It is a fact that many believers have come to
accept that through suffering they can come
under the mercy of God, and thereby redeem
their past sins. As such they indulge in self denials
and lead austere existence. But God does not will that His people should suffer!
He wills only joy, love and happiness, as we can
see with all that we call His Work of Creation.
So, is suffering a neccesary step towards salvation??

Actually Salvation is free and there is nothing you can do to atain it or obtain it, all you need is faith and believe in on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved , Jesus only is the saviour.

Honestly I have never seen a person who is at peace with themselves come to the salvation of Christ. It’s usually a last lifeline for those who feel hopeless, broken and there is no other way to turn. Really. . .why is it when one is sinking suddenly a lifeguard appears and says. . .hey take this lifering on one condition . . sign the dotted line which agrees that you accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour. . .(you know, kinda like those debt commercials).
So yeah, I think suffering is a necessary step to “salvation” because if no one was suffering there would be a whole lot less prayers and quickie conversions I tell you now.
The process of humbling oneself or being humbled is perhaps a necessary step.

You're talking about the christian version of salvation, of course. You are absolutely spot on if so.

emöfine:

Honestly I have never seen a person who is at peace with themselves come to the salvation of Christ. It’s usually a last lifeline for those who feel hopeless, broken and there is no other way to turn. Really. . .why is it when one is sinking suddenly a lifeguard appears and says. . .hey take this lifering on one condition . . sign the dotted line which agrees that you accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour. . .(you know, kinda like those debt commercials).
So yeah, I think suffering is a necessary step to “salvation” because if no one was suffering there would be a whole lot less prayers and quickie conversions I tell you now.
The process of humbling oneself or being humbled is perhaps a necessary step.

Then, it is not free. Self-contradiction 101. And no, Jesus is not the only saviour.

Brodafred:

Actually Salvation is free and there is nothing you can do to atain it or obtain it, all you need is faith and believe in on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved , Jesus only is the saviour.

Actually, intense suffering can lead one to salvation because, in extreme cases, it can free one from the grip of the ego which is the cause of all sufferings.

But Christ has borne all our sufferings, and so is it d will of God 4 us to still suffer even after Christ's redemption??

No, he hasn't. That is so delusional. Your suffering is your suffering. No other being can take your suffering away from you by taking it upon himself. That is just ludicrous. You either work to get yourself released of your suffering or you live with it as your fate.

Dap07:

But Christ has borne all our sufferings, and so is it d will of God 4 us to still suffer even after Christ's redemption??

Dap07:

But Christ has borne all our sufferings, and so is it d will of God 4 us to still suffer even after Christ's redemption??

Let’s be honest. Who would remember to pray to this deity if they weren’t afflicted?

Also isn’t suffering considered a trial to test one’s faith (in Christianity)?

Lastly, how did Christ "borne all our sufferings"? Please explain. Or do you mean what Man would have suffered if the "messiah" never came down to die for our consolidated sins?

A life without Christ is a life of crisis either within or outside.

Persecution is a sign of repentance as a christian cannot be at peace with Satan. Even Christ asked his disciples to rejoice at being persecuted. Peter was crucified upside down. John was killed in boiling oil. They were true disciples. Yes?

The bible says we should carry our cross,

'Go and sell all your property, give the money to the poor, then come and follow me'' This is a sign that self denial is needed for salvation.

That is just ludicrous. You either work to get yourself released of your suffering or you live with it as your fate. [img]http://www.demama.info/g.php[/img]

No

Dap07:

It is a fact that many believers have come to
accept that through suffering they can come
under the mercy of God, and thereby redeem
their past sins. As such they indulge in self denials
and lead austere existence. But God does not will that His people should suffer!
He wills only joy, love and happiness, as we can
see with all that we call His Work of Creation.
So, is suffering a neccesary step towards salvation??

So wrong from sentence to sentence. No believer takes such as fact. It's unbelievers that would not believe that Jesus' sacrifice redeems us, but thinks he/she can redeem, or obtain God's mercy himself through suffering. God does not will ONLY love, joy and happiness. It could also be God's will that after you've suffered a while, He might make you perfect . All that live GODLY WILL SUFFER persecution. Christian and non-christians suffer but it's never a payment for salvation.

No, you do not have to suffer before you can be saved. And no, salvation is NOT free.
Someone was kind enough to pay the expensive price for you some years ago.

