₦airaland Forum

My screen name is Alarinjo not alanrinjo thank you.

Can we get back to the real topic of this thread please? This is not a racism or segregation thread, we are supposed to be talking about the economic value of Chinese investment in Africa not HIV or the lynching of Africans around the world. Thank you.

What's All The Noise About Growing Afro-chinese Economic Relations?

Lately China has been making great economic inroads into Africa. While many Africans see a win-win situation with the Chinese who appear to talk business and DO business, leaving politics alone, others are skeptical. China's "business outside politics policy" is a sharp contrast to the Euro-American model: "let's talk politics, then do business" which has left Africa in the rut for centuries. It is no surprise that many of the nay-sayers are European and American who might very well have reasons to fear China's phenomenal economic expansions. Do you think Africa's shift in focus toward the East is a good thing?

For more on the subject, and views already expressed from around the world, read the BBC piece on the subject: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5094244.stm

So peeps, what do you think?

Pray tell, what do the great presidents of the world have their degrees in? Seriously speaking though, I do not think that ordinarily bagging a degree in political science or economics qualifies a person to walk the corridors of power. There is a difference between book knowledge and practical ingenuity, or if you like, application of theory. Plus, Afeni, I trust that you have too enlightened a mind than to be dismissive about a persons ability just because of their chosen profession. While pretending that you did not make that [shallow] comment about musicians being dumber than average [fyi Fela was more than a musician], let us remember that Ronald Regan was an actor. I personally believe that Fela, while perhaps not the most ideal candidate for president, would have made a much better leader than any of the military idiots we have had so far.

In any case, since Fela could not possibly be president (he is dead, as you know) it would seem that what we should really be talking about are his ideologies and how relevant they are to our progress as a people, nation, continent, etc. Since you just finished a biography on the icon, why dont you kick off the discussion by stating one of his political ideas so that we can evaluate the relevance of such ideas to contemporary Africa.

Afeni, errrm, do you know who Fela was, or what he preached? [raises one eyebrow]

Sorry, Harold French is the author I had in mind. His book "A Continent for the taking: the tragedy and hope of Africa" is supposed to be good. What's the title of Harold Smith's book though? Any idea?

@ Seeker. Did you actually read all the essays on that website? If you did, I hail you! It will probably take days to read through the entire website in order to make meaningful comments. I did read the first one though, and so far it sounds like the story of our lives! Actually I remember quite vividly, many years ago, my father reiterating the exact same story of the carefully engineered fabrication of the British which they called our Independence. Damn right the British were smart! And we? Well, utterly confounded and flabberwoozed is all I can say. Question is, have we woken up from our slumber yet? If the rest of the essays on the Website are as frank and insightful as the first one on Zik, then it is a truly valuable online discovery that you have made Seeker. BTW.any other info on the author Harlod Smith? I do think I remember the name but can't seem to place a finger on it right now. Well, gotta get back to work now. Will return to the essays, and this thread later!

I'm feeling you.

Seeee! Another reason to go back to Naija: cute babes et al

welcome back hotstepper! where you been?

@dizzle: Is that really Genevieve Nnaji? I didnt know she was that cute!

With any luck I might be able to go this December, but if that doesnt work out I think it would be a wise thing to wait until after the up coming elections, say 2007. Too long a wait, I know But, I sense this coming election might get a little dramatic. Last thing I want is to get stranded.

May to July and October 2005. I wish I could go again this summer

At the end of the day though, if we want to be truthful, the blame lies at the doorstep of a certain Jack Gowon

Perhaps, who knows! The issue has a long history of complications that it is difficult to assign blame to a single individual. More interesting details about the history of the Bakassi palaver can be found here: http://www.vanguardngr.com/articles/2002/cover/june06/18062006/f618062006.html

The author of the article takes an interesting position that may not be popular with some of us. I myself have mixed feelings about the whole issue. I can only say that Nigeria should have never agreed to go to the ICJ.

But I don't understand the ICJ. Why shift a people?

The ICJ or any foreign body for that matter does not have the interest of Nigeria or any African country at heart. And why should they? In this dog eat dog world, each man guards his own interests and rightfully so! This was the point I was trying to make in an earlier post where I denounced the idea that some Western country or organization would jump in to mediate any altercation that develops in Africa in order to restore peace or equity. if they jump in at all, it will be to stake their own individualistic interests.

