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Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? - Foreign Affairs (102) - Nairaland

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Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by CraigB: 7:23am On Dec 05, 2013
Now, assuming there was a correlation, for argument's sake - Naai-geria and say, the DRC could be graphed like so (below) - causation has been disproved because the hypothesis has failed in other analyses.

There needs to be other variables added. Mental simpletons are happy with their unbalanced linear story. The movement of people has always been influenced by trade and economics. Man conqured the elements ages ago. Leaving this variable out is idîotic. And linear thinking is lazy and stûpid.

Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by AwodwaGyanOniwe: 8:00am On Dec 05, 2013
@GraigB
MORPHEUS24 IS A "LOSER BY NATURE". Things get WORSE when he starts talking about "HISTORY".

I'm glad he has met people like us who attended AFRICAS TOP UNIVERSITIES. Note: To hide their stupidity they resort to insults when we insult them back. We get BANNED OR THEY CLOSE THREADS. grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

I see the thread now has shifted to suite their LOW IQ. grin grin grin grin grin
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by AwodwaGyanOniwe: 8:12am On Dec 05, 2013
@Morpheus24
[b]I laughed at your post the other day when you telling your friends on NL about Xhosas and coloureds. You even claimed to your BLIND friends you knew alot about southern African people.

Broer you seem to be READING WRONG BOOKS OR BLIND BY NATURE.
CORRECTION TO YOUR "SKEW HISTORY LESSONS". Remember Morpheus24 I correcting you for the 3DR TIME. IN THE HISTORY THREADS YOU AND YOUR IGBO BROTHERS LIED ABOUT ABOUT HAITIANS AND OTHER NEW WORLD BLACKS. It me and Jav and other new blacks to show you were lying. By fowarding ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE RECORDS.

CORRECTION TO YOUR "SKEW HISTORY LESSONS".
The earliest Xhosa connections to the Western Cape

Dominant discourse amongst white South Africans and to some extent amongst Coloured people too, tends to portray that the Xhosa are alien recent arrivals in Cape Town. The facts are very different, showing deep kinship ties between Coloured and Xhosa people. There was no Chinese wall between Khoi and amaXhosa as colonial ignorance of local culture and white nationalist propaganda suggested.
In the 1650s at the time of the arrival of Jan van Riebeeck, the Western Cape Quena (Khoi) honoured the Chobona (or Coboqua, or Khoebaha) King as their paramount chief. AmaXhosa visitors and traders frequented Quena camps and intermarriage was widespread.
The Chobona were one of two wealthy mixed Xhosa-Quena polities based in the Eastern Cape and stretching in influence to the Western Cape which they considered to be their lands and was accepted by Quena chieftainships in the Cape Peninsula. (the other was the Gonaqua) This was acknowledged by Jan van Riebeeck in his writings but something that was never acknowledged by modern white historians until the 1980s when some academics finally broke the mould. Van Riebeeck refers to the Khoebaha as ‘supreme ruler of the whole Hottentot (Khoi) race` and ‘overlord of all the kings and chiefs of the country`. The erroneous notion of the Xhosa being alien to African culture in the Western Cape was an ideological construct which emerged much later to justify white claims to land unpopulated by black people who were then magically separated as a ‘race` from Khoi people.
The hierarchy of Quena tribes and clans in the South Western Cape saw the Gorachoqua and other small splinter groups of Peninsulars being subject to the chieftainship of the Goringhaiqua. Of equal status to the Goringhaiqua were the Guriqua also known as the Chariguriqua, and both were subjects of the Chainoqua regional chieftainship. The Chainoqua were extensively intermarried with the amaXhosa. The amaXhosa regularly frequented Chainoqua camps, traded and shared know-how. The Chainoqua, like the Hessequa, Chamqua, Omaqua Attaqua, Caqua and Houtunqua all were subject to the Hamcumqua (or Inqua) King. The Hamcumqua in the Central Cape also had strong Xhosa relationships. From the time of Xhosa monarch Togu (1590-1620) the Hamcumqua in turn honoured the paramount status of the Chobona in the east. Note: This outline does not cover in detail the Namaquas of the North Western Cape except in showing that the Attaqua and other groups also regarded the Hamcumqua and Chobona as paramount authority. But the Namaqua also had strong relationships with the Tswana-Bricqua.
While official histories of the past project that slave labour was used ‘instead of` Khoi labour, it is reported as widespread that in the new territories of Paarl, Franschhoek, Stellenbosch and on frontier farms, farmers supplemented scarce slave labour with Khoi labour. Adam Tas reported in 1705 the use of teams of Khoi men moving from farm to farm to participate in harvesting. Others report on Khoi having children with slaves on their farms. The neat boxes of separation projected by ideologically doctored history unfortunately still resides in many minds and can be found to be widely projected in tourism materials today.
In the period 1652-1700 much of Dutch settler contact with the amaXhosa, other than shipwreck survivors, was through Quena interlocutors. Their initial contacts and agreements were with fairly petty chiefs quite low down in the ranking order. Only in 1867 the King of the Hamcumqua initiated direct contact by sending an emissary to the Cape government. His brother Gaukou of the Hessequa also opened up communication directly with Governor Simon van der Stel. European direct contact with the amaXhosa thereafter replaces the Khoi-Xhosa relationship as the main means by which amaXhosa arrive in the Peninsula. A series of aggressive incursions of Europeans into Xhosa territory began in 1702 with a group of mercenaries and continued over the next two centuries. AmaXhosa would end up as prisoners and pressed labour in Cape Town until the Apartheid regime introduced pass laws and Coloured-White labour preference policies in the Cape after 1948. Far from the oft repeated refrain that Xhosa people only started coming to the Western Cape from the former Bantustans in recent years and should be regarded as aliens, all the evidence shows that the Xhosa have a historical relationship as old as everybody else in the Western Cape.
The incident of 1702 is when fourty-five white mercenaries, (mainly unmarried men from the lower echelons of white society financed by a wealthy farmer) each accompanied by a Khoi servant left Stellenbosch for deep into the eastern interior. They launched an unofficial raid into Xhosa territory killing many Xhosa and Hamcumqua in their path and seized many cattle. It is likely that some prisoners would have been taken as this was common practice for various practical reasons. While officially frowned upon by the VOC authorities many wealthy farmers benefitted from these raids as it improved their breeding stock. The record of this first act of aggression is recorded in the raiders account of the raid entitled ..

