For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians - Religion - Nairaland
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| For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 4:15pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
1. Who do you say Jesus is?a man or a spiritual being 2. When you say Jesus is the son of God. What do you mean 3. Did Jesus exist in heaven before coming to earth. 4. If answer to no 3 is yes, then was Jesus a man while in heaven. |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by Nobody: 4:52pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
There's a reason why it's called FAITH.. You believe that a virgin can give birth, yet doubt the trinity because IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE? Amazing..  5 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by Nobody: 4:59pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
deSika: 1. Who do you say Jesus is?a man or a spiritual being1- JESUS IS BOTH A MAN AND A SPIRITUAL BEING AS ARE YOU 2-SON OF GOD IN THAT HE EMBODIES WHAT GOD STANDS FOR COMPLETELY. 3-YES HE EXISTED BEFORE COMING DOWN TO EARTH AS DID YOU 4-JESUS WAS NOT A MAN WHILE IN HEAVEN JUST AS YOU WERE NOT A MAN WHILE IN THE HEAVENLY REALM.  |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 5:43pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
deSika: 1. Who do you say Jesus is?a man or a spiritual beingA spiritual being like his Father and like the other angels.... deSika: ..He was formed,produced by God...and by virtue of that God is his Father and he is Gods son... deSika:YES... deSika: He was a spirit in heaven...... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by honeychild(f): 5:51pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
musKeeto: There's a reason why it's called FAITH.. If a virgin is artificially Inseminated with an embryo from a test tube, will she give birth? 3 Likes |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 5:58pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
obadiah777:ok 2-SON OF GOD IN THAT HE EMBODIES WHAT GOD STANDS FOR COMPLETELY.ok, does this not make him God. remember you used the word "completely" pls elaborate on the second part "as did you" using scripture ok, so If Jesus has a dual nature why is it difficult for people to accept that he can be both man and God at same time. why do non trintarians keep saying Jesus is a man only and not dual natured |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 6:00pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
musKeeto: There's a reason why it's called FAITH..its seems to me they are not willing to go all the way with their professed faith. 2 Likes |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by Nobody: 6:06pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
deSika: ok1-IF I EMBODY SOMEONE COMPLETELY DOES NOT MEAN I AM THE PERSON. REMEMBER DURING THE PENTECOST ALL THE JEWS EMBODIED EACH OTHER COMPLETELY. EVERYONE IN THE KINGDOM WHEN THE WORDS HAVE BEEN PUT IN OUR INWARDS PART WILL EMBODY EACH OTHER COMPLETELY. DONT MEAN WE ARE THE SAME ENTITIES 2-YOU EXISTED BEFORE COMING DOWN TO EARTH. GENESIS 2 VS 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them <<< YOU WERE MADE HERE AS WELL AS MYSELF 3-JESUS CAN BE A MAN IF HE COMES TO EARTH AND A SPIRIT IN THE HEAVENLY REALM AS CAN YOU AND I |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 6:16pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
ijawkid:ok so he was not a man while on earth? so can i say that everything that God formed and created is God's son. the earth was also created by God is it also Gods son. the birds.... i can go on and on.
