Logicbwoy:
Were all theconquered lands of muslims causing muslims problems? Were black Africans at war with Arab muslims?

we are talking again of Muhammad (sa) and the battles he fought and the early muslims who were oppressed fought to defend themselves and in the process did win those battles and captured prisoners.

there were instances in later ages that muslims were offended and fought back and there was an instance the muslims stage an offensive war.the only one was the conquest of persia under the second Sunni caliph,Umar.

as for black africans,they were either selling themselves out of their backwardness and stupidity to foreigners to work or they captured themselves in inter-tribal wars and sold their enemies off to labor.those are two ways you can make slaves and prisoners.nonetheless what Islam says should not be mistaken for what anyone did or does.

You have got to be delusional to think that all Arab wars were the fault of non-muslims. This is the same kind of victimhood that terrorists use to justify their cause. "The West attacked us" Waaah!

if it was Muhammad (sa) that attacked afghanistan and took "terrorists" and imprisoned them at guantanamo bay,you hypocrite would shout that Muhammad (sa) took "slaves".in guantanamo bay,the muslim prisoners were tortured.in Islam prisoners of war are to be treated with kindness and not tortured or beaten or harmed in anyway.you either set them free or ransom them.

in the last ten years,millions of muslims have being killed in iraq and afghanistan.the west have fought 6 wars against muslim countries.

in 2001 invasion of afghanistan.

in 2003,invasion of iraq.

in 2006,war on lebanon.

in 2009,war on gaza

in 2011 war on libya

in 2012, war on syria.

and dont forget the american drone attacks killing thousands of innocent civilians in afghanistan,pakistan and yemen.

logicboy,

how did your "honest question" about Prophet Muhammad (s) turn into an argument on arabs? doesn't the Quran say that the people deepest in hypocrisy can be found among arabs? so how do you expect each and everyone of them to be a true Muslim? it is wrong to group people and generalize about them.

Rafidi :
logicboy,

how did your "honest question" about Prophet Muhammad (s) turn into an argument on arabs? doesn't the Quran say that the people deepest in hypocrisy can be found among arabs? so how do you expect each and everyone of them to be a true Muslim? it is wrong to group people and generalize about them.

WTF? Seriously? You cant see how the debate moved from the Quran/hadith to transatlantic slave trade?


I dont see you answering the question. Either shut up or answer the question.

LagosShia:

i do not want to know whether Kano was a slave port for arabs or whoever.

i want to see how slavery spread Islam in sub sahara africa.can you show me that?

and using a term as "arab muslims" is a big generalization because Islam that is authority for those arab muslims does not necessarily support what each individual does.

You do know that it was Arabs that brought islam to Nigeria? That is a fact. The same Arabs that were slave trading. Add 2 + 2.

LagosShia:
whether "servants" is used in the translation or "slave",the word in that verse in arabic is "abeed" and that literally means "slave".the verse makes it clear we are only "abeed" to Allah (swt).

So, you would remix your own Quran just to debate a kaffir? Shameless. The point of that verse is that the word of the Quran is not meant for men to use to dominate other men but for Allah.


The problem is that slavery was not seen as "dominating" but a natural part of life like rich and poor, in the Hadith and Quran.

What is the punishment for slavery in the Quran for slavery if it is a sin or forbidden?

LagosShia:
from honest question about Muhammad,to 17 million takes as slaves by muslims.and Islam was spread by going against Islamic injunctions.and even if it is 100 million,i can have a prisoner of war captured to work for me ,if i ransom you and even if i did not capture you.

again,i reject the word "slave".i am not european and not christian.when talking to me,let us talk about pow.

You can reject the word "slave" all you want. It doesnt change the fact that "what your right hand possesses" is slavery. Slavery is not haraam in the Quran and muslim scholars will tell you that. Why should I take the word of a "Shia promoter" like yourself more seriously than muslim scholars?


Once you sell a human being for a price as property, that is slavery. Do you know that "ransom" in the West is only used to mean "kidnap bounty". Muhammad sold slaves according to the hadith there. Unless you can prove the Hadith false.

