says GOD is a Spirit, this is separate from the Holy Spirit. Strange I would say !

Try spinning this :

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10

If you read the whole of John 4:24 you will realise that Jesus Christ, the second Person in the trinity is also the truth. See John 14:6. Jesus also spoke about the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send after He had ascended:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).

frosbel:

But I am shocked that you use the Darby bible and possibly also the Schofield , seeing that these 2 men almost single handedly led the church into error , hence the reason for not a few doctrinal errors in the church today.

My friend , stop following deeper life doctrine, it is not infallible, this is the same mistake made by the Catholics, let us stick to the bible.

Good night .

Have I not warned you about getting too close to PastorKun? Don't you see how you are now dangling precariously on a slippery slope?

OLAADEGBU:

Check the suggested link below for the differences.

http://www.mtc.org/dtrcc.html

you know what? You never cease to amaze me, i ask where you get the idea that catholic dont believe that Jesus is God and what i get is all crap, a website that doesnt even talk about the trinity, the protestant who owns that site really needs to do some reading into catholic doctrine before he start talking crap, he really needs to be able to learn and understand because i seriously question is ability to reason and lastly he needs to open his bible ask for the holy spirit. Actually the first time i ever thought that you were matured enough or maybe ready to let your maturity show, i get a site that is off topic and doesnt know the abc of theology.
Thank you for graciously insulting me.

grailife: Mattew 28. 16-20
The eleven disciples went to the hill in Galilee where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshipped him, even though some of them doubted. Jesus drew near and said to them, I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Go, then, to all peoples everywhere and make them my disciples: baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teach them to obey everything I have commanded you. And I will be with you always, to the end of the age.

I'm I the only one seeing the gender issue hia. Was quite wondering why is it 'only SON' (Male) and not 'only SON and DAUGHTER (Female). Just saying. By the way dis is my virgin post on this thread

OLAADEGBU:

If you read the whole of John 4:24 you will realise that Jesus Christ, the second Person in the trinity is also the truth. See John 14:6. Jesus also spoke about the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send after He had ascended:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).

And the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit , is different from GOD who is Spirit, right

So even though GOD is Spirit, there is also the Holy Spirit.

You need to stop conversing with the Catholics honestly

The Holy Spirit is what makes GOD omnipresent , period !

Have I not warned you about getting too close to PastorKun? Don't you see how you are now dangling precariously on a slippery slope?

Indeed PastorKun

^^^ Is Jesus "spirit" or not?

Ubenedictus:

you know what? You never cease to amaze me, i ask where you get the idea that catholic dont believe that Jesus is God and what i get is all crap, a website that doesnt even talk about the trinity, the protestant who owns that site really needs to do some reading into catholic doctrine before he start talking crap, he really needs to be able to learn and understand because i seriously question is ability to reason and lastly he needs to open his bible ask for the holy spirit. Actually the first time i ever thought that you were matured enough or maybe ready to let your maturity show, i get a site that is off topic and doesnt know the abc of theology.
Thank you for graciously insulting me.

If you truly read that site you will realise that the Jesus you worship is different from the Jesus of the Bible. Muslims have been deceived as to what the trinity actually means because your church taught Mo that Mary is the third person in trinity, that is, the spouse of the Holy Spirit. Read more about this heresy in the link below if you may.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc126.htm