Why Qur'an Alone? - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland
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Baby Born With The Holy Qur'an In A White Garment Church / Proof The Qur'an's Never Been Changed / The Qur'an - Allah's Word Or Muhammad's? (2) (3) (4)
| Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 12:32pm On Jul 25, 2012 |
[flash=200,200] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzCy9tagxjc[/flash] [flash=200,200] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlLgJCDXsMs&feature=relmfu[/flash] www.miracleof19.org www.submission.org www.masjidtucson.org www.quranalone.com |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 10:48am On Aug 02, 2012 |
Any comment or observations from the learned" Mullahs" in the house? Or nobody cared to watch? Hmmm....!! |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by Logicbwoy: 11:53am On Aug 02, 2012 |
lol...if the Quran is complete, then the Quran alone should suffice for muslims. However, it is a shameful thing that Quranists are seen as heretics. This further turns non-muslims who are quite observant away from Islam |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 12:46pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
^^^^ If an atheist like u can spot d parodox in that, i wonder y dey can't? I mean....God reveals a scripture dat requires support from another source  |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by LagosShia: 1:19pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
usisky: ^^^^ If an atheist like u can spot d parodox in that, i wonder y dey can't? I mean....God reveals a scripture dat requires support from another source i am forcing myself not to believe you're an hypocrite or a brainwashed fellow not capable to think.i do not intend to offend you but honesty is the least expected when debating on religion.i asked a question in the other thread you posted about 2 weeks ago.ever since then i have not spotted you in the forum.now you pop here to make a comment on impression.you abandoned your thread apprently because the truth is so obvious to you.please answer my question: LagosShia: https://www.nairaland.com/997077/how-become-muslim-submitter#11561651 |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by maclatunji: 1:20pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
Logicbwoy: lol...if the Quran is complete, then the Quran alone should suffice for muslims. You cannot truly follow the Qur'an without following the Prophet (SAW). It is that simple, you haven't done your assignment and you are here making "expert" analysis of the Qur'an and Islam, silly! What can I say about Usisky? Not much. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 1:27pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
^^^^No offense mr. Lagoshia. When Quoting from a scripture u acknowledge is from God our creator never seem to make any sense to u, Wat am i to do den? |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by LagosShia: 1:29pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
usisky: ^^^^No offense mr. Lagoshia. When Quoting from a scripture u acknowledge is from God our creator never seem to make any sense to u, Wat am i to do den? please,do not insult me because i tried not to. go to the thread you opened and answer my question.we can discuss there if you have an answer to offer or any excuse at all no matter how frail it sounds. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 1:36pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
@Logicboy by d way, i am not a quranist. I am a submitter(muslim in arabic). U may click any of d links in d op to get an idea wat dat means. Pls try to get ur facts correctly & never assume u knw. As regard ur allegations against d quran in d thread:5 ways to debunk d quran miracle or somtn of dat similtude. Pls go thru d web links. All ur querries are clarified der God willing. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by Logicbwoy: 2:34pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
maclatunji: lol.....just putting my two cents  |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by Logicbwoy: 2:36pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
usisky: @Logicboy Okay....I wanted to be a muslim before........but some bigotry I recieved turned me off |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 3:13pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
@Maclatunji these verses are enough as argument for ma case: -6:19 -10:15 -5:48:50 -69:38:40 -last verse of sura 50( sura Qaaf). anywaz, if u weren't insecure about ur version of d religion, u would not b deleting ma threads. D true message of d quran is too powerful for u to stomach enhh! Peace! |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by Sweetnecta: 3:44pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
usisky: how many rakat you have in each of the daily salat using Quran alone without the explanation of Muhammad [sa] in the hadith? Then tell me how to perform Hajj, the id prayers, and what does Allah mean when He says accept what Messenger gives and reject what he prohibits you? When Allah says do not raise your voice over the voice of the messenger, what does that mean? These are just a few items which you need to provide answers to. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 4:00pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