LagosShia:
it seems you have never heard of Usman Dan Fodio.

i am still waiting for you to prove to me that Arab Muslims were in kaduna and kogi.

and you have still not explained the logic of how religion can be spread through slavery.as in through colonization and conquest like the europeans did and spread christianity,i can understand.but not when arabs never conquer west africa nor had any military presence.

Usman dan fodio lived long after transatlantic slavery had started infact, 3 centuries or more before.


I showed you a link that explicitly shows that the Arabs got slaves in Africa through conquering.

Slaves were obtained through conquest, tribute from vassal states (in the first such treaty, Nubia was required to provide hundreds of male and female slaves), offspring (children of slaves were also slaves, but since many slaves were castrated this was not as common as it had been in the Roman empire), and purchase. The latter method provided the majority of slaves, and at the borders of the Islamic Empire vast number of new slaves were castrated ready for sale (Islamic law did not allow mutilation of slaves, so it was done before they crossed the border). The majority of these slaves came from Europe and Africa -- there were always enterprising locals ready to kidnap or capture their fellow countrymen.

Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from West Africa, from Chad to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa.

http://africanhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/IslamRoleSlavery01.htm

Kai,LagosShia is very wicked.

see the way he used Logicbwoy and mop the floor with his logic.

LagosShia:

we are talking again of Muhammad (sa) and the battles he fought and the early muslims who were oppressed fought to defend themselves and in the process did win those battles and captured prisoners.

there were instances in later ages that muslims were offended and fought back and there was an instance the muslims stage an offensive war.the only one was the conquest of persia under the second Sunni caliph,Umar.

The captured prisoners were enslaved. A POW remains in prison. A slave gets sold within the community. Big difference.

LagosShia:
[size=14pt]as for black africans,they were either selling themselves out of their backwardness and stupidity to foreigners to work or they captured themselves in inter-tribal wars and sold their enemies off to labor.those are two ways you can make slaves and prisoners.nonetheless what Islam says should not be mistaken for what anyone did or does.[/size]

Shameless. Just so you know, there was a video on youtube about mental slavery and christianity. The video showed african-americans who were poor and semi-literate and also christians. These people were defending christianity while blaming Africans and their paganism for slave trade. They said similar things that you just said in the above quote. I will look for that video

[size=14pt]
There were Jewish-Nazi collaborators. Nobody blames Jews for the Holocaust. But we Africans are ready to blame our forefathers for surrendering people to their conquerers as if it is easy to sell your brother and sister. Take a look at your family and community and have a deep think about what on earth would make you engage in selling them when slavery is not part of your culture. I come from a tribe that slaves were taken from in the past in Nigeria, my tribe never sold slaves as a commodity. POW's from other villages were beheaded- this all changed with the Europeans.[/size]

LagosShia:
if it was Muhammad (sa) that attacked afghanistan and took "terrorists" and imprisoned them at guantanamo bay,you hypocrite would shout that Muhammad (sa) took "slaves".in guantanamo bay,the muslim prisoners were tortured.in Islam prisoners of war are to be treated with kindness and not tortured or beaten or harmed in anyway.you either set them free or ransom them.

in the last ten years,millions of muslims have being killed in iraq and afghanistan.the west have fought 6 wars against muslim countries.

in 2001 invasion of afghanistan.

in 2003,invasion of iraq.

in 2006,war on lebanon.

in 2009,war on gaza

in 2011 war on libya

in 2012, war on syria.

and dont forget the american drone attacks killing thousands of innocent civilians in afghanistan,pakistan and yemen.

I am a Nigerian first and foremost and do not support the Iraqi war or persecution of muslims. I do not also believe that Libya and Syria wars were the fault of the West.

Gaddaffi, ironically, was blaming Al Qeada for the Libya uprising.

Onyocha: Kai,LagosShia is very wicked.

see the way he used Logicbwoy and mop the floor with his logic.

