Vote to answer the question or learn from others. For me, in the light of the scriptures, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John which are the synoptic gospels are NOT New Testament. They are Old Testament.

Gosh, they're new. i get your point though

Image123: Gosh, they're new. i get your point though

How are they new? If you get my point though, then treat my point. Let's give people revelation not religion. I can pull many scriptures to tell you it is Old Testament apart from the Hebrews verses used to prove they are Old Testament. You've to dig deep brother,lol. You know you don't get water on the surface. Rivers of living waters don't come to flow by scratching the surface, it flows by opening the source and the "container" being turned up side down.

Are you there? If yes, hit the reply button.

new ? lol

buzugee: new ? lol

Theologian buzugee, prove it sir. No head knowledge when you talk to Goshen. You know I spin 360 degrees in the word of God,lol.

Are you there? If Yes, hit the reply button.

goshen360:

Theologian buzugee, prove it sir. No head knowledge when you talk to Goshen. You know I spin 360 degrees in the word of God,lol.

Are you there? If Yes, hit the reply button.

Hmmmm you know Chief i cant quite prove it. i m basing this just off the fact that they are the starting books in the new testament am i missing something ?

^^^
YES! You are missing something brother.

There are two dimensions of/to the word of God God. Listen to what Paul says in 2 Cor. 3:6 KJV. You can read other translations to get it clearer,

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Get out of the letter dimension and delve into the Spirit dimension. Listen to this again and link to the above scriptures.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 2 Cor. 2:10 KJV

Notice it is the Spirit that searches the deep things of God, NOT the Letters.

Essentially old testament, for the reason below:

Hebrews 9:

15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

buzugee: Hmmmm you know Chief i cant quite prove it. [s]i m basing this just off the fact that they are the starting books in the new testament[/s] am i missing something ?

They are rather the ENDING books of the OLD Testament sir. I thought you should know this already as a theologian,lol

5solas:

Essentially old testament, for the reason below:

Hebrews 9:

15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Great Point! I want us to prove it more. Can You?

I am not too great on the subliminal. i am more of a ' i see and i say ' kinda guy. yall doing the subliminal all up in here . i shall watch yall hash this out. cant contribute though. i aint into subliminal interpretations. are you aware that there is a book between the old and new testament called the apocrypha ?

^^^
You need to define the Old and New first. Then you can know if such book exist in between the Old and New. There are many books written but they are NOT Inspired by the Holy Spirit. My brother, STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD. Let me show you the difference by adjective of the word of God. God doesn't just speak, You need to pay attention to details and VITAL information. Look at this:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim 3:16 KJV

tie these two scriptures together

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21 KJV

When you tie these two scriptures together, there is a writing or speaking by the will of MAN and there is a writing or speaking by the WILL of God which is inspired by the Holy Ghost. The bible we have is the will of God, forget about such books as books Enoch and the rest of them. They exist but written by the will of Man.

I hope this helps. Back to our topic, hit the reply button,lol

buzugee: I am not too great on the subliminal. i am more of a ' i see and i say ' kinda guy. yall doing the subliminal all up in here . i shall watch yall hash this out. cant contribute though. i aint into subliminal interpretations. are you aware that there is a book between the old and new testament called the apocrypha ?

you are just talking junks.

buzugee: I am not too great on the subliminal. i am more of a ' i see and i say ' kinda guy. yall doing the subliminal all up in here . i shall watch yall hash this out. cant contribute though. i aint into subliminal interpretations. are you aware that there is a book between the old and new testament called the apocrypha ?

I don't understand that. We are to interpret by PRAYER, DIGGING DEEPER AND BY THE SAME HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. This is what gives you revelation of the word (By the Spirit) not by Letters.

In stating my submission, I prefer to use the term 'covenant' instead of testament. In my opinion whilst events recorded in matthew, mark luke and John occurred during the period of the old covenant, this period established the foundation of the new covenant.

diluminati:


you are just talking junks.

goshen360:

I don't understand that. We are to interpret by PRAYER, DIGGING DEEPER AND BY THE SAME HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. This is what gives you revelation of the word (By the Spirit) not by Letters.

