Darui:
As a fellow muslim.threats like this is wrong. Islam loses nothing? If everyone de converts,Islam will still lose nothing? I won't get into any arguments here. Theology is not my forte but please do not encourage.

If you are ignorant u should at the very least be sensible enough to shut up! Since like u claim theology is not your forte, like I said Islam looses nothing even if the whole world was to reject it, when Muhammad pbuh preached Islam Allah told him that his duty is to get the message across whether the people believe or not is not his problem. When Islam started the munafiquuns tried destroying it with their hypocrisy, they join Islam in the morning and de converted in the eveining, yet all their silly games did not destroy Islam, rather Allah made it triumph against the plots of the hypocrites, it is Allah who guides men and it is HE who let men go astray. I reassert that Islam looses nothing by men who decide to go astray. Alhamdulilah, Allah makes the truth clear from errors

vedaxcool:

Let me make u laugh a little more Alhamdulilah, the disbelievers seek to extinguish the light of THE GREAT LEPRECHAUN, yet THE FORCE perfects ITS electromagnetic waves more.

Totally agree!!! 110%

^
It remains gladenning to the heart that u continue to validate the irrational basis your atheism is founded upon. It is on this basis that only people of weak intellect take ur arguments to any more valid than mazaje's claim that electricity was invented

vedaxcool: ^
It remains gladenning to the heart that u continue to validate the irrational basis your atheism is founded upon.

Just keep in mind that I have the same of amount of evidence for THE GREAT LEPRECHAUN and THE FORCE as you have FOR allah. So if THE GREAT LEPREHAUN is irrational, then allah is irrational BUT never speak ill of THE FORCE!!!!

vedaxcool: ^
It is on this basis that only people of weak intellect take ur arguments to any more valid than mazaje's claim that electricity was invented

Maybe he meant the invention of tthe technology that made it usuable. By the way, electricity is evidence of THE GREAT LEPRECHAUN.

mazaje:

Really?. . .Who is it that suffers in his/her belief more than muslims?. . .Why do mumslims kill people for apostasy?. . .People that are comfortable in their beliefs will not go about killing others in the name of their mythical god and trying to fight for him, no?. . .People that are comfortable in their beliefs will not kill apostates or persecute them. . .Why does islam encourage the killing of apostates and killing in the name of allah?. .Muslims are comfortable in their beliefs indeed. . .I laugh in arabic. . .

What a good way to laugh! I laugh with you.

They wouldn't just get it. Even a rat can figure decoy but some humans can not.

vedaxcool:

The cries of an insecure mind . . . When u are thru hurling your lies against Islam know that for hundreds of years Christendom spent all its energy denigrating Islam, lies against Muhammad pbuh
Lies against Allah lies against Islam, but alass like balloon all their lies neither hurt Islam nor destroy it rather we see that today Islam is found in places where the church authorities used to denigrate Islam. Islam without the much help from muslims have continue to go wide and far, from the lies of sept 11 to today more people are trooping into the deen of Allah, the more you lie the more the saner segment of society do their research and fing that you and ur cohorts are nothing more than Liars and play thing of the devil. Even the catholic church admitted that most of charges of violence against Islam are false propaganda. Islam is Allah mercy on humanity leave it or join it, the loss or gain is yours and yours alone.

What is this deluded slave of the imaginary arabic invented myth saying?. . .I asked a simple question, and this deluded slave of an imaginary entity went of tangent. . .If muslims are secured in their beliefs why then do they kill apostates?. . .You keep LYING that islam is spreading. . .Islam is NOT spreading through conversion rather muslims are leaving the violent islamic countries like pakistan, iraq,libya,india, syria, iran, bahrain, afganistan, yemen, somalia in very large numbers to the "infidel" west for refuge and better livelihood. . .High birthrates of muslims in western nations is what is making heir populations grow not conversion . .A research done by a muslims scholar that was posted her on NL showed that majority of western converts revert and leave islam after a few years. . .

The charges of violence against islam and muslims remains a fact. . .Muslims are the only group of people that go about kiling people and chanting allah is great. . .Muslims are the only group of people today that believe in killing others as a religious duty. . .If allah is not an imaginary mythology when then do muslims have to fight for him when ever he or his deluded prophet are insulted?. . .Why doesnt he strike the people that insults him himself since he is so much against blasphemy? why wait upon his murderous slave to do the killings on his behalf?. . .I thought according to the mythology he is al powerful?. . .An all powerful deity that needs his slaves to kill people that mock him or spread his word through the sword and kill those that leave his chosen part right? Sure muslims are "secured" in their beliefs. . .

vedaxcool: ^
It remains gladenning to the heart that u continue to validate the irrational basis your atheism is founded upon. It is on this basis that only people of weak intellect take ur arguments to any more valid than mazaje's claim that electricity was invented

Coming from the same slowpoke that was supporting lagos shia when he stated that coffee is one of the scientific inventions and contributions of islam. . .

What on earth are you people still arguing about??!
Avicenna na you cause all these katakata o. Sheesh!

. . .and the muslim brethren have joined in the mèlee. . .now its gonna get bloody. . . :-D
*rubs hands in gleeful expectation*

mazaje:

What is this deluded slave of the imaginary arabic invented myth saying?. . .I asked a simple question, and this deluded slave of an imaginary entity went of tangent. . .If muslims are secured in their beliefs why then do they kill apostates?. . .You keep LYING that islam is spreading. . .Islam is NOT spreading through conversion rather muslims are leaving the violent islamic countries like pakistan, iraq,libya,india, syria, iran, bahrain, afganistan, yemen, somalia in very large numbers to the "infidel" west for refuge and better livelihood. . .High birthrates of muslims in western nations is what is making heir populations grow not conversion . .A research done by a muslims scholar that was posted her on NL showed that majority of western converts revert and leave islam after a few years. . .