Cheerleading is a habit

Another shameful thing is the fact that one has to face Mecca. Serioulsy? Doesnt that show that it is not meant for Africans that have no Arabic heritage from Mecca?

Logicbwoy: Another shameful thing is the fact that one has to face Mecca. Serioulsy? Doesnt that show that it is not meant for Africans that have no Arabic heritage from Mecca?

so in order for it to be for all humanity,people must face mars as Qiblah?

in the bible,Jews used to face the temple in Jerusalem.if Islam is universal and the Ka'ba is described as the first house of worship for humanity,then why shouldn't us face Makkah? it is for all Muslims.at least it is only in Makkah that all Muslims feel the same.

you're confusing yourself and piling up unrelated issues.take it a step at a time.it would do you good.the way you sound inquisitive,if you are interested in learning little by little instead of arguing all the time,you stand to become a Muslim.and i wont be suprised if you eventually do.

delete

Logicbwoy:

The captured prisoners were enslaved. A POW remains in prison. A slave gets sold within the community. Big difference.

i keep telling you that the definition europeans gave to slavery-making humans a commodity-and the abuse slaves faced,is not the same understanding that prisoners of war experience in Islam.

"slaves" can result from debt,war or, kidnapping others and selling them as commodity and this what europeans excelled in.


when you have a fellow human indebted to you from debt or war,Islam stipulates that he either be freed or ransomed.that is not how slavery you have the idea of from europeans sound.

Shameless. Just so you know, there was a video on youtube about mental slavery and christianity. The video showed african-americans who were poor and semi-literate and also christians. These people were defending christianity while blaming Africans and their paganism for slave trade. They said similar things that you just said in the above quote. I will look for that video

[size=14pt]
There were Jewish-Nazi collaborators. Nobody blames Jews for the Holocaust. But we Africans are ready to blame our forefathers for surrendering people to their conquerers as if it is easy to sell your brother and sister. Take a look at your family and community and have a deep think about what on earth would make you engage in selling them when slavery is not part of your culture. I come from a tribe that slaves were taken from in the past in Nigeria, my tribe never sold slaves as a commodity. POW's from other villages were beheaded- this all changed with the Europeans.[/size]

in Islam,the source of "slaves" was restricted to war in preference to killing whole tribes en masse, as was the tradition at the time.

I am a Nigerian first and foremost and do not support the Iraqi war or persecution of muslims. I do not also believe that Libya and Syria wars were the fault of the West.

Gaddaffi, ironically, was blaming Al Qeada for the Libya uprising.

the west is using alqaeda terrorists in Syria to wage their war because the russian and chinese double vetoe have stopped NATO from using force.

Logicbwoy:

You do know that it was Arabs that brought islam to Nigeria? That is a fact. The same Arabs that were slave trading. Add 2 + 2.

in Islam it is forbidden to kidnap people and enslave them or take free men for forced labor or sex,e.t.c.

generalizing that arab muslims did this or that is exagerration.this is mainly used by europeans and christians to cover up for the trans-atlantic slave trade.

not all arabs followed what Islam says or the limit,that one shoudl either free or ransom pow and that free men should not be kidnapped or enslaved.

you failed to accept that the arabs never had any military presence in west africa.their presence was based on trade,even if some among them took part in the slave trade.

So, you would remix your own Quran just to debate a kaffir? Shameless. The point of that verse is that the word of the Quran is not meant for men to use to dominate other men but for Allah.


The problem is that slavery was not seen as "dominating" but a natural part of life like rich and poor, in the Hadith and Quran.

the verse deals with servitude and not domination.

What is the punishment for slavery in the Quran for slavery if it is a sin or forbidden?

in Saudi Arabia for instance trafficking humans which is a form of slavery and using free men as commodity,if you are found guilty you stand 15 years imprisonment or a fine of one million riyal (266,666 dollar).

and this is what the Prophet (sa) said about enslaving free men:

"There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgement. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money" (al-Bukhari and Ibn Majjah).

