[size=14pt]Did Muhammad have slaves? [/size]


I have discussed this issue with some of my muslim friends about some years ago. One of them was a muslim leader in school and he was quite blunt in saying that there was slavery at the time but Muhammad freed some slaves. This is a very touchy question but it has to be answered if one is to convince unbelievers that Islam is the right path.


As someone, who didnt have time to read the Quran at the time, I googled the question and a link from the BBC was one of first links that I checked out;


The BBC on Islam and slavery

Muhammad and slavery

The Prophet Muhammad did not try to[b] abolish slavery, and bought, sold, captured, and ow[/b]ned slaves himself. But he insisted that slave owners treat their slaves well and stressed the virtue of freeing slaves.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml#h3

Now it is easy to say that the BBC is biased but then, the BBC has journalistic standards and many muslim commentators/contibutors/scholars on many of its programmes.


Further googling the issue, Wikislam states that Muhammad said that there is a reward for freeing slaves some slaves with quotes from hadith;

www.nairaland.com/attachments/764966_Reward_slave_islam_png8a1b3c38af9fb30930fe81d8372027f0




WikiIslam also quotes that some hadith (Sahih Bukhari) in saying that Muhammad sold some slaves;

www.nairaland.com/attachments/764964_sold_slaves_islam_3_gif2667ced04ec09dcfc1347474e4f1d2a6




WikiIslam also quotes some hadith (Zad al Ma'ad)in saying that muhammad bought more slaves than sold;

www.nairaland.com/attachments/764965_bought_slaves_islam_pngfde088db2b4c02614c6f11c1f7de399c



So, is the information wrong? Or Muhammad did not own slaves?

first this isn't an honest question because you have raised it before and you got the answers.

the Prophet (sa) bought slave,when he wanted to free Bilal al-Habashi (ra) an ethiopian slave who was being tortured by his masters for embracing Islam.

the Prophet (sa) got PRISONERS OF WAR who are called "slaves".

the Prophet (sa) sold slaves because based on the Quran,you either free them or allow them to make ransom for themselves but you dont keep them as slaves.(Quran 47:4).

the Prophet (sa) made Zaid (ra),a slave,his adopted son,that Zaid became known as "Zaid Ibn Muhammad".

how many of his wives were "slaves" he married to break the social taboo and racism that an arab ("superior race" ) cannot marry a slave;and those female "slaves" he married became "mothers of the believers"!!!

freeing slaves is a virtuos deed according to the Holy Quran.

"…But it is righteousness…to spend of your substance out of love for Him…for the ransom of slaves, "[2:177]

now if we are to go strictly by the Quranic language and Islamic injunction,calling fellow humans "slaves" or "abeed" (in arabic) is wrong/forbidden.the Quran does not address them as "slaves".it is more proper to address them as "prisoners of war" because this is what we read in the Quran:

"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and 'Nabuwah' (prophethood), then he should say to men: Be my slaves rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be sustenance providers (Rabaniyoon) because of your teaching the Book and your studying (it yourselves)."[3:79]


and please,since like i said your question is not honest,do not bother replying to my post because you're seeking argument.how can an honest question have you copy from wikiIslam? it is not because i cannot argue or counter you and disprove your claims but because we have gone through this before.i am not going to go over it again.so please review the other thread we engaged on this topic:

https://www.nairaland.com/950069/arab-muslims-created-slavery#10992597

LagosShia: first this isn't an honest question because you have raised it before and you got the answers.

the Prophet (sa) bought slave,when he wanted to free Bilal al-Habashi (ra) an ethiopian slave who was being tortured by his masters for embracing Islam.

the Prophet (sa) got PRISONERS OF WAR who are called "slaves".

the Prophet (sa) sold slaves because based on the Quran,you either free them or allow make to ransom themselves but you dont keep them as slaves.(Quran 47:4).

the Prophet (sa) made Zaid (ra),a slave,his adopted son,that Zaid became known as "Zaid Ibn Muhammad".

freeing slaves is a virtuos deed according to the Holy Quran.

"…But it is righteousness…to spend of your substance out of love for Him…for the ransom of slaves, "[2:177]

now if we are to go strictly by the Quranic language and Islamic injunction,calling fellow humans "slaves" or "abeed" (in arabic) is wrong.the Quran does not address them as "slaves".it is more proper to address them as "prisoners of war" because this is what we read in the Quran:

"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and 'Nabuwah' (prophethood), then he should say to men: Be my slaves rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be sustenance providers (Rabaniyoon) because of your teaching the Book and your studying (it yourselves)."[3:79]


and please,since like i said your question is not honest,do not bother replying to my post because you're seeking argument.how can an honest question have you copy from wikiIslam? it is not because i cannot argue or counter you and disprove your claims but because we have gone through this before.i am not going to go over it agsin.so please review the other thread we engaged on this topic:

https://www.nairaland.com/950069/arab-muslims-created-slavery#10992597

Shameless!