The charges of violence against islam and muslims remains a fact. . .Muslims are the only group of people that go about kiling people and chanting allah is great. . .Muslims are the only group of people today that believe in killing others as a religious duty. . .If allah is not an imaginary mythology when then do muslims have to fight for him when ever he or his deluded prophet are insulted?. . .Why doesnt he strike the people that insults him himself since he is so much against blasphemy? why wait upon his murderous slave to do the killings on his behalf?. . .I thought according to the mythology he is al powerful?. . .An all powerful deity that needs his slaves to kill people that mock him or spread his word through the sword and kill those that leave his chosen part right? Sure muslims are "secured" in their beliefs. . .

The cries of an insecure mind . . . Mr. Electricity was invented when would u stop displaying animal $tupidity? Whenever I read your response I always certainly conclude atheists are nothing and atheism is nothing. Or how else does one read a statement that was addressing atheists and ends up asking questions that had no bearing on the statement! Ehh mr. I got a million dols in my acct? That you are a DELUDED SLAVE OF godlessness should not make u a complete imbeci1, I deliberately did not address you question because it bore all the hall marks of atheistic $tupidity and uncommon foolery. My statement was very clear, I wondered whether the mental illness some associate with atheism have not taken hold of you. How does one reply a statement that says "validated my thoughts that atheist suffer serious insecurity in their disbelief" with muslims are insecure? Mr. Electricity was invented we know u are dumber than rock salt but atleast in responding to questions your famed dumbness that fooled you to believe electricity was invented should have atleast serve you better in responding coherently to statement that you find discomfitting. And yet you expected answer to questions that came from the depths of your stup1dity? No, pertheticans like you are not worth the effort indeed! This behavior of yours is not new, you always certainly answer question like this, it seems an atheist standard method of responding to queries or statement, rather than address the issues raise, simply ask counter question in a bid to save their insecure mind from probing the disbelief they follow! Again when you are thru hurling your LIES sorry LIES of your brain washer know it can not harm Islam anymore than taking a drop of water from sea can do to the volume of the sea.
It is fools like yourself that makes atheism a Cheap joke no one really want to laugh at, until u can respond sensibly to questions without thinking that electricity was invented, we will have to settle that all your yapping was merely acting out of impulse stemming from the insecurity you have about ur disbelief rather than a sensible coherent reply which serves the basis of all discourse. The statement was not a comparison btw insecurity in Islam and atheism it was merely about insecurity that atheist face in their disbelief and their need for validation, any sensible person would have responded to the claim by disapproving it or agreeing to it, but when dealing with a man that believes Electricity was invented . . .

I wouldn't blame some educated Nigerians in this forum who couldn't figure out religion as tradition full of myths and legends, for the simple truth, they allow sentiments and emotions to take over matters. At least, ignorance exist among educated whites as well, mostly, in the area of race. Should I say ignorance has become part of human nature or it is human to be ignorant?

I did not know babies are allowed in this forum, some one send the baby atheist to bed before he wets his pants, I am hardly in d cuddly mood

Why are Theists losing sleep over somebody who abandoned religion(myth) for reality?

vedaxcool:

The cries of an insecure mind . . . Mr. Electricity was invented when would u stop displaying animal $tupidity? Whenever I read your response I always certainly conclude atheists are nothing and atheism is nothing. Or how else does one read a statement that was addressing atheists and ends up asking questions that had no bearing on the statement! Ehh mr. I got a million dols in my acct? That you are a DELUDED SLAVE OF godlessness should not make u a complete imbeci1, I deliberately did not address you question because it bore all the hall marks of atheistic $tupidity and uncommon foolery. My statement was very clear, I wondered whether the mental illness some associate with atheism have not taken hold of you. How does one reply a statement that says "validated my thoughts that atheist suffer serious insecurity in their disbelief" with muslims are insecure? Mr. Electricity was invented we know u are dumber than rock salt but atleast in responding to questions your famed dumbness that fooled you to believe electricity was invented should have atleast serve you better in responding coherently to statement that you find discomfitting. And yet you expected answer to questions that came from the depths of your stup1dity? No, pertheticans like you are not worth the effort indeed! This behavior of yours is not new, you always certainly answer question like this, it seems an atheist standard method of responding to queries or statement, rather than address the issues raise, simply ask counter question in a bid to save their insecure mind from probing the disbelief they follow! Again when you are thru hurling your LIES sorry LIES of your brain washer know it can not harm Islam anymore than taking a drop of water from sea can do to the volume of the sea.
It is fools like yourself that makes atheism a Cheap joke no one really want to laugh at, until u can respond sensibly to questions without thinking that electricity was invented, we will have to settle that all your yapping was merely acting out of impulse stemming from the insecurity you have about ur disbelief rather than a sensible coherent reply which serves the basis of all discourse. The statement was not a comparison btw insecurity in Islam and atheism it was merely about insecurity that atheist face in their disbelief and their need for validation, any sensible person would have responded to the claim by disapproving it or agreeing to it, but when dealing with a man that believes Electricity was invented . . .

What is this slowpoke and deluded slave of an arabic imaginary entity yapping about?. . .You claimed that atheist are insucure in their unbelief and as such they want others to join their bandwagon. . .I always have a way of answering deluded foools than can not see beyond their noses. . .How does making others join your belief or unbelief amount to insecurity?. . .Do muslims not go about urging people to join their bubble of delusion called islam?. . .So muslims are also in-secured, no?. . .Muslims not only go about urging people to join their bubble of delusion but also kill others that decide to leave the bubble of delusion, is that not true?. . .I do not expect a person that supports coffee as a scientific invention of islam to understand anything. . .The fact that the irony escapes you is no surprise to me. . .Muslims are the only ones that presently go about killing others as a religious duty in the world today. . .death for apostasy, death for blasphemy, killing to spread the delusion that is islam ,etc. . .All the islamic terrorist groups go about killing other unbelievers as a religious duty, no?. . .How will some one that believes that coffe is a scientific invention of islam understand anything?. . .I laugh in arabic the language of allah. . .

