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“ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Poll: Is "love your neighbour" reasonable and practical?

Yes: 50% (3 votes)
No: 16% (1 vote)
Yes, but conditions apply: 33% (2 votes)
This poll has ended

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Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by nuclearboy(m): 3:48am On Jun 25, 2012
The love of something "higher" than self actually makes sense.

We leave behind the belief that we are all that matters, because we have subjugated our baser instincts to "something higher" - Women's Lib was not love for an individual but an ideal. Same with the end of slavery in the USA. People saw more than the guy in the mirror in these cases and I wonder if they would be called names for such decisions.

Absolute love for "God" in the same way subjugates our individual greed, selfishness etc because it is not completed except the "love your neighbor as yourself" comes into play! In effect, because your love God, you will then love His creation just as you "love" yourself because you see yourself in them!

My summary is that our friend from Mars is confused and doesn't even love himself. The responses above show simple respect for more moderate views is obviously lacking - yet in the same breath, there is allusion to respect and tolerance. But where is that respect for DeepSight? or for the one you label "Fool"? Or even for yourself?
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Kay17: 11:05am On Jun 25, 2012
Agape. Love base on Principle
of good toward others.
2. Philia. Love that exist among family members.
3. Erros. Love due to intimate attraction. intimate love.
4. ?? This love appeals to jealousy and greed

Love is an intense emotion of care, concern, mutuality and unselfishness towards the object. Across all relationship, including the socially unacceptable, Love is the same without distinction.

Therefore creating artificial divisions based on social convention, invariably distorts and undermines our understanding on Love.

Also Love is useful.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Kay17: 11:08am On Jun 25, 2012
nuclearboy: The love of something "higher" than self actually makes sense.

We leave behind the belief that we are all that matters, because we have subjugated our baser instincts to "something higher" - Women's Lib was not love for an individual but an ideal. Same with the end of slavery in the USA. People saw more than the guy in the mirror in these cases and I wonder if they would be called names for such decisions.

Absolute love for "God" in the same way subjugates our individual greed, selfishness etc because it is not completed except the "love your neighbor as yourself" comes into play! In effect, because your love God, you will then love His creation just as you "love" yourself because you see yourself in them!

My summary is that our friend from Mars is confused and doesn't even love himself. The responses above show simple respect for more moderate views is obviously lacking - yet in the same breath, there is allusion to respect and tolerance. But where is that respect for DeepSight? or for the one you label "Fool"? Or even for yourself?

Its possible for a human to fall in Love with an abstract, brcause it can have as much weight as the perception of a real thing.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Nobody: 12:45pm On Jun 25, 2012
nuclearboy: The love of something "higher" than self actually makes sense.

If it makes sense to you. Cool!

nuclearboy:
Women's Lib was not love for an individual but an ideal. Same with the end of slavery in the USA. People saw more than the guy in the mirror in these cases and I wonder if they would be called names for such decisions.

Women's liberation was a celebration of individualism. That's the ideal. Women realized that they were "individuals" who had the power to join forces to make themselves heard. The end of slavery wasn't because "people saw more than the guy in mirror", there were a lot of factors that contributed to the end of slavery. And I called your little god a fool because of the first of the "greatest commandments" which is this love of god you are going on about. It doesn't make sense to me but it does to you. We cool?
Speaking about women's liberation, the love of your god is very much against it as it says in his infallible inspired words.
1 Corinthians 14;34
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says

nuclearboy: Absolute love for "God" in the same way subjugates our individual greed, selfishness etc because it is not completed except the "love your neighbor as yourself" comes into play! In effect, because your love God, you will then love His creation just as you "love" yourself because you see yourself in them!

You can love all the gods you want in order to subjugate your greed and selfishness, I don't need to. Pursuing my self interest doesn't imply greed and the things you consider greedy might just be normal to me and vice versa. Anyway,I don't know what's not completed except you love your neighbor.
Besides I don't need a diety to be awed by reality. Unlike you I don't need a god to see my self in nature, I understand I am just an insignificant part of the univere and the fact that I am alive is enough.

nuclearboy: My summary is that our friend from Mars is confused and doesn't even love himself. The responses above show simple respect for more moderate views is obviously lacking - yet in the same breath, there is allusion to respect and tolerance. But where is that respect for DeepSight? or for the one you label "Fool"? Or even for yourself?