1) I havent made a thread about Muhammad and slavery before. Yes, I have talked about slavery but I have never directly asked about the prohet and his dealingas the topic of the thread


2) When you sell someone to a fellow citizen, that is slavery. So get out with your "POW" propaganda. Slaves were traded.

@OP

are you looking for a master to own you?

this topic and insisting to implicate Islam in "slavery" which is infamously promoted by your christian masters is sick.it looks like your obsession.

if you're looking for a master to enslave you,i think you're in London;that would make a perfect place to find a master.

Rafidi :
@OP

are you looking for a master to own you?

this topic and insisting to implicate Islam in "slavery" which is infamously promoted by your christian masters is sick.it looks like your obsession.

if you're looking for a master to enslave you,i think you're in London;that would make a perfect place to find a master.

lol....I am not a christian. Not even religious!


Rafidi ignores that it was actually slavery that brought Islam to Nigeria where Arabs took our fellow Nigerians and made Eunuchs out of some of them.


Rafidi chooses not to answer wether Muhammad had slaves.

Logicbwoy:
2) When you sell someone to a fellow citizen, that is slavery. So get out with your "POW" propaganda. Slaves were traded.

there is a big difference here.the europeans for instance who came to africa,made exploitations and war to catch slaves.in Islam,the battles that were fought were defensive battles to protect the lives of Muslims,who were oppressed and their lives threatened.so the Muslims ended up winning those battles and taking prisoners.the intended purpose of getting those prisoners in the first place was defense because those prisoners were once waging war against the Muslims and trying to or even oppressing them.the Muslims did not embark on campaigns to capture fellow humans and trade them,as the europeans left their land miles away with the sole aim of enslaving africans and treating them like fruits you pluck from trees and sell.

Rafidi :


there is a big difference here.the europeans for instance who came to africa,made exploitations and war to catch slaves.in Islam,the battles that were fought were defensive battles to protect the lives of Muslims,who were oppressed and their lives threatened.so the Muslims ended up winning those battles and taking prisoners.the intended purpose of getting those prisoners in the first place was defense because those prisoners were once waging war against the Muslims and trying to or even oppressing them.the Muslims did not embark on campaigns to capture fellow humans and trade them,as the europeans left their land miles away with the sole aim of enslaving africans and treating them like fruits you pluck from trees and sell.

lol....what wars were Arabs fighting in West Africa before the 16th century that they were taking slaves from there?


How did Islam come to Nigeria? Is it not slavery? Werent black slaves made into eunuchs?

Rafidi :


there is a big difference here.the europeans for instance who came to africa,made exploitations and war to catch slaves.in Islam,the battles that were fought were defensive battles to protect the lives of Muslims,who were oppressed and their lives threatened.so the Muslims ended up winning those battles and taking prisoners.the intended purpose of getting those prisoners in the first place was defense because those prisoners were once waging war against the Muslims and trying to or even oppressing them.the Muslims did not embark on campaigns to capture fellow humans and trade them,as the europeans left their land miles away with the sole aim of enslaving africans and treating them like fruits you pluck from trees and sell.

So you dont know that Arabs did the same thing as Europeans to West Africa? LMAO. You dont even know yourNigerian history how Arab muslims took slaves from West Africa. You dont even wonder why you have schools teaching Arabic to understand the Quran.

Logicbwoy:
lol....what wars were Arabs fighting in West Africa before the 16th century that they were taking slaves from there?

We are talking of Muhammad (sa) here.remember?

that is why i said it is futile to go over the topic over again.we already discussed many points in the other thread.review it.it looks you are idle and seeking attention as usual.

arabs are not all Muslims and not all Muslims are saints to follow what Islam says or what the Prophet (sa) did or did not do.alcohol is forbidden in Islam,but there are many Muslims who drink and commit sin.

How did Islam come to Nigeria? Is it not slavery? Werent black slaves made into eunuchs?

i dont think that is how Islam came to Nigeria.i even doubt the presence of arabs played any role,if there was ever arab presence.read about the salt and gold trade in timbuktu and ancient ghana.Islam spread in sub-sahara africa through trade and not through war.