ok do you agree then that Jesus has a dual nature. and can be said to be 100% man and 100% spiritual being. if he is dual natured why then do you argue that Jesus cannot be man and then God at the same time. remember God is a spiritual being. My point is simple. Jesus has the nature of a man and the nature of God. we then have to align scriptures to see that Jesus' spiritual nature is equal to God 1 Like |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 6:24pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
deSika: ok so he was not a man while on earth?He was a man while on earth.....100 percent man like adam.......but perfect...... deSika:Beings bro...... Persons....... Starting from Jesus,to the angels and to man........ deSika: Jesus' nature isn't dual the way you think of it....... It was only when Jesus came to the earh through a woman that he became 100 percent man....there was never a time when he was dual.......when he was on earth he was 100 percent man(perfect),when in heaven he is a spirit being like the Father and all other angels........... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 6:50pm On Jun 11, 2013 |
obadiah777:you explanations are not helping you at all. to embody means to give a body to something. the body does nott change the something's nature. If Jesus is an embodiement according to yu. it means he did not change what he is emboding interesting. so yoou existed in heaven. then stayed there for how long before coming to earth. wrong interpretation bro YOU are still saying same thing. Jesus has a dual nature. 1 Like |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 10:06am On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:are you saying Jesus threw away his spiritual being nature while on earth. oh sorry, you didnt say being in your first response. so you are saying we are all sons of God, including the prostitutes, armed robbers. is that what you are saying if someone can have two natures does that not make him dual natured. or what else is the meaning of dual nature if not to have double nature as you have just explained. |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 1:52pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
Bonus question Frosbel and his team seem to think that it does not make sense for God to be triune. So i thought i could ask them this question. Does it make sense that God would say in Genesis 1:26 let us make man in our image and then go on to say in genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image and in verse 29 and God said, Behold, [b] i [/] have given you... My point is this you should not say what you think God should be with your primitive mind but rather you should go for what God has shown himself to be in the bible. Trust me on this. Your mind is too primitive for you to use it to judge between what you think God should be and what the bible says God is. You need the spirit. And when you hear the word of the spirit. Do not harden your hearts. For God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth not in logical reasoning. I rest my case |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 2:06pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: are you saying Jesus threw away his spiritual being nature while on earth.I wouldn't say throw it away.....he was made by God to be lesser than the angels who were spirits so that he could be flesh and blood.........God who made him lower was the same God who exalted him back to being a spirit being after his work was done here on earth.... deSika: Lol........when the armed robbers repent they become his sons.......but by default just as adam was Gods son so are we...... deSika: Like man does not have dual nature....... We are flesh and blood completely...... It is either one is a spirit or flesh and blood....not both..... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 2:08pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: Bonus question What you failed to ask yourself is why isn't God quadruple or decuple??....why is it the triology??....... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 3:26pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:playing around with words huh, you wouldnt say throw it away, what would you then say. Its either he threw it away or he retained it. If you cant say he threw it away then permit me to put it to you that he retained it and if he did not throw it away it means he has a dual nature you seem to put Jesus on the same plane with men. Pls clarify on this. Is this what you are saying. That Jesus is same as every other man and had no distinguishing spirit attributes while on earth . you said Jesus is a spirit being. You also said Jesus was a man while on earth. You cant say Jesus threw away his spirit nature while on earth. Thats dual nature. I dont know why you are denying it. By the way am sure you realise that there are things Jesus did and said that no man has the ability to do or say. So i dont know why you keep equating Jesus with man. And i dont know why you refuse to see Jesus as having the nature of man and the nature of God [remember GOD is a spirit] 1 Like |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 3:40pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: playing around with words huh, you wouldnt say throw it away, what would you then say. Its either he threw it away or he retained it. If you cant say he threw it away then permit me to put it to you that he retained it and if he did not throw it away it means he has a dual natureLmao.....where him throw way am go??....for dust bin??.......God transfered his life into marys womb......and became no longer a spirit but flesh and blood....... If Christ had a dual nature intact he wouldn't have had blood flowing in his veins.... deSika:I said Jesus was a spirit being when in heaven........on earth God made him lower than angels(no more spirit) to be flesh and blood....... But Jesus was perfect....... deSika: Jesus had his memory intact......what Jesus wasn't when on earth was that he was a spirit and then man at the same time...... His Life or existence was not a different one......it was his body that was different...his past and all his memories were intact....... Jesus when on earth was a perfect man...I'm only saying he was flesh and blood...he had to be like his brothers(US)..... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 3:41pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
