logicboy: How stupid can people get when they claim that Nigeria is more morally upright than the USA. I noticed this opinion when reading comments from the Creflo Dollar assault case. They were saying that American society is not good for bringing up children. The scientists/Bill Gates/Steve Jobs/religious leaders that are from America, were they not children before becoming adults?

https://www.nairaland.com/959135/creflo-dollar-arrested-choking-daughter



Morality is subjective. The simple answer is that both countries are morally corrupt and we all are too by various standards. Nigeria is number 1 in corruption while America is number 1 in xenophobic imperialism.


Let it be clear that if you think one country is more morally upright than the other for children, you are a biased fool judging on your own parenting style when there are other parenting styles that work as well, if not better than yours.

Is Nigeria moral at all?

These are though issues! While a country save the trees and terminate children's lives through abortion, the other deals with wether or not the leader is corrupt. It encompasses alot when you argue along this line. Just like saying homophobes, racists, terrorists and sexists are all the same. Morality is truely subjective.

logicboy:


Lol......escaping the debate? What makes your eligion more valid than others? Your God was not the first god to appear nor the second or the third.

If you want to go internal, lets look at the gays themselves. To most of them, they are not dong anything immoral, to you, they are. Who is right?

Lol.......far from it, I am not escaping the debate at all my friend.
It is beginning to occur to me that you miss the point of Christianity, you don't really quite get it (don't worry I'll explain as we move along). To talk about if homosexuals are immoral or not we must first define what is moral (which is what I'm trying to achieve with Zodiac61 by the way) and why homosexuality is immoral.
I happen to believe that our conscience is the same - at least at the core of it - and that it is God's law written in our being (You don't have to agree with this but I'll also propound on this as we move along).
For now though, I may not be quite as forthcoming because I've got some work to get done (.....Gosh, Nairaland is so addictive)

Anyway let's begin......(spoken like a true addict lol)

Asking the homosexual if he is immoral or not doesn't quite help us, much like asking Hitler if killing 6 million Jews is immoral or not won't quite help us either (extreme comparism I know but the point is that we don't find out what is good and evil by asking the individual because naturally people want to justify themselves and condemn others)

Let us not assume any God or religion for now. What we have is ourselves and our consciences. I know you believe that morality is subjective but at least you will agree that some things are more morally wrong or right than others (I don't necessarily hold this view but for the sake of argument I'll compromise on this).

To give you a picture of where I am getting at and to simplify things a bit let us imagine a scale and everything relatively good must be on the right of centre and everything relatively evil no matter how slightly must be at the left of center. Nothing can be dead center.

Now for anything to qualify to be on the right, it has to be good whichever way you look at it for instance forgiveness, kindness, gentleness, patience, love, peace, joy etc stuff that you would never have any moral reason to be secretive about i.e. something you wouldn't normally be ashamed of.

And for something to be left of center, it must be such that it is bad morally i.e. murder, hatred, greed, sexual promiscuity e.t.c. i.e. something that you would normally not want exposed.

Do your agree to this as a rough scale of sorts for an objective morality?

Naija

PAGAN 9JA:
i believe it is. not everything is bad about this nation. The USA has no morals at all.

i am talking about the common man.

Without a doubt.

Just watch D̶̲̥̅̊ Jerry springer show n U̶̲̥̅̊'ld kmow Americans r not only immoral, but sick as well.

Nigeria is corrupt wen it comes τ̅o leadrership, Money matters, armed robbery n co. Bt socially we r by far better than the U̶̲̥̅̊.S where even Marriage is getting phased out

God forbid!

logicboy: How stupid can people get when they claim that Nigeria is more morally upright than the USA. I noticed this opinion when reading comments from the Creflo Dollar assault case. They [color=#006600][/color]were saying that American society is not good for bringing up children. The scientists/Bill Gates/Steve Jobs/religious leaders that are from America, were they not children before becoming adults?

https://www.nairaland.com/959135/creflo-dollar-arrested-choking-daughter



Morality is subjective. The simple answer is that both countries are morally corrupt and we all are too by various standards. Nigeria is number 1 in corruption while America is number 1 in xenophobic imperialism.