Source:cape-slavery-heritage.iblog.co.za/.../the-earliest-xhosa-connections-to-the-western-cape/ -

Dutch Colonial Period
In 1652 Dutch landed in Cape Town, in 1658 they brought slaves from Bight Of Benin (SW Nigeria), Angola. Most of these ran eastwards to inland and some died. The Dutch later switched their trade to Mozambique,Madagascar,Zanzibar, Because of fears of future attacks as Van Der Stel feared that these Africans who ran away to the eastlands might join existing tribes like Xhosas and might come back to kill them.
They then brought Asians slaves from Malaysia,India,Indonasia etc..who brought Islam to Cape Town.
The British took control of the Cape in 1795 and handed it back to the Dutch in 1803, only to seize it once more in 1806.
Birth of Simonstown
From 1814 the Royal Navy established a permanent naval base at Simon’s Bay and the town began to flourish. People were drawn from all over by the possibility of employment. The large Royal Naval fleet had to be provisioned and this created business opportunities for a relatively large number of persons. Many people from Britain began to settle in Simon’s Town. The Kroomen from West Africa originated in places like Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ivory Coast and Ghana. They joined the Royal Navy on three year contracts, but many married Simon’s Town women and stayed on in the town after their contracts had expired. These people were intergrated into the Xhosas and coloured people of Simonstown.
During the middle and late 1800’s islanders came from St Helena to settle in Simon’s Town. In the early 1900’s another group of islanders arrived from Tristan da Cunha to settle in the town. Amongst other trades, these people were skilled fishermen and whalermen.
Also arriving in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s were the Indian people, who began businesses in the town. Their descendants still own businesses in Simon’s Town today.
Another group to arrive in the late 1880’s were the Xhosa people from the Eastern Cape. They built the railway into Simon’s Town from Kalk Bay, which was opened in 1890. At first they lived alongside the railway track and then on completion of the work, they moved to a kloof close to the town, where they built their homes on terraces on the mountainside. They assisted with the building of the East Dockyard (1901-1910) and later found employment with the Simon’s Town Municipality and in the day to day activities of the expanding Dockyard. These people married existing Xhosa and coloured people of that area and lived in Luyolo location. During the Apartheid era they were removed from Luyolo location to Gugulethu and Nyanga east.