mazaje:

What is this slowpoke and deluded slave of an arabic imaginary entity yapping about?. . .You claimed that atheist are insucure in their unbelief and as such they want others to join their bandwagon. . .I always have a way of answering deluded foools than can not see beyond their noses. . .How does making others join your belief or unbelief amount to insecurity?. . .Do muslims not go about urging people to join their bubble of delusion called islam?. . .So muslims are also in-secured, no?. . .Muslims not only go about urging people to join their bubble of delusion but also kill others that decide to leave the bubble of delusion, is that not true?. . .I do not expect a person that supports coffee as a scientific invention of islam to understand anything. . .The fact that the irony escapes you is no surprise to me. . .Muslims are the only ones that presently go about killing others as a religious duty in the world today. . .death for apostasy, death for blasphemy, killing to spread the delusion that is islam ,etc. . .All the islamic terrorist groups go about killing other unbelievers as a religious duty, no?. . .How will some one that believes that coffe is a scientific invention of islam understand anything?. . .I laugh in arabic the language of allah. . .

MA+D man! . After teaching how to sensibly respond to my statement, u failed woefully in making any more sense than the screams of a drunken monkey stop making a complete fool of yourself Mr. Electricity was invented! Why don't you call martian ur lap dog to help since apparently he knows what you mean when u say electricity was invented pathetican! Are atheists this dumb? In my previous post I made an assertion that atheist will eventually ask counter questions than address the issues at hand occasioned by their insecure minds and nothingness of atheism, posts later mr electricity was invented validated my assertion! On reading his response which mimics the barking of a rabid dog, one has to wonder whether all is well? The derelict 1mbecil has again work wonders with his compulsive display of animal $tupidity! We wonder whether your atheist allies will think well of you, first you asserted that electricity was invented and now this! Mazaje is a good case against atheism truth be told lol! And please do laugh not just in arabic but hebrew, aramic etc we know when you responded to my post, you were a little bit close to assaulting you computer . . . Or you could have laughed only if you had some sort of menta1 illness that is commonly associated sadism! Lol!

vedaxcool:

MA+D man! . After teaching how to sensibly respond to my statement, u failed woefully in making any more sense than the screams of a drunken monkey stop making a complete fool of yourself Mr. Electricity was invented! Why don't you call martian ur lap dog to help since apparently he knows what you mean when u say electricity was invented pathetican! Are atheists this dumb? In my previous post I made an assertion that atheist will eventually ask counter questions than address the issues at hand occasioned by their insecure minds and nothingness of atheism, posts later mr electricity was invented validated my assertion! On reading his response which mimics the barking of a rabid dog, one has to wonder whether all is well? The derelict 1mbecil has again work wonders with his compulsive display of animal $tupidity! We wonder whether your atheist allies will think well of you, first you asserted that electricity was invented and now this! Mazaje is a good case against atheism truth be told lol! And please do laugh not just in arabic but hebrew, aramic etc we know when you responded to my post, you were a little bit close to assaulting you computer . . . Or you could have laughed only if you had some sort of menta1 illness that is commonly associated sadism! Lol!

Keep yapping like the mad dog that you are. . .I repeat i just love replying foools with their folly. . .You claimed that atheist celebrate when a new person join their ranks, you also claimed that atheist are in-secured as a result of this and hence rely on numbers to make them feel secured and normal. . .I chose to reply your imbecilic nonsense in the only language you understand so that you can see how stupi.d and foolis.h you are. . .Muslims are known all over the world to celebrate when people convert to islam. . .They offer gifts both monetary and non monetary gifts to new converts, some even give their daughters to new converts to marry as gifts for converting to islam. . .Since muslims celebrate the conversion of others into islam that means they are insecured according to vexdacool who believes that coffee is a scientific invention of islam,no?. . .You also claimed that atheist are looking for numbers, when we know that muslims are the ones that always use numbers to brag all the time. . .You even used numbers to brag on this thread. . .I just wanted to point out the irony in your post so that you can see how stupi.d and nonsensical your post was, but as usual the irony escaped you. . . Assault my computer?. . .Its not every body that loves violence like you do, you just said what you do when angry, no?. . .you go about assaulting people and breaking stuffs when you are mad, no?. . .sorry i am not like you. . .keep on breaking things you deluded slave of an imaginary arabic construct. . .When you are done breaking everything in your room you can go bath in pork. . .fooool. . .

This argument is so petty:

Islam is growing in the west as a result of the birth-rate and an increase in the number of conversion... Over the last year, personally i have seen maybe about 60 people revert to islam here in the US. They are all still muslims. The conversions come from all spheres including staunch atheists and christians. You will never hear of a scholar of the Quran leaving Islam.... Once, you have an understanding of this book, Atheism is impossible because the proofs are overwhelming.

Atheism and Islam are on a growth curve for similar but opposite reasons.

Islam believes that there is a rational basis for the belief in God; the Quran, the life of Muhammad,et.c
Atheism says that religion has no rational basis..

Have a sane discussion...

tbaba1234: This argument is so petty:

Islam is growing in the west as a result of the birth-rate and an increase in the number of conversion... Over the last year, personally i have seen maybe about 60 people revert to islam here in the US. They are all still muslims. The conversions come from all spheres including staunch atheists and christians. You will never hear of a scholar of the Quran leaving Islam.... Once, you have an understanding of this book, Atheism is impossible because the proofs are overwhelming.

Atheism and Islam are on a growth curve for similar but opposite reasons.

Islam believes that there is a rational basis for the belief in God; the Quran, the life of Muhammad,et.c
Atheism says that religion has no rational basis..

Have a sane discussion...

Increased number of conversion? Not true. . .Is there any statistical data that can point to this?. . .Peronal anecdotes is of no value in such a situation. . .I know many muslims that are now ex muslims here in europe. . .But I will not use personal anecdotes here. . .A research conducted by a muslim scholar showed that majority of westerners that convert to islam leave the religion after some years. . .Islam is rising in the west ONLY because muslims are running from muslim nations to the west for better opportunities and not because of conversion. . . .Your analogy is the same as claiming that christianity is on the rise in the gulf because of influx of westerners there. . . .