Shiekh Taqiuddin al-Nabhani, a shariah judge and founder of Hizb ut-Tahrir movement, gives the following explanation:

"When Islam came, for the situations where people were taken into slavery (e.g. debt), Islam imposed Shari’ah solutions to those situations other than slavery. ... It (Islam) made the existing slave and owner form a business contract, based upon the freedom, not upon slavery ... As for the situation of war, ... it clarified the rule of the captive in that either they are favoured by releasing without any exchange, or they are ransomed for money or exchanged for Muslims or non-Muslim citizens of the Caliphate".

You can reject the word "slave" all you want. It doesnt change the fact that "what your right hand possesses" is slavery. Slavery is not haraam in the Quran and muslim scholars will tell you that. Why should I take the word of a "Shia promoter" like yourself more seriously than muslim scholars?

I am a Muslim and you're not.you're a propagandist and Islam hater.

you can have your interpretation to yourself but that interpretation has no value to any Muslim.not even the value of tissue paper.

Once you sell a human being for a price as property, that is slavery. Do you know that "ransom" in the West is only used to mean "kidnap bounty". Muhammad sold slaves according to the hadith there. Unless you can prove the Hadith false.

ransoming prisoners of war is justifiable and i can go on to defend that.you dont come and wage war against me and my people to oppress and kill us and then when you are defeated you go free.you even said your people dont use to enslave their pow.they behead them.and may be do ritual with their skulls.Islam is not as barbaric as one ritual found in igbo land to behead pow.Islam gives them the chance to free themselves.you dont kill people you capture in war and you have power over.you show them the least possible mercy as fellow humans.

Usman dan fodio lived long after transatlantic slavery had started infact, 3 centuries or more before.

arabs did not take their slaves to america or did they?

my point is africans whether dan fodio or before him,used to preach Islam among themselves.

sufi preachers were very popular in mali and senegal.see proof of that here:
https://www.nairaland.com/981172/salafist-militants-destroying-islams-history

I showed you a link that explicitly shows that the Arabs got slaves in Africa through conquering.


http://africanhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/IslamRoleSlavery01.htm

it still does not tell me that it was slavery that spread Islam.

also,we are talking of sub sahara africa and nigeria and west africa;not nubia,upper sudan or egypt.stop moving your goal post.

13. How does Islam attest slavery?

Some people criticize Islam as to why this divine religion, with all its
distinguished human values, did not abrogate slavery in its entirety
and announce the freedom of all slaves by means of one decisive
and general decree.

It is true that Islam has made numerous recommendations with
respect to slaves, but what is of prime importance is their
unconditional liberty and freedom. Why should a human be owned
by another human and lose his freedom - the greatest divine gift?
In one short sentence it can be said that Islam has chalked out an
accurate schedule for the freedom of slaves such that eventually not
only would all of them gradually become free, but at the same time,
this would take place without causing any adverse reaction within
the society.

Islam’s Strategy for Liberating Slaves

Something that is not usually taken into account is that if an
erroneous system penetrates into a society, it takes time to uproot
it, and any uncalculated step would only yield an opposite result.
This is similar to a person, who is afflicted with a dangerous disease
which has reached a very advanced stage of its existence, or an
addict, who has been addicted to drugs for decades; in such cases, it
is imperative to employ phased and scheduled programs.

Speaking more plainly, if Islam, by means of one general order, had
ordered the people to free all the slaves in one stroke, it was
possible that most of the slaves might have possibly perished since,
at times, they constituted nearly half of the population of the
society. Coupled with this was the fact that, they had no source of
income, no independent work, no dwelling and no means to lead
their lives.

If all the slaves were to have become free on one day and at one
particular hour, a huge unemployed group would have suddenly
manifested itself within the society such that not only would it have
placed itself in difficulty and endangered its own existence, but
would have also thrown the entire discipline and order of the
society into disarray. This is because when they experienced the
pressures of deprivation, they would have had to resort to violence
and aggression, and this would have led to dissension, skirmishes
and bloodshed.

