The notion of a perfect and omnipotent creator designing and fashioning the universe, should at minimum, guarantee a perfect an orderly functioning of the creator's most valuable flagship product,man.

Apparently, that is not case. Just like a badly made product,the human product is beset with all manners of disfuctions and malfuctions, and without any reset or reboot buttons.

left untreated, a simple bodily malfunction can lead to a gradual degeneration and inevitable death.

This begs the question of how can a perfect omnipotent creator be credited with so much design flaws?

However, from an evolutionary point of view, disease, disfunction and malfunction should be expected and makes perfect sense. The trial and error mechanisms of ceaseless cell divisions are guaranteed to produce errors that manifests in the form of unfavourable genetic mutations.

Sin ?

Sin is one of the main causes of illness

In the end of the book of Deuteronomy, God gave the people of Israel a list of blessings and curses, depending if they listened or not to His Commandment and He says this:

If you are not careful to observe all the words of this law which are written in this book, to fear this honored and awesome name, the LORD your God, then the LORD will bring extraordinary plagues on you and your descendants, even severe and lasting plagues, and miserable and chronic sicknesses. He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt of which you were afraid, and they will cling to you. Also every sickness and every plague which, not written in the book of this law, the LORD will bring on you until you are destroyed. Then you shall be left few in number, whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, because you did not obey the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 28:58-62)(NASB)

But not all diseases are the result of our personal sin.

The parents’ sins also bring disease and death

Jeroboam was an evil emperor who led the 10 tribes of Israel into an inconceivable idolatry. When Abijah, his son, fell ill he sent his wife to the prophet Ahijah to ask him about the disease and whether the child would recover. Although he instructed his wife not to tell who she was, when she crossed the threshold, the prophet told her who she was and reminded her of the serious sins of her husband. Then, he told her the following things regarding their child’s disease:

Now you, arise, go to your house. When your feet enter the city the child will die. All Israel shall mourn for him and bury him, for he alone of Jeroboam’s family will come to the grave, because in him something good was found toward the LORD God of Israel in the house of Jeroboam. (1 Kings 14:12-13)(NASB)

The sickness and death of the child was the result of his father’s sin, but also a manifestation of God’s love which had allowed him to depart this life before he learned to do all the harm done by his father, the child died when in him something good was found toward God.

http://moldovacrestina.net/english/doctrine/what-does-the-bible-say-about-the-cause-of-illnesses/

read the bible and you'll understand more.

plaetton: The notion of a perfect and omnipotent creator designing and fashioning the universe, should at minimum, guarantee a perfect an orderly functioning of the creator's most valuable flagship product,man.

Apparently, that is not case. Just like a badly made product,the human product is beset with all manners of disfuctions and malfuctions, and without any reset or reboot buttons.

left untreated, a simple bodily malfunction can lead to a gradual degeneration and inevitable death.

This begs the question of how can a perfect omnipotent creator be credited with so much design flaws?

[B]However, from an evolutionary point of view, disease, disfunction and malfunction should be expected and makes perfect sense. The trial and error mechanisms of ceaseless cell divisions are guaranteed to produce errors that manifests in the form of unfavourable genetic mutations[/b].

On the contrary if the evolution myth is true, one would expect that after millions of years of trial and error, evolution should have gotten it right by now and eliminated all diseases. Thanx for bringing up this topic; another glaring evidence that the theory of evolution is full of holes and it's delusional.

jayriginal: Sin ?
The parents’ sins also bring disease and death

wrong...

John 9
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him

the bubonic plague struck europe and all the priests were shouting 'plague of god!!!',like idiots,while the scientists discovered the cause and the cure.who are these christians to now tell us to use the bible as a reference for questions on disease?

musKeeto:
wrong...

Lol. I think that passage is also in the link I provided.

when the aids virus came on the scene,the pastors lied that god sent it to us because of fornication,but now that it has been discovered that aids can be cured by bone marrow transplant,the church is now silent!!!

there was a family in europe whose members had blue skin and scientists discovered a way to cure it by giving them a chemical to drink which made their blue skin normal.Before then they had gone to church,and guess what the pastor said...............RETURN OF THE SMURFS!!!

@op

you mean diseases are not a perfect design? there can be a logical argument to support that.

