₦airaland Forum

pastor Chris remains a man of God. bad things happen to everybody

paxonel:
it may interest you to know that there is difference between THE CHURCH and church.
THE CHURCH is the body of Christ which is the saved people, (everybody in Christianity belong here and are all saved ).
while church is all church building (religion ).
Jesus Christ build THE CHURCH (his people ),while pastors build church (building )
you have to distinguish between these two and separate them, or pastors will use you as their slave to make money for themselves and nothing will happen

you are right,
but for your info, pastors don't use people as slaves, what kind of a Christian are you?
people submit themselves willingly to the work of God

Iceflox:
see you
i am already a made man, do you know how much i realize from a single transaction?

then why did you say rapture should fold this world up as if you are not enjoying your life? are you not confused like that?

johnydon22:
what is wrong with people, cant you people think for yourself and stop letting a book twist your brain. all this bible verses you are quoting are they not written by paul nonsense they will say now that he is under the influence of the holy spirit,
paul was primitive, he knew Nothing of the solar system and the other planets cus if he did he wouldn't have written that shit. if this world gets wiped and destroyed i hope paul will come and take its place in the solar system. people should always strive to know and not believe. think for ursef you have a brain.
ask your selves WAS THE WORDS HE WROTE REALLY THE WORD OF GOD, OR WERE THEY JUST HIS WORDS AND HE ATTRIBUTED IT TO GOD

why you dey beef Paul? wetin Paul do you?.
lol

Iceflox:
revelation 7:17 says, and God shall wipe away all our tears

my friend,go and work or you will only die in poverty

paxonel:
I'm not saying he shouldn't go to church, too much church going is bad, you will be seen as a religious person.
thank God you know that heaven is THE CHURCH , so why the anticipation of rapture?
unfortunately, churches this days have involved in activities that are making them vulnerable to the gate of hell

is it bad to be a religious person? you don't know what you are talking

paxonel:
really?
ok, how about
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
which says that we have been translated into the kingdom already? and not in the future?
can't you see that the very thing you are looking for by running to church ,is right inside you?

guy, leave church out of this. even the kingdom of God you are talking about is the church, Jesus says i will build my church and the gate of hell shall not prevail against it

Iceflox:
you can tell me the kingdom of God is this life that is full of suffering, do people still suffer in heaven. i thought heaven should be a place where everything work out smoothly without any work or any form of stress

so, you don't want to work?... lol

paxonel:
to replenish the earth simply means to build this earth, to develop it.
over the years in the history of life ,mankind has evolved from one stage of development to the other. the era that we are living now is the era of enlightenment, that means, the days of the bible were primitive days.
God who is alive from the beginning has recorded this change and he is happy with it.
it will truly make sense to you when you travel out of the shores of this country to see how white men has developed their world, because they are more enlightened than us

you are right!

paxonel:
the comming of Jesus is different day for different people, Jesus will come to judge us the very day we die

so, what you are saying is that ,live continues, no rapture?

paxonel:
This is the mandate God gave to mankind in the beginning
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and REPLENISH THE EARTH , and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
So., our primary purpose on earth is to replenish this earth and God has not changed his mind about this.
How come churches are now saying that the reason why we are on earth is to win souls to prepare for rapture ?
That when rapture comes, God will take us to heaven and destroy this world?
Why will God create man in the beginning and ask him to replenish this world, only for him to come and destroy what man have put his effort to replenish over the years?
Is God that confused? (I'm speaking like a man )
I know winning soul is part of it, But it is not the main thing.

