exu:

I'm seeing a lot of blanket statements in this thread that aren't true, in the least.
I know plenty of people who are of Asia descent who have never been taught their so called 'mother tongue'.

I wonder where you did your little sampling. Maybe you should take a trip to a chinatown in any major metropolis in Europe or the US and sample the kids born there.

i am kenyan of luhya descent. my mum is kamba but i din't learn the language from her!
it does not make me less of a kenyan.
i grasp languages very fast but i decided not to learn my dad's tongue coz of reasons i wudn't want to disclose here.this doesn't mean i cant hear wen people speak about me in my presence!!
i learned my mum's tongue from house gals we had wen i was young.
in any other circumstance, i wud be a kenyan who spoke only english and swahili(thank God atleast i know this one!)
the kids are not to blame. i don't know what language my kids will speak especially if their father will be of a different tribe and maybe knows very little of his own tongue.
i agree with Rof that parents who refuse to teach their kids their tongue for selfish reasons are wrong but that is not reason to castigate the kids who can't speak it!so faithsight take heart.

The kids are not to be blamed for the ignorance of their parents. But these unfortunate kids ought to realize that it's an aberration which must not be encouraged.

Wow, this is awesome. I took the time to read all of the comments posted. I commend everyone for voicing their opinions. I am Yoruba and my father was deported when I was very young. I could understand Yoruba a little but with any language if not spoken consistently, you will forget especially if everyone around me speaks English. Now that I have graduated and gone on to complete my masters, I have surrounded myself around a lot of other Nigerians. I use to be ashamed of not being able to speak my native language. It is not my fault nor my parent's fault that I don't. What can I do about it? Let me tell you. You have to want to learn to speak it. That means studying it daily as you did to pass Spanish class. That means talking to yourself an quizzing yourself and surrounding yourself with people that want to help you learn instead of criticize you for what you don't know.

Ninety percent of the languages spoken in Nigeria, the people can't write them. So when someone says to you, you can't speak Yoruba, well they cant write it either. Now I can write standard Yoruba and am on a pretty decent level of fluency. Not because I had to, but because I want to.

They problem with a lot of Black Americans is that they think they are actually from America!There were no blacks here when it was discovered. The reason that many blacks don't know their history, language and culture is because it was stripped away from them.Let me give you a brief history lesson.

When slaves were brought over here(and yes many sold by their own people) they were banned from speaking their languages, practicing their cultures and anything that had to do with defying the new rules. If you know the easiest way to control a people's to strip them of their identity. That's what they did. If you were caught speaking anything but English or dancing or anything that had to do with African culture, it was whipped, or even killed out of you. So they had to speak English, there was no choice.So now Black Americans are so de-culturalized that they can't even identify with Africa, they think that Africans are another race and even get offended when you call them African Americans!!!

I encourage everyone whether directly African or Afro-American to embrace your culture. If Mexicans can come to America and have people to speak and adapt to their culture, why can't we? Those of you who are native speakers, encourage your friends to learn and teach them. No one is to blame for not knowing who you are, but when find out who you are and you ignore it, the fault lies on you.

Most of you guys on this thread are just talking a bunch of RUBBISH!! But dont stop, keep talking so that we can see full of nothing you are. As i said earlier, it is not a thing of pride not being able to understand one's language, but who gave YOU the right the judge anybody about it? Dont YOU have faults of your own? Some people find it very hard to learn new languages, that doesnt make them stupid in any way.
PLEASE my fellow Nigerians, STOP JUDGING AND HATING ON PEOPLE. Gosh! Some of you guys are just soo fricking Ridiculous and Self -righteous. Not to worry, one day you'll be in similar shoes,

@Comechop,
The goal is not to judge anyone, especially those whose parents failed to impart this valuable knowledge, but rather dissuade the idea that our local language is uncool. So that we don't make the same mistake some of our parents made with our kids.

Most of you guys on this thread are just talking a bunch of RUBBISH!! But don't stop, keep talking so that we can see full of nothing you are.

i started this trend, just to find out if there were any yoruba's that could not speak yoruba in Nigeria. and the answer is YES. I need to find this out, in order to point out to thoses that come over to UK and diss me coz i was not able to pick up my language

You dont need to point anything out. Just ignore them. Their dissing you has no effect unless you allow it to.