There are islamic scholars that are non muslim so what is it about your islamic scholars not leaving islam?. . .You keep talking about the koran when there are better books that explain everything much more than it. . .What is so special about the book?

tbaba1234: This argument is so petty:

Islam is growing in the west as a result of the birth-rate and an increase in the number of conversion... Over the last year, personally i have seen maybe about 60 people revert to islam here in the US. They are all still muslims. The conversions come from all spheres including staunch atheists and christians. You will never hear of a scholar of the Quran leaving Islam.... Once, you have an understanding of this book, Atheism is impossible because the proofs are overwhelming.

Atheism and Islam are on a growth curve for similar but opposite reasons.

Islam believes that there is a rational basis for the belief in God; the Quran, the life of Muhammad,et.c
Atheism says that religion has no rational basis..

Have a sane discussion...

From reading your comment I deduce one thing that you are here to defend Islam, which you fail to put forth as the reason why you are here comparing both sides.

If I have to address your shady tone, from the way you put Islam increasing number of converts, due to your assumed high birth rate and increase in faithful followers, I would say it is based on your hypothesis(which you quite explain with 60 converts you known of). Then using your neighborhood without explaining to us the nature of it could well be regarded as speculating, for the lack of factors to ascertain your assertions. Mind you, most people who join that religion are either for personal reasons in the light of sentiments, and in America mostly blacks do that.

Islam growth, for me, is based on speculations. Most growth are still coming from within the Muslims enclave relative to increase in population in some uber-religious Islamic countries, like in places of Indonesia, Iran, Kazarstan, etc. Even in Nigeria, it is still the same speculation that is the order of the day. On the contrary, there seems to be more Christians than Muslim, according most Nigerians in Nigeria and those posting in this forum.

To be rational can as well connotes to allow room for evidences which can be tested - which I think Muslims will never accept from those they called infidels. Meanwhile, I have a good idea about them of being hypocritical in many of their doings. Atheists never said religion doesn't have rational behind it but their rationales should be expressed in what they are - myths, legendary and traditions. Not some abstract imageries of supernatural beings that don't exist, claiming to be what they are not and as well misleading people with them.

vedaxcool:

If you are ignorant u should at the very least be sensible enough to shut up! Since like u claim theology is not your forte, like I said Islam looses nothing even if the whole world was to reject it, when Muhammad pbuh preached Islam Allah told him that his duty is to get the message across whether the people believe or not is not his problem. When Islam started the [size=14pt]munafiquuns[/size] tried destroying it with their hypocrisy, they join Islam in the morning and de converted in the eveining, yet all their silly games did not destroy Islam, rather Allah made it triumph against the plots of the hypocrites, it is Allah who guides men and it is HE who let men go astray. I reassert that Islam looses nothing by men who decide to go astray. Alhamdulilah, Allah makes the truth clear from errors

munafiquuns? is that the arabic translation of mutherfuckkers?

tbaba1234: This argument is so petty:

Islam is growing in the west as a result of the birth-rate and an increase in the number of conversion... Over the last year, personally i have seen maybe about 60 people revert to islam here in the US. They are all still muslims. The conversions come from all spheres including staunch atheists and christians. You will never hear of a scholar of the Quran leaving Islam.... Once, you have an understanding of this book, Atheism is impossible because the proofs are overwhelming.

Atheism and Islam are on a growth curve for similar but opposite reasons.

Islam believes that there is a rational basis for the belief in God; the Quran, the life of Muhammad,et.c
Atheism says that religion has no rational basis..

Have a sane discussion...

wtf are you doing here again?
bored in your islam for muslims section?

mazaje:

Keep yapping like the mad dog that you are. . .I repeat i just love replying foools with their folly. . .You claimed that atheist celebrate when a new person join their ranks, you also claimed that atheist are in-secured as a result of this and hence rely on numbers to make them feel secured and normal. . .I chose to reply your imbecilic nonsense in the only language you understand so that you can see how stupi.d and foolis.h you are. . .Muslims are known all over the world to celebrate when people convert to islam. . .They offer gifts both monetary and non monetary gifts to new converts, some even give their daughters to new converts to marry as gifts for converting to islam. . .Since muslims celebrate the conversion of others into islam that means they are insecured according to vexdacool who believes that coffee is a scientific invention of islam,no?. . .You also claimed that atheist are looking for numbers, when we know that muslims are the ones that always use numbers to brag all the time. . .You even used numbers to brag on this thread. . .I just wanted to point out the irony in your post so that you can see how stupi.d and nonsensical your post was, but as usual the irony escaped you. . . Assault my computer?. . .Its not every body that loves violence like you do, you just said what you do when angry, no?. . .you go about assaulting people and breaking stuffs when you are mad, no?. . .sorry i am not like you. . .keep on breaking things you deluded slave of an imaginary arabic construct. . .When you are done breaking everything in your room you can go bath in pork. . .fooool. . .

*faints instantly*

Logic Mind:

munafiquuns? is that the arabic translation of mutherfuckkers?

*drinks rat poison*

mazaje:


Increased number of conversion? Not true. . .Is there any statistical data that can point to this?. . .Peronal anecdotes is of no value in such a situation. . .I know many muslims that are now ex muslims here in europe. . .But I will not use personal anecdotes here. . .A research conducted by a muslim scholar showed that majority of westerners that convert to islam leave the religion after some years. . .Islam is rising in the west ONLY because muslims are running from muslim nations to the west for better opportunities and not because of conversion. . . .Your analogy is the same as claiming that christianity is on the rise in the gulf because of influx of westerners there. . . .

There are islamic scholars that are non muslim so what is it about your islamic scholars not leaving islam?. . .You keep talking about the koran when there are better books that explain everything much more than it. . .What is so special about the book?

