Sometimes i wonder if things we read in d bible is just a form of messing with our minds.
Every good and perfect gift comes from above right? God created lucifer but why isn't he a good and perfect gift?
Since God knows the beginning and end, didn't he know lucifer will rebel? If he knew why did He create him?
Was lucifer created just to punish us (humans)?
Why can't lucifer just be destroyed? Sometimes thinking about all this messes my mind up. I get so confused as a Christian sometimes.

First things first. May God and Jesus Christ give you witness in your heart and in your mind of the truth of the Good News i.e. of the Gospel. That is more important than anything.

Second: be warned that a lot of interpretations of the Bible and claims about what the Bible says, even church sermons are not (full) truths. {In a sense some church sermons can be compared to the Midrash ---- not reliable for a considerable part}

Third, you may need to spend more time trying to make sense in your own way of what the Bible is saying.

Finally, the questions you are asking are good questions; some of them have always baffled and will always baffle.

Best wishes

The God of "Christians" for you.
Full of tricks and no treats!
Poor Christians who have nor figured out why their 'GOD' has mot dealt with this 'Lucifer' concept while they continue to perish in 'sin'!
Wretched things!

Gaggi: Sometimes i wonder if things we read in d bible is just a form of messing with our minds.

Every good and perfect gift comes from above right?

God created lucifer but why isn't he a good and perfect gift?

Since God knows the beginning and end, didn't he know lucifer will rebel? If he knew why did He create him?

Was lucifer created just to punish us (humans)?

Why can't lucifer just be destroyed? Sometimes thinking about all this messes my mind up. I get so confused as a Christian sometimes.

@Gaggi

"@Sometimes i wonder if things we read in d bible is just a form of messing with our minds . . ."

- God is not a God of confusion. Stay still and hold your peace

@"Every good and perfect gift comes from above right?"

- That is absolutely correct.

@"Since God knows the beginning and end, didn't he know lucifer will rebel? If he knew why did He create him?"

"Since God knows the beginning and end . . ."
- That is correct too, as God is omniscient.

" . . .didn't he know lucifer will rebel?"
- Also correct as God knew lucifer will rebel too

" . . . If he knew why did He create him?"
- Ah-ha!

- Well that is what is called prerogative;

- a right or privilege attached to the office or position of being GOD

@Was lucifer created just to punish us (humans)?

- No, just as Pharaoh was not created to punish the Israelites neither was lucifer created to punish us (humans)

- Similarly to Pharaoh, lucifer became perverted by turning away from what is right

@Why can't lucifer just be destroyed?

- Make no mistake, lucifer's days are numbered,

- as God is, as it were, following due process

- AND lucifer will be destroyed in due time or course

I usually try to avoid this area of NL cause it gets me into real trouble . But yes i think the church or religion in general messes people up. Look religion to me should be banned it has caused more wars, and division among people than anything else. The church today is more of a business than anything else. I left the church a few years ago my mother thought i became an atheist, but once i explained to her my new views the woman is asking for the same books i read and she herself is asking questions. The truth of the matter is that most of these so called pastors aka businessmen need more prayers for themselves than the members of their congregation. Look I dont go to church and never will again, i choose to use meditation and prayer in my own home to connect to the infinite light of the g-d the creator. Am i an atheist certainly not, I love g-d, but i discovered i dont need the church to justify and measure my level of love and commitment to g-d. Since leaving the church i have grow closer to g-d. You dont need to call yourself a Christian or any other religion to beleive and follow g-d. He lives in your heart, soul and mind. Keep doing good and forget about this church thing.

agiboma:

I usually try to avoid this area of NL cause it gets me into real trouble .

But yes i think the church or religion in general messes people up.

Look religion to me should be banned it has caused more wars, and division among people than anything else.

The church today is more of a business than anything else. I left the church a few years ago my mother thought i became an atheist, but once i explained to her my new views the woman is asking for the same books i read and she herself is asking questions. The truth of the matter is that most of these so called pastors aka businessmen need more prayers for themselves than the members of their congregation. Look I dont go to church and never will again, i choose to use meditation and prayer in my own home to connect to the infinite light of the g-d the creator. Am i an atheist certainly not,

I love g-d, but i discovered i dont need the church to justify and measure my level of love and commitment to g-d.