And you made a good point when you said God is a spirit.....if Jesus on earth could make that statement when everyone could see him and touch him then ofcourse he wasn't the God he was talking about...... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 3:49pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:because its what the bible shows us. But seriously, did you think about those verses. If God could use the word "us" for himself. Does that not send a message to you that this one God may afterall have an "us" personality. But come to think of it. Why would you restrict a God who uses "us" and "i" to refer to himself to just one personality. Are you wiser than God. |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 4:09pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: because its what the bible shows us. From genesis I can't see where it says there 3 persons......I just can't see it...... Why must God be confined to just 3 persons??....why not 10,4 or 7 billion??..... Why 3??......... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by honeychild(f): 4:36pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: because its what the bible shows us. and deSika proceeded to say:'let us make Ogbono soup for us to eat' .....and he proceeded to boil some Ogbono soup can I conclude that deSika has an 'us personality?' |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 4:53pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:by throw away i meant to discard, to cease to have the attributes of spirit being again. But of course you know that Jesus had some spirit being attributes. No man has the ability to know the thoughts of other men but Jesus had this ability. my simple take is that for him to have been a spirit and then become a man makes him dual natured. Unlike man who started out as man from the onset. Do you get me now. By the way he did not discard his spirit nature, becoming a man just entailed that he obeyed what it means to be a man. Dazall at the bolded. You have just said that the same Jesus was a spirit and the same Jesus was a man. What else is dual nature apart from this 1 Like |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 5:02pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:but you saw the words 'us' and 'our' . it seems you have a problem with '3'. But atleast you must agree that there is a 'more than one person' nature about God for him to use the word us. Do you agree if you agree then we can move forward to identifying the personalities in the us from the bible. |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 5:09pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: by throw away i meant to discard, to cease to have the attributes of spirit being again. But of course you know that Jesus had some spirit being attributes. No man has the ability to know the thoughts of other men but Jesus had this ability. My point is Jesus was a 100 percent man when on earth and not some combo..... Having his memory intact doesn't mean he had a dual nature at that moment..... Jesus remained flesh and blood for complete 33 and a half yrs and never did he dematerialize or become a spirit at any instant........ Jesus before his death didn't have that ability like angels do to materialize and dematerialize....hope you now understand when I say Jesus didn't have a dual nature..... Yeah Jesus had that ability to read the minds of people and had his memory intact like I said.... So why do you and your colleagues disagree with Jesus when he says the day and hour he doesn't know but only the Father??..... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 5:12pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: but you saw the words 'us' and 'our' . Naaaa......God remains a spirit and one that can't be seen..... God is one 1 person the Father........ When God says Us he was definitely talking to someone who wasn't a part of himself but someone who is a distinct person(s) from Him...... It could have bEen 1 billion persons.... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 5:23pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
honeychild:lol, lady, thats the problem. You are trying to put God in my shoe. I hope you Know that God wont fit into my shoe. Its undersize. |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 5:38pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:bro for Jesus to have been a spirit and then later become a man. Thats dual nature for Jesus to have had all the unique abilities he had while been a man. For Jesus to have been able to do somethings that are 'unmanlike' just shows dual nature. Its so obvious but i dont know why you keep denying it |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by ijawkid(m): 5:47pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
deSika: bro for Jesus to have been a spirit and then later become a man. Thats dual nature But he wasn't spirit on earth na....abi??...... And you didn't answer the bolded.... |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 5:58pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:i see you have a problem with the no 3. Subsequently i will show you why its 3. At the bolded. Do you realise that God was speaking to personalities that had the ability to create. Now are you trying to say that God is not the only spirit being that has the ability to create. That he was speaking to other spirit beings who had the ability to create. That would mean that God is not the only spirit being that can create. The last time i checked. We have only one creator spirit being who created every other thing (spirit beings and the rest.) so tell me how many spirit beings that have the ability to create do you have apart from God |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 6:12pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
While you are at the above question. Permit me to bring to your notice something you either did not notice or you plainly ignored. Genesis 1:26 says And God said let us make man in our image genesis 1:27 so God created man in his own image. going by what you said about God talking to a different personalities. Did the other personalities refuse to take part in the creation process in verse 27 |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 6:50pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid:. The question is did Jesus at any time have a spirit nature. Yes. Did Jesus at anytime have a human nature. YES. How many natures are there. 2 Its sufficient for me that you agree that Jesus is a spirit and that that same Jesus was a man. If Jesus is a spirit and later became a man, how many nature is that. Added to the fact that he did not discard his spirital attributes while being a man but was able to do and say things that are impossible for men. Its too obvious my friend stop denying it. the bolded part asks why i dont agree with Jesus when he says only his father knows. Thats dual nature. Dual nature does not mean that he would be invisible while walking as a man. Him becoming a man entails that he would follow the laws governing manhood. Him having dual nature entails that he can do what is impossible for man to do. His not knowing if there is any thing like that in the bible is a part of his human nature. |
| Re: For Frosbel, Ijawkid And Other Non Trinitarians by deSika(m): 6:52pm On Jun 12, 2013 |
ijawkid: |
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