It has always been a fact from the scriptures that when ever servants of Yahweh and his son Yeshua(Jesus) were enabled to see through into the heavens,or when visions are given to them of God in his lofty position,the persons they only see are Yahweh(almighty God) and his son Jesus Christ standing @ his right hand...

.where is the holy spirit

When stephen was about dying he gazed up into heaven and he saw just 2 persons,daniel had this vision too and only saw Yahweh and Jesus(Son of man),apostle paul too,and finally John in revelations also could percieve Jesus standing @ d right hand of his Father(Yahweh),and this revelation was given to him by Jesus himself....

But in all of these visions seen by various servants of God,none of them ever saw the holy spirit who is purportedly suppose to be part of the trinity God-head..

Why is the holy spirit never in that picture to form the tri-une formular..mayb by standing @ d left hand of Yahweh or mayb @ the back of Him?

These whole scene got me wondering if actually the holy spirit is realy a person..

Or mayb the holy spirit keeps himself absent when ever visions of heaven are seen by servants of God

Trinitarians I want ur answers from d bible please!!!!......

Thanks!!!

Ijawkid,
sorry I had to hide your comment as well to clean the thread. Please carry on.

Logicmind,
if you're reading this you know why you've been banned. I've tried to be patient with you but you've refused so congrats you're the first poster to be banned from this section in a very long time. Your ban is for 24hrs. Pls come back and post like the other well-behaved atheists here. Even logicboy with his brash nature is getting along fine with others now.

holyspirit is the spirit of GOD!

@jesoul.....job well done....hw u doing??


@achi....how do u mean??please explain??

U mean its nt a seperate person from Yahweh??

Okay bro. I promised I will help you. I remembered I said so sometimes ago and I will still do. Okay. Very simple now cos you raised many questions but going straight to the point for now but will continue if need arises.

The Holy Spirit like I told you before is the one working "in or within" every believers in this present age/time till Jesus returns.

You issue is, you want to fathom God. Well, you can truly know God BUT you cannot FULLY know God. God is more than your understand or the capacity of your understanding. However, I admire your quest for knowledge. Remember God is NOT man that is limited to time, place and ability. God is everywhere even as we speak. So also, God can reproduce in EVERYONE that is born again. This is a great mystery.

I will answer your questions more incase you are still not clear. Okay.

Goshen welcome my bro....

Regarding my post what's ur point??

Why isn't d holy spirit in that picture

Now Jesus is in heaven,standing @ the right hand of his Father and God Yahweh,but the holy spirit is never there....

Where is He or it??

Now this question is technical.....

D trinity is a doctrine that must be explained completely by its originators...

I always insist it was borrowed frm paganism of which it is as history tells us and as d bible tells us,but u guys argue that no it has always existed....

So I need a full explanation as to why the holy spirit is never in that picture or in those visions to affirm a tri-une God-head.....

I knw we can't fully understand all of Gods work,but d last thing God will do is confuse us about or hide his real identity....

That is why he gave his personal name to moses to tell d isrealites and that name is to last to times indefinite.......

And please employ d scriptures to explain why d holy spirit is never seen as a person in d heavens.....

If you had read these verses below, you should have cleared up things and come to the conclusion that he is a person.

1-John 14:26 "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

2-John 16:7 "But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." NOTE: the counselor is referred as the holy spirit

@jmoore...so is that d reason why d holy spirit shuld be absent from those visions to confirm the triune-affair


If there has to be any evidence of these 3 persons(Gods) as d case mayb,those visions shuld have shown it...

And again when ever d bible speaks of headship,let's say like a hierarchy,d holy spirit is never mentioned...

Why?

Let's take for example 1 corinthians 11:3

Yahweh is head of Christ
Christ is head of man
Man is head of woman

Where is d holy spirit in that set up??

Who is d head of d holy spirit or who is headed by d holy spirit??

@ijawkid,the spirit is not meant to seeing,you can only feel his presence.


the likes of Bro Goshen38 will do more justics to the post.

tanks

You must know that God is a UNITY of three persons - Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They are three distinct persons acting in unity.

1- Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit... Mt 28.19 (why was the holy spirit included here?)

2-Luke 3.21-22 records that Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit were all three present at the same event, at one and the same time. The event was the Baptism of Jesus

3-I (the Father) have put My Spirit (the Holy Spirit) upon Him (the Son); He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. Isa 42.1b

It is wrong to make your conclusion based on few accounts of visions. All I have posted confirms trinity.

@jmoore...u still don't get d point do u??

During Jesus baptism d holy spirit that fell on Jesus was it a person

The trinity teaches 3 distinct persons..right??

It is true d holy spirit was poured on Jesus,but was that dove a person just as Yahweh and Jesus are

Are u trying to get my point??

Now those revelations seen by Gods servant definitly tells us that 2 persons are always seen....

Where is d 3rd person

A dove is not a person is it??

U can't tell me that the revelation david sang in his psalms,daniels vision,stephens vision and Johns vision are not enough to back up the questions I'm asking?


