webdezzi: haha, thread already escalated!

@OP i am not going to try to convince you instead state my own experience.
I use PHP, Java and Python

from my experience with all 3, i "believe" python has no match.
I am yet to use python on the web but i can see right through why Seun is a python enthusiast.

This is fact and true, Python gets the job done, faster and efficiently.

in java, to print a word, you will have to



in python


I worked on a project recently where i had to do python and Java side by side,
I can recollect going back to declare variables before using them in java whereas in python, i can use a new variable on the fly, no object casting like you have to do every time you fetch an object in ArrayList and other containers in java.

I read someone said python aint clean, Please go and learn it.
It is so clean, it looks like an art work, Most of what you do in python will fit in your head easily

in python your code MUST looks like this



in java, you are permitted to code like this, like a mad man





in python, i can have more than 1 class in a single file, unlike java where you Must create a new file for a new class
the beauty is this, you can have 4 or five small cool classes in a file tucked somewhere, just import that file and you are good to go
very good when developing a large application with several classes


you cant get all am saying until you try python out.
If you dont intend to stop coding in your current language, then dont try this cos you wont go back.

webdezzi: haha, thread already escalated!

@OP i am not going to try to convince you instead state my own experience.
I use PHP, Java and Python

from my experience with all 3, i "believe" python has no match.
I am yet to use python on the web but i can see right through why Seun is a python enthusiast.

This is fact and true, Python gets the job done, faster and efficiently.

in java, to print a word, you will have to



in python


I worked on a project recently where i had to do python and Java side by side,
I can recollect going back to declare variables before using them in java whereas in python, i can use a new variable on the fly, no object casting like you have to do every time you fetch an object in ArrayList and other containers in java.

I read someone said python aint clean, Please go and learn it.
It is so clean, it looks like an art work, Most of what you do in python will fit in your head easily

in python your code MUST looks like this



in java, you are permitted to code like this, like a mad man





in python, i can have more than 1 class in a single file, unlike java where you Must create a new file for a new class
the beauty is this, you can have 4 or five small cool classes in a file tucked somewhere, just import that file and you are good to go
very good when developing a large application with several classes


you cant get all am saying until you try python out.
If you dont intend to stop coding in your current language, then dont try this cos you wont go back.

megaplaza: you forgot that Java is a pure OOP language, can you give me a python version of println hello world. Besides this instance to me is not enough reason to recommend a langauge for someone, I also program in Scala, you can also do println 'hello world'. That doesn't mean i will come here and tell someone is Scala or nothing. I believe someone should be given examples of each language, their strength and weakness infact the person should learn each langauge atleast variable declaration, syntax etc, language construct then pick the suitable one. Some might say that Java is verbose because of curly braces etc but the truth is that i dont face codes without curly braces cos it's easy to get lost. I know number of times i used IDE's curly brace matching feature to even know what is what, no matter how you nest and clean up your code, once it gets to 100, thousands lines of code, you need a marker.

megaplaza: as for mutiple classes in a single file, i guess you know about Java Inner classes, as for declaring variables on the fly? Dont even go there, Python dynamic and weak typin is to me a minus(-), cos sometimes the variable doesn't have the data type you think it has. I think to reduce bug, any programming language should be static typed. If you want variable sum to store integers, why in a later part assign it string. This has been proven to make dynamic languages not just Python to generate error during use easily cause you have to remember the expected data type of variables, i dont even like the fact that PHP has weak typing, u can do $i = 3; then $i = 'hello';

webdezzi:


i quoted that example to support python as a rapid application development language.





thats cos the interpreter does the type conversion bro!
thats no point.

megaplaza: ok i get your point, just trying to say that Java is pure OOP, if you write python OOP code i doubt println 'hello world' will be enough. I think i have achieved somethingg with this threadCheers, no newbies can go through it and with few google search, trying out some of the languages mentioned then pick which to learn. I still think PHP beats python in terms of web development rapid development, same way i think Java EE is an overkill for small or medium scale web app even, even though i use Java for desktop app evelopment. I intend to use Scala for Large scale web app developement using Lift framework. Thanks for your comment.

webdezzi:

php codes written by Rasmus Lerdorf will definitely beat my python code, same way python written by guido van rossum will beat your php code.
cos the experiences we all have may not match.

comparing a language against another is really not worth it since the programmer's experience and logical reasoning is what counts.
except like yea, this available method saves time, that syntax makes life more easy.

megaplaza:
You dont even get my point about the typing stuff. Have you ever passed a variable to a function and when you run it it pops up error that parameter type passed doesn't match expected parameter type, this will be detect in java while you are still writing the code but in PHP and even Python, you wont find out until you run the code, thats a minus for dynamic typed langauge. And finally let me make it clear, am not comparing Java, PHP and Python. My point is when newbies ask questions about what to learn, we should just recommend langauges and how to get started let the newbie pick what to learn cause like you said the logical reasoning and experience is what matters, i have said this when i gave an instance of what happen on stackoverflow where a python programmer critised PHP for not having a function for extracting file extension maybe he wasn't aware of PHP pathinfo($filename, PATH_EXTENSION_INFO) or so function in PHP and he was busy saying trash about PHP. Some people might see it and buy his idea. Which is false. Same way i said python programmers promote python saying it has Functional Programming support while PHP doesn't but PHP 5.3(am sure) supports Functional programming and has functions such as mapreduce, list construct, closure(anonymous functions), defining functions inside a function, even callback functions and passing a function definition to a variable then call the function using the variable name etc. I rest my case.

webdezzi:

do you package non-tested code.
when you run it, you get the error, then fix it, same way you get syntax errors.
if you expect an int and your user passes in a string, you need to validate user input.

i rest here, i believe anyone looking to raise a topic like this need to speak both languages.