Therefore, it was vital that they became free and got absorbed into
the society, gradually, so that neither did their own lives fall into
peril nor did they threaten the peace and security of the society -
and it was this calculated strategy that Islam pursued.

There are several parts to this strategy and the most important
points from each of them shall be listed here, although briefly, since
a detailed explanation demands that a separate and independent
book is written for the purpose.

The First Part: Eliminating the Sources of Slavery

Throughout the ages, there have been numerous factors and causes
of slavery. Debtors who were unable to pay off their debts, and
prisoners of war, landed up as slaves. Power and strength provided a
license for procuring slaves. Powerful nations would send their
forces armed with various weapons to the backward nations of the
African continent and other such regions, subjugate their
inhabitants into captivity, transferring them in groups, by means of
ships, to the markets of Asian and European countries.

Islam put its foot down upon these means and approved only one
instance for slavery - prisoners of war. In addition, even this was not
obligatory; it granted permission that, in accordance with the general welfare and expediencies they could be set free, either unconditionally or after payment of ransom.

In those days there were no prisons in which the prisoners of war
could be held till their affairs were sorted out and hence, there lay
no alternative except to retain them, by distributing them amongst
the families as slaves.

It is self-evident that when these circumstances change, there exists
no reason for the leader of the Muslims to adhere to the ruling of
slavery in connection with the prisoners of war; rather, he is at
liberty to set them free by way of favour or ransom. In this regard,
Islam has authorized the leader of the Muslims to take into
consideration the general welfare and all-round interests and then
choose the course of action necessary. In this manner, the causes
leading to further slavery were almost completely eliminated.

　
The Second Part: Opening the Door Towards freedom

Islam has chalked out an elaborate program for the freedom of
slaves, and had the Muslims acted upon it, it would not have been
very long before all the slaves had become free and absorbed within
the Islamic society.

The main points of this program:

1. One of the eight instances in which zakat can be expended in
Islam is purchasing slaves and setting them free. In this manner, a
perpetual and continuous budget from the Public Treasury has been
allocated for this purpose and which shall continue till the complete
freedom of all slaves is achieved.

2. In pursuance of the objective, provisions exist in Islam which
permit the slaves to enter into an agreement with their masters and
purchase their freedom by paying them from the wages which they earn (in Islamic jurisprudence, an entire chapter titled Mukatabah, has been devoted to this issue).

3. Freeing slaves is regarded as one of the most important acts of
worship in Islam and the Infallibles always led the way in this
issue, to the extent that in connection with Imam Ali it has
been recorded that:

"He freed a thousand slaves by means of his wages (which he used to
earn)"

4. The Infallibles used to free slaves at the slightest of excuses
so that it serves as an example for the others, to the extent that
when one of the slaves of Imam Baqir performed a good deed,
the Imam said:

"Go, you are now free for I do not approve of a person from the
inmates of Paradise to be my slave (and serve me)."71

It has been narrated in connection with Imam Sajjad that once,
his servant was in the process of pouring water over his head
when the vessel slipped from his hand and injured the Imam .
The Imam looked up at the servant whereupon, the servant
recited:

"…and those who restrain (their) anger."

Hearing this, the Imam said: I have restrained my anger. The
servant recited further"

"…and pardon other people."

The Imam said: May Allah forgive you. The servant continued:

"…and Allah loves the doers of good (to others)"

whereupon the Imam said: ‘Go. For the sake of Allah, you are
(now) free.

5. In some of the traditions it has been stated that the slaves,
after a period of seven years, would become free automatically, as
we read in a tradition that Imam Sadiq said: One, who is a
believer, becomes free after seven years - irrespective of whether
his master approves of it or not. It is not permissible to extract
services from a slave, who is a believer, after seven years.
In this very chapter there is a tradition from the Noble Prophet

wherein he says

"Jibra`il used to make recommendations to me, with respect to the
slaves, so often that I was given to suppose that he would shortly
stipulate a time-period after which they would (automatically)
become free."

6. If a person, who owns a slave in partnership, liberates him in
the ratio of his share in the partnership, he is obliged to purchase
the remaining part of the slave and liberate him fully.