@Sweetnectar -when did sallat begin? -show me from ur hadith how to observe the sallats...all of em! -u are d ones who go to Eid, i don't. I do not perforn extra sallats. -study ur quran u'l find how to observe hajj. Plus no stonning of d pillar symbolizing satan or visitation of a dead prophets tomb. let me show how lost u are so u may not think i do not have ur answers: 1)y do u say ameen wen in sallat? wat does it mean? Wat is its origin? 2)y do u recite suras in ur sallat? Think b4 u attemp to answer. 2)y do utter d prophets name in d house of worship? Remember 72:18, 39:3. wen u are ready to listen to God in d quran, He'll open ur veiled eyes. On a jorney right now. God willing, wen i return i shall resurrect ma past threads dealing wit dis. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 4:07pm On Aug 02, 2012 |
^^^^I wil answer all ur questions d moment i get access to a PC. Most probably tomrw...God willing! |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by ghazzal: 2:04pm On Dec 05, 2012 |
usisky: ^^^^I wil answer all ur questions d moment i get access to a PC. Most probably tomrw...God willing! im wondering if tomorrow has not come o! |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by BetaThings: 10:12am On Dec 07, 2012 |
^^^^^^ usisky: @Sweetnectar usisky:I don't think we should develop the stomach for these strong words and "versioning" |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 10:50am On Dec 09, 2012 |
ghazzal: It will only be a repeat of what we had -HERE. I started that thread exclusive for Mr. sweetnecta. Ask your questions there! Like the title of this thread suggests, it is an argument is support of Quran alone views, if you have any reason to advance a counter argument with regards to the thread's title.....then go on. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by BetaThings: 4:29pm On Dec 09, 2012 |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by tbaba1234: 11:13pm On Dec 09, 2012 |
^ I just have to say this, your kind of Ignorance is painful to watch... Usually i will ignore your post but i will reply just this once and i pray that Allah blesses my words so that maybe you will be guided. You do not have to respond to this post. I will not respond to subsequent post of this nature. I will give you a detailed response and hope that you do some reflection within yourself, show some intellectual humility, maybe you will get some benefit. May Allah guide us both. "If anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong path." [Al-Ahzab, 33:36] Peace Brother. I disagree with your conclusion above. Can you by any means prove why you are inclined to such belief? Imagine you were in Arabia during the revelation of the Quran, remember the Quran was not in written form, the way it is today. It was essentially words recited from the mouth of a man. For the 7th century Arab hearing this man (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) reciting these words, belief in these words automatically meant belief in this man as a messenger. Now that is established. Do you know the kind of regard, Allah holds for His messenger? If you do a proper study of the Quran, It is absolutely incredible, the way Allah talks about his messenger. It is a study in itself. Let me give you a small example, Allah talks about changing the Qibla (roughly translated): Many a time We have seen you [Prophet] turn your face towards Heaven, so We are turning you towards a prayer direction that pleases you........... (Surah 2:144) Allah changed the prayer direction simply because the prophet looked to the sky, He didn't even have to ask for that. And Allah says, he changed it to please him... This is how much Allah regards his messenger. For you to regard him as just a 'mailman' is ridiculous. With all these said, The Quran is littered with Ayat where Allah commands the believers to follow the prophet, the prophet gave instructions to the muslims, many of which have been recorded. "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, " (surah Nur: 54) "And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy" (Surah Aal-Imran: 132) "O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, " (Surah An-Nisa: 59) "And when it is said to them: "Come to what Allah has sent down and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turn away from you with aversion" (Surah An-Nisa: 61) "We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah's Leave, " (Surah An-Nisa: 64) "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam) judge in all disputes between then, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission" (Surah An-Nisa: 65) "And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, such are the successful" (Surah Nur: 52) "The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allah and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say:"We hear and we obey". And such are the successful" (Surah Nur: 51) "O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and render not vain your deeds" (Surah Muhammad: 33) "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, " (Surah At-Taghabun: 12) And how do we fulfil this obligation if not by observing what he said and did so that we may obey and follow these instructions? And are not the ahadith the collection of what the Prophet (SAW) said and did? Thus if it is compulsory