zangality: The most beautiful things i̶̲̥̅̊n̶̲̥̅̊ this world are unseen...

How do you know they are beautiful when they are unseen?

dalaman: There seems to be many atheist and agnostic present here these days. The question is simple, I want the atheist and agnostics to state their reasons for not believing in God/Religion.

I think i don't trust him.....
I've trusted lots oftimes.....nd twas allfor nuffin... So maybe i was havin trust in sumtin dah never exists... Hu knows??

Even if dere's a hell... I'm willing to be dere...
Dan sing halleluya to sum1 i don't trust...

nanotee: Seems the atheist are leading in dis debate. So does God exist? My answer is that no one knows for certain. One reason I think people associate with religion is the explanation of so many mysteries in their world. In yoruba land for instance, there are cases of witch crafts, river goddesses, re-incarnation, etc which are not explainable without reference to the super-natural. I don't think science would one day give an explanation to these super-natural mysteries. This is an aspect that so many atheists tend to over-look. Another issue raised is that the concept of God doesn't make so much sense, lacks appeal to the intellect. But because we cannot comprehend this God or understand in details why he seems powerless over many ills that plague man-kind is not enough to conclude on his non-existence. Not knowing the cure for AIDS doesn't mean it's in-existent.
Finally, if there's a God then which? I think every person should decide. While I have not seen God physically, my experiences with him, which has gone beyond mere chance or hear-say has sealed my choice of faith. I choose to belief. Hoping that one day I would get more answers to the questions I have.

taste and see that the Lord is good.

You still haven't understood how your body system operates. If excess Dopamine is secreted in your brain during your reflexes and use that to conclude spirituality or the existence of god is your inability to understand something about your system and your environment(nature). I compel you to explain the rational behind magic, if they are not tricks(though are parts of the physical nature). You are alluding to some false explanations for what you don't understand and quickly put it on some idea of god. This is where Theists always fall short of their explanations of god.

Mystery doesn't mean it is spiritual just that it has not be understood. You are making god looks mysterious because of the fact it doesn't exist through some ideas of you not understanding something about nature. It would be more rewarding to try to engage it continuously until you have a factual explanation than concluding from your limited perceptions. We have seen a lot more things be debunked of errors through ages. So, it takes time, and haven't find anything to ascertain some facts should not be equated to god. Nature is encompassing and imperfect. Nature is to me more powerful than your make-up god as an explanation for something yet to be explained.

There is no god, that is a fact, because people created it out of their minds. Out of lack of understanding of the nature's imperfection. I doubt if eternity is to exist for anything including humans this idea of god would be a thing of the past for these Theists. It is proven fact that there is nothing that can exist for eternity including the alluded god of Theists. For there is nothing without beginning excepting infinity and eternity which don't exist only in terms and people consciousness. The ability to reason is humans and have been used to fathom many things in nature. Thinking outside of nature only leave us creating ideas which don't exist such as god.

Ezeufi: If white people truely think that christianity is a way to heaven, then they would never allow black people to become christians. The fact that white people want every blackman to become a christian, that is enough reason for me to keep away from christianity.

excellent one and something to deeply reflect upon. Another one to reflect upon is why western countries do not teach bilbe knowledge in their public schools. The reason is quite simple. They cannot risk the damage that such toxic material could do their young who are their future. The have been there and they have done all that in previous eras. We should learn from them.

ayox2003: I'm a christian. I can back this up with my personal experience and bible verses but come-to-think-of-it, if GOD doesnt exist, there wouldnt have been a name called GOD.
Do you believe in ILLUSIONS? That there is something called ILLUSION. Illusions exist, right? But GOD doesnt. **giggles**
Evidences are numerous!
The world has lost GOD in the wonders of the world- A.W Tozer.

Wow. This is a new one for me. " I believe in god because the name god exists." and "Ilusions exist therefore god exists".
Na wa.

SNCOQ3:

Wrong. Jesus Christ has been proven to be a historical personage. Please do your research.




'Jesus' is a westernized form of the hebrew Joshua, Yeshua, Jehoshua, Hoshea. It means: The Lord is my Salvation.