Bruh, the point here is i just dont see the relevancy of whether matthew mark luke and john is old or new testament. i mean, the council who compiled the scriptures saw fit to put them in the new testament but somehow you feel it should be part of the old testament ?. like i am so like totally stumped dude (valley girl accent)

goshen360: ^^^
You need to define the Old and New first. Then you can know if such book exist in between the Old and New. There are many books written but they are NOT Inspired by the Holy Spirit. My brother, STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD. Let me show you the difference by adjective of the word of God. God doesn't just speak, You need to pay attention to details and VITAL information. Look at this:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim 3:16 KJV

tie these two scriptures together

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21 KJV

When you tie these two scriptures together, there is a writing or speaking by the will of MAN and there is a writing or speaking by the WILL of God which is inspired by the Holy Ghost. The bible we have is the will of God, forget about such books as books Enoch and the rest of them. They exist but written by the will of Man.

I hope this helps. Back to our topic, hit the reply button,lol

hmmm and who determines which book is written by the will of God and which one is written by the will of man ? you do know that the apocrypha was included in the bible until about 100 years ago when it was taken out by the bible destruction group. and just for your edification, the book of esdras in the apocrypha is an extension of the book of nehemiah and ezra in the bible. same story but more elaborate, and may i add one of the most poignant book in the scriptures. details ezras return from the babylonian capture and how they rebuilt the temple and all the visions he had from God. wisdom of solomon is an extension of ecclesiastes and the maccabees is the historical account of the invasion and desecration of the israelites by the greeks. first book of maccabees tells you how caucasians tookover the world after alexander the greek conquered everyone and it went on to say, when he died his people put crowns on their heads and evils has multiplied in the world ever since (INCLUDING THE SAVAGE > ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES). YOU DONT THINK THERE WAS AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE TO HAVING THE APOCRYPHA REMOVED FROM THE BIBLE ?

goshen360:

How are they new? If you get my point though, then treat my point. Let's give people revelation not religion. I can pull many scriptures to tell you it is Old Testament apart from the Hebrews verses used to prove they are Old Testament. You've to dig deep brother,lol. You know you don't get water on the surface. Rivers of living waters don't come to flow by scratching the surface, it flows by opening the source and the "container" being turned up side down.

Are you there? If yes, hit the reply button.

One, is that they are placed in the new testament, not in the old testament by people who know more than us.
Two, is that they were written during the new testament dispensation, making them new testament books.
Three, is that you and other proponents of the gospels are OT would agree that not all the book is OT from your definition of OT. I mean if your definition is that NT begins after the cross, some verses and chapters of Matthew, Mark ,Luke and John are after the cross.
Four, is that most are not even agreed on the time the NT began. Is it at Calvary, after Christ's death, after His ressurection, after His ascension? When?
i will come to other reasons later but let me deal with this below

Hebrews 9:

15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
5solas comes in with the men are dead reason, the question is IS JESUS DEAD OR ALIVE?

@ Image123,

I will not take time to delve into your points one after the other. But what I will say is that, they are old testament. You know I don't just talk. The only person that made the best of it and probably killed this thread is PastorKun. The reason being the fact that, If you cultivate the habit of letting scripture explain scriptures, you will be the best student of the word of God.

Come back to the answer. The reason why the books are placed in the New testament is the fact that, Jesus is the Mediator of the New testament.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Heb 9:15 KJV

To prove to the world that Christ is come for the new testament he came to establish, He cannot come under same new testament, he had to come under an Old testament or covenant if you choose.

secondly, Those books are placed in the new because it has to show us about the testator and the process of enforcing the new after. However, they are not biographies of Jesus by Synoptic.

If you take the whole bible in context, you will see that they are Old testament but for the above reasons that introduces us to our testator, it was placed in the new. I hope I find more words to explain should we need to explain more.

Okay goshen,
Is Matthew 28 new testament or old testament?

New testament started in Acts 2. Hence Matthew 28 is Old in Context.

goshen360: New testament started in Acts 2. Hence Matthew 28 is Old in Context.

Whao, new testament starts in Acts 2? That's funny, really. On the day of Pentecost? You're kidding, right? Any scripture to support this?
And BTW, what's the significance/relevance/importance of the gospels been placed as OT? Many questions already, make i hit reply button.

@ image123,

I will show or give you something that will blow your mind and Christian study/ life forever. I will do that when I wake up. You will forever thank me. What I teach is a product of my study, digging deeper into the word and by revelation. This is what puts you on top of normal Christians. I hv chosen this path because there are too much falsehoods in today's church.

I will give you something that will blow your mind. Even in chronological order, Matthew is NOT the first book of the supposed NT. It's okay the way it is just for easy accessibility but in context, they are part of OT that gives us the synoptic account of the testator to the NT.

God willing, when I wake up. Stay blessed and by the way, am not seeing you in the bible study session. Why? Baptism topic ends this Sunday, another topic begins on Monday. Thanks

I wanted verse or chapter studies na.