my guy, God has rejected that mandate of replenishing the earth, it was in the old testament, the new commandment is to win souls for Christ. read Matthew 28:19

paxonel:
may be the government should think of how to get educated parents, parents who are willing to give birth to limited number of children that are within their financial capacity to train,and let go of african tradition which promotes multiple birth that leads to poverty.
that implies that they should invest more on the education sector,update our schools curriculum and make it a quality one, then subsidize it and made tuition fee affordable for the common man
and also power to run our education facilities.
because, the standard of our schools here in Africa is nothing to write home about

it's true, we just hope that someday we will have a better representatives of. the people to rule this nation

paxonel:
Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
this portion of the bible is saying, give to the church, and you will get everything in return, car, money, houses, anything you can ask, as far as your eyes can see or your mind can imagin.
if you want that miracle, leave all that you are doing, go to your church and tell your pastor, i want to drop something

rubbish

paxonel:
you are right,
born again has been used to separate the goats from the sheep, but at what expense?
at the expense of the mental and intellectual development of church members?
may be we should device other means to separate the sheep from the goats or our parents should train their children at home so that we will not end up raising goats in churches, because,
they made us to believe that born again is the same thing as being saved. meanwhile,there was no salvation as at the time Jesus met Nicodemus,
and church members can't develop the intelligence and critical mind to investigate the scripture to see the contradiction behind this , that is not a source of worry to our political and religious leaders.
i think it is high time for the educated extract of the Nigerian population start reading the Bible as though it is a mentally, intellectual developing curriculum against reading it for a mere religious and spiritual gratification or we are seen as a laughing stock and as a people in contradiction to the natural human instinct.
Europeans who brought Christianity to Africa have overcomed this born again problem, they have a better orientation, even western or black American pastors hardly use the phrase born again, find out. i listen to them a lot . certainly because they are not sure of it origin in Christianity.
so we really need a change in Africa

but most of our parents here in Africa are not educated enough to train and bring up their children, so the Nigerian government have leave their children at the mercy of our religious leaders who they see as role models to teach them moral issues from the Bible

paxonel:
everybody in church have potential to make wealth, that means, God is not the cause of anybody's poverty, he gives everybody equal ability and opportunity by making rain and sunlight available.
but capital, no
God didn't give anybody capital, not even dangote.
and God will not give anybody capital in church miraculously.
it's just that, some people were born into wealth while others into poverty, that differences is not Gods doing. it's a product of right and wrong decisions taken by our forefathers years back. not God.
so, we shouldn't go to church to pray for capital.
if you find yourself in a poor family, you need capital from your church to start a business and they give it to you, then you are lucky.
that means, you were not there for prayer in the first place, but your target was that capital.
prayer was a disguise.
but so far, how many churches do that?

I'm getting you,
let's go back to the born again thing, from all indication in the Bible it is certain that born again is not and order in Christianity But within the transition from Judaism to Christianity. But i still think that, over the years, born again has been used to separate the goats from the sheep in Christianity which i think it is justifiable, because, consider the evil that is associated with all religions (Christianity is not exempted ),in order to check evil in the world, the born again movement was postulated in Christianity

paxonel:
lol...
do we go to church to contest for air to breath, or to contest for the sunlight to photosynthesize our crops or rainfall,so that we can have food to eat?
or do we go church to contest for the strength and wisdom to work hard and acquire wealth?
if we truly go to church to contest for these things, of a truth people like aliyu dangote would have been poor dogs today.
because, dangote i know, is a comited Muslim.
he do not go to church in the first place, talkless of contesting

in otherwords, everybody in the church are blessed with the potential to make money like dangote, so long there is air, rain and sunshine?
how about, resources for making wealth such as land or capital (money ) that dangote had?
don't you think we should go to church to pray that God should bless people with money?
there are people in church out there, who have great ideas but lark resources such as money to implement their ideas

paxonel:
it is not bad praying for car, money, protection.
if christians think fellow christians or anybody else are hunting them spiritually, that is a big lie.
they should go to babalawo to practice their African traditional diabolism and leave church alone.
church should be a place for love.
it is true that David was favorite of God,there are other example like Jacob and Esau but that was old testament days.
in Christianity, nobody is favorite of God, God is not bias, God loves everybody equally whether you are black or white, poor or rich, short or tall, beautiful or ugly, intelligent or dull

i think that ,pastor adeboye is saying that some christians are favorite than others based on experience. some church members are rich, others are poor, yet in the same congregation. it shows that God is blessing some and leaving others unblessed, so there is this contest for the few available blessing in the church... lol

paxonel:
it is funny... lol

paxonel:
it is funny... lol

but it is not bad praying for car, money, protection and there were instances in the bible where some people were favorites of God, for instance, David. David was favorite over Saul