Everyone is born and then dies.
Whether in pain or not .Whether after much suffering or not .
Whether after much "success" or not.
This can all seem so pointless and so the need for "salvation"

If we accept that we, as we know ourselves, are indeed insignificant then we realise that there is neither the need nor the existence of  such a thing as salvation.

There is that which is permanent and there is that which is transient.

We and indeed our planet(itself several million years old) are in the category of the transient we are born and we die Other things will take our place

Is Suffering Necessary For Salvation?


No. Absolutely NOT!
It's just a way to make people living in opulence and luxury, and enjoy sadistically with the suffering of others.
The priests, the Pope, made ​​fast in the Vatican?
They deliver the gold in the Vatican to the poor?
You ever saw a priest deprived of a piece of bread to give to the poor?
If you want to marry, baptize a child, or celebrate a Mass for deceased and go to church: the priest does for free?
Perhaps a Pastor is willing to forgive the payment of tithes to someone without money?
"You do as I say, not as I do"
It is the advocacy of "unhappiness"

ANALOGY- when you get gold or diamond from the ground, it is very rough and filled with impurities. you have to refine it with fire to blast out all the impurities. so also is someone who is expected to get into the kingdom. you have to be refined, tested and tried so as to make you the perfect specimen. 'suffering' is how the rough get refined to the polish. its a very necessary part of salvation. if that step is missing in your life, then more than likely you are not getting salvation. you have to be broken down and then recombined. the old has to be broken down to bring in the new you. hence the saying 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to recieve salvation'. the rich man is already recieving his salvation on earth, why will he want to rock the boat, to try and get another salvation that he cant see ? a salvation that requires faith. give up his good life so he can try to get a salvation he cant see ? hell noooooo.

buzugee:

ANALOGY- when you get gold or diamond from the ground, it is very rough and filled with impurities. you have to refine it with fire to blast out all the impurities. so also is someone who is expected to get into the kingdom. you have to be refined, tested and tried so as to make you the perfect specimen. 'suffering' is how the rough get refined to the polish. its a very necessary part of salvation. if that step is missing in your life, then more than likely you are not getting salvation. you have to be broken down and then recombined. the old has to be broken down to bring in the new you. hence the saying 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to recieve salvation'. the rich man is already recieving his salvation on earth, why will he want to rock the boat, to try and get another salvation that he cant see ? a salvation that requires faith. give up his good life so he can try to get a salvation he cant see ? hell noooooo.

Then all the rich go to hell because they are bad, and all the poor go to heaven because they are good ??,
I know very wealthy people and big-hearted , to give more than they have.
I do not think wealth and poverty have nothing to do with salvation.
I think (for example) who charges a tithe and use it to their advantage is that "diamond" that needs to be polished.
In my opinion, be rich or poor, black or white, Jew or Gentile, male or female, should not be reasons that condition that call "salvation".
But if you say it is so , well , so it will be for Christians ,

It is a fact that many believers have come to accept that through suffering they can come under the mercy of God, and thereby redeem their past sins. As such they indulge in self denials and lead austere existence. This thinking is a distortion of the understanding of the mechanism of the Justice and Love of God!

God does not will that His people should suffer! He wills only joy, love and happiness, as we can see with all that we call His Work of Creation. Every leaf of our crop, every blade of grass in the fields, our daily sunshine, etc, all proclaim the love and express the Will of God.

Man alone is the source of his sufferings; mainly because he leads his life in a selfish and senseless way. In the process he hurts his fellow man and other creatures and thereby attracts the wrath of God, which is the same as acquiring dark, negative or evil karma. This then brings about his subsequent suffering, for it is true in the spiritual laws that each man or woman must reap that which he has sown.

So the present heavy suffering mankind is going through – be it with the economy, with mutual hatred and distrust, with corruption and criminality, to mention a few, was brought about by human beings themselves. God has no hand in it.

I choose to rephrase this and put it like this: Sacrifice making is necessary for salvation.
We must learn to make sacrifices just like our Lord Jesus did, and that's one of the pillars of christianity.