The only reason France helped Cameroon to seek an ICJ ruling over Bakassi, instead of encouraging a plebiscite is so that once Cameroon claims the oil rich region, France can gain unlimited access to the booty! The proof of this is that when the Northern British Cameroons decided to join Nigeria in 1961, a plebiscite was brokered without any qualms. Naturally, since there was no oil there to contend for. The unfortunate thing is that we Africans (our leaders in particular) are more than ready to wager the future of their people at the global market for their own selfish gains. Like I said earlier, the West continues to dictate the tune while we dance to our own peril! This pattern will not change until we begin to look within ourselves and not to the West for the resolution of any internal conflicts we may have. Put differently, if we think that its ok to agitate violence as a means of resolution of internal conflicts with the hope that some peace keeping body will be on hand to help us resolve that violence, THINK AGAIN. History has proven time without number that this is exactly what WILL NOT happen!

I think Soyinka himself has settled the matter for good in his most recent interview with time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901060626-1205325,00.html

He is not interested in becoming a politician!

@ Chxta

Excellent article indeed. I particularly like the last paragragh in which the author emphasizes the idea of Bakassi as a people and not a faceless geographic entity. I believe they and they alone should determine where they want to belong. Scr*w the ICJ; Scr*w France; Scr*w ALL the former colonizers; and Scr*w our double tongued politicians!

Cowardice? Far from it. I want us to prove how brave we are actually. Go to war and annihilate ourselves. It wont be the first time, in fact our history proves that we are good at it. Not at all o! We must fight the good fight. While the rest of the world is developing we must continue to bicker and fight and spill our blood! Perpetuate genocide and maintain our global status as the epitomization of disease, poverty and warfare. This, of course, is the only way to avoid "making us look bad" in the eyes of the world! ITS TIME TO FIGHT!

And where were/are they [the West] when the myriad conflicts across the African continent were brewing? Congo, Somalia, Ruanda, Angola, Dafor, Sierra Leone, Liberia Stoking the flames of destruction around which the African is always more than ready to dance his macabre dance of death! Face it, there is only one reason the "West" is taking such keen interest in the Bakassi issue: OIL! A breakdown in Nigeria/ Cameroun dialogue would not exactly be outside the interest of the West. Bet you, you will see the whole history of colonization repeat itself before your eyes. It will begin with a swift intervention by the US,; an intervention which will excuse the stationing of hundreds of troops in the Bakassi region. These troops will never leave. Already the US Marines have been on constant guard at the Gulf of Benin for a long time, for what? Waiting, waiting, waiting patiently for the right opportunity to invade? As long as we continue to squabble within ourselves as a people, we may yet, in our life time, experience the Colonization of Africa Part 2. This time they will not only draw arbitrary borders etc etc, they will exterminate ya'll for good!

If you have been out of Nigeria for a long time and come back to Nigeria, you would realise that the whole country looks either like a slum or a village. No offence but its the truth.

My exact thoughts when I landed in Naija for the first time after three years of being away. Lagos is ONE BIG SLUM, hmmm, I am not sure the same is true for Abuja.

Bakassi people intend to secede and you call that "romanticized fantasy"?

Biko, cool down and read the stream of posts well before you respond. I never called the plan to secede by Bakassi a romantized fantasy. I would take the time to repeat the posts one after the other to you so you can see that I am not exactly against Bakassi seceeding and so that you can see exactly what my comment was refering to, but I believe you can do that by yourself.

It is amazing that you ask what I am doing about "the reality on hand." I am assuming you didnt understand that the reality I was refering to are the arbitrary borders of African countries which Afeni in the previous posts refered to. If you are asking me what I am doing about that, then that is not a very good question. If you meant to ask what I am doing about progress in Nigeria, I would answer that I am indeed doing what lies between my power. Within my feild of expertise, I have projects at home that I return to as often as I can. It makes me feel good that I am making positive contributions. What are you doing

The likes of Soyinka and Enahoro you cite may be "fighting" for good governance but their entire family is cocooned in the same America you live in. the same freedom fighters have several foreign passports to run away at short notice leaving poor hapless nigerians to face the wrong end of official brutality! If we are not amnesic as a people, should we ever be debating IBB as president in 2007? The same man that ruined our best chance at democracy?
As long as you keep seeing the cup as half full, you would never be interested in actually filling it! Americans don't sit down and view the cup as half full, they go to extra lengths to ensure the cup is ALWAYS full!
We are too lazy to lift a finger, all of us siddon look and "hope" e go beter!