Not true? from 2001, :: Estimates put it at 20,000 converts per year as opposed to just 6000 before then: 75% of them are women.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfx4glTU5JQ NBC News

In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/ (CNN)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12075931 (BBC)

Some people do leave due to family pressures, doubts or difficulty in practising... but those that stay are often times better muslims than born muslim.

If you go to the mosques, you would notice the increase in new muslims: It is still a small percentage of the population but there is definitely a growth trend.

In the gulf, there is also an increase in conversion from foreigners living there>>>

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/increasing-number-converting-to-islam

I specifically said a scholar of the Quran:: Everyone with a little knowledge of classical Arabic (not standard Arabic) will tell you about the brilliance of the book>:

A muslim sees it as signs from God.....

A secular person will call it just a brilliant piece of literature. ....

The intricacies of Quranic Arabic is quite frankly uncomparable to anything in the arabic language.

Either way any one that carries out a honest study will end up with a similar conclusion.

tbaba1234:

Not true? from 2001, :: Estimates put it at 20,000 converts per year as opposed to just 6000 before then: 75% of them are women.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfx4glTU5JQ NBC News

In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/ (CNN)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12075931 (BBC)

Some people do leave due to family pressures, doubts or difficulty in practising... but those that stay are often times better muslims than born muslim.

If you go to the mosques, you would notice the increase in new muslims: It is still a small percentage of the population but there is definitely a growth trend.

In the gulf, there is also an increase in conversion from foreigners living there>>>

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/increasing-number-converting-to-islam

I specifically said a scholar of the Quran:: Everyone with a little knowledge of classical Arabic (not standard Arabic) will tell you about the brilliance of the book>:

A muslim sees it as signs from God.....

A secular person will call it just a brilliant piece of literature. ....

The intricacies of Quranic Arabic is quite frankly uncomparable to anything in the arabic language.

Either way any one that carries out a honest study will end up with a similar conclusion.

Again I repeat NOT true, I notice that muslims love to hype and blow things out of proportion all the time. . .The fact remains that very few people in the west convert to islam compared to those that migrate there or the high birth rates. . .Less than 1 percent of American muslims are converts. . .Less than 1 percent of German and British muslims are convert but muslims will not tell you that, they will keep telling you that islam is rising in the west but studies have shown that majority of converts are ex criminals and most convert to islam in prisons according to this report http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/14/AR2007091402265.html . . . .The fact is that muslim converts are a very tiny minority and the increase in the musims population is as a result of migration and high muslim birth rates and NOT conversion as muslims will like to have people believe, you can not claim high increase in numers when conversion accounts for less than 1 percent of the entire muslim population. . .

A recent research by a muslim scholar called Prof Illays ba Yunus says that about 75% of converts in the united states leave islam after some time. . .

About the koran, sure its a good piece of literature, but so is the bible, verders and other ancient books. . .There is NOTHING written inside the koran that could not have been written by men that lived in the world at that time. . .Nothing written in the koran that could not be written by humans and there are many books in the world today that are better than it. . .So i really don't understand this brilliance that is always associated with it. . .

tbaba1234:

The intricacies of Quranic Arabic is quite frankly uncomparable to anything in the arabic language.

The basic problem of Islam. I tried to read in the Koran in English- very difficult task.


Why would an all knowing God use such a language for his words and commandment? Of all the languages, Allah chose Arabic?


BTW, here is my rebuttal to the notion that the Koran is divine or perfect;

-Ask any lawyer or anyone that has studied law about the dynamic nature of law. They will tell you that laws have to be changer, updated or discarded because technological, economic and social changes all need to be addressed by the law.

-Muslims claim that the Koran is perfect and God's word

-However, the muslims' claims are wrong because all laws have to be updated or they become obsolete. The Koran is a book of laws that are finite and have never been updated. How does the Koran relate to the internet/technology of today? How does the Koran relate to the equality of women and feminism of today? How does the Koran relate to capitalism?


The Koran can not address the internet; is it haraam to drink alcohol with your videogame character on the internet? Is it haraam to let beer be advertised on your website? Is it haraam to allow websites that make fun of Mohammed/Allah (Freedom of speech on the internet/internet censorship)?


The Koran can not address the modern day feminism; Why does the Koran allow muslim men to marry non-muslims but doesn give the same rights to Women to marry non-muslims? Equal pay and equal opportunity- why cant a woman be the head/leader of a mosque? Why are men allowed to beat their wives in the Koran?

The Koran can not address capitalism; Why should Riba be haraam? The irony comes when muslims trade in the stock market or use non-islamic banks/finance. Banks survive on interest. Nations even make money off interest.

I have asked you these questions respectfully, please dont go down the route of claiming that I wan to insult islam

mazaje:

Again I repeat NOT true, I notice that muslims love to hype and blow things out of proportion all the time. . .The fact remains that very few people in the west convert to islam compared to those that migrate there or the high birth rates. . .Less than 1 percent of American muslims are converts. . .Less than 1 percent of German and British muslims are convert but muslims will not tell you that, they will keep telling you that islam is rising in the west but studies have shown that majority of converts are ex criminals and most convert to islam in prisons according to this report http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/14/AR2007091402265.html . . . .The fact is that muslim converts are a very tiny minority and the increase in the musims population is as a result of migration and high muslim birth rates and NOT conversion as muslims will like to have people believe, you can not claim high increase in numers when conversion accounts for less than 1 percent of the entire muslim population. . .

A recent research by a muslim scholar called Prof Illays ba Yunus says that about 75% of converts in the united states leave islam after some time. . .

About the koran, sure its a good piece of literature, but so is the bible, verders and other ancient books. . .There is NOTHING written inside the koran that could not have been written by men that lived in the world at that time. . .Nothing written in the koran that could not be written by humans and there are many books in the world today that are better than it. . .So i really don't understand this brilliance that is always associated with it. . .