Let it be clear that if you think one country is more morally upright than the other for children, you are a biased fool judging on your own parenting style when there are other parenting styles that work as well, if not better than yours.

must you insult people for having an opinion? Why call them fools if they think Nigeria is morally better than the US. You are exhibiting your own folly already

In bringing up children,i think nigeria is very much better in terms of morality.but comparing the two nations generally,nigeria is not better at all.

Noth countries are neither good nor bad. You are more likely to get away with crimes in Nigeria. If I kill someone and bribe the right people, I will live a normal life. But in the U.S everyone is punished for their crimes, especially Blacks.

Humans in general are innately evil and wicked. So the wickedness is the same everywhere, how the law is applied however, differs.

[color=#006600][/color]

PAGAN 9JA:


poverty is one issue that we all share, so it doesnt matter even if you are from the MOon, because i bet even the aliens are poor or else they would have invaded us by now and rid us of all this misery. .

where did you see the aliens you are expecting to invade earth seems like you've seen too many hollywood movies and read too much sci-fi novels.

Nigerians are good at hiding their dirt Simple!!! Worse attrocities happen in Nigeria daily, its not reported on the news!


Atleast Americans are open enough to show it to the world!!!

Oyedepo is yet to be arrested and imprisoned for child abuse. Creflo was booked. Same wickedness, different application of the law.

Nigeria is a lawless country. No rules. No laws. More madness. For most Nigerians, it is normal.

BOTH COUNTRIES HAVE CRIMINALS NO DOUBT I THINK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE US AND NIGERIA IS THAT IN NIGERIA, CRIMINALS ARE CELEBRATED WHEN THEY HAVE MONEY TO THROW AROUND.

some people judge america by wat the see on tv and read in mags,

one man's morals is anoda man's vice

kkk17:

must you insult people for having an opinion? Why call them fools if they think Nigeria is morally better than the US. You are exhibiting your own folly already

If the opinion is silly then it should be called silly.

What is with your messed up username?

obowunmi: Noth countries are neither good nor bad. You are more likely to get away with crimes in Nigeria. If I kill someone and bribe the right people, I will live a normal life. But in the U.S everyone is punished for their crimes, especially Blacks.

Humans in general are innately evil and wicked. So the wickedness is the same everywhere, how the law is applied however, differs.

Painfully true

2good:

Do you know that thesame legal system you talk about varies from country to country? I'll give you some examples here:
1. In Iran it is punishable by death to say there is no God.
2. Its is also a crime punishable by death for a Muslim to convert to Christianity.
3. In the Netherlands, prostitution is legal.
4. Smoking of marijuana is also legal in the Netherlands.
5. Homosexuality is Legal in many European countries including the Netherlands while it's a punishable offence in Nigeria.
6. In the US, some states allows homosexuality while some-others don't.
7. In Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to drive a car.
8. In Saudi Arabia a woman must always cover her hair in the public whether she's a Muslim, an Arab or a Westerner. it is the law.
9. In Oman, boys and girls are not allowed to talk and socialize in the public. It is strictly against the law but that is not a problem in Nigeria.

You can see that the cultural and religious believes of a people, influences their law in so many ways. So morality is subjective.

You seem to be equating legality to morality. Morals are the way human beings judge good and evil, the fact that people actually try to make laws tells you that there must be an element of objectivity else no one can possibly be judged since all human beings are equal and everyone seeks to justify himself. these laws that you have quoted especially in Arab countries are still regarded as oppressive even by the muslims themselves. someone may hide behind religion or behind the law to do something but deep down, his conscience will still prick him. You cannot tell me that the soldiers who killed Jews in Nazi Germany did it without any guilt or that the boys and girls who are not allowed to talk in public in Oman truly don't want to socialize because it is morally wrong to them.
An easy way to judge what is truly right or wrong may be this; assuming that there were no Governments or religions, what would people still condemn as evil and what would they uphold as good? As unrealistic as this question might look, if you honestly answer this question to yourself, you will realize that all people agree on the same basic moral code which you may define as "love thy neighbour as thyself"

take it or leave it , we Nigerians pray d most, still we're evil in our ways
BENT on copying d White man's style which in no way suits us...
d 2countries are "MORALLY DEGRADED" in dis recent tym
y'all shudnt start no comparison though