for us to obey the Prophet (SAW), it is necessary for us to look at the ahadith so we may know WHAT it is we are supposed to be obeying, n'est-ce pas? "He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah, " (An-Nisa: 80) May Allah make it easy for all of us to truly accept what has been revealed to us and make it easy for us to obey Him and hold on to the sunnah of the Messenger who has come as an example and role-model to be followed. "Certainly, there is an excellent example for you in the Messenger of Allah, for him who looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." (Surah Al-Ahzab: 21) About the sahih hadiths Now you have often made the claim that bukhari collected 600,000 hadiths.. It is so sad that you know nothing about the hadiths and you just make claims out of Ignorance... You seem to be living under the delusion that the 600,000 ahadith of al-Bukhari's collection somehow means 600,000 separate narrations or bodies of text. Your sloppy study of this issue becomes clear when one learns that a hadith is comprised of both a text (matn) and a chain of transmission (isnad). In the science of hadith, the same text with ten chains of transmission is regarded not as one hadith but rather as ten hadiths, despite the fact that the text attached to each chain is the same in every case. Let us see what bukhari said about the hadiths in his book "I have not included in my book al-Jami` but what is authentic, and I left out among the authentic for fear of [excessive] length. 1)Why did the Quran mention all these other scriptures including the Quran by name, yet fail to mention the other source you hint at as been inspired concurrently to Muhammad- not even once by name considering its significance(that without it the Quran cannot be understood)? We do not need other scriptures to interpret the Quran, The Quran confirms the truth of what is the other scriptures... The other revelations were to different nations. Obedience to the messenger is central because he conveys God's instruction to the people. Read Surah baqarah, when musa told his people to sacrifice a cow, these were words from the messenger's mouth to the people and they have to obey. We have the Quran which give us direct instructions to obey the messenger. We have words of the messenger transmitted to us today. The least you can can do is to have an intellectual humility to learn what it says. The sunnah is vital to understanding the Quran because the Quran was conversation between peoples at the time. To understand its full ramifications, you can not divorce it from from the sunnah. What the Messenger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it (59:7). To accept the Quran and reject the hadith makes no sense, they were both received from the same channels. The same people who passed the Quran down to us are those that passed down the hadith. Same people transmitted this as the Word of Allah, that as the word of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi was sallam. Even the verse claiming that Qur'an will be protected came to us through the same people. Through what logic can anyone declare that the channels are reliable for Qur'an and unreliable for Hadith? On the contrary the Quranic promise of protection must apply to Hadith as well for there is no point in protecting the words but not the meanings of the Qur'an. The Quran is passed on to us by Mutawattir narrations. Mutawattir narrations are narrations by so many people that it is just impossible for all of them to get together and plot and lie. However, we have so many Mutawattir hadith that teach things that are not in the Quran. How can you reject their authenticity with no objective evidence? 2)How come of all the prophets, Muhammad was the only prophet who had two sources for the religion- given the fact that the Quran only mentions a single source for all other prophets and messengers? If i am wrong, then correct me. The Quran does not mention other books as a source of guidance for muslims. The Quran is very clear about this, Obey Allah and the messenger. The Quran is the word of Allah, the sunnah represent the sayings from the prophet. Nations were destroyed for disobeying the messenger. That is shown throughout the Quran. The punishments of the Israelite for disobeying Musa is shown in many places in the Quran. So You are WRONG. Is there any way one can confirm your allusion....maybe by giving just one verse from the Quran that directly(unambiguously) mentions this other source? For instance when the Quran says the follow:"......while you have no power over them. Therefore, remind with this Quran, those who reverence My warnings."[50:45] All the ayat already quoted show that we are supposed to follow and obey the prophet. Please stop quoting half ayah without understanding its context. It is disgusting. We know best what the disbelievers say. You [Prophet] are not there to force them, so remind, with this Quran, those who fear My warning. (Surah 50:45) How does the above ayah proof anything you say?? May Allah guide you. First, the above is blatant mistranslation and an invitation to idolatry. No where in the Quran do we find God inviting people to the idolization of His servants(Angels, prophets and messengers). No where in the Quran do you find God asking anybody to commemorate or praise any of His servants; rather, consistently you find the quran exhorting the believers to commemorate/praise God at all times. Here are the problems with this dangerous teaching: Alright, maybe you are the arabic expert... Do you know more arabic than people who have studied the language all of their life?? Your deception is deep.. We pray to Allah to send His peace and blessings to him. When does praying to Allah for someone become shirk? |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by maclatunji: 11:28pm On Dec 09, 2012 |