Less than 1%?? at least 25% are converts in the US alone. Is suspect it is more..

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/30/nyregion/30converts.html?_r=1

At least try and speak with facts:: I live in the US and i go to mosques...

If it could have been written by men at its time or now it would have... The Quran could not possibly be written by a man because if you understood anything about the Arabic language you will know that it descopes the Arabic Language. There is simply nothing like it.

logicboy:


The basic problem of Islam. I tried read in the Koran in English- very difficult task.


Why would an all knowing God use such a language for his words and commandment? Of all the languages, Allah chose Arabic?


BTW, here is my rebuttal to the notion that the Koran is divine or perfect;

-Ask any lawyer or anyone that has studied law about the dynamic nature of law. They will tell you that laws have to be changer, updated or discarded because technological, economic and social changes all need to be addressed by the law.

-Muslims claim that the Koran is perfect and God's word

-However, the muslims' claims are wrong because all laws have to be updated or they become obsolete. The Koran is a book of laws that are finite and have never been updated. How does the Koran relate to the internet/technology of today? How does the Koran relate to the equality of women and feminism of today? How does the Koran relate to capitalism?


The Koran can not address the internet; is it haraam to drink alcohol with your videogame character on the internet? Is it haraam to let beer be advertised on your website? Is it haraam to allow websites that make fun of Mohammed/Allah (Freedom of speech on the internet/internet censorship)?


The Koran can not address the modern day feminism; Why does the Koran allow muslim men to marry non-muslims but doesn give the same rights to Women to marry non-muslims? Equal pay and equal opportunity- why cant a woman be the head/leader of a mosque? Why are men allowed to beat their wives in the Koran?

The Koran can not address capitalism; Why should Riba be haraam? The irony comes when muslims trade in the stock market or use non-islamic banks/finance. Banks survive on interest. Nations even make money off interest.

I have asked you these questions respectfully, please dont go down the route of claiming that I wan to insult islam

I have no reason to try and go down that route:

It is difficult to translate classical Arabic because the full depth of the meaning cannot be fully expressed in english. I do not know the translation you got but there are some good ones; I would suggest you get more than one to get a fuller meaning of the words.

The Saheeh international translation is probably the best for non-muslims. http://www.islamwb.com/books/Quran-Saheeh-International-English-Translation.pdf

If you understood the depth of classical Arabic, you will know why Allah chose Arabic as the language of transmission. The intricacies in the Quranic discourse is as a result of the language. A complex system of grammer and word formation as well as its precision makes the Arabic language profound.

Nouman ali Khan explains brilliantly:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7FcAy3KlbE

- The laws of Islam is based on the Quran, the hadith. The sharia extends beyond laws and covers every aspect of human life. Social, Political, spiritual, economic, moral dietary.


Some laws are definite- Can't be changed- if they are expressly stated in the Quran or hadith. This is the Sharia

Some laws are dependent on the social conditions and can change in line with the changing conditions in the society- usually laws agreed upon by scholars based on the Quran and hadith.

This is called Fiqh. So in fiqh, there could differences of opinions by the scholars. Fiqh is ongoing and changes from generation to generation.

-We believe that the only objective measurement for good are the laws set by the creator. Social pressures means that our moral standards keep changing from generation to generation.

-It is haram to advertise alcohol on your website or anywhere. or to insult the Prophet or Allah. That is quite clear. In an authentic hadeeth prophet Mohammad pbuh cursed evry one involved with alcohol from the makers buyers seller and transporters.

Every ruling is based on the Quran and the prophetic teachings..

Drinking alcohol in a video game is also haram if it promotes actions that are seen openly wrong. depending on the conditions it could be a fiqh issue.e

Absolute freedom of speech is an aberration, every society has its taboo subjects,... For us it is Insulting God or any of the prophets of God. States ban racial speech and there are places you can't speak about the holocaust in a negative way without some serious consequences.

Helen Thomas, a veteran reporter in the US lost everything for making this honest statement. she lost her job and a reputation she took years building.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVlg01QMN3k

The sheer hypocrisy is astounding...

-Do you know that whatever a muslim woman earns belongs to her ALONE?, she doesn't have to share it with anyone..
Do you know that a muslim woman is supposed to keep her father's name and is not compelled to change her name to her husband's name?

Islamic laws for women ensure equity not equality. Both parties are given laws based on their characteristics.Men and women are different in many ways and the laws accomodate those differences.

For instance, a woman does not have to pray during her menses but gets the rewards of one who does. Women suffer from mood swings and all kind of hormonal changes during this period so their burdens are reduced and they do not have to pray. Men have to pray always.

Men are given the responsibility to maintain and protect their wives, sisters and all the women in their lives. Men are generally stronger than women physically so are in a better position to protect his women.

Women were given inheritance rights 1500 years ago, the laws for inheritance for women in the west are just about 100 years old.

Women were given scholarship in islam; some of the greatest islamic scholars were women at a time the christian west were still arguing whether a woman has a soul.

A non-muslim man does not guarantee these rights for a muslim woman... Would she keep everything she earn to herself d? would she be allowed to keep her fathers name if she wants to? Would the man allow the habits of praying and fasting in his household?

The muslim man has a religious obligation to fulfill his wife's rights. The non-muslim man does not.

A muslim man on the other hand can ensure that his wife's rights are observed.

It is a ruling by Allah with profound wisdom.

A woman can not lead the prayers in the mosque but she can serve in a leadership role at the mosque.

She can't lead the prayers for obvious reasons, a woman standing in front of men could be an easy distraction, besides it was not practised by the prophet. Women can lead themselves in prayer.

beat their wives?

The word used in the Quran is Daraba which means to tap lightly and not leave a mark.

This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim:

"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying:

"Never beat God's handmaidens."