paxonel:
now, the implication of born again doctrine is that, by virtue of the fact that it makes a christian think he is righteous than any one else in Christianity, it makes that Christian feel that God loves "Him " specially,that he is the favorite of God more than anyone else in Christianity, even in the same congregation. (i have heard pastor adeboye telling his congregation he is the favorite of God than anyone else in that same congregation, and the church members telling themselves i will be more favoured by God today in this church than anyone else )
a situation where the church member will start telling himself, me, me. .and me alone and my love ones, and my friends.. he becomes selfish and bias in his prayers without thinking about the poor church members around him.
God give me car
God give me money
God kill my enemies
the doctrine makes christians think that God is bias
image a person with this kind of mindset assume a postion of authority by chance, what will he do?
he will siphon all the money for himself alone.
99% of Nigeria christians are like that unconsciously, they don't know.
because, 99% of them still hold the doctrine of born again
.

lol

paxonel:
if we are to adopt the name Christians we should have it at the back of our mind that Christianity didn't start at Antioch.
Antioch didn't save anybody.
Christianity started at the cross long before Antioch

that's true

paxonel:
it is not true that anybody is Christlike. well all have adamic nature in us

so what happen at Antioch where the name Christians were first called? they saw them doing good.

paxonel:
)
you are very free to counter me, but make it objective
you are truly talking mysteries, meanwhile Jesus Christ was not talking mysteries if you follow all the conversation he had with Nicodemus in john 3
Infact, Jesus stated it clearly in
John 3:12 saying If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
meaning, all the things he was telling him was earthly, true life events as it applied at that very moment he was talking. so there was nothing, mysterious there.
or did you see the holy spirit there in the context of that conversation with Nicodemus?
you are right about being Christlike,
to be Christlike simply means to be saved by grace. to accept christ is the same thing as being christlike which is the same thing as to join Christianity because it is in Christianity that our salvation is sure.
to accept Christ is the same thing as saying, i was in islam, then i accepted to be converted into Christianity after hearing the word of God. because Jesus is the founder of Christianity.
nevertheless,to change from old ways or repentance is another thing entirely. but it doesn't assure us salvation

but people are still saying Christianity is to be christlike, like being very good, 100% like Christ, so they are born again?