Does OP perform Salat? Tell us how you perform ablution and the things you say when you perform Salat and the number of rakat you perform a day. What do you think about eating with the left hand? |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by BetaThings: 9:01am On Dec 10, 2012 |
^^^ He has "explained" it in another thread. https://www.nairaland.com/757108/salaat-quran-sweetnecta He wants us to stay away from this thread - it is reserved for Sweetnecta I have been to that thread to ask some questions. I am waiting for his answer I even forgot that verse about the Prophet (PBUH) being a PERFECT example. May be he will explain that only Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) should be obeyed and he will use chapter 60 where Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) is also mentioned as a perfect example Above all, it is curious that the Usisky wants us to listen to him as he "explains or points out" to us how the Qur'an should be used to understand salat. But we can receive no such favours from the Prophet (PBUH) I mean when a 10 yr old boy came to the Prophet (PBUH) to ask for guidance on how to pray, he (PBUH) must just have given the Qur'an to the boy afterall the Prophet (PBUH) was only instructed to deliver the Qur'an. It was even of no use that he (PBUH) knew the Qur'an by heart and understood the message. People could not copy him (PBUH) though he (PBUH) knew how to and actually prayed salat (without errors we should assumed). They just had to do self help with the Qur'an 1 Like |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 5:06pm On Dec 10, 2012 |
Peace Bro'. I must commend you for having taken the time to respond to my post in THE OTHER THREAD! I am not particularly happy that you had to divert it here. I suppose you did not want your "humble" thread to be tainted with some dose of "USISKY VENOM"....Anyways, no big deal. And talking about guiding me, i think i am pretty much content with the guidance endeared to me by GOD in the Qruan....Taht sufficient for me. tbaba1234: You do not have to respond to this post. I will not respond to subsequent post of this nature. Oh no, i have to; it's important that i do you know. You are under no obligation to respond, but i would really be glad if you did. tbaba1234: I will give you a detailed response and hope that you do some reflection within yourself, show some intellectual humility, maybe you will get some benefit. May Allah guide us both. If by "intellectual humility" you mean being predisposed to acceptance of truth, if and when it is confirmed to be TRUTH- then sure; why not!! On the other hand, i will advice you to desist from exuding "intellectual penury" with all the false information about ISLAM you display on this forum. Desist from tainting the image of the prophet and reducing his efforts into farces by preaching from sources that insult him and GOD. tbaba1234: "If anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong path." [Al-Ahzab, 33:36] Very true. In fact, anyone who refuses to obey the message(Quran) preached by the messenger is far astray. God willing, we will confirm those who are guilty of disobeying the message(Quran) conveyed by the Messenger. tbaba1234: Imagine you were in Arabia during the revelation of the Quran, remember the Quran was not in written form, the way it is today. It was essentially words recited from the mouth of a man. For the 7th century Arab hearing this man (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) reciting these words, belief in these words automatically meant belief in this man as a messenger. Mr. tbaba, i do not need such bogus imaginations, what i subscribe to is what my faculty can fathom as being logically true. The underlined part above is fundamentally flawed and an erroneous deduction. Have you ever wondered why the quran often addresses itself as a "BOOK(Kitaab)"? Do you think that God will leave the writing and compilation of the scripture that is to serve as guidance to the entire human race in the hands of error prone humans after the prophets death? These are the lies fabricated in the hadiths books to introduce doubts in the credibility/authenticity of the Quran. The truth is, the quran was written down and arranged in the order we see it today by Muhammad(with the help of others) under God's direction. No human being could've written down and arranged the Quran in the way it is today, but the prophet himself. When the prophet died, the quran was already written(on leaves and parchments) with full instruction as to where every chapter should be placed. The quran bears testimony to this fact. Read the following verses: [25:5] They also said, "Tales from the past that HE WROTE DOWN; they were dictated to him day and night." Muhammad's contemporaries knew that he was a literate man who could read and write; he wrote God's revelations with his own hand. With this