Pls kindly point me tot the reference material where jesus has been proven to be a historical figure.

Kay 17:

Supernatural can't exist, its impossible. Its like drawing water from an empty barrel.

I agree. what may seem supernatural are just ideas and natural laws that are yet to be fully understood. The new area of hyper-dimensional physics will give purely ration scientific explanations to things and phenomena that have been hitherto rellegated to the reamls of the supernatural.

Kay 17:

Supernatural can't exist, its impossible. Its like drawing water from an empty barrel.

I agree. what may seem supernatural are just ideas and natural laws that are yet to be fully understood. The new area of hyper-dimensional physics will give purely ration scientific explanations to things and phenomena that have been hitherto rellegated to the reamls of the supernatural.

Kay 17:

Supernatural can't exist, its impossible. Its like drawing water from an empty barrel.

I agree. what may seem supernatural are just ideas and natural laws that are yet to be fully understood. The new area of hyper-dimensional physics will give purely ration scientific explanations to things and phenomena that have been hitherto rellegated to the reamls of the supernatural.

.

My submission still remains that the same way I cannot prove God absolutely, It cannot be proven conclusively that God doesn't exist. About some new super-physics coming to explain witch-craft, miracles and divinations, I seriously doubt if science as we know it today would in the near future put up a set of equations to explain these phenomena. Let me just say there's a one in a billion chance of this happening. Science is yet to discover the cure for many ailments, not propounded a well-defined theory for the origins of the universe and human-kind. It's always been conjectures. I find it very absurd to belief that science can explain how a person dies a few seconds after some incantations are made on his picture. Would that be some sort of yet to be discovered force?

plaetton:
I agree. what may seem supernatural are just ideas and natural laws that are yet to be fully understood. The new area of hyper-dimensional physics will give purely ration scientific explanations to things and phenomena that have been hitherto rellegated to the reamls of the supernatural.

Exactly my view.

nanotee: My submission still remains that the same way I cannot prove God absolutely, It cannot be proven conclusively that God doesn't exist. About some new super-physics coming to explain witch-craft, miracles and divinations, I seriously doubt if science as we know it today would in the near future put up a set of equations to explain these phenomena. Let me just say there's a one in a billion chance of this happening. Science is yet to discover the cure for many ailments, not propounded a well-defined theory for the origins of the universe and human-kind. It's always been conjectures. I find it very absurd to belief that science can explain how a person dies a few seconds after some incantations are made on his picture. Would that be some sort of yet to be discovered force?

So you worship your god out of ignorance.

some will rather die foolish than admit that religion is a huge hoax.
FYI christianity was one hitlers tools.read up people.meanwhile,i hear that naija christian leaders are seeking permission for northern christians to bear arms...awesome!

a lot of atheist seem so sure there is no God. I think they are making the same mistake the religious are making.Truth is, no viewpoint has been proved to anyones satisfaction.

obelisk: some will rather die foolish than admit that religion is a huge hoax.
FYI christianity was one hitlers tools.read up people.meanwhile,i hear that naija christian leaders are seeking permission for northern christians to bear arms...awesome! [img]https://www.nairaland.com/download/670980[/img]

Isn't your image illustration as dumb as what you are trying to pass across? Atheists believe in nature(Mom as in your illustration) why you Theists believe in guessing(probably unseen entity as Mom). Whereas, Mom in your illustration is concrete and real unlike Theists'.

Kay 17:

Since human sin is an imperfection, why is there imperfection in the first place?

Hi Kay 17, Sorry for the delay to respond to your question. I have a very busy life outside of NL.

* Firstly, sin itself is not the imperfection in this context but that which renders a perfect being imperfect just like a perfect bowl of egusi soup could decay to an imperfect bowl of soup when exposed to germs. ( I objectified sin for the sake of clarity).

* So did God create this sin? The answer is no. Sin is not an object but the breaking of God's law. The Law is a reflection of the character of God.

* The beautiful gift of freewill from God created the possibility to sin. Or do you want to blame God for giving you the power to choose?

You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you(Lucifer). Ezekiel 28:15.