There were also Xhosa people who worked in the construction of V&A waterfront dockyards these people lived in the DISTRICT SIX alongside coloured people,Indians,poor whites. Non whites were moved to Gugulethu,Nyanga,Manenberg,Athlone,Mitchells Plain etc..

THE COLOUREDS OF WESTERN CAPE HAVE STRONG BLODD TIES WITH XHOSAS THAN ANY GROUP IN S.A. FACT.[/b] grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

2 Likes

Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by AwodwaGyanOniwe: 8:17am On Dec 05, 2013
@Morpheus24

DNA samples taken recently show that Xhosas have higher Khoisan DNA sample than the CAPE METRO AREA coloured who are very diversed(Khoisan,Bantu,European,Asian,other ancestry).
Note: The Mozambiquen slaves imported into Cape Town were imported from Southern Mozambique and were mainly Tsongas who are related to Tsongas of SA Limpopo province. These slaves were assimilated into Xhosas and Khoisan overtime, most came as RUN AWAYS. FACT.
grin grin grin grin grin

DNA SAMPLES NOT CLAIMS OOO.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/colouredcontext.jpg
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by paniki(m): 9:36am On Dec 05, 2013
morpheus24:

Apparently the desert doesn't get cold in Australia nor do they ever have cold winter weather in the southern parts of the continent.


Hahahahahaha, you have been shown images detailing average temperatures throughout the globe. Australia is hot desert my friend, similar to Namibia. Your ridiculous hypothesis is that whites settle in places that have weather similar to their origins, the maps show that such similarities only exist in the northern parts of the northern hemisphere. Try other tricks.

I have to spot the next 10 degree celsius weather in West AFrica for you the next time it occurs.

LOL, you'll have to try other tricks. 10 °C is hot for the Brits. They always visit South Africa in July(middle of winter for us) and we see them walking around in shorts and t-shirts while us locals(local whites included) are wearing many layers of warm clothing. In SA it only snows in Sutherland and the Drakensburg mountains. Snow in the major centre like Joburg happens once every decade or more and it make news when it happens because it's so rare.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by paniki(m): 9:42am On Dec 05, 2013
Hahahahaha, Moffie is now saying that the Spanish and Portuguese are not real Europeans. LOL. He is trying to escape the planned attck from South America. Anyway, no problem. I have other examples

But it's strange that people who colonised countries such Angola and Mozambique are not considered European.

1 Like

Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by UyiIredia(m): 11:00pm On Dec 05, 2013
sweetcheecks:
I guess I was becouse I am supposed to swallow your craap calling me I junkie whenyour destitutes are busy selling South Africans drugs then you have the guts of calling SAns junkies.

If your mods were not Xenophobes (espeecially Afemava and Sexkillz ) they would have also deleted this thread. Imagine you asking SAns craap as if you were never colonised by whits. But the whites ran away after realising that they were going to be part of your menu. So were your wild animals.

After all that you have the audesity to ask me to leave this forum when I am typing from my phone in my country not in Nigeria. What do you call that if not extreme Xenophobia.While your Nigerians are running around my country, imaginre if we were in Niheria. You would be chanting SA must go but fault everyone who even dare to critisize Nigerians. You all are hypocrites of the highest order. Now call Afemeva or Sexkillz to ban me afain. Cry babies?

Cool it please. A Christian South African is over-policing a thread on the board I frequent, the Religion board. HumbledByGrace it is and no one screams xenophobia at her.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:18pm On Dec 05, 2013
Out of respect for a fallen Icon.

I will delay my responses for now.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by paniki(m): 11:43pm On Dec 05, 2013
morpheus24: Out of respect for a fallen Icon.

I will delay my responses for now.


Hahahahahahaha. The power of Madiba.