If you feel you need to learn the language, by all means do. But understand that not understanding Yoruba is not a barrier to living in Nigeria. Afterall Yorus is just one of many languages. Anyone who seriously wished to communicate must learn ENGLISH, because that is our common language. As long as you can speak the prime language you are cool.

It will be nice to be able to communicate with members of your tribe though, if only to get some of the tribalistic perks that we give each other here, if you're Igbo, speak igbo so u can rol with the igbo clan, etc etc etc.

You want to cure this disease of kids not speaking your language, then get married to someone from your ethnic group. Believe me, your kids will learn, if you the parents want them to learn. If you feel it is an inferior language to English, then that one na your own o. I speak Yoruba and even though I mix it up with English, you no fit sell me in Yoruba.

For the Nigerians in Nigeria that can't speak their native language, shame on you.

why?

That a child cannot speak his/her native tongue is not the child's fault. Many parents are too be blamed for this. The strongest link you have to your culture is your language once you loose that it becomes hard to preserve the culture.
One of my cousins brought the child to my place one day and my mum was conversing with the child in Yoruba. The poor boy could not understand a single word. My cousin told my mum "oh we don't speak Yoruba to him, we want him to be able to express himself very well in English". I thought that was the most stupid thing I've ever heard. My mum God bless her till today refuses to converse with the child in English. Now he understands Yoruba and can say few phrases in Yoruba.
Another thing, once my friends and I were at the school grill and this Yoruba man walked in and I said "oju ti o ri yin gbo". One Yoruba boy turned to me and said "what! I thought you were ajebo but you must be ajepaki for you to  understand Yoruba that much"
The thing is some refuse to teach their kids Yoruba because they think; 1) it will mess up their English (that's bullshit) and 2) it is uncool - apparently to some it shows you are from the upper echelon of the society ( too me that shows your ignorance)

my dear.

YORUBAS will give more privileges and respect to a YORUBA that speaks english like a white man.

In fact, they will (hilariously) begin to imitate his accent when speaking to him.

Explain how a desire to improve the chances of your child in a prejudiced world is 'ignorance'.

Being able to speak Yoruba doesn't stop you from being articulate and eloquent. That is what people respect and not your inability to speak Yoruba.

Trully, you can say that over and over again. Mehn, do I just love the way you put your last post. Whether you speak queens English or American English or whatever bull crap english, if you don't carry your self with respect, no man, white, black, pink, brown, will respect you. It got nothing to do with your ability or inability to speak your native language.

And to those that think because I understand and speak Yoruba that I am Ajepaki, make them continue to think so. Na them sabi.

And to those that think because I understand and speak Yoruba that I am Ajepaki, make them continue to think so. Na them sabi.

In other words, you recognise that there is a problem, but choose to ignore it because you personally disagree with the collective.

Brilliant.

Being able to speak Yoruba doesn't stop you from being articulate and eloquent. That is what people respect and not your inability to speak Yoruba.

True. Nothing would be better than being able to speak the queen's English and Lagbaja's Yoruba simultaneously. However most people can only speak one language perfectly, and will speak the rest with an accent. The OP was talking about a couple who would rather their child spoke English perfectly and Yoruba with an accent, IF it turned out that he/she would be unable to 'tongue-twist' later.

Its called playing safe. Hardly what I would call Ignorant.

Stopping your child from learning Yoruba won't stop the child from having an accent, The type of accent you develop depends on the enviroment you grow up in?.

The essence of language is communication. There are Americans who can't speak English, but it doesn't stop them being American. So what is the point of this thread?

trully:

Stopping your child from learning Yoruba won't stop the child from having an accent, The type of accent you develop depends on the enviroment you grow up in?.

No.

It depends on usage.

The more you speak in a particular accent, the more it grows on you.

When forced to use an accent in order to make yourself heard, you will adopt that accent.

Speaking yoruba properly will require you to lose your english accent. Soon, you will adopt Yoruba pronunciations of English words.

If you speak yoruba exclusively for long enough, you will begin to adapt yoruba grammatical/lexical constructions to your spoken english.

I believe the vernacular description of this activity is 'shelling'

And having a Yoruba accent, while speaking English is bad? Hmmm, Dak. don't forget that we all have an accent. In the US, peeps from the North go to the South and they complain about the way the southerners talk and vice versa. Mind you, all they speak is English.