I love me, I just wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. I give respect when it's given. Deepsight came to criticize and I responded in kind. Deepsight knows I give as much repect as is given and if he doesn't, oh well. You can go f#ck and love your god.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by nuclearboy(m): 10:24pm On Jun 25, 2012
Estres - a condition found inn young Bull elephants who, unable to find expression of their sexuality, turn to aggression, pulling down trees, harassing neighbors and generally being a nuisance.

You do need a partner for the horizontal
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Nobody: 11:26pm On Jun 25, 2012
Lol.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 3:10pm On Jun 26, 2012
I actually think "love your neighbour as yourself" is a sound teaching. The only problem I see with it is that it is impracticable in the world we live in, as not everyone even really "loves" their own selves in the generally accepted sense of the word. This is in line with logicboy's earlier submission that some people do really horrible things to themselves that give them maximum pleasure and satisfaction. Shall we then admonish this lot to "love" their neighbours in the same manner that they "love" themselves?
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 3:23pm On Jun 26, 2012
Martian:
Under every "sacrificial" act is a motivation. And that motivation is still "self interest". Even acts of charity can be traced back to the feelings they give the person.
Humans rise for their loved ones because of their "self interest" not to lose the loved one.
Humans have died for their countries in times of war in order to protect their "self interest". I've been to war,and it was "self interest" every single time I stepped into that war zone.

Funny enough, I actually share the same sentiment. I have always been of the belief that humans (and probably every other animal out there) are inherently selfish. I believe that when people do things out of "love" or "sacrifice", when we do good generally, it's probably because it makes us feel good ultimately. The sense of satisfaction - that gratification - that comes with the knowledge that you did something worthwhile is usually an incentive to always want to continue in that path. Some people don't feel this sense of satisfaction, they see and feel no need to be good or do good, and so they usually don't bother. These are the people we see as "mean". At the end of the day, it's really about us - ourselves.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Kay17: 3:55pm On Jun 26, 2012
^^^
I agree with you partially. I watched a documentary on the Chernobyl nuclear disaster and saw people (the liquidators) selflessly exposing themselves to deadly radiation to contain the radiation from spreading across Europe.

These ppl must have felt that urgency, percieved the helpless of the potential victims and also making a mental calculation that sacrificing themselves was a small price in saving the world for little or no praise.

Sometimes Love is the purest instinct.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by truthislight: 4:01pm On Jun 26, 2012
Kay 17: ^^^
I agree with you partially. I watched a documentary on the Chernobyl nuclear disaster and saw people (the liquidators) selflessly exposing themselves to deadly radiation to contain the radiation from spreading across Europe.

These ppl must have felt that urgency, percieved the helpless of the potential victims and also making a mental calculation that sacrificing themselves was a small price in saving the world for little or no praise.

Sometimes Love is the purest instinct.

thats ma man kay17.
How good of U.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Enigma(m): 4:15pm On Jun 26, 2012
@Kay17

Bear in mind also that Jesus was addressing people who came to listen to Him --- i.e. people who believed in Him at least in some way.

Thus He was addressing the 'love thy neighbour as yourself' statement to people who already had a decent idea of goodness and a decent conscience.

Thus it would be unreasonable to think that the statement should be construed with the background of the conceptions of perverts and people with a seared conscience about love.

cool
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 4:19pm On Jun 26, 2012
Kay 17: ^^^
I agree with you partially. I watched a documentary on the Chernobyl nuclear disaster and saw people (the liquidators) selflessly exposing themselves to deadly radiation to contain the radiation from spreading across Europe.

These ppl must have felt that urgency, percieved the helpless of the potential victims and also making a mental calculation that sacrificing themselves was a small price in saving the world for little or no praise.

Sometimes Love is the purest instinct.

