....

Ellexy:
Is there anywhere in the world where scoring an offside goal is a crime or punishable with life imprisonment?

Don't mind them. Let them keep trivializing the issue.

We're talking about a life-and-death issue, they're mentioning offside rules in football.

Ellexy:
Is there anywhere in the world where scoring an offside goal is a crime or punishable with life imprisonment?

Times change and with it, what is considered right or wrong...

patrickmuf:
Times change and with it, what is considered right or wrong...

Correct on all counts. Morality cannot be independent of anyone's thoughts. It is a human invention and not some law of nature. Humans have evolved and this evolution has led to redefining what is good and what is bad. Absolute moral cannot exist since as I have stated before, circumstances change how a person will act.

Lovely finish from Redmond.

patrickmuf:
Times change and with it, what is considered right or wrong...

But a child doesn't change with time. A child then, a child now. Simple.

A001:

Don't mind them. Let them keep trivializing the issue.

We're talking about a life-and-death issue, they're mentioning offside rules in football.

Azin that comparison weak me. We are talking of crime, they talking offside for football

Liverpool go still find way win this game

So the nonsense Discourse never ends? Thank God Don J ain't a northern Muslim, he would have become deputy Ameer of Bokoharam.

To be honest, Don J seems an Extremist. He is not ready to debate logically, rather wanna force his opinions as facts on everyone.

He's also doing everything to psychologically torturing Amoto and rest Muslims on this Platform till they are so emotional and lose their sanity.... simply for I told you so.

Ain't you Guys tired? Blueraydick, Ibime, Jodera, Patrickmuf, Roland17, Raumdeuter argued with sense. They are obviously exposed and have read a lot.

So surprise Ibime understands wahabism (salafism) to some extent. So surprise Raumdeuter understands there is wide difference between Sunni and Shia'h Muslims.

Don J, for your Information, Shi'ah Muslims don't believe in Hadith Bukhari and Hadith Muslim. Also they hate Nana Aisha with passion, same as first 3 Caliphs.

Based on Shia'h Muslims Hadiths. Prophet Muhammad didn't marry Aisha at age 9, rather at a very matured age. If you wanna argue Religion, you need to fully understand it.

Islam has multiple Sects as Christianity. Wahabi (Salafi), Shi'a, Sunni, Ahmadiya and so on. Take your time to study and understand the teachings of each Sect before attacking all generally.

Mind you, no where in the Qur'an it's mentioned that prophet Muhammad married Aisha at 9yrs old. If there is, Kindly share it for us to read and learn from.

The Argument seems endless and pointless. Let's go back to football matters ffs! Let's bring back SANITY to this Section of Nairaland.

A001:


Even if an anti-human or barbaric act is legal or lawful (based on certain religious laws), that doesn't make it right or good.

.

It's Society that determines what is good and right from bad. Morality is an human invention.

BlueMann:
Lovely finish from Redmond.

Liverpool back level

Kholiwe:

It's Society that determines what is good and right from bad. Morality is an human invention.

Yes, morality is a human invention, but religion is as well.

But you, religious people, don't want to accept the simple fact that your religion (just like all aspects or concepts humans use or practice every day) is man-made.

There's nothing divine in or about life.

Like I said in the morning, acts like rape, child marriage, stealing, slavery were as bad in ancient times as they're in modern times.

There has never been a point in history where all the cultures in the world agreed on a universal standard for what is right and what is wrong.

Right and wrong are always subjective and relative with different perspectives going from one culture, species, country, or the other.

And as human species (who are sentient and civilized), child marriage and rape are evil. We, as humans, are endowed with higher intellect compared with lesser animals, and as a species, our needs are identical.

Hence, even though good and bad are relative and subjective; an average human (regardless of race, age or gender) would frown at an act that has adverse effects on their health and well-being and appreciate a deed that impacts their life positively.

While there are grey areas when it comes to right and wrong, I don't see how that applies to rape, slavery, child marriage, ritual killing.

Even in Muhammad's time, some people criticized child marriage and rape, just like in modern times, animal rights activists condemn killing of animals for food even though the majority of us presently consume organic meat.

When slavery and slave-trading were at the peak in Asia, Europe, and Africa, some people condemned the practice.

Slave abolitionism, agnosticism, atheism, etc, are as old as slavery, gnosticism, theism, etc.

All good and bad acts done in human history (whether by the majority or minority) have their supporters and their critics.

A001:

Yes, morality is a human invention, but religion is as well.

But you, religious people, don't want to accept the simple fact that your religion (just all aspects or concepts humans use or practice every day) is man-made.

There's nothing divine in or about life.

Like I said in the morning, acts like rape, child marriage, stealing, slavery were as bad in ancient times as they're in modern times.

It's Society that determines what is bad and Good or right. Back then those things you listed were not regarded as bad to those societies.

Kholiwe:

It's Society that determines what is bad and Good. Back then those things you listed was not regarded as bad to those societies.

You're generalizing to suit your narrative. Religious people are wont to twisting historical facts to suit their parochial agenda.

A001:



There has never been a point in history where all the cultures in the world agreed on a universal standard for what is right and what is wrong.

Right and wrong are always subjective and relative with different perspectives going from one culture, species, country, or the other.

And as human species (who are sentient and civilized), child marriage and rape are evil. We, as humans, are endowed with higher intellect compared with lesser animals, and as a species, our needs are identical.