See, this accent thing, has nothing to do with your native language. It is all in your head and mostly Nigerians. Trying to sound like something you are not, will not make you better than the next person.

Speak simple and correct English. Speak clear enough for people to understand you. Don't rush your words. Even with an accent, follow these simple rules and everyone that need to listen to you, will get you.

From your post about me worrying about what others think, I was just referencing what Trully typed before that. But I'll say it again, if by me speaking and having an accent, other than the American accent makes me Ajepaki, then na u sabi. 

Ok the kids that grew up not speaking Yoruba. but grew up in Nigeria do they  not end up developing regional accents?. I grew up speaking Yourba and Engliish, the guy who called me ajepaki only knows 2 yrouba words - oriope and bawoni. In the US, people who listen to both of us, to them we sound alike. We both speak with "an accent". (by the way we both pronounce the "H" something yorubas do not usually pronouce). Conscious effort on your part can reduce your regional accent or being around people that speak differently can have an effect on your accent.  Your child not speaking Yoruba won't do anything for the child in as much as people around him still speak with "accent".

theopops:

And having a Yoruba accent, while speaking English is bad? Hmmm, Dak. don't forget that we all have an accent. In the US, peeps from the North go to the South and they complain about the way the southerners talk and vice versa. Mind you, all they speak is English.

That's right. And there are Americans who claim they can't understand when someone with a British accent is talking. They all still speak English but with different accents due to the region in  which they grew up in.[quote][/quote]

You know what? You're right. I stand corrected. Pronunciation of words and command of the language are 2 different things.

However, I still disagree with the OP on the subject of ignorance. English as a first language will server the boy better than Yoruba- for reasons of vocabulary and lexical flair.

Purposefully forcing the boy to embrace English as a first language will make it more likely that correct grammatical construction comes naturally to him.

Only fellow yorubas will notice your weak command of our language. For the record, most of us speak 'broken' Yoruba, I hope you are aware of that.

I'm still waiting for someone to give me a real reason for the existence of the Yoruba language that isnt sentimentally charged. Personally, I believe that any language that does not play host to a rich written tradition has outlived its usefulness and should be dispensed with in the interest of literacy.

Yoruba traditions are spoken traditions. They are easily transferred to other languages.

The beauty of a culture lies in its language and the heart of a culture is it's language. You lose the language you might as well consider the culture lost.  It's bad enough most of us speak broken Yoruba. We are fast losing our poetry, our incantations and our arts.


By the way I never said English should not be the first language. My point is that it doesn't have to be the only language.

I disagree.

A beautiful culture only has historical value. If it is not relevant to modern life it should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Afterall you do not sacrifice your children to shango anymore, do you? Nor do you slice off your clitoris to ensure your fidelity to your husband.

There are so many ways this discussion can go, so I'll just let it go. Dak., if you want to kill the culture, go ahead and kill it within your family. Believe me, some of us love the Yoruba culture too much. It ain't going anyway anytime soon.

Parents really do go out of their way to prevent their children from speaking their language especially in Nigeria. Maybe they think it makes their family look educated or high class i really don't understand. My primary school teacher actually told my dad not to speak yoruba around the house so as not to conflict with our english but i'm so glad my dad did not listen to him/her. I have a lot of friends that are quite grown and are trying to start speaking the language (I think they now understand the advantages). As someone said earlier so many other cultures keep their language and culture even to the 3rd generation but naijas r so quick to dispose of theirs. Even if i raise my children in the U.S. or wherever i'll def make sure they understand and speak yoruba as much as they can. Your culture is def one thing u have as an advantage over other people

dakmanzero:



I'm still waiting for someone to give me a real reason for the existence of the Yoruba language that isnt sentimentally charged.

dakmanzero link=topic=9168.msg582811#msg582811 date=1156789169:

I disagree.

A beautiful culture only has historical value. If it is not relevant to modern life it should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Afterall you do not sacrifice your children to shango anymore, do you? Nor do you slice off your clitoris to ensure your fidelity to your husband.