Interesting, but I still think your story is in line with my persuasions. They felt the urgency and made mental calculations in a deadly situation to help other people, most likely because of the satisfaction they would derive from their daring acts, knowing that they just saved the world, even if that gratification would be the very last thing they would experience before dying. They felt good about themselves knowing they were engaged in a worthy and noble cause.

I do not deny that love is, or could be the purest instinct. I just think that this instinct could be engendered by an innate trait of selfishness we all probably possess. I may be wrong though. smiley
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Enigma(m): 4:20pm On Jun 26, 2012
@ Nuke

I think you are referring to the estrus cycle in elephants (female, I believe) and musth (in males)?

cool
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 4:26pm On Jun 26, 2012
Enigma: @Kay17

Bear in mind also that Jesus was addressing people who came to listen to Him --- i.e. people who believed in Him at least in some way.

Thus He was addressing the 'love thy neighbour as yourself' statement to people who already had a decent idea of goodness and a decent conscience.

Thus it would be unreasonable to think that the statement should be construed with the background of the conceptions of perverts and people with a seared conscience about love.

cool

Unless it's recorded somewhere, we cannot be entirely sure of the exact kind of audience Jesus had whilst giving that admonition. Having being reported to have wined and dined with all manner of sinners, it is not out of place to assume that there could have indeed been perverts and psychopaths present with him, especially given that he categorically stated that he came for the lost sheep of Israel.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Kay17: 4:44pm On Jun 26, 2012
Purist:

Unless it's recorded somewhere, we cannot be entirely sure of the exact kind of audience Jesus had whilst giving that admonition. Having being reported to have wined and dined with all manner of sinners, it is not out of place to assume that there could have indeed been perverts and psychopaths present with him, especially given that he categorically stated that he came for the lost sheep of Israel.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Kay17: 4:46pm On Jun 26, 2012
Purist:

Unless it's recorded somewhere, we cannot be entirely sure of the exact kind of audience Jesus had whilst giving that admonition. Having being reported to have wined and dined with all manner of sinners, it is not out of place to assume that there could have indeed been perverts and psychopaths present with him, especially given that he categorically stated that he came for the lost sheep of Israel.

I don't think their sacrifice was for gratification, they are largely anonymous and forgotten. They were the only ones available to clean up and they took it as a sacrifice without honours.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 4:54pm On Jun 26, 2012
Kay 17:

I don't think their sacrifice was for gratification, they are largely anonymous and forgotten. They were the only ones available to clean up and they took it as a sacrifice without honours.

I meant self-interest, but I see your point anyway.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by DeepSight(m): 5:15pm On Jun 26, 2012
Purist:

I meant self-interest, but I see your point anyway.

Let me just add that even where it is argued that doing good makes us feel good with ourselves, there is obviously a reason whay we would feel good about good acts, and such a feeling does not take away from the goodness of the act but is a necessary by-product because we recognize the act to be good.

To demonstrate: we would similarly feel bad about a bad act: because we recognize the act to be bad and such a feeling does not detract from the badness of the act. If this is the case then we can similarly say that feeling good about a good act does not detract from the goodness of the act.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 9:06pm On Jun 26, 2012
^^ Sure, can't fault that at all. I agree with you there.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by MyJoe: 4:20pm On Aug 03, 2012
Purist: I actually think "love your neighbour as yourself" is a sound teaching. The only problem I see with it is that it is impracticable in the world we live in, as not everyone even really "loves" their own selves in the generally accepted sense of the word. This is in line with logicboy's earlier submission that some people do really horrible things to themselves that give them maximum pleasure and satisfaction. Shall we then admonish this lot to "love" their neighbours in the same manner that they "love" themselves?

Logicboy had no point. At least, no logical point. As Enigma observed, the words were addressed to a familiar audience. Even if we consider that there would have been passersby, relatives of disciples and curious non-believers, and that the words were meant for all since Jesus is said to have been sent to all, logicboy’s thesis would still be illogical. During these language classes of mine, the teacher would come to the class and ask us to “chat with your neighbour”. Now, it would be out of place to challenge the teacher or her instruction on the basis that there was someone who woke up with acute laryngitis and so could not chat or someone with bad breath who’s chat would be unwelcome by his neighbour.