LagosShia:

We are talking of Muhammad (sa) here.remember?

that is it is futile to go over the topic over again.we already discussed many points in the other thread.review it.

arabs are not all Muslims and not all Muslims are saint to follow what Islam says or what the Prophet (sa) did or did not do.alcohol is forbidden in Islam,but there are many Muslims who drink and commit sin.

What point did you discuss? You avoided the original post. Do you just ignore the Hadith that clearly states that Muhammad bought slaves or what?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/764965_bought_slaves_islam_pngfde088db2b4c02614c6f11c1f7de399c


Furthermore, the Arabs that came with slavery to West Africa were muslim. I am not talking about Jewish Arabs here. Please do not try to decieve and distort. Please have some dignity.

LagosShia:
i dont think that is how Islam came to Nigeria.i even doubt the presence of arabs played any role,if there was ever arab presence.read about the salt and gold trade in timbuktu and ancient ghana.Islam spread in sub-sahara africa through trade and not through war.

Islam came through trade. Slave trade. I dpont know who has been brainwashing you with false information that says otherwise. You need to read on facts on Islam and slavery.


Or are you suggesting that Arabs were buying yam and garri from West Africa?

Logicbwoy:


What point did you discuss? You avoided the original post. Do you just ignore the Hadith that clearly states that Muhammad bought slaves or what?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/764965_bought_slaves_islam_pngfde088db2b4c02614c6f11c1f7de399c

this is not a hadith.this is an account and a claim made by someone.

however,the identity of the person exchanged is not known and there are details that should be examined,assuming this claim is right that the above purported exchange took place.yet still,prisoners of war are to be freed or you make them ransom themselves within an appointed time.so if i exchange my prisoner for two,it is still within that stipulated condition.

Or are you suggesting that Arabs were buying yam and garri from West Africa?

i mentioned salt and gold trade,not yam and garri.

LagosShia:
this is not a hadith.this is an account and a claim made by someone.

however,the identity of the person exchanged is not known and there are details that should be examined,assuming this claim is right that the above purported exchange took place.yet still,prisoners of war are to be freed or you make them ransom themselves within an appointed time.so if i exchange my prisoner for two,it is still within that stipulated condition.




i mentioned salt and gold trade,not yam and garri.

This is good. So what about these claims of slave transactions;

www.nairaland.com/attachments/764964_sold_slaves_islam_3_gif2667ced04ec09dcfc1347474e4f1d2a6



Furthermore, Are you now denying that slaves were not taken from Nigeria and other parts of West Africa by Arab muslims? How did Islam come to Nigeria?


Are you now claiming that Islam came to Nigeria through trade in Salt?

Logicbwoy:

This is good. So what about these claims of slave transactions;

are you that slow? did i not explain that these must be part of the principle of freeing prisoners of war or allowing them to ransom themselves?

besides,i was talking about the first account you presented and stated it is not a hadith.that account even claims that the Prophet (sa) bought more than he sold slaves.that is a claim.besides,from all that i have read as Muslim so far,i have not come across one account that the Prophet (sa) left "slaves" before his death.in other words,before he passed away he must have freed them all.if he bought more than he sold,like that ridiculous claim is trying to make him more of a "slave merchant" than a prophet and religious teacher abiding by religious principles,we ought to have read about the hundreds or thousands of slaves he left behind and who inherited them. but we find no such account.

Furthermore, Are you now denying that slaves were not taken from Nigeria and other parts of West Africa by Arab muslims? How did Islam come to Nigeria?

Are you now claiming that Islam came to Nigeria through trade in Salt?

Islam came to sub-sahara africa through the salt and gold trade.this is what i read from history i studied.whether they took slaves from africa or not,i do not see how that brought Islam to Nigeria or africa.

the point i am making is that it was never through war that Islam came to sub-sahara africa.there was never any arab military presence.there was trade,interaction and cultural exchanges.

LagosShia:
are you that slow? did i not explain that these must be part of the principle of freeing prisoners of war or allowing them to ransom themselves?

besides,i was talking about the first account you presented and stated it is not a hadith.that account even claims that the Prophet (sa) bought more than he sold slaves.that is a claim.besides,from all that i have read as Muslim so far,i have not come across one account that the Prophet (sa) left "slaves" before his death.in other words,before he passed away he must have freed them all.if he bought more than he sold,like that ridiculous claim is trying to make him more of a "slave merchant" than a prophet and religious teacher abiding by religious principles,we ought to have read about the hundreds or thousands of slaves he left behind and who inherited them. but we find no such account.