@ Image123 and Everyone,

I have shown you before and will show you again.

The arrangement of the bible is okay as it is but when you do deeper studies and you read the bible as a whole in context, you will discover what I shared with you in the bible quiz thread:

The patriachal or father Age: Gen to Exodus 19.
The Jewish or Israel Age: Ex 20 to John's Gospel/Acts 1
The Christian or NT age: Acts 2 to Christ coming.

It is okay with the arrangement just as you said probably the writers knows something we dont know yet for we know in part and we prophesy in part 1 Cor 13:9. You will also agree that God cannot establish any covenant with the Israelites when they are still in Egypy so He had to first bring them out. That is why in context of bible study, that age is called the father age cos God speaks to people through the fathers/Patriach then. Okay. so it continued to Christ. You also agree christ lived under the law and he obey the law but break some laws. Those laws Christ broke are laws that the Pharisees had made to be burden on God's people such as sabbath, washing hand before eating, fasting etc. As you know, the law was not given to be a burden but to be a school master training the Israelites the way of obedience. Well, I may also have to blow your mind telling you that, Israel as a nation and geo-political location are no longer God's chosen people. They used to be but no more. they are just like the believers all over the world who are the chosen people since Israel rejected Christ as the Messiah. The believers as church of the body of Christ are God's chosen people now, When God was working through Israel, it is the church, believers in Jesus that God had in mind. Israel's rejection of Christ worked together for God's plan. Romans chapter 9 through chapter 11. Also see, 1 Peter 2:9 and who were the people Peter was writing to in 1 Peter 2:9, go to 1 Peter 1:1-5. Israel will only fit into God's people again if individual or the nation as Christ as Lord, Saviour and Messiah.

What I promised to give you are below, If you have money, you can get the study aids that have changed my study recently or visit www.christianbook.com for preview the materials:

Strong's Exhaustive concordance of the Bible (Updated edition) by James Strong.

Word Study Series:
The Complete Word Study Dictionary (NT) for Deeper understanding of the word by Spiros Zodhiates
The Complete Word Study Dictionary (OT) for deeper understanding of the word by Warren Baker and Eugene Carpenter.

Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of OT and NT keyed to Strong's Concordance (optional,the 2 word series are better than Vine)

Holman illustrated bible dictionary, revised and expanded.

The Complete WordStudy New Testament with Parallel Greek Text By Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D.

NKJV Chronological Study Bible (OT and NT Chronological order of the bible)

NKJV Study Bible - The complete Resource for accuracy, beauty and clarity

ESV MacArthur Study Bible (Optinal)

You can check out the preview of these materials at www.christianbook.com and type each of these materials. Under the picture of each material, you will see "Additional Views", click on it and see few pages of the inside. They are helpful if you can afford to buy them in Nigeria.

Hope to hear from you though.

@goshen
i understand your point like i said earlier. But you have to not that your point is not set in stone. Other 'deeper studies' would produce varying timelines and arrangements of the Bible. Some will give you seven, some even twelve. It's called 'dispensationalism' ithink. None is right than the other IMHO. They are just means to improve Bible study, like the division into chapters, verses, paragraphs, headers.
Not to waste much time, going to the core of the OP, Are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John old testament or new. What are the criteria for saying they are old or new?
If we say they were old testament scriptures, questions , pertinent questions, must arise. Questions that include but not limited to "On whose authority do we say they are old testament?" Is it on scriptural authority? NO.
"When were they written, in what era or dispensation?" They were written during the New Testament dispensation.
- VERY IMPORTANTLY, "What are the implications that these books are Old testament?" Are they less relevant than Acts to Revelation? Are the commands, instructions and warnings to be taken less serious and old-fashioned?
-Not to drawww issues, MOST IMPORTANTLY, "What does the scripture have to say about the time of these gospels?" i'll quote two scriptures that are worthy of your note/consideration.
Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1Corinth 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
Many say the testament(new) was effected at calvary. some say when Christ's blood was shed, some like 5solas say when Christ died, some say 3days after i.e resurrection,some like you GOSH say 50days after i.e pentecost. But here we see JESUS saying "THIS IS THE NEW TESTAMENT". Do we postpone it for Him on the basis of our theology or take Him at His Word? So when did the new testament commence? At the supper, or at calvary or, at Christ;s death, or at Pentecost? If we take only Luke 22v20. Is ti then that Luke chaptr one to chapter 22v19 are OT and verse 20 to the end are NT? THAT's ONE.
TWO, we mostly agree that the OT is the law and the prophets. The old testament books are referred to as the aw and the prophets. Now, consider this statement from JESUS again.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
In lay general understanding, Jesus is here saying that the OT stops at John the baptist. On the basis of this, the gospels pass as new testament. John is just a peripheral intro in all the gospels. The New covenant is already in effect in the eyes of Jesus. That's why He could say THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AMONG YOU.

goshen360: @ Image123 and Everyone,

Well, I may also have to blow your mind telling you that,

Blow my mind? God forbid! Folks should keep away from anything that seeks to blow their minds away!