verse alone, we observe that Muhammad's detractors saying he was indeed writing down a book. God wouldn't put this in the quran if it isn't exactly what happened. Muhammad was a very Intelligent and Literate person; it is hadith fabrications that insults the prophet Muhammad by making him illiterate. For God sake, Muhammad was a successful merchant; in his time, you must know all the arabic letters because that was what they used for calculations during transactions as there were no numbers then. The arabic letters have numeric values called gematria. How could he have been illiterate? Would God appoint an illiterate person to deliver such a momentous message to the world? I don't think so!! tbaba1234: Do you know the kind of regard, Allah holds for His messenger? If you do a proper study of the Quran, It is absolutely incredible, the way Allah talks about his messenger. It is a study in itself. If you sir did a proper study, you would realize that God asks the believers never to make distinction amongst His messengers. You talk as though Muhammad was the only messenger honored in the quran. In fact, some messengers are honored more than Muhammad in the Quran. If God honors some above others, that is God for you. As far as we are concerned, they are all the same. For instance, God tells us He preferred some messengers above others, and the He gave the example of David([url=http://submission.org/QI#17%3A75]17:75[/url]), does that mean we should idolize David? When God tells us He chose Abraham as a beloved friend([url=http://submission.org/QI#4%3A125]4:125[/url]), does that imply we honor Abraham above others? when God said Moses was the only prophet God spoke to directly([url=http://submission.org/QI#4%3A164]4:164[/url]), is that an invitation to idolization of Moses? As you can see, this is only God's "perspective"; as far as we are concerned, we should never make a distinction among them([url=http://submission.org/QI#2%3A136]2:136[/url], [url=http://submission.org/QI#2%3A285]2:285[/url]). tbaba1234: Let me give you a small example, Allah talks about changing the Qibla (roughly translated): It is really sad and shameful reading such a statement from someone who supposedly understands what "GOD" means. A god who takes decisions without seeking consent from anyone. A god who is omnipotent. A god who is omniscient, and most importantly- a god who possesses the attribute of immutability decides to change the direction of prayer(Qibla) simply "because" He saw His servant was distressed. Your years of follow-follow and reliance on hadith and Tafsir have benumbed your mind, and has really created thick barrier around your mind preventing you from understanding the Quran. First, you quoted the verse out of context- then you go on a build a straw-man case argument from it. what?!! How on earth do you conclude that this verse was referring to Muhammad? Let's read the verse with our GOD given Aqal(Faculty) from verses 142 up to 144. [2:142] The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path." [2:143] We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful. Qiblah Restored to Mecca: [2:144] We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do. How you jumped to verse 144 and concluded it was in reference to Muhammad simply defies logic. Looking at verse 142, it's apparent there was a recognized Qiblah by the people which God decided to change out of His own will. and this is evident by the displeasure shown when the people exclaimed:"why did they change the direction of the Qiblah". Verse 143 tell us God changed this previous direction only to test the willingness of the people to listen and to "Obey the messenger"; it was a test. Nothing in these verses tell us Muhammad did not know of any Qiblah; Instead, the one they(including Muhammad) use to face was changed by God as a test of obedience to the messenger by the believers- this is evident from the sentence "only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels". Verse 144 isn't referring to Muhammad as you erroneously assumed, the verse is talking about the same category of people God termed as "fools" in verse 142. The verse goes on to tell us the Qiblah has been restored to mecca(i.e the sacred majid). This is the kind of confused, mishmash of ideas you get when read these hadiths and supposed tafsirs; they literally take your mind away from the true message in the Quran. tbaba1234: For you to regard him as just a 'mailman' is ridiculous. Another straw-man. Was there a time i ever referred to the messenger as such? I always referred to Muhammad as the messenger. Is it a crime to call him what he was? He was God's messenger(rasool) to the world, his duty was to deliver the message(risala) of the Quran to us- and he did that excellently. But he is dead and gone now, your duty is to listen to and heed the message he left for you in the Quran. If you fail to, you would be disobeying the messenger indirectly, while directly disobeying GOD. tbaba1234: With all these said, The Quran is littered with Ayat where Allah commands the believers to follow the prophet, the prophet gave instructions to the muslims, many of which have been recorded. Mr. tbaba, you are only spewing what you have been brainwashed into believing. If the hadith writers didn't back their claims from the Quran, of course they know it won't carry any weight. Yes we must "Obey