When you sell people from muslim to muslim, is that not slavery? Your prisoner of war theory does not mean anything when you start selling people like property.

Why are you ignoring these claims? Muhammad sold slaves to another muslim;


www.nairaland.com/attachments/764964_sold_slaves_islam_3_gif2667ced04ec09dcfc1347474e4f1d2a6

LagosShia:
Islam came to sub-sahara africa through the salt and gold trade.this is what i read from history i studied.whether they took slaves from africa or not,i do not see how that brought Islam to Nigeria or africa.

the point i am making is that it was never through war that Islam came to sub-sahara africa.there was never any arab military presence.there was trade,interaction and cultural exchanges.

Islam did not come to West Africa through trade. That I am 100% sure of. It came the same way christianity came; Slavery and colonization. Do you think that it is by mouth that you get people to sell their brothers and sisters to you? It is by conquering or dominating them.

Slaves were obtained through conquest, tribute from vassal states (in the first such treaty, Nubia was required to provide hundreds of male and female slaves), offspring (children of slaves were also slaves, but since many slaves were castrated this was not as common as it had been in the Roman empire), and purchase. The latter method provided the majority of slaves, and at the borders of the Islamic Empire vast number of new slaves were castrated ready for sale (Islamic law did not allow mutilation of slaves, so it was done before they crossed the border). The majority of these slaves came from Europe and Africa -- there were always enterprising locals ready to kidnap or capture their fellow countrymen.

Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from [b]West Africa, from Chad [/b]to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa.

http://africanhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/IslamRoleSlavery01.htm

Logicbwoy:

When you sell people from muslim to muslim, is that not slavery? Your prisoner of war theory does not mean anything when you start selling people like property.

Why are you ignoring these claims? Muhammad sold slaves to another muslim;

you can buy a "slave" and free him or try to teach him the religion.you are ransoming him.

or if you have one that you don't need to ransom himself by working for you or he does not want to convert,then you sell him off.he has to ransom himself or you must free him.he cannot remain a "slave" in the hand of a Muslim.now you may ask,why should a Muslim sell a prisoner of war that was captured after battle? let me give you an instance from our time.when america helped to liberate kuwait from saddam's invasion,america was rewarded.likewise for the oppression the unbelievers made the muslims experience,and also engaging them in battle in which muslims also were killed even though they won the battle,there must be compensation.also,the muslims either made weapons or bought them to fight;and weapons could have got damaged or lost in the process of battle others imposed on them.if those captured become Muslim from their heart,then you let them free.if they dont,you sell them off and use the money as compensation and let them labor or you use them for labor for an appointed time and then allow them to go.these are rules of war.

LagosShia:

you can buy a "slave" and free him or try to teach him the religion.you are ransoming him.

or if you have one that you don't need to ransom himself by working for you or he does not want to convert,then you sell him off.he has to ransom himself or you must free him.he cannot remain a "slave" in the hand of a Muslim.now you may ask,why should a Muslim sell a prisoner of war that was captured after battle? let me give you an instance from our time.when america helped to liberate kuwait from saddam's invasion,america was rewarded.likewise for the oppression the unbelievers made the muslims experience,and also engaging them in battle in which muslims also were killed even though they won the battle,there must be compensation.also,the muslims either made weapons or bought them to fight;and weapons could have got damaged or lost in the process of battle others imposed on them.if those captured become Muslim from their heart,then you let them free.if they dont,you sell them off and use the money as compensation and let them labor or you use them for labor for an appointed time and then allow them to go.these are rules of war.

Was Muhammad "freeing" slaves when he sold them to other muslims (as claimed by Bukhari)?

Logicbwoy:


Was Muhammad "freeing" slaves when he sold them to other muslims (as claimed by Bukhari)?

the hadiths you mentioned talk of him buying or paying for or ransoming or freeing a "slave".

and even if he sold a "slave",i think i have already explained the circumstances that makes that acceptable.

besides,we are talking on hadiths that are not verified and we do not know their grade.

LagosShia:

the hadiths you mentioned talk of him buying or paying for or ransoming or freeing a "slave".

and even if he sold a "slave",i think i have already explained the circumstances that makes that acceptable.

besides,we are talking on hadiths that are not verified and we do not know their grade.