The verse handles conflict resolution in a marriage:

Islam is a practical religion and it does recognize that there are circumstances in which a marriage becomes on the verge of collapsing. In such cases, a mere advice of kindness or self restraint is no viable solution. So, what to do in order to save a marriage in these cases? The Quran offers some practical advice for the spouse (husband or wife) whose partner (wife or husband) is the wrongdoer. For the husband whose wife's ill-conduct is threatening the marriage, the Quran gives four types of advice as detailed in the following verses:

"As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, (1) Admonish them, (2) refuse to share their beds, (3) beat them lightly; but if they return to obedience seek not against them means of annoyance: For Allah is Most High, Great. (4) If you fear a break between them, appoint two arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers; If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation" (Quran 4:34-35).

The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

The first three are to be tried first. If they fail, then the help of the families concerned should be sought.

For the wife whose husband's ill-conduct is the cause for the marriage's near collapse, the Quran offers the following advice:

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best" (Quran 4:12.

In this case, the wife is advised to seek reconciliation or break off peacefully with her husband (with or without family assistance). It is notable that the Quran is not advising the wife to resort to the two measures of abstention from sex and beating. The reason for this disparity might be to protect the wife from a violent physical reaction by her already misbehaving husband. Such a violent physical reaction will do both the wife and the marriage more harm than good.


- The interest based economy comes with its own problems: Inflation rates spiraling out of control. Nations unable to pay their debts. We offer a solution that works and has worked. The reason the global economy is controlled by banks is because of this interest system. The global financial crisis would not have happened under an islamic economic system because most of the factors that caused it are prohibited.

Thank you for answering my questions in detail. I am very impressed with your answers. To be honest, I thought that you would either ignore my comment or be intellectually crushed with the questions. I'm quite happy that you took your time to answer my questions.


I agree with some of your answers;

-Downfall of a capitalist system- inflation and financial crisis

-The necessity of Fiqh


Here are my disagreements;

1) Are Fiqh and Fatwas not evidence showing that the Koran is a bit obsolete? If the Koran is complete, why do we need Fiqh and Fatwas? Does the Koran justify the bounty put on Salman Rushdie's head or the banning of youtube in Pakistan?

2)Concerning the equal rights of women, I had a muslim girlfriend whom I could not marry or even allow her family or friends know that I am not a muslim because of the Koran- yet my muslim butchers from Pakistan toast my christian sisters from Nigeria with no backlash from muslim customers. Is that fair?

How do you expect me to ever love islam/the koran when the only girl that loved me is banned from marrying me because of my atheism? Do you think that I will ever find Islam tolerant to non-muslims?

Furthermore, why should a husband beat tap his wife? You expect to beleive that the translation of the arabic word in that context means "tap lightly". How does tapping lightly stop a disobedient wife? Even if we agree that its translation is "tap" (since your knowledge of Arabic/koran is clearly better than mine), why should you touch your wife when you are having disagreements?


Also, as for women in power, how do you expect your American women, who are very independent react when they are told that their place is secondary to men? Why cant a woman lead prayers?


3) You live in America. Despite the financial crisis, America and Europe have some of the biggest economies in the world. Do you really think that Islamic finace could grow such economies?


Also, concerning alcohol, some of my rich muslim friends are cocaine and cigar addicts. Only rich people can afford cocaine and cigars (not cigarettes). They say alcohol is bad but they dont mind the occasional sniff of cocaine.

Also, if alcohol is haraam, then no muslim should watch Jackie Chan's movie; the drunken master!


As you can see, there was a time I wanted to be muslim. I was a christian turning into an atheist. So, I started on reading islam, seeing as how many muslims are principled and devoted to a higher purpose. My girlfriend was the deal-breaker- how could islam deny me love? Then I got derailed and started seeing more flaws in Islam. Then I embraced atheism with all my heart.

"Sometimes, you have to be in the darkness to see the faintest of lights"

Kudos to tbaba.. I've learnt a lot about Islam from his posts l...

mazaje:

Keep yapping like the mad dog that you are. . .I repeat i just love replying foools with their folly. . .You claimed that atheist celebrate when a new person join their ranks, you also claimed that atheist are in-secured as a result of this and hence rely on numbers to make them feel secured and normal. . .I chose to reply your imbecilic nonsense in the only language you understand so that you can see how stupi.d and foolis.h you are. . .Muslims are known all over the world to celebrate when people convert to islam. . .They offer gifts both monetary and non monetary gifts to new converts, some even give their daughters to new converts to marry as gifts for converting to islam. . .Since muslims celebrate the conversion of others into islam that means they are insecured according to vexdacool who believes that coffee is a scientific invention of islam,no?. . .You also claimed that atheist are looking for numbers, when we know that muslims are the ones that always use numbers to brag all the time. . .You even used numbers to brag on this thread. . .I just wanted to point out the irony in your post so that you can see how stupi.d and nonsensical your post was, but as usual the irony escaped you. . . Assault my computer?. . .Its not every body that loves violence like you do, you just said what you do when angry, no?. . .you go about assaulting people and breaking stuffs when you are mad, no?. . .sorry i am not like you. . .keep on breaking things you deluded slave of an imaginary arabic construct. . .When you are done breaking everything in your room you can go bath in pork. . .fooool. . .

The cries of an insecure mind . . . It remains baffling that after training you on simple common sense on how to respond to simple statement, you are yet to display that your thinking faculty has not been hacked by animal $tupidity neither is your new system of lying to validate you flawed brain encrypted with multi dimensional forms of 1mbecility any more encouraging as where did I write atheist celebrate when new convert enter their fold? Ehh mr. Electricity was invented! When did I write atheist are insecure. Hence looking for numbers to validate their disbelief? You are certainly a liar and failure to quote my statement that indicated the above would mean you are derelict imbeci1 who tell lies to validate his insecurity, if you are not insecure about your disbelief you would at the very least not tell lies to prove your truths, you response continue to show why atheism is attractive mainly to those who dumb and dullards! Or how else do we explain the indiscriminate use of lies as valid technique in proving your point? It remains little wonder why he has prefered calling muslims at every juncture to refute a statement that referred to atheists on nl! I wonder even baby atheist and in5ane atheist over there seems more sensible and coherent in addressing issues than mr. Electricity was invented and tell me you did not punch your computer because veda made you look the Foool that you really are! U remain a good case against atheism .

logicboy: Thank you for answering my questions in detail. I am very impressed with your answers. To be honest, I thought that you would either ignore my comment or be intellectually crushed with the questions. I'm quite happy that you took your time to answer my questions.


