@Odumchi

Moors are not a distinct or self-defined people. Medieval and early modern Europeans applied the name primarily to Berbers, but also at various times to Arabs, Muslim Iberians[1] and West Africans from Mali and Niger who had been absorbed into the Almoravid dynasty. Mainstream scholars observed in 1911 that "The term 'Moors' has no real ethnological value." The Andalusian Moors of the late Medieval era inhabited the Iberian Peninsula after the Moorish conquests of the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates, and the final Umayyad conquest of Hispania. The Moors' rule stretched at times as far as modern-day Mauritania, West African countries, and the Senegal River. Earlier, the Classical Romans interacted with (and later conquered) parts of Mauretania, a state that covered northern portions of modern Morocco and much of north western and central Algeria during the classical period. The people of the region were noted in Classical literature as the Mauri.

In 711 AD, the now Islamic Moors conquered Visigothic Christian Hispania. Their general, Tariq ibn-Ziyad, brought most of Iberia under Islamic rule in an eight-year campaign. They moved northeast across the Pyrenees Mountains, but were defeated by the Frank Charles Martel at the Battle of Poitiers in 732 AD.
The Moorish state fell into civil conflict in the 750s. The Moors ruled in North Africa and in most of the Iberian peninsula for several decades. They were resisted in areas in the northwest (such as Asturias, where they were defeated at the battle of Covadonga) and the largely Basque regions in the Pyrenees. Though the number of Moor colonists was small, many native Iberian inhabitants converted to Islam. According to Ronald Segal, by 1200 AD, some 5.6 million of Iberia's 7 million inhabitants, nearly all native inhabitants, were Muslim. In the late 15th century, the persecution of Muslims and forced conversion to Catholicism caused a mass exodus.In a process of decline, the Al Andalus had broken up into a number of Islamic-ruled fiefdoms, or taifas, which were partly consolidated under the Caliphate of Córdoba.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

shymmex:

Nah, can you post a link?

That's the thing, all the book sources one can find online (or at least which I have found online so far) seem to just be one or two sentence summaries about Songhai having a fleet of large war canoes or ships on the river(s). Anyone can find these modern sources with enough searching online. But I would like to read the original source for this information, not some modern scholar's summary.

I remember a while back, when Ivan van Sertima, in a bid to support his false hyperdiffusionist theory of some black African seafarers reaching the Americas and inspiring some or all of Mesoamerican civilizations or impacting heavily on them, put forward a claim about a Malian fleet sailing to the Americas, one of the objections from a scholar to his claim about that Malian ruler sending out an expeditionary fleet across the Atlantic to the Americas was that (black) Africans didn't build ships big enough to do that - which of course, sounds ludicrous in light of the fact that the Vikings reached the Americas using what are essentially large canoes, and also in light of Thor Heyerdahl's voyage.

I don't care for van Sertima's theory on Mesoamerica, which I regard as false, but this notion of all African ships being too small for those kind of voyages is something which I view with skepticism.

.

SmoothCrim: Why are all of you so obsessed with African imperialism in Europe??

It makes it seem like you are desperate to counter European colonialism in Africa by focusing on African imperialism in Europe.

This is the wrong premise.

The correct premise is the simple fact that Colonialism, Imperialism and other similar ills are BARBARIC, USELESS and embarrassing history which belongs in the dustbin. Why would anyone apart from a very sick person want to relive that barbarian era

It is embarrassing history, shameful history when a group of Barbarians overrun a place and call it an empire! In the end, learn from history rather than finding joy in others misfortune.

To reiterate!!!

This is the boat they found in Nigeria (about 10,000 years old)

SmoothCrim: Why are all of you so obsessed with African imperialism in Europe??

It makes it seem like you are desperate to counter European colonialism in Africa by focusing on African imperialism in Europe.

Well the guy that started the "black nobility of ancient Europe" thread may be interested in that. And shymmex may have some partial interest in that. But I don't think many other people (including myself) have shown much interest in that.

This is the wrong premise.

The correct premise is the simple fact that Colonialism, Imperialism and other similar ills are BARBARIC, USELESS and embarrassing history which belongs in the dustbin. Why would anyone apart from a very sick person want to relive that barbarian erahuh

It is embarrassing history, shameful history when a group of Barbarians overrun a place and call it an empire! In the end, learn from history rather than finding joy in others misfortune.

True.

But disputes over land and trade are almost inevitable between expansive cultures/groups, right?

So when one of these groups defeats another group, it's not always mere barbarity. Sometimes it's just one group of warriors besting another group in a fair enough fight over political and territorial supremacy.

I think most people, whether African or non-African, are far more interested in the social complexity and culture of ancient empires than in the details about their conquests.

SmoothCrim:

To reiterate!!!

No one is obsessed with African imperialism of Europe, this thread was created to celebrate the Songhai Empire..

This is the culture section..

http://stewartsynopsis.com/europe_conquered_by_africans.htm


YEAHHHHHHHH we conquered Europe YEAAAAHHHHHHH Some of our West African ancestors joined up With North African Barbarians to become Barbarians in Europe!


YEAH!!!


WOOO HOOOOOOOOO!!!!


We too took advantage of them!

YEAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Barbarian life!!!!!






See how dumb it sounds??

Barbarian culture is embarrassing and should not be celebrated!!! It's not an empire it is embarrassing history which one should try to hide.

NOW, that I know this, I can finally balance my checkbook! Get out of my face Nigga!!! I'm a Bakassi man from Nigga-Area(Nigeria)!!!