The teacher’s request was contemplated with the “normal” student in mind. The abnormal or special student would have to be dealt with specially. While this is not a perfect example, I believe it conveys the point perfectly. Instructions are given with “normal” or “everyday” people in mind. Attacking an instruction to love your neighbour on the basis that there are mentally ill people in the world of the type we don’t want their love is, I think, plain silly.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by MyJoe: 4:27pm On Aug 03, 2012
Purist:

Funny enough, I actually share the same sentiment. I have always been of the belief that humans (and probably every other animal out there) are inherently selfish. I believe that when people do things out of "love" or "sacrifice", when we do good generally, it's probably because it makes us feel good ultimately. The sense of satisfaction - that gratification - that comes with the knowledge that you did something worthwhile is usually an incentive to always want to continue in that path. Some people don't feel this sense of satisfaction, they see and feel no need to be good or do good, and so they usually don't bother. These are the people we see as "mean". At the end of the day, it's really about us - ourselves.
Having a selfish motive for our actions is something we cannot get away from. But actions are motivated by selfish motives to varying degrees. People act out of selfish motives. People also do act for purely altruistic reasons. People do things for others when there is no benefit to themselves. To suggest that the satisfaction to be derived is a pre-thought while embarking on the act in the majority of the cases we consider altruistic is misguided. Even if it were, I do not think that satisfaction is sufficient to erode the quality of the act of love.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 6:22pm On Aug 03, 2012
MyJoe:

Logicboy had no point. At least, no logical point. As Enigma observed, the words were addressed to a familiar audience. Even if we consider that there would have been passersby, relatives of disciples and curious non-believers, and that the words were meant for all since Jesus is said to have been sent to all, logicboy’s thesis would still be illogical. During these language classes of mine, the teacher would come to the class and ask us to “chat with your neighbour”. Now, it would be out of place to challenge the teacher or her instruction on the basis that there was someone who woke up with acute laryngitis and so could not chat or someone with bad breath who’s chat would be unwelcome by his neighbour.

The teacher’s request was contemplated with the “normal” student in mind. The abnormal or special student would have to be dealt with specially. While this is not a perfect example, I believe it conveys the point perfectly. Instructions are given with “normal” or “everyday” people in mind. Attacking an instruction to love your neighbour on the basis that there are mentally ill people in the world of the type we don’t want their love is, I think, plain silly.

He had a logical point. Even if the words of Jesus were truly addressed to a familiar audience at the time, today, it has become some sort of universal admonition which we're all expected to live by. Note that I neither challenged nor attacked the teaching, as can be seen in my admission that I consider it to be a sound teaching. I was only pointing out how impossible it is to expect everyone to live by those words, because love is a subjective emotion that is expressed differently, some even bordering on the drastic. The suicide bomber who blows himself to pieces for the love of Allah and himself clearly has an idea of love that is vastly different from yours and mine. Call him brainwashed or whatnot, it's moot here. My point? The fact that some people do what we "normal" people would consider "horrible", does not mean that they are "mentally ill". As good as it sounds, I certainly won't be preaching to the suicide bomber to love his neighbour as himself. And I don't expect that you would either.

Using your analogy, even if the teacher's request was contemplated with the "normal" students in mind, it still does not take away from the fact that the request is not totally practicable because there are still people present there who are "special", and thus unable to carry out her request.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 6:27pm On Aug 03, 2012
MyJoe:
Having a selfish motive for our actions is something we cannot get away from. But actions are motivated by selfish motives to varying degrees. People act out of selfish motives. People also do act for purely altruistic reasons. People do things for others when there is no benefit to themselves. To suggest that the satisfaction to be derived is a pre-thought while embarking on the act in the majority of the cases we consider altruistic is misguided. Even if it were, I do not think that satisfaction is sufficient to erode the quality of the act of love.