Moreover, if a person who owns a slave fully, frees a portion of the
ownership, this freedom permeates into the other portions too and
the slave becomes completely free, automatically!

7. Whenever one becomes the owner of one’s father, mother,
grand-fathers, sons, paternal and maternal uncles and aunts,
brothers, sisters or nephews, they immediately (and automatically)
become free.

8. If a master fathers a child by way of his slave-girl, it is not
permissible for him to sell her and she must be later set free by
utilizing the son’s share of the inheritance.

This issue became a cause for the freedom of a great number of
slave-girls, since many of the slave-girls were like wives for their
masters and had children from them.

9. In Islam, expiation of many of the sins has been stipulated by
freeing slaves (expiation for unintentional murder, intentional
abandonment of fasts, and for (breaking an) oath are some examples
of this).

10. Some exceptionally harsh punishments have been singled out
(by Islam) whereby if a master were to subject his slave to any of
these, the slave would automatically become free.


Source:

- 180 Questions Vol 1 - Extracted from the writings of Ayatullah Nasir Makarim Shirazi. Compiler: Syed Husain Husaini. Translator: Shahnawaz Mahdavi

http://www.al-islam.org/180_questions_vol1/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxUihG159lk&feature=player_embedded

LagosShia:

so in order for it to be for all humanity,people must face mars as Qiblah?

in the bible,Jews used to face the temple in Jerusalem.if Islam is universal and the Ka'ba is described as the first house of worship for humanity,then why shouldn't us face Makkah? it is for all Muslims.at least it is only in Makkah that all Muslims feel the same.

you're confusing yourself and piling up unrelated issues.take it a step at a time.it would do you good.the way you sound inquisitive,if you are interested in learning little by little instead of arguing all the time,you stand to become a Muslim.and i wont be suprised if you eventually do.

See how a brainwashed person thinks? Instead of seeing the problem of religion, the person must fit the religion to solve the problem.

Why not stop the qibla in total? I hope you realise that the earth is not flat and as a result, millions of muslims are actually looking at space rather than Meccah itself?


In the topic of slavery. Facing meccah is mental slavery, it builds the inferiority complex in Africans, telling them that their land is not good enough just like their non-Arabic language is not good enough to understand the Quran.

Tell me, is God everywhere or only in Meccah? Are you praying to Muhammad's cities or Allah?

LagosShia:
i keep telling you that the definition europeans gave to slavery-making humans a commodity-and the abuse slaves faced,is not the same understanding that prisoners of war experience in Islam.

"slaves" can result from debt,war or, kidnapping others and selling them as commodity and this what europeans excelled in.


when you have a fellow human indebted to you from debt or war,Islam stipulates that he either be freed or ransomed.that is not how slavery you have the idea of from europeans sound.

POW's are not sold within the community as property. That is slavery and according to Bukhari Muhammad did so. I do not understand what you're defending.

LagosShia:
in Islam,the source of "slaves" was restricted to war in preference to killing whole tribes en masse, as was the tradition at the time.

restricted to war to restricted to unbelievers?

LagosShia:
the west is using alqaeda terrorists in Syria to wage their war because the russian and chinese double vetoe have stopped NATO from using force.

Whatever. We will never agree on politics.

LagosShia:
in Islam it is forbidden to kidnap people and enslave them or take free men for forced labor or sex,e.t.c.

generalizing that arab muslims did this or that is exagerration.this is mainly used by europeans and christians to cover up for the trans-atlantic slave trade.

not all arabs followed what Islam says or the limit,that one shoudl either free or ransom pow and that free men should not be kidnapped or enslaved.

you failed to accept that the arabs never had any military presence in west africa.their presence was based on trade,even if some among them took part in the slave trade.


the verse deals with servitude and not domination.



in Saudi Arabia for instance trafficking humans which is a form of slavery and using free men as commodity,if you are found guilty you stand 15 years imprisonment or a fine of one million riyal (266,666 dollar).

and this is what the Prophet (sa) said about enslaving free men:

"There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgement. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money" (al-Bukhari and Ibn Majjah).