Time to get on my small boat and head over to Spain to conquer it again! YEAHHHH WOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Barbarian life!!! Yes sir!!!


Stop being dumb and discuss history well please!!!!!

shymmex: This is the boat they found in Nigeria (about 10,000 years old)

Bakassi!!!!!!!!

Unfortuneteky this people are being eaten by this Northern rebellion in Mali, I really like their simplicity, beauty and calm but they need to have a warrior mentality especially right now

SmoothCrim: Gold Gold GOLD!!


[img]http://3.bp..com/_DnXDQGcPK04/SIkJJCubI_I/AAAAAAAAAnc/YYC1ajQWsQk/s320/gold_bars.jpg[/img]

The heart of ancient West African culture!!!!

Gold had no value in southeastern Nigeria. SE Gold was bronze.

Only Ghanaian rule CAN SAVE West Africa! The last of the truly Ancient cultures of West Africa(and even Africa) that is still alive!!


GIVE ME GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ezeagu:

Gold had no value in southeastern Nigeria. SE Gold was bronze.

That is why that area is not historically part of ancient West Africa and would have been of little interest to ancient West Africans.


I think that area is where a new expansive migration started to take root and ultimately led to the Bantu Migration out of Cameroon. That is for another thread though.

Nayah: Unfortuneteky this people are being eaten by this Northern rebellion in Mali, I really like their simplicity, beauty and calm but they need to have a warrior mentality especially right now

That rebellion is dead! Now Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is there trying to radicalize the historically moderate friendly Islam of Mali West Africa. You see the Islam in West Africa proper(not including Barbarian Northern Nigeria which has its Islamic roots outside of West Africa). Is generally peaceful, and abhors radicalism and other ills. That is why you won't find people in Mali as interested in joining Al Qaeda as you will in Northern Nigeria!!! In fact, this abhorrence of radical Islam is not only in West Africa proper but, the Maghreb region of North Africa(Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco etc etc. )

SmoothCrim:

That is why that area is not historically part of ancient West Africa and would have been of little interest to ancient West Africans.


I think that area is where a new expansive migration started to take root and ultimately led to the Bantu Migration out of Cameroon. That is for another thread though.

Southeastern Nigeria has always been linked to West Africa, it geographically is in West Africa. Could you explain what you mean by little interest to ancient West Africans?

I will be honest with you and say I don't consider a lot Nigeria to be part of West Africa! Like India I would Consider Nigeria a Sub-Continent! In fact there are more people in Nigeria than all of West Africa combined!!!

ezeagu:

Southeastern Nigeria has always been linked to West Africa, it geographically is in West Africa. Could you explain what you mean by little interest to ancient West Africans?

Ancient West Africans only cared about Gold Gold Gold!!!!!!!!

That's not true, there's little gold interest in Nigeria.

ezeagu: That's not true, there's little gold interest in Nigeria.

Because, Nigeria historically lacked the essence of Ancient West African cultures!!!

SmoothCrim:

That rebellion is dead! Now Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is there trying to radicalize the historically moderate friendly Islam of Mali West Africa. You see the Islam in West Africa proper(not including Barbarian Northern Nigeria which has its Islamic roots outside of West Africa). Is generally peaceful, and abhors radicalism and other ills. That is why you won't find people in Mali as interested in joining Al Qaeda as you will in Northern Nigeria!!! In fact, this abhorrence of radical Islam is not only in West Africa proper but, the Maghreb region of North Africa(Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco etc etc. )

You might be right but they need to preserve their culture and ethnic groups from these rebels, and I find them quite silent about it and that's quite sad

Nayah:
You might be right but they need to preserve their culture and ethnic groups from these rebels, and I find them quite silent about it and that's quite sad

Blame French colonialism. When the French colonize you they take every ounce of dignity you have!!

Somebody should get that kid some shares in Barrick Gold so he can pipe down about gold already and stop derailing.

SmoothCrim:

Because, Nigeria historically lacked the essence of Ancient West African cultures!!!

LMAO you seem to like clashes...actually I disagree West Africa is just a location gathering many Kingdoms and culture, how come big Nigeria couldn't be part of this Great History?

SmoothCrim:

Blame French colonialism. When the French colonize you they take every ounce of dignity you have!!

Nop, I don't think so, I'm from Cameroon and I'm sorry we're not like your description. Google Ruben Um Nyobe on the Net then we can discuss...

Nayah:
LMAO you seem to like clashes...actually I disagree West Africa is just a location gathering many Kingdoms and culture, how come big Nigeria couldn't be part of this Great History?

In Ancient West Africa if you did not have gold you were useless...Considered a joke!!!

There is basically no Gold in Nigeria!

Nigeria OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GIVE ME ANCIENT WEST AFRICA!!!





I am semi-trolling but, somewhat serious!!!

Nayah:
Nop, I don't think so, I'm from Cameroon and I'm sorry we're not like your description. Google Ruben Um Nyobe on the Net then we can discuss...

It is just a personal observation.

Nigeria may be debatable but, Cameroon is CERTAINLY historically NOT a West African country!!!

SmoothCrim:

Because, Nigeria historically lacked the essence of Ancient West African cultures!!!

Kanem-Bornu? You've heard of it right?

The issue of whether they traded in gold is not so clear cut (different sources make different claims), but they were around as early as some of these other places we're talking about, and were also involved in Sahelian and North African trade.

SmoothCrim

Don't derail the thread, plz..

yes do not derail the thread @smoothcrim stop trolling and share what you know ......

SmoothCrim: Nigeria may be debatable but, Cameroon is CERTAINLY historically NOT a West African country!!!

again