Sin originated in the heart of Lucifer, as indicated by this passage. But did God therefore "create sin" because He created Lucifer? God DID NOT create sin. But He did create his creatures with the freedom of choice. God could never be content with mere robots. Free will means the power to choose for or against something. Lucifer had the choice to remain loyal to God, or to rebel against Him. He was created with no taint of maliciousness. His rebellion was not the fault of God, but the result of his own free choice.

big_sean: @SNCOQ3,
Your findings are very revealing (to an elementary school kid, that is.)
My problem with your reasoning (like with every other christian reasoning) is that it always comes back to bite u guys back in the a$$.

Are you sure of the bolded?.

big_sean:
Ok you post a plethora of christian scientists to prove, what? that Christianity is the right religion cos great fathers of the science world were born into an environment that was already rigged.

Check out the top of my first post on "Christian scientist and thinkers" on this thread. My objective is clear.

big_sean:
Ever wondered where the word Algebra [/b]or [b]Algorithm came from? It kind of sounds Arabic [/b]right? Guess what? Its Arabic!
But lets challenge your mind a lil my dear friend, How about the numbers u use? Yeap! thats right, its actually called [b]arabic numerals (although, to be historically correct, it is actually "arabic & hindu" numerals). Also, 2/3 of the stars in the universe have arabic names (how come?. . . maybe cos they discovered it? Correct!). I'm not going to inundate this thread with arabic and hindu scholars of old just for the fun of it.

Please do; It will further buttress the point that not only Christians but Arab and Hindu theists were not against science but actually contributed to the development of science more than atheist would like to admit.

big_sean:
My point is, using your reasoning u kept choking down our throats with in all your previous posts: Hindu, Islam (and any other religion on the face of the earth) , is a justified religion/faith. And that is not possible, all can not be right.

Actually, you missed the objective of my earlier post so using it as a basis for your argument renders it useless. Besides, multiple belief systems with contrary views does not in any way negate the existence of God.

It might also interest you to know that Atheism is faith based. A belief that science will one day provide the answers is an expression of faith. It is called SCIENTISM.

big_sean:
Science, is a progressive subject (unlike religion, it doesn't claim to know all, ever searching for answers). It is ever inquistive and due to that tot process, inventions, great ideas are born and myths are shattered.

The truth of God's word as revealed to man is sufficient; Man's understanding of this truth is progressive. The idea of Christianity vs Science is nonsensical. Real science does not contradict the bible, "scientific conjectures" , wrong hypothesis and pseodo-scientists like Steven Dawkins who is a living contradiction does.

big_sean:
However, religion or faith based worship hinders such development, cos it labels some questions as "forbidden" and anything logic cant explain, it attributes it to god. Don't people feel stupid when some things that where attributed to gods in the old (i.e tides, and basically everything else) can be explained precisely to the last minute information thanks to science?

The bolded is so wrong. Please read my posts "Christian Scientist and thinkers" on this thread again. It tears your bolded statement to shreds. Besides, you just contradicted your earlier statement which admitted implicitly, that theism is not an hindrance to development on the contrary, theist actually laid the foundation of its advancement.

Cool,mr snwhatever, but,u basicallly just pulled a whole religion out of your @ss. Faith in science is a justified reasonable faith, just like faith an alligator is not in your bathtub. Faith in your God is unreasonable and contrived.

with secularism sweeping across the globe,its just a matter of time before a major population of the world starts seeing religion for what its truly is, 'fraud'.science and religion can never be compatible.thats why scientists all around the world don't allow the so called 'intelligent design' scientists to publish on their journal. if there is one good example as to drive home why religion is socially fraught with delusions and outright intention to manipulate,that example is Nigeria.

SNCOQ3:

Hi Kay 17, Sorry for the delay to respond to your question. I have a very busy life outside of NL.

* Firstly, sin itself is not the imperfection in this context but that which renders a perfect being imperfect just like a perfect bowl of egusi soup could decay to an imperfect bowl of soup when exposed to germs. ( I objectified sin for the sake of clarity).

* So did God create this sin? The answer is no. Sin is not an object but the breaking of God's law. The Law is a reflection of the character of God.

* The beautiful gift of freewill from God created the possibility to sin. Or do you want to blame God for giving you the power to choose?