Mr_Anony:

You seem to be equating legality to morality. Morals are the way human beings judge good and evil, the fact that people actually try to make laws tells you that there must be an element of objectivity else no one can possibly be judged since all human beings are equal and everyone seeks to justify himself. these laws that you have quoted especially in Arab countries are still regarded as oppressive even by the muslims themselves. someone may hide behind religion or behind the law to do something but deep down, his conscience will still prick him. You cannot tell me that the soldiers who killed Jews in Nazi Germany did it without any guilt or that the boys and girls who are not allowed to talk in public in Oman truly don't want to socialize because it is morally wrong to them.
An easy way to judge what is truly right or wrong may be this; assuming that there were no Governments or religions, what would people still condemn as evil and what would they uphold as good? As unrealistic as this question might look, i[b]f you honestly answer this question to yourself, you will realize that all people agree on the same basic moral code which you may define as "love thy neighbour as thyself"[/b]

They agree on an impossibility?

1) To love your neighbour as yourself is impossible. Your survival will always be your highest priority


2) What does it mean to "love" in the first place? That itself is subjective


3) What but people who hate themselves? _

Who said marrying 100 wives is immoral.who said marrying 15 yrs old is immorality

LOL.

LogicBoy - whats your logic on this one?

If you think America is morally upright than Nigeria - thats your opinion, if you think otherwise, thats still your opinion, dont force it on people - let people make up their own minds -

Besides - which of you will ever conclude that anything is bad in America?

None of you - just keep on licking your slave masters butt hole.

LOL

I think Nigeria is worse off morally. You can easily perpetrate crimes in Nigeria, and get away with it. People who have the public trust are always manipulating the situation for their own agenda. People lie, cheat, steal and kill, and happily go to church or mosque, with zero compunctions whatsoever.

You can imagine the police stating that they rescued Christian Obodo, only for a group of vigilantes to come forward and make the very same claim. It's ridiculous, and such happenings make us look like a nation of morally-bankrupt mor.ons.

What about Herman Hembe, Ndidi Elumelu, the Maina fellow asked to probe pensions, and now Farouk Lawan. People who were asked to investigate a breach of public trust, and ended up enmeshed in massive, ridiculous corruption. That is just so sick.

They have their own issues in the US, but I doubt that people carry on with impunity, the way it happens here in Nigeria.

lacasa:


Without a doubt.

Just watch D̶̲̥̅̊ Jerry springer show n U̶̲̥̅̊'ld kmow Americans r not only immoral, but sick as well.

Nigeria is corrupt wen it comes τ̅o leadrership, Money matters, armed robbery n co. Bt socially we r by far better than the U̶̲̥̅̊.S where even Marriage is getting phased out

God forbid!

Lol, That is just stereotypical. Jerry Springer show is not a true representation of the US, It's a bit like doing a show about the mad people at Yaba left mental hospital and someone watches it and concludes that Nigerians are mad

Most American families believe it or not actually have more or less the same values as Nigerian families. The folks on Jerry Springer are the few sick Americans exposing their sickness for our sick entertainment.

Growing up in America, i was able to see the difference in the behavior of children there and in Nigeria. But truly, i can say that it all depends on the family upbringing because i have seen some kids in Nigeria that are extremely rude and disrespectful and also have seen kids in America that are also the same. But even though i grew up in America i wasn't wild like some of the kids because of my household training. So thats how i see it.

werepeLeri: LOL.

LogicBoy - whats your logic on this one?