Pastor Kun:

On the contrary if the evolution myth is true, one would expect that after millions of years of trial and error, evolution should have gotten it right by now and eliminated all diseases. Thanx for bringing up this topic; another glaring evidence that the theory of evolution is full of holes and it's delusional.

First,you never attempted to answer the question(Typical).
And second to say that evolution is a myth and that the theory of evolution is delusional displays a surprising amount of ignorance bordering on.......(I dont want to say the word).

Evolution is a process, a constant and continnueing process. There is no finality to it. It is an eternal process. Change is the only constant in the universe.
As such, no point in the process is or can be deemed to be the attainment of perfection.

Creation, on the other hand , supposes a finished process, an end-product, a finality.
The end-product is supposed to be flawless.

diluminati: @op

you mean diseases are not a perfect design? there can be a logical argument to support that.

I dont understand what you mean.

Pastor Kun:

On the contrary if the evolution myth is true, one would expect that after millions of years of trial and error, evolution should have gotten it right by now and eliminated all diseases. Thanx for bringing up this topic; another glaring evidence that the theory of evolution is full of holes and it's delusional.

Wrt the bolded....evolution is not a person who performs trial and error and get things right. Evolution is a process and it is a continuum. It does not have a destination, it doesnt have a plan or target of what it tries to achieve. We see micro evolution everyday, bugs develop immunity to insecticides, bacteria and viruses develop immunity to drugs over time..... even we see some kind of evolution in humans... What do you think is the cause of sickle cell?
God on the other hand in personified, yet there are diseases, when you people say sin is the cause of dieases, was it after Adam sinned that God created bacteria and viruses. If Alexandra Flemming was thinking this way, he would have discounted the power of penicilin.
Google is your friend

Pastor Kun:

On the contrary if the evolution myth is true, one would expect that after millions of years of trial and error, evolution should have gotten it right by now and eliminated all diseases. Thanx for bringing up this topic; another glaring evidence that the theory of evolution is full of holes and it's delusional.

wrong. Bacteria evolve as well.


Try again

Creationists do accept evolution in microorganisms etc, they accept gene mutation, they accept the emergence of species, in other words, evolution itself.

Kay 17: Creationists do accept evolution in microorganisms etc, they accept gene mutation, they accept the emergence of species, in other words, evolution itself.

Wrong again, whilst there is no doubt about adaptation which some daft scientist stretch to mean evolution, there remains not a single shred of evidence to establish evolution apart from the hallucination in the mind of some of it's believers. Let's even assume the daft assertion is true. What that means is that species must have been programmed to evolve over time. The big kweshun is who programmed them to evolve assuming the myth is true?

It is beyond that. Evolution is an integrative force in biology and medicine. Scientific fields and explanations have been based on the theory of evolution. The reason for the diversity of life is being owed to it.

It would do you no good, to keep regarding evolution as a rival religion/myth. Attacking evolution is attacking Science.

^^^
There is absolutely nothing scientific about evolution. It's never been observed or even proven it remains at best a hallucination in the mind of some deluded scientists who have refused to accept the truth staring them in the face.

Pastor Kun: ^^^
There is absolutely nothing scientific about evolution. It's never been observed or even proven it remains at best a hallucination in the mind of some deluded scientists who have refused to accept the truth staring them in the face.

I your words, an organism can adapt but cannot evolve? If so, it it would mean that adaptation is some kind of temporary measure and not a permannet change in the organism.

As an analogy, lets say you travel to the UK and you adapt yourself to her laws and customs. That makes you an African Negro who has adapted to the British weather,laws and traditions. You have not magically transformed into a white Briton. That is adaptation.

Evolution, on the other hand, is a slow , gradual and permanent biological transformation of the organism.
So be careful when you claim to accept adaptation but reject evolution.

the 'three toed skink' is a lizard from australia and 50 years ago they all layed eggs, but now, they give birth to their young live,just like humans.but trust pastor kun,after reading this he will still go and say that there is no single shred of evidence for evolution!!!