GOD and Obey the messenger". But what does this really mean? According to you, God and The messenger are two separate entities. Well, you are wrong. God and the messenger are inseparable. The reason God uses this phrase in the quran is to tell us God and the messenger are one and the same. The messenger speaks on behalf of GOD, since God did not directly convey the message to us. Hence the reason you consistently see the Quran uses "Obey GOD and Obey the Messenger"- this is because , obedience to the messenger is in fact, obedience to God([url=http://submission.org/QI#4%3A80]4:80[/url]). the messenger never speaks out of his own volition. This is why you never find God use the phrase "Obey God and Obey Muhammad". Cos as Muhammad, he was just a human being as everybody else. He himself was required to follow the message. In fact, Muhammad(the man) disobeyed the messenger(God's representative) at some point; the following verse attests to that :"Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and YOU HID inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim.([url=http://submission.org/QI#33%3A37]33:37[/url]) So you see, he equally was required to "Obey the messenger" by obeying the message(Quran) inspired to him by GOD. It all sounds crazy, but you just have go through many verses where Muhammad himself was warned in the strongest of terms not to ever deviate one bit from the message of the Quran; doing so would earn him retribution. This is all in the Quran. tbaba1234: May Allah make it easy for all of us to truly accept what has been revealed to us and make it easy for us to obey Him and hold on to the sunnah of the Messenger who has come as an example and role-model to be followed. "Certainly, there is an excellent example for you in the Messenger of Allah, for him who looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." (Surah Al-Ahzab: 21) God has truly made it easy and simple for us to be guided by the Qruan([url=http://submission.org/QI#20%3A2]20:2[/url]). It is you and others who burden yourselves with several innovations that have nothing to do with GOD and the messenger. I will cite briefly to you how your so-called hadiths/sunnah have really taken you guys far far far away from the Messengers message(Quran). 1)Killing Apostates: According to your sharee'a law of Irtida'ah(Apostacy) derived from your hadith/sunnah, a person who leaves Islam(Murtaad) should be KILLED. And you at one point, without shame, was defending this cruel, inhumane and barbaric practice to the Non-muslims on the main religion section of this forum. If you were "Obeying the Messenger" as you claim, you would realize that the Messenger said to us in the message(quran) that he preached: a)that there's absolute and total freedom of belief. No one should compel anyone to follow his own faith; that no person should be hurt on the account of leaving ,defecting or subscribing to a different belief. But are you "Obeying" the messenger by subscribing to the Irtida'ah(Apostacy) law? [2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient. [4:137] Surely, those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe, then disbelieve, then plunge DEEPER INTO DISBELIEF, GOD will not forgive them, nor will He guide them in any way. According to verse 4:137, a person is totally free to jump in and out of belief as he chooses. God says the judgement belongs Him. But according to your sharee'ah, the judgement belongs to you. At least, a person needs to be constantly "alive" to be able to jump in and out of belief as he chooses. b)that there is total freedom of speech and expression. And no person should be hurt on the account of insulting/mocking GOD or his revelations let alone the prophet([url=http://submission.org/QI#6%3A68]6:68[/url]). 2)ADULTERY: According to your man-made shareeah, married adulterers should be buried and stoned to death, according to the hadith, Muhammad did same. But according to the Teachings of the messenger in the Quran, adultery of any form is only punishable by giving hundred lashes to parties involved([url=http://submission.org/QI#24%3A2]24:2[/url]). Are you truly "Obeying" the Messenger? And according to the Hadiths, a goat ate the verse of stonning. What an Evil Lie!! 3)DIETARY PROHIBITIONS: According to your sunnah/hadith, there are some really long list of dietary prohibitions. But according to the teachings of the messenger in the quran, GOD has specifically forbade only four categories of meat([url=http://submission.org/QI#5%3A3]5:3[/url], [url=http://submission.org/QI#6%3A145]6:145[/url], [url=http://submission.org/QI#16%3A115]16:115[/url]). Anything outside these is lawful; be it dog, horse, frog, Gorilla etcetra. Even Dragon . God rebukes those who fabricate lies and forbid anything in His name([url=http://submission.org/QI#10%3A59]10:59[/url]). Are you really "obeying" the messenger?4)Ablution: The messenger tells us to observe only four steps of ablution(wudu)([url=http://submission.org/QI#5%3A6]5:6[/url]), but according to your sunna/hadith there are many more steps than that. Are you saying the messenger disobeyed God by practicing something different from what he was instructed in the quran?. Remember God warned that if he ever deviated one bit from the message in the Quran, his destiny will be hell: [13:37] We revealed these laws in Arabic, and if you(Muhammad) ever acquiesce to