Nope, the first quote shows Muhammad selling a slave to another muslim (No'aim). How can there be any justification for selling a slave? You need to rethink your morals/ethics

www.nairaland.com/attachments/764964_sold_slaves_islam_3_gif2667ced04ec09dcfc1347474e4f1d2a6


So now the hadith are unverified? Isnt Buhkari well cited?

first let me treat your earlier stubborness i left unattended to because i was rushing to pray.

Islam did not come to West Africa through trade. That I am 100% sure of. It came the same way christianity came; Slavery and colonization. Do you think that it is by mouth that you get people to sell their brothers and sisters to you? It is by conquering or dominating them.

no where in the evidence you presented did i read that Islam spread through slavery in sub-sahara africait is not written there.in fact what was written there is about nubia.and i earlier stated that in sub-sahara africa no arab army ever stepped foot.Islam spread through trade.and that even if among arabs there were those who took part in slavery contrary to islamic injunctions,that they were on their own.the main trading that was done between north-south was salt and gold.

you can claim christianity came through slavery because there is evidence that even the church supported the european policy on slavery.also,the europeans colonized and came with their armies.the arabs again never came with an army to sub-sahara africa to colonize.it was through trade and cultural interaction islam spread.

also,i fail to udnerstand how slavery (taking slaves abroad) can serve as machanism to spread religion when there is no colonization.

Logicbwoy:

Nope, the first quote shows Muhammad selling a slave to another muslim (No'aim). How can there be any justification for selling a slave? You need to rethink your morals/ethics

never mind selling.this was the explanation i gave you on why a "slave" or rather a prisoner of war should ransom himself:

you can buy a "slave" and free him or try to teach him the religion.you are ransoming him.

or if you have one that you don't need to ransom himself by working for you or he does not want to convert,then you sell him off.he has to ransom himself or you must free him.he cannot remain a "slave" in the hand of a Muslim.now you may ask,why should a Muslim sell a prisoner of war that was captured after battle? let me give you an instance from our time.when america helped to liberate kuwait from saddam's invasion,america was rewarded.likewise for the oppression the unbelievers made the muslims experience,and also engaging them in battle in which muslims also were killed even though they won the battle,there must be compensation.also,the muslims either made weapons or bought them to fight;and weapons could have got damaged or lost in the process of battle others imposed on them.if those captured become Muslim from their heart,then you let them free.if they dont,you sell them off and use the money as compensation and let them labor or you use them for labor for an appointed time and then allow them to go.these are rules of war.

So now the hadith are unverified? Isnt Buhkari well cited?

to start with bukhari is a Sunni hadith compilation.i could have easily used that and excuse myself and tell you that i do not discuss or defend hadiths found in Sunni compilations.but i did not do that.i tried to analyze them.even if they were found in Shia compilations or books of hadith,each hadith must be examined,verified and graded.we did not do that.but again never mind as there is nothing that cannot be explained or defended from the hadiths you copied in bukahri.

LagosShia: first let me treat your earlier stubborness i left unattended to because i was rushing to pray.



no where in the evidence you presented did i read that Islam spread through slavery in sub-sahara africait is not written there.in fact what was written there is about nubia.and i earlier stated that in sub-sahara africa no arab army ever stepped foot.Islam spread through trade.and that even if among arabs there were those who took part in slavery contrary to islamic injunctions,that they were on their own.the main trading that was done between north-south was salt and gold.

you can claim christianity came through slavery because there is evidence that even the church supported the european policy on slavery.also,the europeans colonized and came with their armies.the arabs again never came with an army to sub-sahara africa to colonize.it was through trade and cultural interaction islam spread.

also,i fail to udnerstand how slavery (taking slaves abroad) can serve as machanism to spread religion when there is no colonization.

lolololol. Brainwashing at its finest.


1) Tell me what Arab muslims were buying from Nigeria then.

2) Tell me which religion has ever spread by trade in the history of humanity. Religion can only gain acceptance in a foriegn land over a local religion through war, domination or government decree.

3) Did the Europeans come with armies in the first place to spread christianity in Nigeria?

LagosShia:
never mind selling.this was the explanation i gave you on why a "slave" or rather a prisoner of war should ransom himself:






to start with bukhari is a Sunni hadith compilation.i could have easily used that and excuse myself and tell you that i do not discuss or defend hadiths found in Sunni compilations.but i did not do that.i tried to analyze them.even if they were found in Shia compilations or books of hadith,each hadith must be examined,verified and graded.we did not do that.but again never mind as there is nothing that cannot be explained or defended from the hadiths you copied in bukahri.

1) When Bukhari is used to praise Muhammed's good deeds, no one says that it Sunni or Shia or unverified. The moment that it shows something negative, it is unverified.