You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you(Lucifer). Ezekiel 28:15.

Sin originated in the heart of Lucifer, as indicated by this passage. But did God therefore "create sin" because He created Lucifer? God DID NOT create sin. But He did create his creatures with the freedom of choice. God could never be content with mere robots. Free will means the power to choose for or against something. Lucifer had the choice to remain loyal to God, or to rebel against Him. He was created with no taint of maliciousness. His rebellion was not the fault of God, but the result of his own free choice.

Thanks for your efforts. We do understand Sin as an act of disobedience to God's commands and by God's standards is bad. Consequently, Sin is a deliberate positive act which is a person who is able to and capable of. That is; its a potential of such a person. Since Sins are bad, they are imperfect in nature.

Being that God is beyond evil and sin as a result of his perfection. Since the Source of All is perfect and beyond evil, why do his creation lack that perfection??

SNCOQ3:

Are you sure of the bolded?.



Check out the top of my first post on "Christian scientist and thinkers" on this thread. My objective is clear.



Please do; It will further buttress the point that not only Christians but Arab and Hindu theists were not against science but actually contributed to the development of science more than atheist would like to admit.



Actually, you missed the objective of my earlier post so using it as a basis for your argument renders it useless. Besides, multiple belief systems with contrary views does not in any way negate the existence of God.

It might also interest you to know that Atheism is faith based. A belief that science will one day provide the answers is an expression of faith. It is called SCIENTISM.



The truth of God's word as revealed to man is sufficient; Man's understanding of this truth is progressive. The idea of Christianity vs Science is nonsensical. Real science does not contradict the bible, "scientific conjectures" , wrong hypothesis and pseodo-scientists like Steven Dawkins who is a living contradiction does.
[b]



The bolded is so wrong. Please read my posts "Christian Scientist and thinkers" on this thread again. It tears your bolded statement to shreds. Besides, you just contradicted your earlier statement which admitted implicitly, that theism is not an hindrance to development on the contrary, theist actually laid the foundation of its advancement.

That's a huge claim! Atheists have different reasons for drawing their conclusions. Some are disappointed at the contradictions science finds in religions. Modern Science has dug out numerous errors in the Bible, and that's not surprising, considering the age it was written.

SNCOQ3: This is my understand of life so far:

Their are three persons in One God and One God in three persons (the word "One" use to describe the trinity is the hebrew word Echod -means composite unity not solitary unity)
1. The Father
2. The Son (the word "Son" means the exact representation of the Father or a manifestation of God to man)
3. The Holy Spirit

This idea violates the law of identity. How can one person be three people? This implies that A=3A which is incoherent.

SNCOQ3:
Their are three aspects of man
1. spirit
2. soul --> (1.Mind 2.Emotion 3.Will)
3. body

What is a spirit? Are you saying that a person's emotion, mind and will continue after the person dies?

SNCOQ3:
Their are three realms in life
1. The Spiritual --> explored by faith
2. The Rational --> explored by intellectualizing (i don't subscribe to speculative philosophy but the pursuit of truth subject to Rhema)
3. The Material --> explored by scientific methods (the empirical)

What is a spiritual realm? Also, keep in mind that religious faith is belief in the absence of or contrary to evidence. So I don't think it is of use in exploring anything.

@SNCOQ3
I respect your points and opinions, you truly sound like a smart guy. Unfortunately, i think you are wrong on so many levels (i guess i'm entitled to my fact based opinion), i dont even know where to start from. I will try to be as succinct as possible.

1)yeah i am sure, christian reasoning/logic always goes in circles until we get to the point where they say: "that's my faith" or "well, thats what i believe" and that's if they are nice, if not they say "U'll burn in hell" and all that crap. I dont blame them, its what thousands of years of effective brainwashing can do.

2)lol, i see what u are trying to do there (reverse psychology), i will allow people search for themselves, i think the examples i gave are succinct enough.
well, it will hurt you to know that, as great minds contribute to science it continues to expose that the bible didn't really know much about the earth or universe outside a 5 mile radius of the people who wrote it. for example, how come no one talked about other planets or galaxies in the bible?

on ur second point, Let me follow ur tot process here: agreed, multiple belief system "might not" directly prove no god, but at a very minimum, it surely means that only one is correct [/b]and all the rest are [b]bad-shit-crazy wrong! (this is a best case scenario oh, and it might not be Christianity so don't get ahead of urself there).