No you...
God, from nothing, said "Let there be light", and from there we get here. This was about 6,000 years ago. It was very elaborate, some great conundrums had to be solved just so he could test our faith (which is one of his primary goals), but in the end it was worth it. You see, he was lonely so he did what any good omnipotent would, he built the rock he couldn't pick up while still remaining omnipotent, a lot of times. Eg creating evil but not doing anything about it, free will that is not free will as it is all his will, loneliness he couldn't cure, human stupidity incurable etc etc, to make things interesting for himself. He also made some brilliant discoveries during this period, like determine his omniscience with 100% certainty (and eventually tell us, his special new toys, this with a straight face) thus illustrating how blind faith works by example. Anyways despite this brilliant feat and others, omniscience combined with omnipotence got in the way of his free will and caused a few other worrisome complications which he omnipotently couldn't solve because he wasn't omnipotent, so he chose to forget some stuff, while remembering it at the same time. Then he got to work. He built a galaxy, made billions of stars, figured he still had time and so he built billions of these galaxies as well. He might have just used a few flash bulbs to cut corners, but we'll never know because he then went on troll us by establishing certain physical limits like the speed of light (virtually ensuring we never get there to physically to confirm).

He was careful to put us at the centre of all this so he wouldn't get lost. Then he created dinosaur bones and hid them in the ground. He also created the great apes and confirmed that when the age of the universe was determined by scientists it would say something like 13 billion years ago to test our faith (again). Creating genes and whatnot (his protege google turns this up when I google "evolution proof" http://www.evolutionfaq.com/articles/five-proofs-evolution) and establishing that Occam's razor applies just about everywhere. He then made us, his magnum opus, in his image. Since he knew everything and also didn't know everything, there were a lot of trials and tribulations. He made Adam and Eve in his great nature themed sky resort. He was disappointed that another rock he couldn't lift (Satan, I can't remember when he went about creating him and a few other things, but he did) tried to show them how misguided their creator was and kicked them all out. Some of their descendants looked at him the wrong way so he had to get rid of them a couple of times (they also ate shellfish). He was also a little immature being both infinitely old and young, so sexually he experimented a lot and was said to enjoy watching humans fornicate and stuff (this was before the internet and video, print, etc). There were rumours about him swooning for Satan, who had a bit of a bad boy reputation. To squish these he might have gone overboard with the whole do not lay with another man thing (in his defense, seems like Satan used to brag). But eventually he matured and got things just about right enough to keep him from getting bored without causing too much pain.

So yeah, he still prefers watching us live (being virtually with us) rather than via technology. He considers shows like Big Brother to be amateurish for instance, so he's in all billions of galaxies in every quark at the same time as he doesn't want to miss anything (he's not a fan of string instruments at the moment, if he changes his mind then he'll allow for ways to verify string theory to show up, I just bring this up to show you his relationship with science eg the earth being flat before and such). He just really enjoys testing our faith and trolling as well. Like your average troll, he's just lonely and misunderstood. Being omnipotent he could have just wished his loneliness away but this way we get to him owe him since he didn't have to create us. Do not fall for the lies of science, else he'll send you to the place he sent Satan after their last fallout. He just wants friends who would die, kill, etc for him without question.

Well, actually this is just my opinion. I'll edit for clarity eventually

Niflheim: the bubonic plague struck europe and all the priests were shouting 'plague of god!!!',like idiots,while the scientists discovered the cause and the cure.who are these christians to now tell us to use the bible as a reference for questions on disease?

Very good point

Hmmm.
Am disappointed. I was hoping that some of our most vocal religious brethren would come on this post to explain how sin, adam's sin, causes us to suffer disease and death.
Oh well,I guess no takers.

Yawn.

plaetton: Hmmm.
Am disappointed. I was hoping that some of our most vocal religious brethren would come on this post to explain how sin, adam's sin, causes us to suffer disease and death.
Oh well,I guess no takers.

Yawn.

If na logicboy open the thread, dem go dey flex religious muscle like hulk hogan... e be lyk say dis one pass them..

plaetton:

First,you never attempted to answer the question(Typical).
And second to say that evolution is a myth and that the theory of evolution is delusional displays a surprising amount of ignorance bordering on.......(I dont want to say the word).

Evolution is a process, a constant and continnueing process. There is no finality to it. It is an eternal process. Change is the only constant in the universe.
As such, no point in the process is or can be deemed to be the attainment of perfection.

Creation, on the other hand , supposes a finished process, an end-product, a finality.
The end-product is supposed to be flawless.

Eternal process??

I thought u guys never believed in eternity......

Oh so u do??

Very good......

plaetton: Hmmm.
Am disappointed. I was hoping that some of our most vocal religious brethren would come on this post to explain how sin, adam's sin, causes us to suffer disease and death.
Oh well,I guess no takers.

Yawn.