I kind of agree with you here, except for the bold part. Maybe you could list a few examples of acts carried our for purely altruistic reasons and let's examine them critically.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure that I really suggested that satisfactions to be derived are often pre-thought. As a matter of fact, I believe that many people often do good without any expectations of reward or benefits of any kind. I know that I certainly do. My point is just that at the end of the day, the subconscious? motive may just be that inner good feeling it gives us ultimately. It certainly doesn't take away from the goodness of the act though.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by MyJoe: 6:32pm On Aug 03, 2012
Purist:
Using your analogy, even if the teacher's request was contemplated with the "normal" students in mind, it still does not take away from the fact that the request is not totally practicable because there are still people present there who are "special", and thus unable to carry out her request.

Yes, and that is not the part I am disputing. The point is that the teacher’s instruction was good. There was nothing wrong with it. If your point is simply that the commandment to love is not totally practicable, I am okay with that. If it is that not everyone will heed it, that is also, of course, true – otherwise the commandment would hardly have been necessary. This thread was opened because the commandment itself was attacked. Logicboy’s post backed that attack on the point there are certain people we don’t want their love. That is not a good basis to attack the commandment. It is only a basis to recognise that the commandment has limited application in an imperfect world.

No, I wasn’t implying that you challenged or attacked the teaching. Martian, and then, logicboy did. And I recognise and did mention in my post all you said about the universal audience the words have.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by MyJoe: 6:36pm On Aug 03, 2012
Purist:
I kind of agree with you here, except for the bold part. Maybe you could list a few examples of acts carried our for purely altruistic reasons and let's examine them critically.
Got to leave here soon. I might oblige you sometime, but I see in your edit that you already do get the point.


EDIT: Also, I'm not sure that I really suggested that satisfactions to be derived are often pre-thought.
No. I was addressing your post and the view you were responding to together.


As a matter of fact, I believe that many people often do good without any expectations of reward or benefits of any kind. I know that I certainly do. My point is just that at the end of the day, the subconscious? motive may just be that inner good feeling it gives us ultimately. It certainly doesn't take away from the goodness of the act though.
Right.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Purist(m): 6:40pm On Aug 03, 2012
MyJoe:
It is only a basis to recognise that the commandment has limited application in an imperfect world.

Exactly my point.

And I agree with the rest of your post. We're pretty much on the same page, I believe.

Have a good evening, sire!
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Nobody: 7:19pm On Aug 03, 2012
MyJoe:
No, I wasn’t implying that you challenged or attacked the teaching. Martian, did.

The teaching I attacked as being silly is the one about loving the so called god of israel. That teaching itself causes the christians to violate the latter one about tolerance(love your neighbor)

I'll give you a quick example.
This picture is one of a bunch of african american christians who flocked to a chick-fil-a restuarant in order to buy some chicken(lol) and show their support for the president of the company who happens to be a christian and whose "love of God" makes him oppose equal rights for LGBT people.

Apparently, "loving your neighbor" and their god of israel includes trampling on your neigbors civil rights and these idiots' memories are too clouded by their religious dogma to realise that the flawed religion imposed on them in the 18th century and used to justify their subjugation is the same one they are using to try to oppress other people with in the 21st.

The love of their israeli god is the reason these "saved and sanctified" negroes feel the need to support a man who 40 years ago would have been prejudiced towards them just as he is towards LGBT people because of his faith.

The suicide bombers also justify their madness with fealty and love for allah. "loving" a god is a silly idea and can be used to negate the more sensible teaching about tolerance.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by MyJoe: 8:22pm On Aug 03, 2012
I appreciate the fact that not everyone will appreciate the commandment to love God. Those who don't believe in the the existence of God certainly cannot. I have believed in God, although mostly in a different manner from most religious folk, for most of my life, yet I still struggle with that commandment. A lot of people do. That was why I chose to focus on the second commandment which I believe most people can agree on, as I was taken aback by your reception of it.

Now you state you have no problem with it, fine.

As for the homophobes, while a valid argument can be made linking their actions to their religious beliefs, since they themselves would state so, tolerance and intolerance towards LGBT people cut accross people of diverse views, including atheism and agnosticism.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by MyJoe: 8:28pm On Aug 03, 2012
Purist:

Exactly my point.