3)Thirdly, Atheism is not a faith based religion oh! Because u have a faith based religion doesn't mean u must force everyone else to have one. Look, i cant speak for everyone, i can only speak for myself (and maybe a few friends), if there was sufficient prove on the truth about a religion or god, i will forever believe, it really isn't a big deal.

4)"[s]The idea of Christianity vs Science is nonsensical. Real science does not contradict the bible"[/s]. Bro, even u know thats not true now so let me not say much on that and save space.

5) I never contradicted myself, Religion is the greatest weapon developed by man to subdue and control (never ever think otherwise for a second) it can be used to push any course it so wills. It supported science until it found out that science actually was the true eye opener to must of its gaffes.

Case example, a hindrance to development, Imam Hamid Al-Ghazali, he's philosophy rivaled science. Others have cited his movement from science to faith as a detriment to Islamic scientific progress
And this guy was so smart he even taught Christian scholars oh

Go figure!

To all the Christians on this thread, remember that there's a difference between evangelizing and arguing.

The Word of God you believe clearly says that the things of the Spirit are foolishness to the carnal mind. They cannot be carnally discerned.

Therefore, if you truly believe the Word you preach you would understand that this is not a matter to be argued.

Remember also that the Holy Spirit does not convince. He convicts.

SNCOQ3:

YAHWEH - The One True God is not the god of your imagination but the God of Revelation.
The God that can fit into your imagination is a[i] god[/i]; When materialized - an idol.
Another name the Jews call YAHWEH is the non-existent God- The God who does not exist in the imagination of man( the world is perceived and interpreted with the mind). YAHWEH can only REVEAL himself to us to be known. And He must come down to our level so that we can understand Him. Jesus Christ is YAHWEH revealed to us. His other name is Emmanuel, meaning "God is with us". Some things in life can never be taken, they can only be given.




Have you 'seen' REALITY before? by the way, could you first define reality?

Anything that happens for real is reality. So for example Pastors urging thier poor congregation to donate money for to build a university that they (the poor) will not be able to afford to send their own children to is happening for real therefore its called REALITY! Your church pastor who rather just pray or your sick child while he sends his own to the best hospital is happening for real therefore its called reality. There are 3 or 4 business centres posing as churches on nearly ev ery street in lagos all they do is take 10% of their congregations salary and feed them with opium in the form of prayers and motivational preaching now that is happening for real so that is called reality. Need i say more? But obviously you can't see these things and countless others because you yourself like i said is blinded to reality.

My prayer for all you atheists and agnostics is that God should touch ur lives like he did Saul on his way to Damascus. So that you will believe in Him and repent, in order not to end up in hell fire where you'll have all the proofs you're looking for, by then it would have been too late for you.

davidugotex: My prayer for all you atheists and agnostics is that God should touch ur lives like he did Saul on his way to Damascus. So that you will believe in Him and repent, in order not to end up in hell fire where you'll have all the proofs you're looking for, by then it would have been too late for you.

God stays hidden throughout life and pop up to send you to hell? Where people are tortured alive after they die?? And god is love!! The bible says by their fruits you shall know them, well then, who has hurt more people yahweh or lucifer?

Assuming Yahweh exists, he would have the power to throw us into Hell, however we have that right to rebell.

davidugotex: My prayer for all you atheists and agnostics is that God should touch ur lives like he did Saul on his way to Damascus. So that you will believe in Him and repent, in order not to end up in hell fire where you'll have all the proofs you're looking for, by then it would have been too late for you.

Please pray hard and let us know the timeline you've set so that we'll be able to tell when your prayer too fails. As the popular saying goes; nothing fails like prayer.

If you had a clear understanding of life & existence then you would disbelieve god & religion.

thehomer:

Please pray hard and let us know the timeline you've set so that we'll be able to tell when your prayer too fails. As the popular saying goes; nothing fails like prayer.

Classic! ! !