their wishes, after this knowledge has come to you, you will have no ally, nor a protector, against GOD. So tell me this: who are the ones disobeying the Message(Quran) of the Messenger? So you obey the messenger by following what you see in the hadiths, while it is alright to IGNORE what God says in the Quran? I get it, the messengers supposed hadith carries greater weight than God's word in the Quran, huh? This is getting too lengthy, i will stop at these few examples. However, i will appreciate it if you can please point to me just one thing the messenger said in the Quran, that you observe exactly as it is dictated. JUST ONE!! tbaba1234: About the sahih hadiths You really are one hilarious fella. You wrongly posit/assume that i am ignorant regarding the HADITHs. There's nothing new you can tell me about hadiths. I have dealt with them long ago, and now i have thrown them into the bin where they belong. I did not claim bukhary collected over 600,000 ahadiths, this is what is documented in muslim texts. Whether some were duplicates or not, it still is impossible for any human being to have achieved that feat. To sift over these staggering number of hadiths(some times he even went on long journeys to collect a hadith) and finally get it to just about 6000 within the number of years Mr. bukhary lived was impossible. And if there's one hadith that's should be dubbed authentic, it should be the prophets "LAST SERMON". This is supposedly the most witnessed event in the life time of the prophet, yet you find three different versions(SUNNI vesion, SHIA version and a third one unknown to many muslims) of this in the hadith books. Why...which is it? Your sunni one, the Shi'i one or the other one? As for the underlined part in the quote above: Isn't this calamitous? so bukhary left out many "authentic hadiths" for fear of being too lengthy?. In other words bukhaary threw away part of Your religion?. He threw away part of what is supposed to "complement/explain" the quran? This is a disaster....I think it's better for me to stick with the Qruan. Believe me, i am only responding to an empty post. You never even attempted to answer the questions i asked on the other thread. All these are nothing but straw-men you erected. Little wonder 'you diverted the discussion to this thread. I will end it here. We must conclude it there. You initiated a thread for people to come ask about your "Religion"; i have asked questions there, you should answer there as well. And i know i am in no violation of the forum rules. So i hope the MOD don't take sides. tbaba1234: Alright, maybe you are the arabic expert... Do you know more arabic than people who have studied the language all of their life?? Your deception is deep.. I don't have to be an arabic expert to understand the straightforward message in the qruan. I mean... is difficult to understand that you should only do four step ablution([url=http://submission.org/QI#5%3A6]5:6[/url])? Is it difficult to understand that all your salaat should be said in a moderate tone([url=http://submission.org/QI#17%3A110]17:110[/url])? Is it difficult to understand that you should not mention any other name except God's when you are at the prayer house([url=http://submission.org/QI#72%3A18]72:18[/url])? The Jews understood their language well, yet they did not understand the torah. The same Jews invented Mishnah(sayings) and Gemarrah(Deeds) attributed it to Moses, their own version of Hadith and sunnah. Exactly what the Muslims have invented. yet when you read the quran, all you find is Torah and Quran. No mention of Talmud(Mishnah and gemarrah of Mosses) nor Hadith/sunnah of Muhammad. In fact, the Jews invented the Hadith/sunna. Remember abu hurraira: the Jew who narrated 80% of the hadiths? yet the fella only reverted to ISLAM two years before the prophets death!! What you follow as hadith/sunnah of prophet Muhammad are simply Jewish fabrications. I ask again, please SHOW me one commandment in the Quran that You are certain you obey as dictated(marriage, divorce, Inheritance, Salat, Hajj, Saywm, Zakat, Shahadaah...anything). JUST ONE!! [7:89]"We would be blaspheming against GOD if we reverted to your religion after GOD has saved us from it. How could we revert back to it against the will of GOD our Lord? Our Lord's knowledge encompasses all things. We have put our trust in GOD. Our Lord, grant us a decisive victory over our people. You are the best supporter." PEACE!! |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 6:02pm On Dec 10, 2012 |
maclatunji: Does OP perform Salat? Tell us how you perform ablution and the things you say when you perform Salat and the number of rakat you perform a day. I will describe how i observe my salaat to you HERE when i have less commitments to attend to. As for eating with the left hand. Ain't Nothing wrong with it. There shouldn't be any religious relevance given to such things. You only find foolish ideas like these in man-made books called hadith/sunnah- Don't drink while standing, don't eat with left hand, don't sleep on your left side, don't urinate standing, don't urinate facing mecca, enter majid with right foot etcetera etcetra. You never find NONE-SENSE as these in the BOOK OF GOD- Quran. God created the people who are left handed. Why can't they eat with such a hand? What has any of these have to do with worship of GOD ALONE which is what the message of the Quran is? think about it. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 6:12pm On Dec 10, 2012 |