1. During Abacha's regime, Soyinka left Nigeria under very extenuating circumstances: disguised as a hunter and foot trailing to the Benin border. Hardly luxurious. He continues to work IN Nigeria to foster good governance. He has suffered jail term, torture and exile for the Nigerian cause. I repeat, simply because you have carved out your own comfy little corner and chosen to be insulated from the happenings in Naija doesnt mean you should trivialize the work of those who have chosen a different path. It is insulting.

2. Americans go the extra length to see that the cup is ALWAYS full! And what do some Nigerians do? Sit back and say the cup can never be full! Why, because they CAN do so from the comfort of their foreign abodes. Do not be deluded not all Nigerians are suffering from amnesia or laziness as you claim. Let every man speak for himself o!

All very nice and ideal. Sadly, not very likely. Face reality and move on! This is what I would suggest. By the way, dont get the wrong impression that I do not appreciate the argument you make for secession, I do. However, rather than work with a romanticized fantasy, I choose to work with reality. Its time to quit dreaming and start doing!

Sigh! How long are we going to get hung up on this issue of fake borders The sooner we get our sh%^T together and move on the better. In the same Africa, while some are whining about fake borders, other countries which were birthed in the same circumstances are getting their act together fast! What? When will we grow up, get off our whiney butts and GET GOING

Nigerians have any hope in their nation and the few who do are in the corridors of power. Nigerians are too lazy to carry out the kind of public uprising that forced the King of Nepal to revert the nation from a monarchy to a democracy.

Thats a very narrow minded generalization if you ask me. It is also an insult to the efforts of many who have fought and continue to fight for good governance in Nigeria--some even loosing their lives in the process. These are not people in the corridors of power as you claim but activists in touch with the grassroots such as Ken Saro Wiwa etc etc. While many were "checking out" during the military regime, others like Soyinka, Enahoro and co. were going to the ends of the earth to ensure the reinstitution of democracy in Nigeria. These men continue to fight at the forefront of the battle. There are two ways to see a glass of water, half full or half empty. It is therefore no surprise that there are Nigerians on both sides of the divide. Like I said earlier, the only reason why many resign in defeat and see no good coming out of Naija is because they have the option of running away abroad. If those who built the American and European countries to which we run didnt persevere to build their countries, I wonder where we would be running to. If we didnt have anywhere to run to, I wonder what we would do!

Let us not be too gullible in this game which is playing out before our very eyes. I won't be surprised if Nigeria is behind the agitation for Bakassi to secede. I think the Nigerian politicians would rather see an independent Bakassi which they can ultimately re-absorb rather than see it go to Cameroun in which case the chances of getting back Bakassi are terribly slim. Cunny man die, cunny man bury am!

I hear u! When I was in Nigeria last summer, it was drop all the way! Well, except once. My white colleague who visited Naija with me wanted to experience what it was like to jump danfo. After the typical Lagos struggle he ended up on the bus without any bruises, but before I could get on, the bus zoomed off! It took a lot of shouting and chaos to make the bus stop again before I could get on. I guess I had lost my rushing skills! LOL.

Oh please! Some things will just never happen for some people. Extremely thin lips, small tongue and buck teeth=Bad kisser without remedy!

@ Shagari

Sad story! I guess in Nigeria, the most important thing is to get out alive, glad you did! You know what they say about Nigerians being able to smell someone who is visiting from from abroad from a mile, from my experiences, I am inclined to believe it. Has that experience affected you in anyway though in terms of future trips to Naija? Having experienced what you did, do you plan to visit again in the future?

@Gunner

I would say your uncle was quite daring, but again, he probably went home knowing full well that in Naija, anything can happen. The thought of being "deported" to Germany is so hilarious. I would have prolly responded: "with all pleasure!"