Ptolomeus:

Then all the rich go to hell because they are bad, and all the poor go to heaven because they are good ??,
I know very wealthy people and big-hearted ,  to give more than they have.
I do not think wealth and poverty have nothing to do with salvation.
I think (for example) who charges a tithe and use it to their advantage is that "diamond" that needs to be polished.
In my opinion, be rich or poor, black or white, Jew or Gentile, male or female, should not be reasons that condition that call "salvation".
But if you say it is so ,  well ,  so it will be for Christians ,

Well if you are very wealthy in a world full of poverty, you are not wealthy. neither do you have salvation. if your spirit has not been broken down and aligned to the point where it is in line with the kingdom then you are still lacking. this is what the kingdom is about >2 esdras 7 vs 43 'but the day of judgement will be the end of the present world and the beginning of the eternal world to come, a world in which corruption will have disappeared, vs 44all excess will be abolished  ' so if you are hoarding and holding on to excess amidst global poverty, then you really have not been broken down to the kingdom way of thinking and in essence you are holding on to your salvation on earth (it is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to recieve salvation)

and no, you dont go to heaven because you are poor. there are some poor evil people around  

buzugee:

and no, you dont go to heaven because you are poor. there are some poor evil people around

Exactly.
Now we are you and I agree.
No one is saved by being poor, and no one is condemned to be rich.
No one is saved by being male or female, white or black ,
A murderer can be very poor and live a simple life ,
I think that sometimes tries to make a simplistic caricature of some issues that wind up behind contradictions and conclusions that no one could believe it ,
Imagine.
"To win the sky let starve my children and I will stop working poor"
or
"I will not accept the job because the Dare with my family well, and that means going to hell"
Yes , it is contradictory , and also unacceptable.
I do not think God wants his children to be individuals deplorable, pitiable, beggars, the sick , At least there is the concept of religion and God that I have.

Ptolomeus:

Exactly.
Now we are you and I agree.
No one is saved by being poor, and no one is condemned to be rich.
No one is saved by being male or female, white or black ,
A murderer can be very poor and live a simple life ,
I think that sometimes tries to make a simplistic caricature of some issues that wind up behind contradictions and conclusions that no one could believe it ,
Imagine.
"To win the sky let starve my children and I will stop working poor"
or
"I will not accept the job because the Dare with my family well, and that means going to hell"
Yes ,  it is contradictory ,  and also unacceptable.
I do not think God wants his children to be individuals deplorable, pitiable, beggars, the sick ,  At least there is the concept of religion and God that I have.

2 esdras 7 vs 14 'evryone therefore must enter into this narrow and futile existence, otherwise they cannot attain the blessings in store'

and please no one is advocating poverty. you are entitled to a house, a car or two, money for bills and food and clothes. we are talking of 'excess wealth'. like if you have more than you need, like all these pastors buying private jets, oprah, dangote, otedola, bill gates, larry ellison, paul allen etc etc. those are excess

big no

For the Christians here, I'd really like us to get this straight. In salvation process suffering is not really a criteria. I would prefer to use the word trial than suffering cos he took all our shame and sufferings upon himself. The bible said 'he was bruise for our iniquities' that is so we'll not be bruise again, etc. In refining process such Which is found in gold does not really mean suffering, it could be term trial. Sometimes you may not really suffer physical and material challenges but could be spiritual, and of course he's promised us that he'll not allow temptation that's above us to tempt us. That's an assurance of victory in all. I want to repeat that suffering is not a necessity but could come in form of trials. Salvation is not also based on the living standard of any individual nor race but it had been paid for So now its free. 'for AS MANY that receive him he gave power to become sons of God'. Any1 is qualified. Suffering or no suffering you can still make heaven so far you've accepted him as your personal LORD and SAVIOUR.

Obviously, a life with your "christ" is also a life of crisis. Please, see boko haram and their targetting of christians. That is crisis without and within.

Joagbaje:

A life without Christ is a life of crisis either within or outside.

Nope.
But did christ suffer? yes.Was he persecuted? yes. Did he fall? No.

Simple.suffering creates endurance and perserverance.It makes us strong and ready for battles without giving in.

The big question you ought to ask is.What is the cause of your suffering? Is it foolishness,pride or your irresponsible nature?

The kind of suffering christ talks about is the one where you obey God, live by His laws and pay ceaser what is ceaser's.

In short obey God and the law of the land. Be a normal balanced christian representing christ well then suffer for that.

Most christians suffer as a result of stupidity then call it persecution.sorry cz misery/tribulation will kill you.

Suffer suffer for world. AMEN!
Enjoy for heaven. AMEN!
Christians go dey yarn, Inspiritus heavenus. AMEN!
Moslem go dey call, Allah akbar.