I agree with some of your answers;

-Downfall of a capitalist system- inflation and financial crisis

-The necessity of Fiqh


Here are my disagreements;

1) Are Fiqh and Fatwas not evidence showing that the Koran is a bit obsolete? If the Koran is complete, why do we need Fiqh and Fatwas? Does the Koran justify the bounty put on Salman Rushdie's head or the banning of youtube in Pakistan?

2)Concerning the equal rights of women, I had a muslim girlfriend whom I could not marry or even allow her family or friends know that I am not a muslim because of the Koran- yet my muslim butchers from Pakistan toast my christian sisters from Nigeria with no backlash from muslim customers. Is that fair?

How do you expect me to ever love islam/the koran when the only girl that loved me is banned from marrying me because of my atheism? Do you think that I will ever find Islam tolerant to non-muslims?

Furthermore, why should a husband beat tap his wife? You expect to beleive that the translation of the arabic word in that context means "tap lightly". How does tapping lightly stop a disobedient wife? Even if we agree that its translation is "tap" (since your knowledge of Arabic/koran is clearly better than mine), why should you touch your wife when you are having disagreements?


Also, as for women in power, how do you expect your American women, who are very independent react when they are told that their place is secondary to men? Why cant a woman lead prayers?


3) You live in America. Despite the financial crisis, America and Europe have some of the biggest economies in the world. Do you really think that Islamic finace could grow such economies?


Also, concerning alcohol, some of my rich muslim friends are cocaine and cigar addicts. Only rich people can afford cocaine and cigars (not cigarettes). They say alcohol is bad but they dont mind the occasional sniff of cocaine.

Also, if alcohol is haraam, then no muslim should watch Jackie Chan's movie; the drunken master!


As you can see, there was a time I wanted to be muslim. I was a christian turning into an atheist. So, I started on reading islam, seeing as how many muslims are principled and devoted to a higher purpose. My girlfriend was the deal-breaker- how could islam deny me love? Then I got derailed and started seeing more flaws in Islam. Then I embraced atheism with all my heart.

"Sometimes, you have to be in the darkness to see the faintest of lights"

Islam has the answers to the questions that can be asked.

I started a thread on the questions people have about islam some of these questions have been addressed there. https://www.nairaland.com/802617/questions-muslims-those-who-want

1. A fatwa is an Islamic religious ruling, a scholarly opinion on a matter of Islamic law. A fatwa is not "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom anand it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.

The word fiqh, linguistically, refers to jurisprudence, an understanding, or to know something. Islamically, however, it takes its cue from knowing something based on statements and actions derived from the revelation to Prophet Muhammad (saw). This is what forms the foundation of Islamic Legislation, also called Sharee’yah, whose rulings or HUKM is based on four principle sources

There are FIVE legal maxims / principles that connect and are applied to ALL the chapters of Fiqh.

1- Actions are viewed in light of the doers conscious intention.

2- Certainty is not negated by doubt

3- Hardship necessitates the provision of concession

4- No harm and no reciprocation of harm

5- Local custom is given consideration

All these are principles are espoused in the Quran and the prophetic traditions.

The science of fiqh therefore is the recognition of the religious rulings and how they are DERIVED from the detailed CLEAR proofs. All the proofs are ABSOLUTE and RELATIVE. The absolute ones are the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Messenger and the Ijmaa (cosensus of scholars) or consensus of the ummah (community).

Issues have been made open to reasoned opinion and scholarly determinations which may result in differing opinions in regards to the interpretation and usage of the ambiguous or unclear matters.

These differences are acceptable IFFFFFF they arise out of a sound methodological interpretation of the primary (Quran, Hadith, Ijma) texts by Qualified Imams. This there is no doubt is accepted and there is scholarly consensus (ijma`), that it is obligatory to follow established general methodological principles of interpretation .

The result is NON CERTAIN declarations that are not Yaqeen (Not completely certain of them), although there is REASONABLE SURETY(ghalabat al-dhann).

WHY fiqh?

Islam is dynamic, The principles never change. Societies change and new rulings have to be made because people face new challenges not faced by people in the past. These new rulings are made based on the Quran and the Sunnah.

Like i said earlier, a fatwa is an opinion by a scholar or group of scholars. There are literally millions of them. They are not binding. You can't stop a scholar from releasing an opinion on an issue. Some of their conclusions are more controversial than others. you only hear the controversial ones.

2. you are given practical steps to take and when they fail, you can touch your wife but do not hit her on the face or leave any marks on her body.

The Quran came, at a time when the arab men will beat their wives at the slightest provocation. A ruling comes that essentially stops them from beating their wives and limit any hostile touch to a light hit/tap that leaves no mark.

Do you know how profound that is?

This could be applicable in a situation where she ignores you after you have taken the first 2 steps. You get her attention.

You are not asked to assault your wife. You are not supposed to inflict bodily harm to her. This is prohibited.

If all fails, you have the final option of calling arbiters to settle the rift...

Islam is a conservative religion and does not subscribe to liberalism.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that men are superior to women. Men and women will all be judged equally on the Day of Resurrection and no one will be given preference for their sex on that day.

They are not the same creatures, they have separate rules based on their peculiarities.

A woman praying in front of men? when she bows, she would cause distractions for the men behind her in prayer. It is not about superiority, it is a law based on our natures.

3. The economies are not doing that great at the moment. Islamic finance ensures steady, stable growth not necessarily astronomical growth. The growth of these economies is rapid but it is accompanied by huge crashes from time to time.