I didn't even read all these comments b4. You need a reason for the existence of a culture That's ridiculous (I'm really sorry to say). You sound intelligent but that doesn't make much sense languages and cultures evolve so even if we speak "broken yoruba" or whatever its existence still holds so much value to us. So where would it stop?? Lets keep up with the world and get rid of our way of dressing too Our food Well its not pants and shirts so lets toss it. Our food contains too much carbohydrate and it smells around people lets stop eating it. Embrace your culture and make other people love it so much they want to learn about you. First Step to Major Global Recognition

I'm sorry if my comments offend you. However I did mention earlier that I have not heard any argument *for* the preservation of our culture (read: I am Yoruba, for what thats' worth) that is not rooted in sentiment.

I understand that you love your culture. But love is a sentiment. Kindly provide a practical use for our culture in the modern world, and I will accept your point and probably be a better person for it.

Also, global recognition is nothing if it is negative. Our culture has not been allowed to develop with the times, and as such it appears backward and primitive. If we are globally recognised based on crude, awful pottery and wild savage dances you can only imagine what image will accompany that recognition.

To the post above mine, Dude u're not making much sense. At all. It is only in Nigeria that our own culture is not appreciated by our people. Go elsewhere then u'll under stand that preservation for ones culture goes waaay beyond sentiments. Do u know what an Identity is?

No, it is not only in Nigeria that our own culture is not appreciated by our own people.

Yes, I do know what an Identity is, and one based on a language that has no real modern benefits, and an outdated value system that denigrates women and is based on religions that endorse human sacrifice is definitely at variance with the current Nigerian Identity.

I also do understand that singlemindedly holding on to such supposed 'culture' at the expense of common sense is a root cause of the tribalism that is holding our country back indefinitely.

Nigeria is not the only country that is composed of a multi-ethnic population. Sample each of the succesful examples of such a country and tell me one where each ethnic group holds on to an ancient form of its 'culture' at the expense of the de-facto 'National' Identity.

I speak Yoruba strictly to communicate with the illiterate. If you can speak English I will not speak to you in Yoruba. If you spak to me in Yoruba I will respond in English. I have nothing to hide from my Igbo and midwestern brothers and sisters that may be nearby.

Finally, I *am* making sense. I may however be saying something that you do not agree with. Talking nonsense and spreading falsehood are two different things. If you believe what I have to say is false, prove me wrong with intelligent discourse rather than uleashing sentimental outbursts that serve to reinforce my point.

dakmanzero:



Yes, I do know what an Identity is, and one based on a language that has no real modern benefits, and an outdated value system that denigrates women and is based on religions that endorse human sacrifice is definitely at variance with the current Nigerian Identity.


.

Why do u keep bringing up the negative aspect of the culture. I was brought up in a YORUBA way of life (u can call that culture too). Which means I was taught how to relate to my elders, my age mates, and my juniors never was I taught about sacrifies or to disrespect women. I don't know where you live but take a look at the way some American kids live, u can't do anything but to feel sorry for them. Our culture teaches us obedience, discipline, and a host of other positive qualities. Even the so-called modern world used to do the same acts you accuse our culture of doing. Wrestling with lions for sport (wow!!! that is so civilized). Exposure and knowledge is what makes people open their eyes to some of these acts and reduce them which is even happening in our own culture. No sentiments here, our culture helps shape the kind of ppl we are which is enough reason for its preservation and growth.

Sorry if I only mentioned negative aspects of the culture. However the extreme nature of those negative aspects serve only to show how the culture has refused to evolve, unlike the others you allude to.

There is a way of life we have in Nigeria that is unique to us. However, we refuse to call it our culture, instead clinging to these relics of a past age, taking the aspects we like and pretending the other aspects don't exist, and claiming that our day-to-day life is not our 'culture'. If we spend more than 90% of our life living a faceless, nameless 'culture' that is neither our own nor anothyer man's own, aren't we guilty of an even worse Identity sin than those who choose to reject a bunch of primitive notions that we are not even sure are the true equivalent of the culture we are so determined not to lose?


I do not advocate losing our Identity.

Far from it.

I advocate that we GAIN an identity, and stop pretending we live in the 19th century.

Speaking a tribal language that has no international recognition and close to zero literary presence is hardly what I would call cultural Identity.

If Nigeria were to adopt an indegenous language, I would learn and speak it proudly. For now, the only indigenous language we have is English, so I speak *that* proudly and endeavour to learn it properly.

I am Nigerian first and Yoruba second. (or third, if you count my dual citizenship)