Since leaving the church i have grow closer to g-d.

You dont need to call yourself a Christian or any other religion to beleive and follow g-d.

He lives in your heart, soul and mind. Keep doing good and forget about this church thing.

@agiboma

Do not be disillusioned by the wrong church

The organised church is different to the organic church

They are synonymous in name only and not the same

However why g_d? What is that about? Has it now come to that? g_d?

Of course the Christian religion is messing with your minds. All you have to do is thoroughly study the doctrine itself, put it under microscope and you will see this quite clearly.

The confusion with GOD comes from christianity rolling 2 entities into one and giving it to you all. There is the fake christian god written about in the bible and there is the REAL GOD that isn't in the bible, has no special son, special people, and belongs to no religion. The attributes of these two entities are devilishly rolled into one and stuck into, shall we say, a third entity and served to you all as the real deal. That is why there is so much confusion in the christian theology that never seems to go away from one who scrutinize it.

All this, in my view, was deliberately constructed into the Christian theology to cause a permanent case of cognitive dissonance in the adherents to make them become dependent on the Christian religion itself. Of course they are screwing with your minds and the sooner you guys realize this, the better for your minds and souls.

The christian religion is like a parasite that does not care about you in any way. It cares not about the sanity of your MIND, your SPIRIT, and your SOUL. It cares only about itself and it's chances of continuing to exist. The religion is like a virus that keeps sucking it's host for sustenance and survival. If you are in it, it sucks you of your essence for it's own sustenance and spits you out once you have nothing more to offer it. And while you are still in it, it plays with your mind with all these subtle mind games installed in it's doctrine to cause confusion in the minds of it's followers. AND THE SAME GOES FOR ISLAM and the likes.

It is all a game, bro. A mind game.

Gaggi: Sometimes i wonder if things we read in d bible is just a form of messing with our minds.
Every good and perfect gift comes from above right? God created lucifer but why isn't he a good and perfect gift?
Since God knows the beginning and end, didn't he know lucifer will rebel? If he knew why did He create him?
Was lucifer created just to punish us (humans)?
Why can't lucifer just be destroyed? Sometimes thinking about all this messes my mind up. I get so confused as a Christian sometimes.

Christianity and other religions are just false. Yes, many religions have good sides but they also have bad sides


-The bible supports slavery both in the Old and new testaments;

Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

-The bible supports sexism

1 Corinthians 11;7
"For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man"




Also, the bible seems to support polygamy and then contradicts itself. Compare King Solomon and Jeseus.

Also the bible seems to support incest (Abraham and Sarah are half bro and sis) then contradict itself

logicboy: Christianity and other religions are just false. Yes, many religions have good sides but they also have bad sides

-The bible supports slavery both in the Old and new testaments;

Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

-The bible supports sexism

1 Corinthians 11;7
"For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man"


Also, the bible seems to support polygamy and then contradicts itself. Compare King Solomon and Jeseus.

Also the bible seems to support incest (Abraham and Sarah are half bro and sis) then contradict itself

@logicboy

If we can stopped being detached

we will notice, it or all, did not start as religion or what not, in the beginning

which is why it or all is coming full circle

where we will return to an original state of things as it was in the beginning

Also the above sentiments, unfortunately, are part of the process or part of the continued and/or forward chain of event(s).

The "bitter pill to swallow" as it were.

as a Muslim,the sins or wrongs,or mistakes humans commit cannot all be attributed to satanic inspiration or the temptation of the devil.the human being have the power to resist the temptation of the devil and also choose to act in a way other than the other way.the Quran makes perfect sense on those and we see that even though the devil tempts,we share the blame either partly or fully sometimes.

Holy Quran 15:42
"My servants – you shall have no authority over any of them, unless it be such as follow you being rebellious (against Me, as you are). "

Holy Quran 91:7-10
"And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it.And inspired it (with conscience of) what is wrong for it and (what is) right for it.,He has succeeded who purifies it,And he has failed who instills it [with corruption]".