If you think America is morally upright than Nigeria - thats your opinion, if you think otherwise, thats still your opinion, dont force it on people - let people make up their own minds -

Besides - which of you will ever conclude that anything is bad in America?

None of you - just keep on licking your slave masters butt hole.

LOL

Dont be stupid, I clearly stated that both are immoral. I never said that one is better. You are foolish

LizyL: Growing up in America, i was able to see the difference in the behavior of children there and in Nigeria. But truly, i can say that it all depends on the family upbringing because i have seen some kids in Nigeria that are extremely rude and disrespectful and also have seen kids in America that are also the same. But even though i grew up in America i wasn't wild like some of the kids because of my household training. So thats how i see it.

It's ironic sha. Well-behaved kids who grow up to be looters, scammers, general breakers of laws, etc.

Morality can be both subjective and objective,either or neither
If u look at it from d left it is objective,if u look at it from d right it is subjective,if u look at it from d top,it is neither,if u look at it from below it is either.
Lol*lol*lol*
Brings back those days in uniben wen I did philosophy $ logic as å course.

the US is far more upright morally tan nigeria and that is why the country is so blessed and nigeria is a mess. how many scammers, drug pushers, child molesters, thieving officials, currupt politicians, cultists, armed robbers, witches/wizards, prostitutes/runz girls occultic/blood money people (i could go on all day) does the US have compared to nigeria. the truth is there are far more vices in real life here in nigeria but we africans tend to base our perception of the states base on what we see in hollywood forgeting it is all acts and tese actors are nothing like that in real life. anyone who says sending a kid to uni in nigeria is safer tan sending him/her to skool in the US is CRAZY! do u know the vices that go on in nigerian universities i have studied in both countries so i know the difference. what im trying to say is America is a far better place to riase a kid, yes its not perfect and u would still have to do ur parental duties of makinh sure u raise them in the right neighbourhood and watch the friends they keep but as long as ur present to monitor their lives, they would be safe. most of the kids that end up bad in the US are either products of disfunctional or broken families and grew up in the wrong environment. lastly u say not talk about government but the common man? what nigerians fail to realise is that a government is nothing but a reflection of the people in that land. these people didnt fall from mars to givern us, THEY ARE US! and they reflect the values, morals and attidude of the general public hence the things they do are eactly what the 'common man' would do if placed in that position.

I can see we made frontpage {In a way, I don't like front page. Too many people chipping in makes things distracting for me}

logicboy: They agree on an impossibility?_

More like a utopia actually. Not impossible more like unrealistic.

1) To love your neighbour as yourself is impossible. Your survival will always be your highest priority

That is why there is no greater love that that of a man willing to lay down his life for another .......and there are instances of this in real life

2) What does it mean to "love" in the first place? That itself is subjective

Love is not subjective. What does it mean to love?

[i]Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up.
It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful.
It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth.
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends. [/i]1Corinthians 13:4-8 (I have been trying to argue without quoting the bible but then I know no better way to define love)

3) What but people who hate themselves?

People who hate themselves are actually medically sick

But u pple should remember dat we copied corruption n immorality 4rm d US, any corruption n immoral attitudes dats being practiced in Nig 2day is being copied 4rm d foreign man's land n yet re 2 b copied, so u cant say u knws better dan ur master

You will have to live in the 2 countries to say.I have done that I will say Nigeria is far morally notured.the average age for loosing virginity in the State is 12yrs which hardly happens in Nigeria.It is difficult to come across a 18yrs old black America with no kid.If you watch the local station in the United state you will be amazed.Infact,the way united state is going there will no morals left in yrs to come.All my families have since sent their children to Nigeria to have a feel of good morals
To sum it all ,united state have a good and working system which makes someone overlook all these,but Nigeria has none which makes the few cases of moral degeneration look obvious

obowunmi: Oyedepo is yet to be arrested and imprisoned for child abuse. Creflo was booked. Same wickedness, different application of the law.
Nigeria is a lawless country. No rules. No laws. More madness. For most Nigerians, it is normal.

Enough said!