2) Did Muhammad sell slaves or my information is wrong. I want you to give a straight answer. No more perambulating

Logicbwoy:
lolololol. Brainwashing at its finest.

1) Tell me what Arab muslims were buying from Nigeria then.

so all the arab muslims who were engaged in trae of gold and salt in west africa,were trading slaves?

2) Tell me which religion has ever spread by trade in the history of humanity. Religion can only gain acceptance in a foriegn land over a local religion through war, domination or government decree.

3) Did the Europeans come with armies in the first place to spread christianity in Nigeria?

you claimed Islam was spread by slavery.i pointed out that there was never any arab army in west africa and no colonization like the europeans did and spread christianity.

you brought a fake evidence that does not support your claim.

show me where it is stated that Islam in west africa spread through slavery and show me if there was any arab army that ever stepped foot in sub sahara africa.

if you cannot,then keep quiet and stop arguing blindly.

Logicbwoy:
lolololol. Brainwashing at its finest.

1) Tell me what Arab muslims were buying from Nigeria then.

so all the arab muslims who were engaged in trade of gold and salt in west africa,were trading slaves and violating Islamic injunctions?

2) Tell me which religion has ever spread by trade in the history of humanity. Religion can only gain acceptance in a foriegn land over a local religion through war, domination or government decree.

3) Did the Europeans come with armies in the first place to spread christianity in Nigeria?

you claimed Islam was spread by slavery.i pointed out that there was never any arab army in west africa and no colonization like the europeans did and spread christianity.

you brought a fake evidence that does not support your claim.

show me where it is stated that Islam in west africa spread through slavery and show me if there was any arab army that ever stepped foot in sub sahara africa.

if you cannot,then keep quiet and stop arguing blindly.

Logicbwoy:
1) When Bukhari is used to praise Muhammed's good deeds, no one says that it Sunni or Shia or unverified. The moment that it shows something negative, it is unverified.

that is not true.

2) Did Muhammad sell slaves or my information is wrong. I want you to give a straight answer. No more perambulating

Muhammad (sa) never sold any slave.Muhammad (sa) had prisoners of war that you refer to as "slaves" (because that is the language the white man has imparted into your subconcious) from enemy tribes and communities who either have to convert to be set free or ransom themselves by laboring for an appointed time or be sold to or ransomed by another person,if the services of the pow is not needed by muslims.otherwise a pow must eventually be set free.and since the pow comes from an enemy group who waged war on muslims and caused them harm and damage,compensation must be offered to the muslims.

LagosShia:
so all the arab muslims who were engaged in trade of gold and salt in west africa,were trading slaves and violating Islamic injunctions?

1) Arab muslims were not trading in gold in Nigeria.

2) Yes, they were trading slaves. Slavery is not haraam in Islam and has never been. Slavery is only regulated. You will never find a single quote in the Quran that says slavery is forbidden will be punished by God. What is the punishment for slavery according to the Quran?

3) Muslims took about 17 million black slaves. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1523100.stm

LagosShia:
you claimed Islam was spread by slavery.i pointed out that there was never any arab army in west africa and no colonization like the europeans did and spread christianity.

you brought a fake evidence that does not support your claim. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1523100.stm

show me where it is stated that Islam in west africa spread through slavery and show me if there was any arab army that ever stepped foot in sub sahara africa.

if you cannot,then keep quiet and stop arguing blindly.

Fake evidence? lololol. See this brainwashed fellow.


1) What were Arab muslims doing in Nigeria? They were the ones that brought Islam to Nigeria. What were they doing? Slave trade. So how is it that I can not come to a conclusion that Islam came through slavery?


2) Another logical deduction; foreign religions never take over local religions unless there is domination or a government decree. No religion has ever spread through trade, especially over local ones. How is it that Islam did not spread through the domination and slavery of Nigerians in northern Nigeria?

LagosShia:



Muhammad (sa) never sold any slave.Muhammad (sa) had prisoners of war that you refer to as "slaves" (because that is the language the white man has imparted into your subconcious) from enemy tribes and communities who either have to convert to be set free or ransom themselves by laboring for an appointed time or be sold to or ransomed by another person,if the services of the pow is not needed by muslims.otherwise a pow must eventually be set free.and since the pow comes from an enemy group who waged war on muslims and caused them harm and damage,compensation must be offered to the muslims.