KamiLara:

@logicboy

If we can stopped being detached

we will notice, it or all, did not start as religion or what not, in the beginning

which is why it or all is coming full circle

where we will return to an original state of things as it was in the beginning

Also the above sentiments, unfortunately, are part of the process or part of the continued and/or forward chain of event(s).

The "bitter pill to swallow" as it were.

I am guessing that you are saying that life didnt start with religion and will not end with religion. If tat is the case, then I agree

LagosShia: as a Muslim,the sins or wrongs,or mistakes humans commit cannot all be attributed to satanic inspiration or the temptation of the devil.the human being have the power to resist the temptation of the devil and also choose to act in a way other than the other way.the Quran makes perfect sense on those and we see that even though the devil tempts,we share the blame either partly or fully sometimes.

Holy Quran 15:42
"My servants – you shall have no authority over any of them, unless it be such as follow you being rebellious (against Me, as you are). "

Holy Quran 91:7-10
"And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it.And inspired it (with conscience of) what is wrong for it and (what is) right for it.,He has succeeded who purifies it,And he has failed who instills it [with corruption]".

Dont act as if the Koran is any better. Islam and christainity are different branches on the same tree.

Please, you can see my sentiments on Islam here

https://www.nairaland.com/916816/can-islam-really-survive-another/

logicboy:

Dont act as if the Koran is any better. Islam and christainity are different branches on the same tree.

Please, you can see my sentiments on Islam here

https://www.nairaland.com/916816/can-islam-really-survive-another/

the link you presented bears witness to your foolishness.

Enigma: First things first. May God and Jesus Christ give you witness in your heart and in your mind of the truth of the Good News i.e. of the Gospel. That is more important than anything.

Second: be warned that a lot of interpretations of the Bible and claims about what the Bible says, even church sermons are not (full) truths. {In a sense some church sermons can be compared to the Midrash ---- not reliable for a considerable part}

Third, you may need to spend more time trying to make sense in your own way of what the Bible is saying.

Finally, the questions you are asking are good questions; some of them have always baffled and will always baffle.

Best wishes

What are the criteria by which one may know which of the interpretations or sermons of the Bible are 'Full truths' or not?

First, I didn't plan to engage in any debate on this thread but simply to encourage; but ok things hapen and discussions evolve.

Alrighty then! Is this statement accurate or not?

Second: be warned that a lot of interpretations of the Bible and claims about what the Bible says, even church sermons are not (full) truths. {In a sense some church sermons can be compared to the Midrash ---- not reliable for a considerable part}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM2vt2FD5sc

Enigma: First, I didn't plan to engage in any debate on this thread but simply to encourage; but ok things hapen and discussions evolve.

Alrighty then! Is this statement accurate or not?

I'm not disputing it's accuracy. All I asked was what are the criteria by which we will know which interpretations are truth and which aren't.

is the poster really a christian?

Pastor AIO:

I'm not disputing it's accuracy. All I asked was what are the criteria by which we will know which interpretations are truth and which aren't.

I'm glad you do not dispute the accuracy of my statement which I take as meaning you, positively, accept it to be accurate. If not, do clarify.

Anyhoooos, I remember you once wrote the below:

From here https://www.nairaland.com/488643/you-commanding-mornings#6486953

Pastor AIO:
. . . . Don't allow people who preach from their misunderstanding of mistranslations of mistranslations of the bible to lead you astray. . . . .

Obviously you must have used some criteria for this conclusion in which case, shouldn't your own criteria suffice ---- even if only for you?

Enigma:



Obviously you must have used some criteria for this conclusion in which case, shouldn't your own criteria suffice ---- even if only for you?

Of course I have my own criteria, however I'm wondering if there is a common criteria. Or is this matter one of private interpretation? Would you say that there is a common criteria by which christians as a body may know correct interpretations from incorrect ones?

^^^ In your experience, are there common criteria? Would you accept anything put forward as common criteria?

I remember a chap putting on forward some criteria for interpreting the Bible which led to some rather interesting discussions.


https://www.nairaland.com/882034/10-basis-scripture-interpretation

@Enigma & AIO:

I believe both of you would likely accept that the other is "mainly" sincere! Yet each sees issues from personal perspective and accordingly, find faults with the other's position!