Where is d holy spirit in that arrangement??


The matthew 28 u quoted doesn't explain d trinity...it only shows how we should acknowledge the role the Father,his son,and d holy spirit plays in ones dedication to Yahweh......

@ijawkid, you are the one that don't believe in hell, right? So, I am not surprised on your doubts on trinity.

ijawkid: @jmoore...u still don't get d point do u??

During Jesus baptism d holy spirit that fell on Jesus was it a person

The trinity teaches 3 distinct persons..right??

It is true d holy spirit was poured on Jesus,but was that dove a person just as Yahweh and Jesus are

Which dove? Which dove are you talking about
Luke 3:22 "and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Did you not learn simile in school? The holy spirit is not a dove, it was the way that he descended on Jesus that was compared to that of a dove's landing. That you run like a cheetah does not mean you are cheetah.

ijawkid:

Now those revelations seen by Gods servant definitly tells us that 2 persons are always seen....

Where is d 3rd person

U can't tell me that the revelation david sang in his psalms,daniels vision,stephens vision and Johns vision are not enough to back up the questions I'm asking?

Where is d holy spirit in that arrangement??

From Stephen's statement,the inference is that Jesus is at the place of POWER and APPROVAL in God. The "right hand" is the place of honor (1Kng.2:19; Matt.20:21-23; cf. Matt.25:33-34; 26:64),

ijawkid:

The matthew 28 u quoted doesn't explain d trinity...it only shows how we should acknowledge the role the Father,his son,and d holy spirit plays in ones dedication to Yahweh......

acknowledgment is a form of worship
2 Corinthians 13:14 " May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."

And Luke 3.21-22 and Isaiah 42.1b that I gave doesn't mean anything to you?


you can get more on http://www.theholyspirit.com/HolySpiritTrinity.asp

You can choose to believe whatever you like.

@ ijawkid,

Please, kindly take your time to read my response slowly and digest/understand it. Okay.

Now I get what your question is pointing to. Let me answer it using couple of verses from the scriptures. First, I have told you that the word, Trinity does not appear in the bible just like many word that don't appear in the bible but theologians give such terms to explain the concept. Okay.

Now, you want to know why the men of God that saw visions never saw the picture of the Holy Spirit to prove the trinity. This is where you are wrong. How do you think these Prophets or Servants of God who THROUGH THE SAME SPIRIT WILL SEE THE HOLY SPIRIT. Calm down let me help answer your question. It is the same Spirit you are asking why the dont see that is Showing the revelation to them. Hence, the same Holy Spirit is "in or within" them to show whatever vision they might have seen. As/If you are born again, the Holy Spirit can take you into the heavenly realm to show you vision. If the same Spirit, "in or within or through" you is showing the vision, kindly ask yourself how you can see the same Spirit. The same way/thing in the event of the servants of God who saw visions. The Spirit in/within/through working and that Spirit CANNOT MAKE THE PROPHETS SEE ITSELF, SAME SPIRIT. Do you understand now? Look at these verses:

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:9-10

Here, the above verses makes it clear that it is the Holy Spirit that reveals/shows the things of God to us. Hence, we MUST have that same Spirit "in us or come upon us or working within us" in order to do this revealing or revelation. Let us put this explanation to test to see if it works and if it can bear the truth. You mentioned many servants of God seeing vision, I will use one of them to show you what am talking about. I will use Apostle John. You remember He is one of the Apostles who had received the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26 nkjv

So, John ALREADY HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKING WITHIN HIM OR IN HIM AND THROUGH HIM AS THIS TIME right from the day of Pentecost. Okay

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified [it] by His angel to His servant John,

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send [it] to the seven churches which are in Asia: [fn] to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea." Rev 1:1,10-11 nkjv

Here we see John "IN THE SPIRIT" getting revelation for the same Spirit as I explain above is with him/in/working withing him AT THIS PRESENT TIME to show him "WHAT YOU SEE". If the Spirit is in them and showing or reveling something to them. It is reasonable to say they Spirit CANNOT SHOW THESE MEN OF GOD Himself/Itself. I hope this answers you kweshun. If not, ask again.

Besides, If you are created in the image and likeness of God as a man. God even manifested the trinity in man. You as a man is a spirit or soul (i mean the REAL you is NOT your flesh/body), you have a mind and you live in a house called body/flesh. So you are a tripartite being in nature. If God can manifest this in man, how much more God Almighty. Just that the bible of says is ONE but manifest in three distinct persons.....I would have said God is MORE than manifesting in three persons. Think of it this way, If God, THROUGH the Holy Spirit can INDWELL MORE THAN ONE APOSTLES ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST AND IS STILL INDWELLING MANY BELIEVERS SINCE THEN, are we then limiting God to ONLY THREE PERSONS? .

This is just by the way....not part of the topic anyway,lolz.

@goshen...my bro u also got it wrong...

If d holy spirit gave those prophets d visions and so they shuldnt be able to see d holyspirit when ever that vision of heaven is given to them then u got it real wrong...
You think that spirit is confined to a place or space

Let me ask u this..