paxonel:
Let me state a few point about Jesus life on earth before he was crucified.
That Jesus reached out to his disciples one after the other asking them to FOLLOW ME .
take of the word FOLLOW
Matthew 4:20 Says ,And they straightway left their nets, and FOLLOWED him.
That this is how Jesus gathered his disciples,plus the miracles they saw,until a great multitude of disciples followed him.
Matthew 19:2 Says,And great multitudes FOLLOWED him; and he healed them there.
That they abandoned or sell all that they had and give the money to the poor (including their love ones and all their cares ) to embark on a terrible journey(a journey described as the great tribulation in Matthew 24) with Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem where Jesus was to be crucified.
Matthew 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and FOLLOWED thee; what shall we have therefore?
That the sole reason for following Christ was to inherit the kingdom of God(Christianity ) which was to be revealed on earth when Christ is crucified at Jerusalem.
and that, as they journeyed moving from one city to the other towards Jerusalem, he gave his disciples power(to carry out signs and wonders ) to go into the cities to preach and bring more disciples to follow the now multitude of disciples to Jerusalem.
Now, with this basic knowledge, it is pertinent that Jesus himself went into one of those cities to preach,during which he encountered a master in Israel (who must have read the scriptures about the coming Messiah but could not understand ) known as Nicodemus.
After telling him except ye be BORN AGAIN you shall not see the kingdom of God (you shall not become a Christian)
remember, it was a transition from Judaism (the religion of the Jews ) to Christianity ( the Christian faith )
therefore the righteousness of God was revealed from faith to faith at crucifixion.
So, he told Nicodemus, in
John 3:7, Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Meaning, i want to come out plain and tell you what i mean by born again.
He then told him a parable in
John 3:8, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
let me explain this parable.
The wind there represent the multitude or crowd of disciples following Jesus. Nicodemus in his sight and ear, sees and hear about the multitude of disciples following Jesus but could not tell where they are coming from and where they are going to (all though they were going to Jerusalem ).
then Jesus ended by saying, so is every man that is born again.meaning,all these disciples you see following me are the born again.
The bottomline is,for Nicodemus to see the kingdom of God it is expected that he should join the crowd of disciples and FOLLOW Jesus to Jerusalem where the kingdom of God is be revealed at his crucifixion. THEREFORE, BORN AGAIN SIMPLY MEANS THE EVENT OF THE DISCIPLES FOLLOWING JESUS INTO CHRISTIANITY (not yet in Christianity but on their way to Christianity ).so born again were not yet saved because they were still under Judaism the old covenant, even at the following.
Remember, it was a transition from Judaism(the religion of the jews) to christianity (the Christian faith ).therefore the righteousness of God was revealed from faith to faith at crucifixion.
now,not all who followed Jesus and called him lord lord(not everybody among the born again ) ended up seeing the kingdom of God (ended up becoming christians ) but only about 120 of them, check act 1:15. out of the 5000 who eat bread and fishes.
Example of a disciple who was born again who didn't see the kingdom of God was Judas Iscariot, he died on the way, he was unfortunate.
Another example is john the baptist, he also died. Hence, the least person (the greatest sinner ) in Christianity is greater than john the Baptist and all the prophets of old testament (prophets of Judaism ).
You can see that born again was not in Christianity but in Judaism (another religion entirely just like Islam ) and Christianity is far better than born again. Therefore it is far better to be called a Christian than to be called born again.
The painfull thing is that Christians now hijacked the name born again, boasting that they are righteous than any other Christian thereby causing division in the body of Christ.
Please desist from boasting,no man on earth is righteous. We are all justified by faith and not by our dirty works. And that faith is Christianity.
therefore, everybody in Christianity are saved irrespective of who you are or your sin status

this is what we call, rightly dividing the word of truth. it is so scares to hear this

paxonel:
you are correct!
i like seeing people who think fast.
death to sin is like saying, as we die we are telling the sin we commited in that life and it consequences bye bye, to resume a fresh life with all sense of innocency, a new born baby without any sin.
so, after resuming the new life, we are not expected to repeat the same sin that killed us in that former (old ) life, it does not make sense!
that is why Paul used to word God forbid there

you didn't reply my e mail, or you can send me your number. i really want to know where you are located. or what church you attend

paxonel:
yes, Jesus is king forever, his kingdom will never end. we are part of that kingdom for ever and ever, amen!
truly, your grandpa is alive somewhere. he can never been recognized because his body has been changed. old things (old body) have passed away,all things have become new.
this is advantage.
death is a benefit to us.
imagine, your grandpa was indepted to anybody as a result of sin he commited (because everybody commit sin) before he died. now that he is alive again can the person hold him responsible for the dept again?
it's not possible.
so, death is benefit.
that doesn't encourage us to go and sin because,we will surely suffer the consequence in this life if we do. we will just die for nothing!
so sin is totally out of it.
educated minds will understand and avoid sin as much as they can

this whole thing is making sense to me,
Romans 6:2 says God forbid. How shall we, that are DEAD TO SIN , live any longer therein?
the emphasis is on the phrase DEAD TO SIN,
Its like saying bye bye to sin, by death. what do you think?