Even if we explain from now till forever u'll never wanna reason d bible's way.....

I asked ya brother atheist why we get old,but answers I didn't get.....

Read d bible to know why we are in this mess u guys will say NOOO........

What do u want us to do??

Time is what will teach u guys

plaetton:

Apparently, that is not case. Just like a badly made product,the human product is beset with all manners of disfuctions and malfuctions, and without any reset or reboot buttons.

And the Monkeys we supposedly evolved from never got diseases? I reckon Natural Selection would have removed the vulnerabilities?
Natural Selection would have generally boosted life span extensively, but we Africans still stand on 50-60? Like the Bible says 120 tops.

Likely counter that Natural Selection would have improved the vector capabilities?

Disease came with the fall. And when will the OP get that ID has no need of explaining diseases because it isn't creationism.

Mobinga:





And the Monkeys we supposedly evolved from never got diseases? I reckon Natural Selection would have removed the vulnerabilities?
Natural Selection would have generally boosted life span extensively, but we Africans still stand on 50-60? Like the Bible says 120 tops.

Likely counter that Natural Selection would have improved the vector capabilities?

Uyi Iredia: Disease came with the fall. And when will the OP get that ID has no need of explaining diseases because it isn't creationism.

ID and creationism are not science. hey cant explain anything about disease.

If disease came with the fall, how did entirely new diseases appear? In the 19th century and beyond?

Pastor Kun: ^^^
There is absolutely nothing scientific about evolution. It's never been observed or even proven it remains at best a hallucination in the mind of some deluded scientists who have refused to accept the truth staring them in the face.

LOL so what is scientific or true about creationism. it is neither sensible or reasonable that the universe was created in six days less than 10,000 years ago by a perfect omniscient being. but the actual fact is that this being was created, replicated and sustained in the minds of deluded religionists who refuse to accept the glaring scientific truth staring at them in the face.

take a rest, pal. sensible chrstians dont talk against evolution anymore, at best they interpret their creation story with a little modification in the light of scientific undisputable facts. thats a FACT!!

Mobinga:

And the Monkeys we supposedly evolved from never got diseases? I reckon Natural Selection would have removed the vulnerabilities?
Natural Selection would have generally boosted life span extensively, but we Africans still stand on 50-60? Like the Bible says 120 tops.

Likely counter that Natural Selection would have improved the vector capabilities?

You've answered your own question. Germs are also living things, and they also evolve. If humans develop a way consistently wipe out the germ that causes the disease, then that germ will be under evolutionary pressure to find a way around it. This is the reason why hospitals are full of antibiotic resistant "superbugs".

Another thing a consider is a germs don't actually benefit from killing their hosts. If the host dies, then all the germs inside it die too. Very virulent diseases like ebola tend not to do well in the long run because they kill their victims too fast. So ebola descends on a village, kills everyone inside and peters out once it runs out of victims. On the other hand, intestinal roundworms are one of the most successful and widespread human parasites because spread quietly, they don't kill their victims and they hardly cause any disadvantages to their hosts.

That means that germs tend to evolve to become less virulent over time as the pathogens adapt to the hosts and vice versa. In nature, the rule is adapt or die. The virus that caused the great flu pandemic of 1918 failed to adapt and became extinct the day its last victim died. Meanwhile the germ that causes syphilis evolved from a "you have 3 months left to live" disease 600 years ago to a chronic illness only kills you after decades of spreading to all your girlfriends.

Evolution is simply natural selection happening over a long time. Natural selection simply means that inheritable traits that give a living thing a survival advantage tend to become more common in the population over time. This a such a basic and obvious thing that its hard to imagine why any sensible person will deny that its happening.

Think of it this way: If a deadly new zombie apocalypse disease emerged and you and your kids were the only ones immune to it. Billions will die but most of your descendants will grow to adulthood and have kids of their own. Within a few centuries, the world will be full of little mobingas, the majority of whom will be immune to the zombie virus. And because the original Mobinga had black skin, a big nose and a tiny JohnThomas, so will a large percentage of the world's population.

Evolution is little incremental changes occurring over time. It's hard to appreciate it in the short span of a human lifespan because it occurs so slowly in larger organisms with long life-cycles. But life has existed on earth for hundreds of millions of years. Try and wrap your mind around how long a million years is, then you'll understand how it is impossible for living things not to change dramatically within that scale of time.