Was it not Jesus who gave John the revelations he saw and penned down??

But how come was john still able to see Jesus standing close to Yahweh??
And where was d holy spirit

Remember u guys have d full job to show d holy spirit is much as a person as Yahweh and Jesus is to complete d trinity formula...

And these visions are showing us something contrary.....

Don't blame me for asking these questions always...

I am so sure like I told u that d trinity was adopted in d 3rd century and I'm so sure of its source...

And I know some of d verses of d scriptures has been toyed with over time to enforce d trinity...

So many faults wit d dogma....

And so many have to resolve to using science or spirit,soul and body like u do to explain it..lol


But remember whenever 1 dies,he dies along with all the 3 things u have said make up a man...both his soul,body and spirit or thoughts die completely..

But when Jesus died,Yahweh was very much still alife....infact he was the one who ressurected Jesus if not Jesus would have stayed in d grave far longer than that...

@jmoore....these questions I ask are questions that if well answered shuld bortress d trinity wahala...

Many have ended up saying its a mystery because ofcus it was formed by we men...


In revelations especially every being in heaven was present....starting from Yahweh himself,Jesus his son,the 7 spirits(angels) standing around the throne of Yahweh,and all the other myriads of angels who praise Yahweh and the Lamb,and also those faithfulls who have died who will rule alongside Jesus as kings and priests.....

Where is d holy spirit the 3rd part of d God-head....
You cant tell me that John missed that part....

The holy spirit is never seen,never....why

Its a person right

@Ijawkid, all the answers you need have be given to you in this thread. No need giving more answers to you if you can't understand the ones I have given.

ijawkid: @goshen...my bro u also got it wrong...

If d holy spirit gave those prophets d visions and so they shuldnt be able to see d holyspirit when ever that vision of heaven is given to them then u got it real wrong...
You think that spirit is confined to a place or space

Let me ask u this..

Was it not Jesus who gave John the revelations he saw and penned down??

But how come was john still able to see Jesus standing close to Yahweh??
And where was d holy spirit

Remember u guys have d full job to show d holy spirit is much as a person as Yahweh and Jesus is to complete d trinity formula...

And these visions are showing us something contrary.....

Don't blame me for asking these questions always...

I am so sure like I told u that d trinity was adopted in d 3rd century and I'm so sure of its source...

And I know some of d verses of d scriptures has been toyed with over time to enforce d trinity...

So many faults wit d dogma....

And so many have to resolve to using science or spirit,soul and body like u do to explain it..lol


But remember whenever 1 dies,he dies along with all the 3 things u have said make up a man...both his soul,body and spirit or thoughts die completely..

But when Jesus died,Yahweh was very much still alife....infact he was the one who ressurected Jesus if not Jesus would have stayed in d grave far longer than that...

Why are you so sure in what other people put down and you decided to throw out other explanations with a closed heart. That is, no matter the evidences put forward, your belief is what you want to believe in. You have not come to know as your post seems to sound, but you have come to refute and make every evidences put before you fake. Before we were born, so many generation had tried to twist and distort the fact, some even with wrong interpretation, but the truth will always stand no matter the trials. Goshen360 had given you a detailed analogy and explanation has recorded in the Bible, you either accept it all live it.And wait until God himself explains to you.

Ijawkid, i am not too sure the kind of explanation you were, or are looking for but i dont think you would get it explained better than Goshen has explained it to you. look at it this way, there are two realms. the physical and spiritual realm. these two realms must be in constant communication with each other. they must be in sync with each other because this is how God directs things in the physical realm. and what does God sync with in the physical realm to direct things ? he syncs in with the spirit that he created in you. the good side of the spirit in every human being is what is called the holy spirit. the bad side is the evil spirit. God needs people who will suppress their evil spirit ( evil desires ) and illuminate their holy spirit. you do this by obeying his laws and studying his words. so now we have God syncing with the holy spirit in men to direct the movie he has going on earth. now this movie must not be halted. you need constant electricity. you dont want nepa to strike or the movie will be halted, so what does he need ? a standby generator. the standby generator is the messiah. there is a huge possibility that the connection he has going by syncing in with the holy spirit in men may be cut off if man decides to shut off his holy spirit and start indulging his evil spirit. when this happens, the movie done halt be dat now. so he does it in a way that even if you shut off the grid by indulging your evil side, he will still be connected to you. ( standby generator ) ( christ is the standby generator ). this he did by sending Jesus to die for your sins. shed his blood for your sins. why blood shed ? LEVITICUS 17 VS 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. so basically your sins are automatically atoned for even when you sin and hence he can sync into you 24 7 even if you are being evil. so there you have it. the trinity is just a tri-part complete circle of uninterrupted communication between the spiritual and physical realm so as to enable uninterrupted syncing which then enables the lord to continue to direct his movie on earth. the earth is his footstool. the earth is his movie set and he is the director. we are the actors. the tripart is the lord, Jesus and the holy spirit