His death just puts the spotlight on South Africa all over again. I can't wait for all the documentaries.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 5:00pm On Dec 06, 2013
DictatorZAR:

ok mr primitive now can you tell what these are.

mind you all these customs are still part of nigeria today.

should i post articles of female mutilations still prevalent in that society today.

dont push it goat

The difference is that your people live like that on daily bases while Nigerians wear that on traditional display activities or events. You see! You can now see what I am trying to educate you about.

Well, let's have some respect for Mandela's pass-away and stop the insults for the time being.

Thank you.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 6:08pm On Dec 06, 2013
Uyi Iredia:

Cool it please. A Christian South African is over-policing a thread on the board I frequent, the Religion board. HumbledByGrace it is and no one screams xenophobia at her.

No, HumbledByGrace is not South African like me, she is from Lesotho and I am from Botswana.

1 Like

Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 6:11pm On Dec 06, 2013
all4naija:

The difference is that your people live like that on daily bases while Nigerians wear that on traditional display activities or events. You see! You can now see what I am trying to educate you about.

Well, let's have some respect for Mandela's pass-away and stop the insults for the time being.

Thank you.

Lmao, are you American? That is the only reason you could believe such. Lol, its funny actually they also have tigers and lions as pets. Lol cheesy
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by CraigB: 7:33pm On Dec 06, 2013
all4naija:

The difference is that your people live like that on daily bases while Nigerians wear that on traditional display activities or events. You see! You can now see what I am trying to educate you about.

Well, let's have some respect for Mandela's pass-away and stop the insults for the time being.

Thank you.

Is that so?

Pray tell, which "traditional display activity" is the below?

Simple question. No one's been insulted.

Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by paniki(m): 9:35pm On Dec 06, 2013
all4naija what do you think about Mandela?
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 10:38pm On Dec 06, 2013
paniki: all4naija what do you think about Mandela?

I think Mandela aka MADIBA(I like that word, although, I don't know the meaning) is a South African black Jesus, who helped to liberate the people from the shackles of Apartheid. He's also a revered figure around the world. I think he is a God who needs to be worshiped in one form or the other after his death - for his humilitity, understanding of peaceful human coexistence and more.

Thank you.

P.S: I am not on crack,dude!
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by CraigB: 11:21pm On Dec 06, 2013
all4naija:

I think Mandela aka MADIBA(I like that word, although, I don't know the meaning) is a South African black Jesus, who helped to liberate the people from the shackles of Apartheid. It's also a revered figure around the world. I think he is a God who needs to be worshiped in one form or the other after his death - for his humilitity, understanding of peaceful human coexistence and more.

Thank you.

P.S: I am not on crack,dude!

Is Mandela not (to quote you) "primitive"?

1 Like

Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by UyiIredia(m): 10:38am On Dec 08, 2013
BluIvy:

No, HumbledByGrace is not South African like me, she is from Lesotho and I am from Botswana.

Is this sweet cheeks other profile ?
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 5:30pm On Dec 08, 2013
South Africa without white people is equaled to Somalia in all ramification while looking at the attitudes of the black people in that society. From their xenophobic inclinations to their enthusiasm for crimes paint a gloomy images of the very lives we see in Somalis.


Thank you.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 5:35pm On Dec 08, 2013
CraigB:
Is Mandela not (to quote you) "primitive"?

Lol... You are full of excuses. I don't think that Nelson Mandela is primitive because he's not a Zulu man who exposes his peanuts all in the name of tradition. Please, you can't come here to play on sophistry and think you are making sense. Your failure has been spotted,dude! Bwahaha...

Thank you.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 5:41pm On Dec 08, 2013
CraigB:

Is that so?

Pray tell, which "traditional display activity" is the below?

Simple question. No one's been insulted.

That is one in millions! Unlike SA where 90% of the villagers are living that way. Bwahaha...

Thank you, Zulu master!
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by CraigB: 1:55am On Dec 09, 2013
all4naija:

That is one in millions! Unlike SA where 90% of the villagers are living that way. Bwahaha...

Thank you, Zulu master!

But he's wearing animal skin. Confused much?

And these Naai-gerian ladies...

...Are they not primitive?

Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by paniki(m): 4:24pm On Dec 09, 2013
all4naija don't you want to attend the funeral in Qunu on Sunday?
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 4:24pm On Dec 09, 2013
:roy4:

grin
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 5:12pm On Dec 09, 2013
paniki: all4naija don't you want to attend the funeral in Qunu on Sunday?

I would love to, but not in South Africa of all place. Indeed, I'd like to know something about you. Are you alright?

Thank you.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 5:22pm On Dec 09, 2013
CraigB:

But he's wearing animal skin. Confused much?

And these Naai-gerian ladies...

...Are they not primitive?



That looks like a publicity than the way they live in that village by merely looking at the one on cap and the others who cover up their pubic parts with clothes. The white man among them most be a researcher probably working for National Geographic Society or something. Those are just 0.01 * 10 ^ 100 of the total population of Nigeria. You have no argument or whatsoever there. When we know that Zulus and Xhosa show their peanuts and their bosoms in public places all in the name of tradition. That's savagery to me. That is a barbaric display of failure to be civilized and that I don't like about SA. A nation that claims to be the most developed in Africa. Another thing, I don't like the images of those wearing leaves at all. It is preposterous to see people living like that and still exist in a place like Nigeria in this modern time. I am having a headache over this images though. Something got to be done quickly to help these people out of their ignorance and backward life! Huh! Ptui!

Thank you.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 9:29pm On Dec 09, 2013
all4naija:

That looks like a publicity than the way they live in that village by merely looking at the one on cap and the others who cover up their pubic parts with clothes. The white man among them most be a researcher probably working for National Geographic Society or something. Those are just 0.01 * 10 ^ 100 of the total population of Nigeria. You have no argument or whatsoever there. When we know that Zulus and Xhosa show the peanuts and bosoms in public places all in the name of tradition. That's savagery to me. That is a barbaric display of failure to civilized and that I don't like about SA. A nation that claims to be the most developed in Africa. Another thing, I don't like the images of those wearing leaves at all. It is preposterous to see people living like that and still exist in a place like Nigeria in this modern time. I am having a headache over this images though. Something got to be done quickly to help these people out of their ignorance and backward life! Huh! Ptui!

Thank you.

You are truly deluded dull nut skull on the edge of mental brake down.

I will respond in kind to this foolish rants, for now I will allow the last breath of a dying Garri goat time for some Aso Rock vudu consultation.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 12:12am On Dec 10, 2013
DictatorZAR:

You are truly deluded dull nut skull on the edge of mental brake down.

I will respond in kind to this foolish rants, for now I will allow the last breath of a dying Garri goat time for some Aso Rock vudu consultation.

I can see from this your comment that you are Zulu person still living in the raffia-palm or sticks made house in your village in the brown desert of Kwazulu-Natal. How you manage to get connected to the internet is a big challenge to me. However, the MNT mobile phone has done a lot to get you acquainted with mobile-internet. I hope this will come with the advantage of providing an avenue for civility from your primitive life. Why can't you argue like a civilized person for once instead of calling me names? I would be interested to have a civilized debate with you any day.

Thank you.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 1:23am On Dec 10, 2013
A formidable portray of Nelson Mandela painted by a British artist was bought by a white South African lawyer in New York recently. Where will SA be without white people? It will be as Somalia. No appreciation of artistic works, no respect for icons like Mandela and no sense of civility.

Thank you.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 3:00am On Dec 10, 2013
"Do not compare yourself to others. If you
do so, you are insulting yourself."- Nelson
Mandela

It's a pity that this words of wisdom have fallen on deaf naai-gerian ears.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 3:27am On Dec 10, 2013
Tumisang: "Do not compare yourself to others. If you
do so, you are insulting yourself."- Nelson
Mandela

It's a pity that this words of wisdom have fallen on deaf naai-gerian ears.
I demand an explanation for that.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by CraigB: 4:16am On Dec 10, 2013
The jealous hearts of Naai-geria are still suffering, I see.
Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by Nobody: 12:11am On Dec 11, 2013
CraigB: The jealous hearts of Naai-geria are still suffering, I see.

There is nothing about jealousy in this argument. It is plainly South Africans thing to quickly accuse Nigerians of being jealous for stating the obvious about their society. I don't see anything revealing in what you accused Nigerian of in this very thread.

Thank you.

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