"BELOVED, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

OLAADEGBU:

Blow my mind? God forbid! Folks should keep away from anything that seeks to blow their minds away!

"BELOVED, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

And what is that supposed to mean? I know you and I don't agree based on some of your false teachings. You rather didn't contribute to the thread but come up with negative contribution. When I said, blow your mind, do you know what is on my mind?

goshen360:

And what is that supposed to mean? I know you and I don't agree based on some of your false teachings. You rather didn't contribute to the thread but come up with negative contribution. When I said, blow your mind, do you know what is on my mind?

Anything on your mind that will blow my mind is certainly not welcomed.

@ Image123,

I thank God for people like you that enable deeper study of the word. God bless you. We may disagree on some issues based on our different understanding. Permit me to share more light on the various scriptures you have raise and you see that scriptures does not contradict itself, IF ONLY WE STUDY DEEPER.

Likewise He also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup [is] the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. Luke 22: 20 nkjv.

Firstly, I will like to add this to your understanding of words when studying the scriptures. I do not discredit anyone for their understand but we are all learning and we need to learn very well, esp when it comes to the word of God.

I have used colour to show you what I want to talk about. Notice sir, Jesus said, "IN MY BLOOD". The testament is still in His blood as at when he spoke these words. It has to be shed to take to effect or activate the testament which goes down to what Hebrew writer said in Heb 9:16-17 nkjv,

For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

You have being a good friend in studying the word of God with me on this forum. One thing I have learnt from my bible school is that, YOU CANNOT TAKE ONE VERSE OF THE BIBLE AND SIT ON IT. You need to check the lenght, breath and depth of every scriptures. Now you can see I have upgraded on testament. That is why I suggested those materials if you can afford it, you will surely thank me for life. Long story short, Jesus had to shed that blood to effect the testament and the verse you quoted said, "In" my blood.

You also said, on whose authority do we say the books are Old testament. Certainly, on the authority of same scriptures. I have just shown you that. One thing you also need to also know is, When Jesus was on earth and the testament was in His blood, All what he did was writing the "will" or "testament" for us and as you know, it will only take effect after His death, Resurrection and ascension. If people say, it is after His death, they are right to their own understand, if some say it is after Resurrection, they are right to their understanding, and if people like me say it is after ascension, we are right based on our understanding. The fact and truth guiding us IS THE THAT IT TAKES EFFECT "AFTER".

"The law and the prophets [were] until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16 nkjv.

You are right that when you said, "we mostly agree that the OT is the law and the prophets. The old testament books are referred to as the aw and the prophets. In lay general understanding, Jesus is here saying that the OT stops at John the baptist. On the basis of this, the gospels pass as new testament. John is just a peripheral intro in all the gospels. The New covenant is already in effect in the eyes of Jesus. That's why He could say THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AMONG YOU"

A few correction here and we can look at it together also. The OT didn't stop at that time. There is introduction to new dispensation, the dispensation of the gospel. Off course, the gospel begins with REPENTANCE and that is what John began to preach. It is different to when the testament took effect. As to the Kingdom of God is among you, I believe he (Jesus) is the one that brought the Kingdom of God among them but they didn't know it neither did they see or Him (Jesus) who had brought the Kingdom of God to them. I will write and article soon on the fact that Israel didn't accept him and the Kingdom of God was taken away from them to "NATION" that bears fruit of the kingdom and accept Christ.

I don't know if this is clear enough to make more understanding. If not, kindly raise more question sir. Thanks

OLAADEGBU:

Anything on your mind that will blow my mind is certainly not welcomed.

Brother, you are a Christian and stop acting like you are the Alpha and Omega in the word of God for we know in part and prophesy in part 1 Cor 13:9.

Again, "I will blow your mind" is not the word of God, It's my own word. People say things that they don't mean it as negative. If you have issues with my words, kindly ask for explanation and not jump to conclusion.Ok.

Also, of all our discussion, you didn't say anything to the thread only for you to pick on just that fact that I said, "I will blow your mind". You r making big issues out of it.