A-ZeD:
Megaplaza
I get your point about the whole issue(reason for starting the thread)and the best advice in my opinion is to use which ever language your friends use because when ever you run into problems your friends are the ones likely to help you.
I learnt python before php and i love the language but i've never used python for anything proffesional cos the two places i've worked use vb.net and php.
I intend to do something with python soonest

Seun: @megaplaza: Python is a general purpose programming language. It can do web, desktop, CLI, whatever, though it's rather slow. The problem with starting with a specialized web programming languages is that, when you need to do something outside the web, you'll have to learn an entirely new language. That's a steep learning curve. You end up limiting yourself to the web in order to avoid that. The problem with PHP specifically is that, even in web programming, it struggles to do things Python does elegantly & effortlessly.

spikes C: seun is still commiting the crime. The OP wants a specific example,not something generalised. I can say that PHP is better than python because it does what python stuggles to do,now that needs an explanation and few examples.

Now, PHP in its simplistic form is a language meant for beginners. New programmers who started with PHP mostly end up on the web part. It is very easy to pickup and has so many functions that performs almost everything. The problem with PHP is that, it is not static and doesn't follow a proper coding style. They accept external functions and classes without much review. Infact PHP is a does-it-work language. I wonder if the people adding those functions ever read the documentations,but on the other hand it might be good. There're so many functions that does the same thing and even more are been added. The PHP developers are die hard backward compatibility keepers. If they remove most of those functions, 80% of live websites will go offline. Secondly, there libraries, people say that they have so many classed that actually does the same thing. But what they don't know is that people have preferences. So many xml parsers abi, well some of them are more advanced that the others. I have a friend who uses regular expressions in all text searching instead of the normal string functions. These are all personal preferences.
To me, use what will get the job done on time, efficient,reliable and fast. I would never use PHP to develop enterprise desktop apps. It can do it but not suitable for it. So,for my fellow developers, go learn new languages and beef up your resumes.

To the guy that gave an example of python's print('Hello world')
PHP has echo 'Hello world';
Pls,which one is shorter

megaplaza: @seun thanks for your comment but stating those things that PHP struggles to do that Python does elegantly and effortlessly will be great.

Seun:
- GUI programming.
- Sysadmin scripting.
- Programming for embedded systems.
- Building a shared components like caches for use in multi-threaded web programs.
- Processing background tasks.
- Building a standalone web server.
- Exploratory programming using a REPL.
- Programming with co-routines and lightweight threads.
- Software projects that make use of exotic architectures.

I'm not an expert in PHP, but the basic idea is that Python, as a general-purpose programming language like Java, C#, or C++, is designed to handle any type of programming task - provided your performance requirements are not extreme - while PHP evolved as a web templating language and struggles with anything outside that narrow area. It can be made to work for other things, though.

ekt_bear: I do have some minor annoyances with this language though, I must say.

I don't like how I write len(object) rather than object.length or something.

The former doesn't feel very object oriented

I also dislike that parenthesis are required for print() statements in python3.

Seun:
- GUI programming.
- Sysadmin scripting.
- Programming for embedded systems.
- Building a shared components like caches for use in multi-threaded web programs.
- Processing background tasks.
- Building a standalone web server.
- Exploratory programming using a REPL.
- Programming with co-routines and lightweight threads.
- Software projects that make use of exotic architectures.

I'm not an expert in PHP, but the basic idea is that Python, as a general-purpose programming language like Java, C#, or C++, is designed to handle any type of programming task - provided your performance requirements are not extreme - while PHP evolved as a web templating language and struggles with anything outside that narrow area. It can be made to work for other things, though.

@megaplaza: Python is a general purpose programming language. It can do web, desktop, CLI, whatever, though it's rather slow. The problem with starting with a specialized web programming languages is that, when you need to do something outside the web, you'll have to learn an entirely new language. That's a steep learning curve. You end up limiting yourself to the web in order to avoid that. The problem with PHP specifically is that, even in web programming, it struggles to do things Python does elegantly & effortlessly.

It is just really annoying...I dislike unnecessary extra typing.

To the guy that gave an example of python's print('Hello world')
PHP has echo 'Hello world';
Pls,which one is shorter

webdezzi: haha, thread already escalated!
in python, i can have more than 1 class in a single file, unlike java where you Must create a new file for a new class
the beauty is this, you can have 4 or five small cool classes in a file tucked somewhere, just import that file and you are good to go
very good when developing a large application with several classes

Errr that's not entirely true. Depends on the access modifier used. Basically, you can but you would have to take A LOT into consideration.

Just for confirmation, see the following:
this code runs fine!
this code also compile with no problems
Same goes for this code
The problem only arises in this code

That's the simplest example I could think of. There are other instances too.

Errr that's not entirely true. Depends on the access modifier used. Basically, you can but you would have to take A LOT into consideration.

Just for confirmation, see the following:
this code runs fine!
this code also compile with no problems
Same goes for this code
The problem only arises in this code

That's the simplest example I could think of. There are other instances too.