Shiekh Taqiuddin al-Nabhani, a shariah judge and founder of Hizb ut-Tahrir movement, gives the following explanation:

"When Islam came, for the situations where people were taken into slavery (e.g. debt), Islam imposed Shari’ah solutions to those situations other than slavery. ... It (Islam) made the existing slave and owner form a business contract, based upon the freedom, not upon slavery ... As for the situation of war, ... it clarified the rule of the captive in that either they are favoured by releasing without any exchange, or they are ransomed for money or exchanged for Muslims or non-Muslim citizens of the Caliphate".



I am a Muslim and you're not.you're a propagandist and Islam hater.

you can have your interpretation to yourself but that interpretation has no value to any Muslim.not even the value of tissue paper.



ransoming prisoners of war is justifiable and i can go on to defend that.you dont come and wage war against me and my people to oppress and kill us and then when you are defeated you go free.you even said your people dont use to enslave their pow.they behead them.and may be do ritual with their skulls.Islam is not as barbaric as one ritual found in igbo land to behead pow.Islam gives them the chance to free themselves.you dont kill people you capture in war and you have power over.you show them the least possible mercy as fellow humans.



arabs did not take their slaves to america or did they?

my point is africans whether dan fodio or before him,used to preach Islam among themselves.

sufi preachers were very popular in mali and senegal.see proof of that here:
https://www.nairaland.com/981172/salafist-militants-destroying-islams-history



it still does not tell me that it was slavery that spread Islam.

also,we are talking of sub sahara africa and nigeria and west africa;not nubia,upper sudan or egypt.stop moving your goal post.

1) Selling a POW within the community is slavery. Muhammad did that according to Bukhari. Ransom means to sell people back to their family/people. Selling a person to your own people (your fellow muslims) is slavery. There is a clear difference between ransom and slavery

2) Arabs brought Islam to West Africa. The Same Arabs that engaged in trade and slavery. I have also showed a link that cleary stated that Arabs got slaves through conquest. Which religion has ever replaced a local religion without slavery or conquest or government edict?

3) This military you are talking about is very funny. Define military? Do you mean Arab men with swords?

4) I have always brought evidence relating to West Africa and so I do not know what you're talking about when you say that I'm shifting the goal posts.

5) Islam was spread with war in the first place by Muhammad. Not peace. If even muhammad couldnt spread islam peacefully, how then did Arabs bring islam to West Africa other than slavery (which was their trade in Nigeria) or conquest.

Mr. you are entitled to your opinion and even your "logic".it is not by force to understand anything.

i am done with this thread.i have given enough info,ideas and argument so that you do not spam the forum in near future and start the same topic again as you are fond of doing.

best regards on your "logic".

LagosShia: Mr. you are entitled to your opinion and even your "logic".it is not by force to understand anything.

i am done with this thread.i have given enough info,ideas and argument so that you do not spam the forum in near future and start the same topic again as you are fond of doing.

best regards on your "logic".

Lol.....it must hurt that I xposed your ignorance on your religion's and country's history.


Can you see your ignorance;

LagosShia:
bring me evidence the arab muslims were in Nigeria and then we will find out what they were doing.you have not even brought evidence to back your claim they were in nigeria.

https://www.nairaland.com/998816/honest-question-muhammad-pbuh#11550633

Logicbwoy:


Lol.....it must hurt that I xposed your ignorance on your religion's and country's history.


Can you see your ignorance;


https://www.nairaland.com/998816/honest-question-muhammad-pbuh#11550633

https://www.nairaland.com/1000311/confessions-moderator.....power-hungry-times


maclatunji

Alhamdulillah Jazakallahu khaite.Allah has given shelter and honour to slaves which was not given at that time.Indeed Allah is wise and all knowing.I am from Bangladesh!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml Alhamdulillah
http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/?muhammad=myth-27-muhammad-taught-that-islam-endorses-concubines Jazakallahu khair