Since we also say (believe, have been taught) that the Christian walk is a personal one, I think AIO has answered his question - its personal! But that is only true as far as reader (seeker) is truly seeking truth!

Enigma: First things first. May God and Jesus Christ give you witness in your heart and in your mind of the truth of the Good News i.e. of the Gospel. That is more important than anything.

Second: be warned that a lot of interpretations of the Bible and claims about what the Bible says, even church sermons are not (full) truths. {In a sense some church sermons can be compared to the Midrash ---- not reliable for a considerable part}

Third, you may need to spend more time trying to make sense in your own way of what the Bible is saying.

Finally, the questions you are asking are good questions; some of them have always baffled and will always baffle.

Best wishes

You failed to establish the rules of interpretation, and the validity of the rules.

That's because there ain't any. All scriptures are open to personal (mis)interpretations. It is a free for all.

Kay 17:
You failed to establish the rules of interpretation, and the validity of the rules.

That's why church leaders like pastors first of all have to seek "divine authority" to dazzle their sheep gatherings before they begin to feed them with their own (mis)interpretations. As a pastor or head of a church, firstly acquiring divine authority is everything if you want the multitude to accept your own personal (mis)interpretations as the truth. If you can convince your congregation that you have such an authority, then you are a made man. You don hammer be dat.

@ nuclearboy

Ignoring the mumus united deliberately.

I deliberately held back on writing more, i.e. after the initial query of my first post, due to a number of things I know. I still prefer to hold back (and I am still holding back quite a lot) due to that and various other reasons. Nevertheless, because of your interjection and just for general attention, I put forward a number of considerations below.


1. We all see through a glass darkly (1 Cor 13:12) and thus (a) even if we have a full knowledge and understanding of the Bible, we would still not have full knowledge of the truths and mysteries of God; and (b) in any event, we modern men are never likely to be able to have full knowledge and understanding of the Bible because there are simply too many factors limiting us including that, arguably, that is exactly the way it is intended to be.

2. In trying to do our best to understand the Bible we should bear in mind that there are at least two (types of) meanings to any passage of scripture; (a) the objective meaning(s) or meaning(s) intended by the writer; and (b) the possible applied meaning(s) of the passage i.e. how the passage may be used legitimately subjectively even in contexts not originally intended by the writer.

3. We must humble ourselves to pray for God through the Holy Spirit to guide and illuminate our (attempts at) understanding the Bible both in relation to its objective/intended meaning(s) as well as to the possible applied meaning(s).

4. We must strive to make the most of the intellectual tools available to us. Christians over the years and scholars generally have devised various guides and tools to assist with prising out the meanings of things written in the Bible. Check out the wikipedia entries on Biblical Hermeneutics and on Exegesis for example.

5. However, in relation to 4, we must bear in mind that: (a) not necessarily everybody will accept the appropriateness of (all of) those tools; and (b) even if they do, not necessarily everyone will apply them accurately or properly.

6. The thing about "private interpretation" is understandable but can be dangerous. Understandable in the context of possible applied meaning(s) which can be very subjective but dangerous if it ends up denying or contradicting the intended/objective (or even universal?) meaning(s).

7. Now, I add a very personal rule of mine: first things first is that one must read the words of Jesus Himself very very very carefully first and foremost and above everything else, (a Bible with His words marked in red can be very desirable for this purpose); then, any other thing one reads anywhere else in the Bible, or anywhere else whatsoever for that matter, must be read in light of one's genuine and best understanding of Jesus' teachings; for me, if it does not accord with Jesus' teaching, it is to be discarded.

Addendum:

In relation to my point 1 especially, check out this post that I made elsewhere on the same day that I made the post that has led to the present queries.

From https://www.nairaland.com/924281/addiction-please-help#10693416

Enigma:


When one reads something like this (or himself/herself have a comparable experience of one's own), all this big big grammar like "exegesis", "hermeneutics" etc etc take secondary place.

jmoore: is the poster really a christian?

Why not help him by answering?

The best way to get the answers that you seek is from GOD. Just follow HIS rules and you will have the chance to get the right answers once you get to HEAVEN. GOD loves you too much to let you know all the answers now.