paxonel:
exactly,
that generation(the generation of those disciples he was addressing ) didn't pass until those things were filled.
you see that?
for instance,
you know, the tribulation was the journey from Galilee to Jerusalem the disciples went through by following Jesus. they abandoned all that they had (peter says we have left all and follow thee) and went through the harsh condition of the wilderness. the bible desribed that event as the worst in the history of mankind Matthew 24:21.
then,immediately after that tribulation matt 24:29 says SHALL THE SUN BE DARKENED,the moon shall not give her light, the stars shall fall from heaven (all these point to one thing that THERE WILL BE DARKNESS )
and truly, immediately after that event of following Jesus to Jerusalem, there was crucifixion (after Pilates judgment ).at the crucifixion, THE SUN BECAME DARKENED (there was darkness )
Luke 23:44 confirmed this.
And it was about the sixth hour(6am early in the mourning ), and there was a DARKNESS over all the earth until the ninth hour.(9am in the morning )
darkness in the mourning? it is never heard
Jesus also prophesy in matthew 24:29 that , Immediately after the tribulation of those days(after the following event of Jesus by the disciples to Jerusalem ) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven (darkness ), AND THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKENED (this signifies EARTHQUAKE )
and truly, there was earthquake
Matthew 27:51.confirmed this.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; AND THE EARTH DID QUAKE , and the rocks rent;
so, you can see that all the prophecies he was telling this disciples, all of them was fulfilled at his crucifixion . that generation didn't pass until it was fulfilled.
those times, they used to tell us that this place of the Bible is talking about the end of the world, that it will happen in the future very soon, that we should repent. they make us to be living in fear of rapture.
lol

i understand the scripture now.
Thanks!
Of a truth, Jesus wasn't just a mere prophet. He is king even at grave. He restored mankind back to eternal life by overcoming death.
I'm happy to know that truth, i once shared it to my late grandpa before he died.
When he finally understood it he was smiling with hope. He was 105 before he died.
Thanks!

paxonel:
he that endureth to the end was not refering to christians,please don't personify it
our desire for immediate miracles have made us personify and claim almost all scriptures, thinking that the more we personify like that the more miracles we will get from the bible or from church or from pastors.
we will one day go and personify and claim evil ignorantly.
he that endureth to the end was referring to his disciples who followed him in those days before the establishment of Christianity (the kingdom of God on earth )
he made that statement (he that endureth to the end ) before he was crucified. (crucifixion was actually the end )
so, all those prophecies in Matthew 24 has been fulfilled since 2000 years ago
all of them
the suffering on the cross was enough great tribulation

that matthew 24 is terribly confusing.after explaining what will happen, he(Jesus) says in matthew 24:34. Verily i say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Does that mean that all those things he told his disciples has been fulfulled already?
The sound of the trumpet in matt 24:31
the nation rising against nation,the rumours of war,abomination of desolation etc?

paxonel:
he that endureth to the end was not refering to christians,please don't personify it
our desire for immediate miracles have made us personify and claim almost all scriptures, thinking that the more we personify like that the more miracles we will get from the bible or from church or from pastors.
we will one day go and personify and claim evil ignorantly.
he that endureth to the end was referring to his disciples who followed him in those days before the establishment of Christianity (the kingdom of God on earth )
he made that statement (he that endureth to the end ) before he was crucified. (crucifixion was actually the end )
so, all those prophecies in Matthew 24 has been fulfilled since 2000 years ago
all of them
the suffering on the cross was enough great tribulation

in that case, there is no point taking religion seriously. But i still think it is good to go to church once a while, atleast to identify with christians

paxonel:
they are one and the same thing.
other names used interchangably for the kingdom of God are
THE CHURCH (not building but all people in christianity world wide )
eternal life,
heaven,
faith,
Christianity.
Christianity is our faith.(representing new testament ), Judaism is another faith (representing old testament )
we are justified into eternal life by our faith Christianity (the Christian faith ) and not Judaism ( the Jewish faith )

hmmm! I'm confused
But mathew 24 proves signs of the end time and rapture.
Matthew 24:13 says but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
That means we are not yet saved until we can endure till the end.
It even says there will be a great tribulation after the rapture, after which the son of man will appear for the final judgement

paxonel:
they are one and the same thing.
other names used interchangably for the kingdom of God are
THE CHURCH (not building but all people in christianity world wide )
eternal life,
heaven,
faith,
Christianity.
Christianity is our faith.(representing new testament ), Judaism is another faith (representing old testament )
we are justified into eternal life by our faith Christianity (the Christian faith ) and not Judaism ( the Jewish faith )

hmmm! I'm confused
But mathew 24 proves signs of the end time and rapture.
Matthew 24:13 says but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
That means we are not yet saved until we can endure till the end.
It even says there will be a great tribulation after the rapture, after which the son of man will appear for the final judgement