Hence, even though good and bad are relative and subjective; an average human (regardless of race, age or gender) would frown at an act that has adverse effects on their health and well-being and appreciate a deed that impacts their life positively. .

Since you agreed their is no universal agreement on what is right and wrong then you can't call anything Evil. Evil is a man made concept that can change over time as well. At the bold that's your personal opinion which I don't agree with.

A001:

You're generalizing to suit your narrative. Religious people are wont to twisting historical facts to suit their parochial agenda.

Those things were practically legal during those days. Like I said before it's Society that determines what's wrong or right. Hundred of years from now what was seen as right can be regarded as wrong and vice versa.

Kholiwe:

Since you agreed their is no universal agreement on what is right and wrong then you can't call anything Evil. Evil is a man made concept that can change over time as well. At the bold that's your personal opinion which I don't agree with.

It's reality. You don't have to agree with it.

I'm sure tomorrow when certain events happen that don't augur well for your religion or interests, you'll adopt another standard to justify your desires.

A religionist like you has different standards for analysing issues, and your self-interest is what determines the particular standard you choose at any point in time, not the truth or advocating what's right.

Hypocritical should be a synonym for religious.

A001:

You're generalizing to suit your narrative. Religious people are wont to twisting historical facts to suit their parochial agenda.

Most of the things we frown at these days were sometimes ordered by God in the bible

E.g when they go to war, they were given order to commit mass murder, rape, looting, catch slaves and anyone who refused to do this was dealt with

No belief system holy pass sha!!

A001:

Hypocritical should be a synonym for religious.

Now we can agree on something. Religion, Politics even sport sef. Na hypocrisy, the same thing you want to get a penalty for when its your team, you trivialize it when its the opponent

Kholiwe:

Those things were practically legal during those days. Like I said before it's Society that determines what's wrong or right. Hundred of years from now what was seen as right can be regarded as wrong and vice versa.

Legal where? Specify the actual place. The world is wide, not a small village.

Any god of religion started as a local god, whether it's Allah or Jehovah. And even though they're more popular these days due to colonialism, wars, invasions, trading, they're still local gods.

A001:

It's reality. You don't have to agree with it.

I'm sure tomorrow when certain events happen that don't augur well for your religion or interests, you'll adopt another standard to justify your desires.

A religionist like you has different standards for analysing issues, and your self-interest is what determines the particular standard you choose at any point in time, not the truth or advocating what's right.

Hypocritical should be a synonym for religious.

There's no realty involved in any of your post. Reality is accepting the fact that what is right and wrong is determined by the Society in which one lives in. Nothing is generally bad or good. Go and read more about moral relativism

raumdeuter:


Most of the things we frown at these days were sometimes ordered by God in the bible

E.g when they go to war, they were given order to commit mass murder, rape, looting, catch slaves and anyone who refused to do this was dealt with

No belief system holy pass sha!!

Ordered by God . That's the main problem. And it's sad, people still have this caveman mentality in modern times.

Reason should supersede following so-called God's orders.

A001:

Legal where? Specify the actual place. The world is wide, not a small village.

Any god of religion started as a local god, whether it's Allah or Jehovah. And even though they're more popular these days due to colonialism, wars, invasions, trading, they're still local gods.

All those things you listed previously were legal and general accepted as the Norm/right thing to do in those communities and societies true or false?

Kholiwe:

There's no realty involved in any of your post. Reality is accepting the fact that what is right and wrong is determined by the Society in which one lives in. Nothing is generally bad or good. Go and read more about moral relativism

Moral relativism won't make rape, child marriage, slavery, ritual killing good acts.

Just onto your beliefs while I hold onto reason and my philosophy.

But be careful about what you advocate so that the evil you condone today doesn't come back to haunt you in the future.

A001:

Ordered by God . That's the main problem. And it's sad, people still have this caveman mentality in modern times.

Reason should supersede following so-called God's orders.

Human reason is limited, fallible, and conjectural.

A001:

Moral relativism won't make rape, child marriage, slavery, ritual killing good acts.

Just onto your beliefs while I hold onto reason and my philosophy.

But be careful about what you advocate so that the evil you condone today doesn't come back to haunt you in the future.

What makes you the judge of good acts? There's no such thing as objective "right" or "wrong", just people's opinions. Right and wrong is purely subjective. Killing an enemy is right, but wrong if you are that enemy.

Rape and murder is only wrong, objectively now, because it clearly doesn’t work in the kind of society we are trying to live in. That is why, and the only why. The society determine what is wrong or right. Even rape and murder have not been considered wrong by all societies throughout all history. In many periods these were completely acceptable activities depending on who the victim was. All morality and ethics, which define "right" and "wrong," are human-made and vary by group, culture, time, and place.

Kholiwe:

Human reason is limited, fallible, and conjectural.

Yes, that's true.

You only need to read your Bible/Qur'an critically to see that your god, with his human-like traits, is also limited and fallible.

In modern times, if not for civilization and exposure of the human race, a number of great people and scientists would have easily been deified and worshipped as God like the past humans worshipped as God today in religions were deified in the past (dark age).

But humans are wiser and more enlightened now; some are even wiser than the gods of religion.

A001:

Yes, that's true.

Since you agree Human reason is limited, fallible, and conjectural then you agree it cannot be trusted as well.

Please guys. Ejor. Biko.. don allah..

Enough of this religious arguments. It's difficult trying to skip the exchanges.. I am tired..

Useless Southampton... Smh

...