BetaThings: ^^^ Do not despair sir....i will answer the questions you posed on the other thread. As for the bold above, i have clarified that severally in other threads such as THIS. In case it isn't clear enough, i shall re-clarify. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by maclatunji: 6:36pm On Dec 10, 2012 |
usisky: I am free to do anything as long as the Qur'an is silent on it? So, how did the Prophet (SAW) know he was meant to have people called to prayer and the method to use from the Qur'an when there is no text that says: "XYZ"? |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 7:36pm On Dec 10, 2012 |
maclatunji: Sure, why not. Can you mention one thing you believe the Quran should've talked about but failed to? The key point to note by any believer is that the Quran gives the most basic criteria/guidelines for living a Godly life. Often, the quran emphasizes "belief in God and then Righteousness". these two when synergized properly covers pretty much all one can think of. Regarding the issue of call to salaat. Why is it that the only question you guys hammer on is about the salaat? How about the many more commandments dictated in teh Quran but aren't heeded? Mr. MAC, believe me, the HADITHs corrupted the Sallat rather than preserving it. There's not a single hadith that explains Salaat as you know it today. All you have to do is go investigate... |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 8:18pm On Dec 10, 2012 |
maclatunji: ^^^ just remembered some verses to augment my previous response with. here: Do Not Prohibit What God did not specifically make Ulawful: [3:93] All food used to be lawful for the Children of Israel, until Israel imposed certain prohibitions on themselves before the Torah was sent down. Say, "Bring the Torah and read it, if you are truthful." [3:94] Those who fabricate false prohibitions after this, and attribute them to GOD, are truly wicked. This is what the Jews did. The made several dietary prohibition and imposed it on the people without God's approval. Verse 94 informs us that anyone who prohibits what God did not is in fact a wicked soul. However, this system is a recurrent practice. For instance, God in the Quran prohibited only four types of food(5:3,6:145, 16:115-116), but according to hadith- there are hundreds of prohibited food. The same thing the Jewish people did, the muslim also did same in spite of the clear commandment in the quran. Only Four Foods Prohibited: [16:115] He only prohibits for you dead animals, blood, the meat of pigs, and food which is dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. [16:116] You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating: "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed. So you see why it's a gross transgression against God to prohibit what He did not, and even worse, attributing such lies to Him. Even with the clear commandment above, you have numerous prohibitions made in the hadith books all in the name of "Obeying the Messenger". |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by BetaThings: 7:45am On Dec 11, 2012 |
usisky: hahahahaha at that in red I would be satisfied with answers to those issues I raised over there. Maybe more can come after |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by maclatunji: 2:06pm On Dec 11, 2012 |
usisky: You know, your presentations would be funny if they weren't so unfortunate. The Qur'an is explicit that the Prophet's injunctions are to be obeyed. Your arguments fall flat because you are basically saying Islam is: "do as I say and not as I do", a great halmark of hypocrites. |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by ParisLove2(f): 7:49pm On Dec 13, 2012 |
usisky: Yea friend, actually i do. It's more important issue than that of Salat. It's a crime against humanity and mostly women, it's about ràpe. The simple fact that the Hadith is the only source for providing any punishment for this matter.(Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)" Even the Hadith is considered weak and many like lagoshia wouldn't even accept them if they put up a particular argument against Islam. So please clear me on this one, maybe that's why in many islamic countries rape victims often punished by Islamic courts as adulterers. Like you've pointed out above, Allah has punishments for sexuàl sins like adultery and fornication. So my friend why couldn't i even find a single verse in the Quran dealing with this matter? Does Allah believe that ràpe of women is not important to address? *Any Muslim is free to answer as well. Thanks  |
| Re: Why Qur'an Alone? by usisky(m): 10:48pm On Dec 13, 2012 |
Paris-Love: Peace Ma'am/Sir. You have asked an interesting question, and God willing, i will address it. Not immediately though....perhaps tomorrow. As for the highlighted above- You and I know you've never really studied the Quran. But regardless, i will try put together something intelligible that addresses this. But know this; just like i had explained to Mr. MAC in my earlier post- the quran in certain cases provides general rules/guidelines that accommodates various situations- if only we studied it carefully and applied our God given wisdom. PEACE!! |
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