And I agree with the rest of your post. We're pretty much on the same page, I believe.

Have a good evening, sire!
Good evening to you, too.
smiley
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by Nobody: 10:39pm On Aug 03, 2012
MyJoe: As for the homophobes, while a valid argument can be made linking their actions to their religious beliefs, since they themselves would state so, tolerance and intolerance towards LGBT people cut accross people of diverse views, including atheism and agnosticism.

But the ones that actively promote their prejudices while hiding behind their dogma are the religionists.
Anyway, I think more black people need to embrace ideas based on naturalism in order to progress. Ideologies and worldviews based on bronze age superstitions and primitive jewish ideas hasn't served them well. If they were naturalists they wouldn't view homosexuality as a pervasion of their god's "creation"

MyJoe: I appreciate the fact that not everyone will appreciate the commandment to love God. Those who don't believe in the the existence of God certainly cannot. I have believed in God, although mostly in a different manner from most religious folk, for most of my life, yet I still struggle with that commandment.

How do you struggle with the commandment? Is it because it is a commandment? Maybe carrying it out means being a bigot? Or is it because it's quite difficult to love something you've never had contact with?

What makes the jews' myths so special anyway?
If you tell an average Nigerian that after Shango died he went to the world of the ancestors and became a god, he'll probably laugh at you, but if you tell him some jewish carpenter rose up from the dead and went to his kingdom to sit at the right hand of god, then it's an indiputable fact to him. lol, both sound equally ridiculous.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by DeepSight(m): 11:43pm On Aug 03, 2012
Martian:

The teaching I attacked as being silly is the one about loving the so called god of israel. That teaching itself causes the christians to violate the latter one about tolerance(love your neighbor)


O, don't soft pedal now, or outrightly LIE, or seek escape hatches with general issues of prejudice. Or try to pretend you did not directly attack and ridicule "love your neighbour". The thread, as the title discloses, is about the commandment to love your neighbour, not about the commandment to love God. You attacked BOTH commandments, and the fact remains that there is nothing wrong with the "love your neighbour" commandment, period. In the bolded above, you dishonestly try to aver or insinuate that you only had an issue with the commandment to love God.

How do you struggle with the commandment? Is it because it is a commandment? Maybe carrying it out means being a bigot? Or is it because it's quite difficult to love something you've never had contact with?

In a difficult and seemingly unjust world, even the most sincere religious theists struggle with the notion of God's love. Who hasn't shaken his fist at the sky and screamed "why me!" at one point or the other? There's nothing to steal a point from in that. It's human.

Purist:

I kind of agree with you here, except for the bold part. Maybe you could list a few examples of acts carried our for purely altruistic reasons and let's examine them critically.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure that I really suggested that satisfactions to be derived are often pre-thought. As a matter of fact, I believe that many people often do good without any expectations of reward or benefits of any kind. I know that I certainly do. My point is just that at the end of the day, the subconscious? motive may just be that inner good feeling it gives us ultimately. It certainly doesn't take away from the goodness of the act though.

All this is well and good, but I really hope you will not go to the extreme, which a friend of mine did some time ago, of suggesting that even the extensive travails of Nelson Mandela, were all selfishly motivated because in his inner mind, he just wanted to win a great name for himself. No doubt, Martian and Logicboy will be happy to assert that to be correct.
Re: “ Love Your Neighbour” And Martian’s Antithesis by MyJoe: 11:49pm On Aug 03, 2012
It's because God is incomprehensible and unknowable. That is the short answer.

When I think of God I pull back. It's hard to take much of the descriptions of him you find in the Bible and Quran seriously. Loving God for me means loving his creation, and nothing more. Making the God entity an object of love is what I'm not sure I have the rudiments of. No, I don't do Jewish myths or any myths. Belief in God is not all about any particular concept of him. It's about recognising the necessity of God and apprehending the evidence from, not just the amount of order you see around you, but the pattern - now, that is subjective in my view.

When I read that verse I see a commandment to love God and my neighbour. I don't bother about the Israel bit. Whether Jesus lived at the time and place alleged does not matter. What is is that statement attributed to him which is useful.

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