Did you make that comment with a straight face? I will leave it to people to see the contradiction in your statement. The beginning says that Muhammad did not sell slaves. The end says that POWs were sold to others. What do you call selling one human being to the other for labour or ownership?

Logicbwoy:

1) Arab muslims were not trading in gold in Nigeria.

they were in west africa and also in salt.the spread of Islam deeper into Nigeria was not done by arabs.it was done by blacks.timbuktu and ancient Ghana and also Kanem Borno were the major centers of trade.then the black converts also spread the religion among themselves.

you probably have the imagination that arabs came all the way to Kaduna and Kogi spreading Islam "through slavery".

i still wonder how someone who comes to buy/raid me and my people as slaves can be so successful in making me believe him or what he is preaching.and there was no arab army even in Kanem borno,timbuktu and ancient ghana.

2) Yes, they were trading slaves. Slavery is not haraam in Islam and has never been. Slavery is only regulated. You will never find a single quote in the Quran that says slavery is forbidden will be punished by God. What is the punishment for slavery according to the Quran?

prisoners of war is regulated.there is nothing like slavery in Islam and it is forbidden in the Quran.your definition and interpretation of slavery as the christian white man practiced it is different from what the Muslim understands about prisoners of war.

Holy Quran 3:79
"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and 'Nabuwah' (prophethood), then he should say to men: Be my slaves rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be sustenance providers (Rabaniyoon) because of your teaching the Book and your studying (it yourselves)."

from the above verse we can only be slaves to Allah (swt).

3) Muslims took about 17 million black slaves. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1523100.stm

and who counted them? and even if they did,we are talking about Islam and Muhammad (sa) here.and i can claim that last year alone Muslims in Nigeria consumed 17 million litrs of alcoholic beverages.so?

Fake evidence? lololol. See this brainwashed fellow.

1) What were Arab muslims doing in Nigeria? They were the ones that brought Islam to Nigeria. What were they doing? Slave trade. So how is it that I can not come to a conclusion that Islam came through slavery?

bring me evidence the arab muslims were in Nigeria and then we will find out what they were doing.you have not even brought evidence to back your claim they were in nigeria.

i keep telling you that the arab muslims in earlier days came for trade and the salt and gold trade was the main attraction.there was no arab army sub sahara africa.

2) Another logical deduction; foreign religions never take over local religions unless there is domination or a government decree. No religion has ever spread through trade, especially over local ones. How is it that Islam did not spread through the domination and slavery of Nigerians in northern Nigeria?

Islam spread in sub sahara africa and south east asia and these places became majority muslim countries with no violence or war.no arab army i repeat.you cannot make false claims you cannot back up.

either provide evidence or silence.you cannot brainwash me by accusing me of being brainwashed when you have no fact to present.

Logicbwoy:

Did you make that comment with a straight face? I will leave it to people to see the contradiction in your statement. The beginning says that Muhammad did not sell slaves. The end says that POWs were sold to others. What do you call selling one human being to the other for labour or ownership?

your definition and interpretation of slavery as the christian white man practiced it is different from what the Muslim understands about prisoners of war.

if i take you as prisoner of war,and i do not have use for your labor to compensate my people for the damage and loss you and your people have caused me,what do i do with you? whether you call it "sell" or "give" or "ransom" or whatever,let me tell you what i would do.i would find someone else who is ready to make use of your labor.i will hand you over to him and ask him to pay me for the labor he is going to benefit from you.

in nigeria today,you have security agencies who offer the services of men as security guards.if you own a company,you pay the agency 25,000 naira for one guard monthly.in the end the agency pays the guard 10,000 naira and keep the remaining.may be you would call that voluntary slavery.the point is,when you wage war against another people to kill and oppress them and you have caused them loss and damage,when they defeat you and take you as prisoner,do not try to find excuses and ways to complain or criticize.

LagosShia:
they were in west africa and also in salt.the spread of Islam deeper into Nigeria was not done by arabs.it was done by blacks.timbuktu and ancient Ghana and also Kanem Borno were the major centers of trade.then the black converts also spread the religion among themselves.

you probably have the imagination that arabs came all the way to Kaduna and Kogi spreading Islam "through slavery".

i still wonder how someone who comes to buy me and my people as slaves can be so successful in making me believe him or what he is preaching.and there was no arab army even in Kanem borno,timbuktu and ancient ghana.


prisoners of war is regulated.there is nothing like slavery in Islam and it is forbidden in the Quran.your definition and interpretation of slavery as the christian white man practiced it is different from what the Muslim understands about prisoners of war.

Holy Quran 3:79
"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and 'Nabuwah' (prophethood), then he should say to men: Be my slaves rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be sustenance providers (Rabaniyoon) because of your teaching the Book and your studying (it yourselves)."

from the above verse we can only be slaves to Allah (swt).


and who counted them? and even if they did,we are talking about Islam and Muhammad (sa) here.and i can claim that last year alone Muslims in Nigeria consumed 17 million litrs of alcoholic beverages.so?


bring me evidence the arab muslims were in Nigeria and then we will find out what they were doing.you have not even brought evidence to back your claim they were in nigeria.

i keep telling you that the arab muslims in earlier days came for trade and the salt and gold trade was the main attraction.there was no arab army sub sahara africa.



Islam spread in sub sahara africa and south east asia and these places became majority muslim countries with no violence or war.no arab army i repeat.you cannot make false claims you cannot back up.

either provide evidence or silence.you cannot brainwash me by accusing me of being brainwashed when you have no fact to present.

I have to rush. So I will quickly debunk you;


1) Kano was one of the slave ports for Arab slave trade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade (go to bottom of page)

Arabs were trading slaves in Nigeria


2)That verse is a remixed versed. It has nothing to do with selling or enslaving people.

Sahih International
It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah ," but [instead, he would say], "Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied."




3) 17 million black slaves were estimated to be taken by muslims. I provided the proof for that. You can keep living in denial.


4) Arabs were in Nigeria taking slaves. They brought islam to Nigeria, I dont know where you got the lie that black muslim converts from other West Africacn places or sub-sahran places brough islam. That is something that can never be proven and is logically impossible when they were enslaved themselves

LagosShia:

your definition and interpretation of slavery as the christian white man practiced it is different from what the Muslim understands about prisoners of war.

if i take you as prisoner of war,and i do not have use for your labor to compensate my people for the damage and loss you and your people have caused me,what do i do with you? whether you call it "sell" or "give" or "ransom" or whatever,let me tell you what i would do.i would find someone else who is ready to make use of your labor.i will hand you over to him and ask him to pay me for the labor he is going to benefit from you.

in nigeria today,you have security agencies who offer the services of men as security guards.if you own a company,you pay the agency 25,000 naira for one guard monthly.in the end the agency pays the guard 10,000 naira and keep the remaining.may be you would call that voluntary slavery.the point is,when you wage war against another people to kill and oppress them and you have caused them loss and damage,when they defeat you and take you as prisoner,do not try to find excuses and ways to complain or criticize.

Were all theconquered lands of muslims causing muslims problems? Were black Africans at war with Arab muslims?


You have got to be delusional to think that all Arab wars were the fault of non-muslims. This is the same kind of victimhood that terrorists use to justify their cause. "The West attacked us" Waaah!

Logicbwoy:



I have to rush. So I will quickly debunk you;


1) Kano was one of the slave ports for Arab slave trade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade (go to bottom of page)

Arabs were trading slaves in Nigeria

i do not want to know whether Kano was a slave port for arabs or whoever.

i want to see how slavery spread Islam in sub sahara africa.can you show me that?

and using a term as "arab muslims" is a big generalization because Islam that is authority for those arab muslims does not necessarily support what each individual does.

2)That verse is a remixed versed. It has nothing to do with selling or enslaving people.

Sahih International
It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah ," but [instead, he would say], "Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied."

whether "servants" is used in the translation or "slave",the word in that verse in arabic is "abeed" and that literally means "slave".the verse makes it clear we are only "abeed" to Allah (swt).

3) 17 million black slaves were estimated to be taken by muslims. I provided the proof for that. You can keep living in denial.

from honest question about Muhammad,to 17 million takes as slaves by muslims.and Islam was spread by going against Islamic injunctions.and even if it is 100 million,i can have a prisoner of war captured to work for me ,if i ransom you and even if i did not capture you.

again,i reject the word "slave".i am not european and not christian.when talking to me,let us talk about pow.

4) Arabs were in Nigeria taking slaves. They brought islam to Nigeria, I dont know where you got the lie that black muslim converts from other West Africacn places or sub-sahran places brough islam. That is something that can never be proven and is logically impossible when they were enslaved themselves

it seems you have never heard of Usman Dan Fodio.

i am still waiting for you to prove to me that Arab Muslims were in kaduna and kogi.

and you have still not explained the logic of how religion can be spread through slavery.as in through colonization and conquest like the europeans did and spread christianity,i can understand.but not when arabs never conquer west africa nor had any military presence.